I think I'm pretty much withrawn right now. I'm not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing. My awareness of his control, manipulation and selfishness has subdued my love for him. Maybe I'm being selfish by internally refusing to give any more, and maybe this is destructive behavior, but it's just my honest feelings right now.

I don't even want to walk you through the kind of day we have had today. My H locked me off of the computer earlier today after a chain of other controlling events. He pulled out all the manipulative tricks today, but I didn't back down or give in, and he eventually apologized with his words, but his attitude remains much the same.

I just really want to be left alone bc it seems he addresses me with passive/agression or just plain ole aggression in most communications and I just feel heavy and tired with it. The burden of out thinking his manipulation is wearing me down and I just want to sit and rest. I feel very tired.

He did initiate filling out the EN surveys, and he has read up a lot on the website, which is good. I am just so drained by now that while a few days ago this would have felt really encouraging, today it just makes me feel impish. I'm tired of words, I'm tired of him throwing out jargon, lingo, I'm tired of promises. I want to see change. I want to see selfless love. I want to see selflessness period. Maybe I'm drawing a boundary here, and maybe it needs some tweaking because I'm drawing it too hard, but it's where I'm at right now.

LA, I appreciate most of what you have to say.. but I have to disagree with you stating it was fully my choice to leave when I was 9 mos pregnant. On the way back to our place that night he was driving with myself and DD in the car, and in a rage. it was all I could do to get him to be rational in at least his driving if not his mind. I begged him to let me stay, gave him options that we could just sleep in separate parts of the house, to let our emotions have time to calm.. I begged and begged. He gave me an ultimatum, to either leave the house w/o my 1 year old, or he was going to drop me off there and drive back to my MIL's with her in the car while he was enraged and would also undeniably be texting or speaking on his cell. It wasn't much of a choice and I chose to protect my DD in the short term. It was my best choice of two very bad choices.

I am proud of myself for a couple of things... I have made the decision to not allow myself to be isolated in my H's controlling/manipulative behavior. I called my parents and let them know what is going on (they are very pro-marriage and supportive, and do their best to not become biased), and I also called his dad to let him know what was really going on, and we came up with a plan. Our parents are going to split the cost for counseling with us so we can afford the Harleys... hopefully it WILL be worth it!

FireB,

That is GREAT news and it will be the best money you have ever spent. God Bless your parents! Steve is awesome. Bar none, the Harley's are the best.

I wonder after reading more of your story, has your husband seen a medical doctor or therapist for his mood swings. His higher than highs and very low lows?

BTW: I'm proud of you too. You did great, and under such duress.

Jo

I understand, FB, the high fear you had that day...and in retrospect only, know what you could have done so in the future you will know what you can choose to do, if needed.

You agree to leave...he drives back to your home, with your DD...you go in to pack a bag and call the police. That's what you do. Domestic violence is threats of harm, of depriving you of your child, of threatening to leave you by the side of the road.

No begging involved.

Takes a lot to act, I know. Understanding what is domestic violence and what is not...and if it involves drinking and driving, or being high...volatile situation. Or you could have left with DD and then called the police.

BIG HUGE KUDOS on calling the Harleys!!!! Wow...way to go.

When you draw a boundary, you draw it around yourself...what you require of yourself, hold yourself to, act from.

Selfless love isn't what Harley recommends. In fact, sacrifice is what corrodes marriages. As you read more, talk with the Harleys, I think you'll understand better how much resentment is built with choosing those beliefs.

If AW actually loved himself MORE...real love...he would not have cheated, wouldn't do P/A behaviors...no need to control or fear. His learning to speak his feelings instead of acting out on them is key.

I'm sorry you experienced a strife-filled day. Please know recovery is so hard...and unexpectedly so...especially after you've experienced really deep pain over his betrayal.

I have no doubt at all that you both will recover...and discover a way to partner you didn't know existed.

There's a great thread here on MB about having a FWH with passive-aggressive behaviors: FWH is passive-aggressive...anybody else have to deal with this?

Also, click on the link in Mulan's signature about the Boomerang relationship.

Just folks here on MB, working out our lives, together...step by step. I hope this helps.

LA

When you make the appt, let them know you are very tight on money to see if you can get a discount. I hear they occasionally make considerations when they can.

Jo

FB,

I can relate to your situation...you had to do what was best for you at the time. My WH told me to pack my bags/clothes and get out of "his" house when I was almost 7 mos pregnant and I also had our son who was not even 2 at the time. So of course I was going to go! My WH has mood swings...a lot of highs and lows...seems to not be stable...and is also manipulative and very controlling.

I've been reading your posts, you're doing great.

Is that the reason you have not been posting? Are you still around?

Good for you, FB!

I would recommend that you draw up a list of what, specifically, it will take for you to recover. With the understanding that you can add to it as needed.

If you feel you need the support of MB or other online communities, (I certainly did), add that on there.

It is not a good sign that he is trying so hard to keep you away from here, when you have expressed your feelings about it. You can recover from adultery, yes, but it takes a lot and you will want all the support you can get. If he is serious about recovering, that is what he will want, too.

This doesn't mean your sitch is hopeless, not at all, but it does highlight an area that will call for action from him before your marriage can really begin to heal.

Congrats on calling the parents and IL's and getting the counselling taken care of. I really believe you will get more in 1 hr of talking to the Harleys than you would with any number of years of traditional counselling.

FB,

Glad to hear you are going to talk to the Harleys.

Your husband still hasn't really owned the affair - until he does, he cannot free himself to heal from his own behavior, nor can he move forward.

It's hard to do, own a huge thing like that. When he finally does, you will see him truly broken. That's when your recovery will begin for real. I only hope he understands that.

SB

Sorry I haven't posted in a couple of days, I really have been busy trying to get things back in order after Christmas... my kids got more presents than I know what to do with. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I didn't mean to cause any concern!!

Thank you so much for all the support! I truly, truly appreciate it!

Things have been better... My H totally admitted that blocking me from here was wrong, but I'm not sure he understands yet that this will be a very helpful tool, and his friend in recovery. But, he has become really committed to the MB methods... he printed out the EN questionaires, we both filled them out and talked about them, and have both started implementing them ... and he initiated it all.

He even corrected himself when he was talking the other day... we were just talking about something someone did on Christmas Eve and he was saying something like 'Sorry, she made me mad and made me act that way...ummm, well, you know what I mean..' so I said 'you want to rephrase that?' and he said 'Sorry I let myself get upset and chose to act that way.' I think that's some progress/awareness..

I am extremely grateful for the better choices, but I have to be careful.. it's so easy for me to fall back into blind trust, because when I'm shocked out of it and see reality for what it is I can be pretty irrational. I don't want to be in denial.. I don't want to see more improvement than there is, but I also don't want to lose hope or feel negative all the time either. I guess it's a delicate dance having your eyes open.

The whole blind trust thing has been on my mind... I think my own blind trust has led to my own denial and fogginess of accepting reality. I always thought that in marriage you HAD to trust blindly, even when I could sense the lying and mistreatment, that I had to trust anyway without question, and that I didn't have the right to dig down and find out the truth for myself, because that in and of itself, would be a betrayal of trust. That just led to a victim mentality... I wish I had given myself permission to get into my H's messages and emails last fall when it was just an EA, to stand up for myself in a non threatening way... Maybe things would have been different. Do other BS feel this sense of 'if only I had done this or that, maybe this wouldn't have happened...'

I mean, I can see now, how I wasn't fulfilling his EN... and there a lot of things I said and did that were irrational and caused destruction in our relationship. I know that he could have made different choices with his unhappiness... constructive choices that would have helped our M, and he didn't. But I guess I have this lingering, annoying regret. In my head I know I'm not responsible for the A whatsoever. But I am responsible for my half of the state of our M. That's a tough pill to swallow, and it's hard to be able to admit that and not generalize it in with the A. The taunting thoughts ... 'if only'... maybe he wouldn't have... and i wouldn't have to hurt like this...and my kids may have been spared the trauma of us being separated... and the OW wouldn't have had to experience the pain she now carries...

If only... I had done the things I KNEW I should have done, but refused to because i was angry, selfish, BLIND and didn't see the big picture. How do I tell my heart to separate my responsibility for our M from having any responsibility in the A? What is the process for accepting responsibility for our M, but drawing a boundary around his choice to have an A?

A couple more things...

Sorry the title to my thread was misleading... I didn't intend for it to be, I didn't consider how it would be perceived... I can see how my lack of good communication by calling it that caused problems.. so I'm changing it when I figure out how.

Also, Could someone tell me what IMO, DJ, and LB mean?

In My Opinion
Disrespectful Judgement
LoveBuster

Glad to see you, I'll post a more thoughtful response later!

Thanks!

FB,

You still intend to counsel with the Harley's, correct?

Jo

Thank you, FB, for the update...

And big kudos to BOTH of you on rephrasing...where we catch ourselves and rephrase because that teaches our brains, through practice, that this is what we really want...which is to hear clearly, speak what we mean...and it takes time and repetition.

I saw you as allies in the conversation you described...respectful!!

When we practice, we begin to form new habits...considering we're replacing 20-year-old (and in my case, way more) habits, takes time...and I can tell you already see how marvelous it is to have clear communication...seems like you both have been experiencing "being in this together" kind of recovery.

There will be dips and bumps and seemingly changing back...catch yourselves and re-affirm, that's not what you want. My DH and I use the words "old" and "new" to help us distinguish between the two..."I'm feeling old" includes the DJs in my thoughts, seeing him through resentful eyes, and focusing on lack. We look to share what we are doing/thinking differently. We reinforce for the other, "Well, that's new" or different.

More kudos on going for that middle ground...and knowing you have an urge to "fall" back into blind trust and/or denial...reasonable to me. That's where we felt safest as children..."if only you do this, THAT won't happen." Not real, not in our adult experience...understandable, though. Letting each other know when you're in that state of mind is helpful, too. Getting to that middle ground is where you really want to be...and the more you do it, the broader, less delicate, it gets.

I promise.

Same state of mind, btw, for wishing...when you find yourself wishing you had done or not done...you're in that same urge-to-be-safe place. Awareness, not judgment...FB, you now know that your responsibility is to verify the truth...and to know his truth, separately. His choices and actions are the truth...his thoughts, perceptions, etc., are his truth.

His truth changes...the truth doesn't.

Would you consider that if you have blind trust, you aren't responsible for not seeing, doing, in some way? I'm talking about just your half of the marriage. We found that when we stopped taking on each other's half...we also stopped dodging our own. Taking on too much responsibility or too little...really, overstepping our boundaries or running from them...is where our imbalance, our conflict usually came into play.

Beware the "if onlys" and the "what ifs"...for you have right now, today...and you're making different choices. You HAVE your marriage...you have this choice of recovery...and you have a remorseful FWH to recover with.

Fantasy comes in a wide variety...I believe the "if onlys" and the "what ifs" aren't for marital recovery...they are distractions from pain, a false soothing...and sometimes, an unnecessary punishment.

IMO.

Thank you both for being here. For doing the ENQ's...for supporting each other and respecting...and for knowing you're in this together...step by step. Sounds like self-forgiveness is on the menu...

LA

PS...LB is Love Buster...DJ is a love buster known as Disrespectful Judgment...IMO is in my opinion. Thank you for changing the title...and for considering my suggestion...you are great at not taking bashes where none were meant. I can learn from you!

Oh, FB...if you go back to your first post on this thread and change the subject, then the title you see on the forum list will change. Changing it in your most recent post doesn't change the first one.

There's a time limitation...may have passed. Don't know. Just wanted to let you know.

LA

"you are great at not taking bashes where none were meant. I can learn from you!"

Thanks, LA... to that, I must attribute to years of practice from my dad, who was always great at telling me the truth about my actions in a gentle and respectful way... not that I always listened <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />or that he was always right <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I agree that my what ifs/wishing are a fantasy, and false soothing. I didn't think about it that way. great insight! Man, humans are good at coming up with a million ways to avoid the truth, huh? OK, no more soothing my true emotions with lies or fantasies. I have to accept it as it is to be present in order to move forward. I get that.

Still planning on doing the counseling, I'm just waiting to hear back from the Harley's for our appt specifics.

Fireblossom816 - I don't know if your husband is checking MB regularly, but if he's not, perhaps you could mention to him that I left him a post on his thread. I hope he gets the time to read it and may perhaps find some helpful things there.

God bless.

Just an update... we have an appointment with an MB counselor!!! Next week! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

That is awesome! Especially when I read the "WE" in your statement.

God Bless, FB and AW!
Jo

FB,

I agree with your insight...we do come up with a million ways to not face the truth in ourselves. And I promise you, the truth is not that scary. I think the million ways makes it more scary.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

We are creative...our human ability to create is like all the rest of our abilities...to either extreme, turns into a negative for us. In the middle, a strength, something that shines.

That's my opinion.

Seems to me, you're going for the middle ground again. You've got a great mentor in your father...thank you for sharing.

Add my "Yahoo" to your appt next week. Way to go!

LA