Yep, every time, consistently for at least half of our marriage, that I'd voice a concern with either the drinking/partying or its after-effects, just a few minutes in each time we'd be talking about what he's NOT getting in our relationship. Thing is, it was true - he wasn't lying or imagining things.

And yes, just about 2 months ago he was going to go out "for a couple beers" and I had thought he was going to stay home w/me...so I said so, and we argued...then came the, "you know what, I was going to hang around for a while but screw this, now I'm leaving sooner" so he got his things together & proceeded to the bar.

Yet I still really struggle with understanding the detachment & Plan B letter, etc. Because ultimately HE still chose this! So it's like I'm flipping the script? I'M now the one "blame shifting" if you will?

Mel, if you read this, I'm interested in one more thing on the Plan B letter: you said I should wait about 2 weeks. I'm not really sure why, but that came up when I said I need to be focused @work. Anyway, my best guess is he'll return tomorrow once I'm at work, so I should have asked this earlier. Should I leave it here for him tomorrow, assuming he'll get it? Or do you still feel comfortable w/the 2 week timeframe?

Julie
I have been lurking on this site for the last 3 years. Your thread has given me the motivation to post.
I feel your pain and I am truly sorry you and your children are in this situation. Please keep yourself and your children safe.
I am an alcoholic with 21 years of being sober. I Received treatment in 1986. My recovery from alcoholism began in 2003 when I started working the AA program. I was a dry drunk up until that point. (I didn't drink but I carried most of the same LB's-behaviors-whatever you want to call it- that a drinking alcoholic would have.)
I have a wife and a 24 year old son that also are alcoholics. I started my recovery by going to Al-Anon first to "save them" and hopefully our marriage. An alcoholic/Al-Anon member got me back on the "right track" by working both programs.
I am the "stayer" in the marriage much like you. My wife was in and out of our marriage. I came across this site and tried to apply it in desperation to our life. I also am a formerly BS and FWH. The Harleys are right. This MB program only works when the addicted person has RECOVERED from their addictions. The addiction is so strong in itself that the persons entire life is consumed by it.
I read your posts and can identify with you on so many levels because I've been there and done that. I was addicted to the "dysfunction" of my wife and sons drinking. It was such a confusing time. By working my programs (AA/Al-Anon) and creating/enforcing boundries that apply to DRINKING ALCOHOLICS I have settled down. By settling down I was able to clearly see my goals down the road. Also worked with IC for six months. Counselor also was CD intervention specialist. I did not want to be divorced, yet I did not want the crazyness of active alcoholism in my relationship with my wife. I wanted to keep a relationship with my son but not have him drink in our home.
With tough love I was able to get my son into his own apartment where he is free to do as he wants. Yes he still drinks to excess. Yes it still hurts seeing him bent out of shape drunk or hungover but it is not in my home any more. I get to keep my relationship with him without my boundries (no alcohol in the house) being trampled on.
With my wife- The extent of her drinking was hidden from her family and parents. I kept inviting them over when she was passed out or very hungover so they could see for themselves. After seeing how it was (repeatedly) for themselves (OVER A YEAR) we basically performed together an intervention on my wife in Dec 2006. Her parents could not believe how far she had gone with her drinking (amount and frequency). Al-Anon taught me how to live with her happily when she was actively using.
She completed a treatment program and has been sober since. All treatment has done is opened the door to the possibility that our marital problems can be solved. We together have to take the action to solve them. At some point in the near future I hope we can apply the principles from this site. SHE is in no way ready at this time to apply them into her life. She still struggles with staying sober.
Al-Anon has taught me how to deal with this.

By applying the principles from this site I know what a good marriage is and how my behavior affects all the people around me. I have hope for my wife and I. I just do not know when she will be ready to try. For me-to force it upon her in any way at this time would drive her away. I have tried to open the door to any type of MC for us several times over the past year and have been turned down.

You said in a past post your H has been using since he was 14 years old. Since you have an 11 year old child and were married in 99 I would assume your H has been using 12-15 years. In that amount of time and the age he started at, it has become his "medicine" to fix all of lifes problems. It has become his life.
IMHO-This is definately out of bounds for the MB board. Don't get me wrong-the posts to you have been just great over the past few days. The support is unbelievable. It apears some other Al-anon people have also posted.

Alcohol/drug addiction is such a consuming misunderstood LB in itself that a professional CD counselor should be consulted. Plan B'ing with an option for treatment may work but is really risky to your M. It sounds like his family does not know much about his use and without other peoples support will more than likely backfire. By demanding him to give up his medicine-all he has known as a coping mechanism since age 14-Thats risky.
Its clear from your posts you want a better life for your children. It's clear you want a better M. These are great goals.
Can you really slow down and figure out how you will help the situation to end up at the goals?

Sometimes we try so hard to force our own solutions. A lot of the people at the AA/Al-Anon meetings can tell you about there personal experience with that. Quite often they are the divorced ones.
You have the God given power within you to make the desicions of what direction you want to proceed.
Please slow down and take it easy. Sometimes-Don't just do something-Stand there- can apply. You do need to plan for the children and financial expenses in the mean time. Please don't mistake what I am saying as do nothing. Take time to relax and take care of your self also. EVERYTHING does not have to be done or decided today.

The main reason I wanted to post is so that you know there is support and prayers for you,your H and your children.
Chris

Good books to read
Co-Dependant no more-by Melody Beetie
Boundries-When to say yes and when to say no-to take control of your life. Townshed?
AA Big Book-Chapter- To Wives and also The Family Afterwards
ONLINE Al-Anon MEETINGS
Miricles in progress-Type into search engine and it should come up I have seen a meeting schedule B-4
They also have a board where members can post.
I don't know how to put fancy stuff up here or I would.

We recently buried my best friend in high school. He died shortly after turning 40. He never grew up. Had a wife that took care of him. Parents that took care of him.

They "took care" of him by bailing him out of trouble, making excuses, and were willing to accept living with it.

I remember hearing his wife complaining to him about his drinking....while she was headed out the door to get him more.

He died of heart problems brought on by drug and alcohol usage. He continued drinking after heart surgery. Even while the doctor was telling him that it will kill him shortly.

Unfortunately, none of the people "taking care" of him recognized they were preventing some much needed consequences to his choices.

There are 3 paths for a drunk....

1 - Quit drinking.
2 - Die from drinking.
3 - Become institutionalized.

If he is an alcoholic, and I believe he is based on your descriptions, he is still in fairly early stages of it. He will get meaner and more abusive as time passes.

I was lucky. I stayed out drinking on Christmas Eve leaving small children and wife at home and made an a$$ of myself when I got home. The next day, I felt so disgusted with myself I was willing to do anything to stop. There is nothing that would have made me stop, other than my own realization of what I had become.

Your husband has to come to a realization like that before he will consider a permanent solution.

Keep your chin up. You're doing the right thing. At the very least, you're teaching your children that it isn't ok to live like that.

Julie
Just wanted to put in this page. They have an online meetings schedule here.

http://www.12stepforums.net/alanon.html

Chris

Hello. Thanks nesre & WindStopped for your posts. And THANK YOU for the link too. "Attending" online meetings may be the only way I can "get" to some since the kids are home & I'm careful who I'll let watch them. Though none of this is helping with my so-called "internet addiction".

I did OK today. At one point it occurred to me...H & I, in our craziness I'm sure you'll all say (& I'll agree) used to always "one-up" each other. Once I bought a kitten & he went out & bought a gun. When I finally got my horse, he got a motorcycle. When I say I don't like him punching holes in the wall, he'll say I need to clean more often. When I get on his case about drinking every weekend, he'll say there's not enough SF here. And on, and on. I posted the other day that for a reason I cannot explain, I was compelled to clean after he left. In this cleaning frenzy, I took all the things left in his dresser & replaced them with my own, putting his stuff in the back of the closet. Neatly, of course. Not out of spite but moreso convenience...we only have 1 dresser in (formerly) our room & my stuff was always upstairs, so now that he's gone, why wait to get my stuff where it's more accessible? Anyway, I'm willing to bet he was floored when his stuff wasn't exactly where he left it, in his dresser. You know, like ALL those other times he left, and things got smoothed over? Read: I'd make ammends, swear to clean/SF/cook/party more.

It also occurred to me today that about a month ago, we were in the car together & H was carrying on about...something...something that he found interesting, probably his band practice or something. Anyway, I have no idea what he was saying, because all I kept thinking to myself was, "what am I doing here? I don't care about this crap, this guy is an adolescent, his friends are losers, we share none of the same interests. I need to leave him." And that wasn't the first time.

Why did I spend the past month lying to myself? And, was it more than just the past month? Like, 9+/- years?

My love for him is not gone, and although I'm currently experiencing a moment of clarity I'm sure something will make me sob again later. It's the nature of me, it seems.

H called the kids as I was picking them up tonight & as told by DS/8, "if it's OK with you, Dad's going to pick us up tomorrow at 6:30 so that we can spend the night at his new place" EFFING wonderful. But it didn't make me cry. My son misses his dad. DD didn't say she wanted to go or not, she wants to have a friend sleep over tomorrow night.

That's my update for now. I guess I should let them go tomorrow, right? Should I have my Plan B letter ready, and have the kids give it to him? I kinda don't see the point since HE left ME and he's GOT AN APARTMENT. What do you think?

Julie, now would be a perfect time to make up a visitation calendar and ask him if he is agreeable. For example, give him rotating weekends and allow him to pick up the kids from say, 5 to 8pm on Wednesdays. Go online and make out a calendar tonight.

Then call him and tell him you got the message from DS/8 about picking them up tomorrow and want to know what he had in mind. You need to know when he intends on bringing them back. Tell him also that you are working out a visitation schedule and ask if he is agreeable to rotating weekends and every Wednesday? Don't fight, don't demand, just very calmly and pleasantly discuss the details.

Also, is he charging up stuff on any joint credit cards? I would be checking that kind of stuff and cancel any credit cards that you share. If you have some cash reserves, I would pull out at least half so he doesn't plunder it and leave you high and dry.

So, I would get the visitation worked out NOW and then be prepared to hand him your Plan B letter when he brings the kids BACK. And please post it here so we can give you feedback.

I would be sure and note in the letter that you expect him to continue paying the same bills as before.

Does your dad live close by?

Do you have an intermediary lined up?

My dad lives close by. Why?

Will he change your locks for you this weekend?

Mel, I don't want to talk to him! He & I are both very obviously avoiding the actual sound of the others' voices. It creeps me out, because it scares me, because I was doing so well not crying today!

I'll make the calendar. DD/11 doesn't want to go tomorrow. I just got done talking w/her. Said she's disappointed in him, doesn't know what to say to him, would rather spend time w/her friend sleeping over. I support her choice.

In "pleasantly discussing the details" am I killing him with kindness, leaving him to wonder why I'm so nice, happy, strong, confident sounding?

No more joint credit cards exist, just checking. I noticed today he charged lunch, that's the first he's tapped into it. I've got direct deposit & hope to change that over...I guess I better do that tomorrow. Ha ha, cash reserves, what's that? We've got none, unfortunately.

No intermediary lined up. Struggling w/that one. My mom's best but I haven't told her yet.

Ppffftt! My dad's the raging alcoholic, remember? Not that he "rages" anymore, but I'm not reaching out to him. I'm not asking my dad for anything. He complains & will meddle. I'll change 'em myself. I don't think H is done getting stuff out either. It seems he's really cleaning house!

OK maybe tomorrow you'll fill me in. I didn't call H, no plans have been made for any one on any day.