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Ok...

S

I really feel that I should perhaps try the LMBT or the even more severe Matthew 18 method outlined by David Clarke in his book "What to do When he says I don't love you anymore".

H
I sure do not want to appear to be rewarding him for being a jerk.

Any suggestions?
What is LMBT? I have never heard of that.

I know its frustrating I get verbally abused constantly and work myself to death to get some appreciation and still nothing.
Also it seems kindness and sppport he doesn't care about.

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Love Must Be Tough
by Dr. James Dobson


A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb



Neak's Story
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I feel like I have demonstrated my changes to my WH and he won't receive them. He instead continues to use me as his verbal whipping post whenever he feels angry.


Part of PLAN A is disallowing your WH to do this to you. I recommend NOT engaging with him when he does this. There's no use. Like you already know, he's FIGHTING you with words. There's NO positive outcome that can come from these sorts of interactions.

If you WANT to recover your marriage, you are going to have to ACCEPT his MOODINESS. I have a loved one like that (not my H) and have learned to insulate myself from his stuff..to take care of myself.. but I STILL LOVE HIM and learned that's the way he is. This is your OPPORTUNITY to walk away from it. Did you know that he was like this when you married him or did you discover it? 'Cause if he was like this, remember that he was likeable enough for you to fall IN LOVE with him. We have to take THE BITTER with THE SWEET.

Regarding the issue of ENs, what I was asking was, WHAT ENs did HE seek out that she met initially. At THIS POINT, yes, she is meeting his primary ENs. PLAN A is about you demonstrating your CHANGES and your CAPACITY to meet his needs. Given that he is involved in the affair, he is trying he best to close himself off to you. Sadly, she is now the main depositer into his LOVE BANK.

Also, PLAN A is about your GIVER and nothing about your TAKER. It can't be done for long or you LOVE for HIM will begin to diminish. That may be happening with you so PLAN B seems imminent.

Have you read SURVIVING AN AFFAIR and HIS NEEDS HER NEEDS? You might want to read over these books again to get a better understanding. Me, I would read SAA DAILY during my H's affair...

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I don't think I can plan A anymore than I have been without appearing to be fake to him.


I can't say this enough. IT DOES NOT MATTER ABOUT HIM. He is a WAYWARD. He is deceitful. He is a liar. He is an alien. He is nuts. PLAN A IS ALL ABOUT YOU AND YOUR OWN SINCERITY. You should be sincerely making changes that YOU want to make in order to be the best person, wife, mother..that YOU CANor WANT TO BE. The changes that I made in myself over the past few years, starting with D-DAY are a permanent part of me.

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He seems to use my Plan A as a way to fill his need for admiration.


ACTUALLY, this is GOOD. You want to meet any EN that you can during PLAN A. I'm not sure you understand PLAN A and recognize it's value for marital recovery.

THE MORE EFFECTIVE PLAN A is, sometimes THE MORE GROUCHY he will be. HE WANTS THIS TO FAIL. He wants JUSTIFICATION for continuation of his affair.

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I really do feel as if I am rewarding him for his adultery by doing the Plan A.


I think you are incorrect about this. You reward his adultery by NOT doing PLAN A.


I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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SaraLynn-

When does the OW move away? How far away is she going?
Why is she moving away? (Is she maybe trying to force your WH to choose between the her vs you and your children?)

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I am not a Plan A expert in practice yet. However, my "anon" sponsor gave me this visual - Plan A cannot be done in a healthy way without boundaries. Otherwise you become a useless doormat that he cannot have any respect or feelings for.

Any time he begins to speak, imagine an instant two-inch thick plexiglass wall between you. Everything he throws at you cannot reach you. And the mess is all on his side - he gets to clean it up - unless you take the wall down and receive it, (which is terribly unhealthy to do). Then YOU get to clean it up and put your own broken heart back together. And know this - you do it to yourself when you take the boundary down. Your choice. He doesn't get to choose that you have a boundary that his rage, anger, hurt, or otherwise is about him and him only. You will not receive it. He can't make you receive it.

Cloud and Townsend wrote a book called Boundaries - excellent read, btw. Plan A can be free of lovebusters and you still don't have to endure his tirades. This is how it works:

WH - BLAH! Blah blah blah blah blah! You Blah blah blah beep blah!

BS in Plan A with Boundaries: I'm sorry - I need to go do the laundry - scrub the toilet - fix the baby some food - go shopping. (Then LEAVE THE ROOM!!!)

While the temptation is great to say - "Are you showing Mrs. Wayward Partner-in-crime this side of you?", he wouldn't get it. And Plan A can only be excellent if you don't try to educate or have him "get it".

Any time he tries to engage you in an argument translate to Blah Blah Blah - because it's not about you, can't be understood by you, and doesn't have the meaning you think it does.


Cafe Plan B link http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2182650&page=1

The ? that made recovery possible: "Which lovebuster do I do the most that hurts the worst"?

The statement that signaled my personal recovery and the turning point in our marriage recovery: "I don't need to be married that badly!"

If you're interested in saving your relationship, you'll work on it when it's convenient. If you're committed, you'll accept no excuses.
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BTW - I tried this just once and my husband no longer followed me to continue his rants.

He followed me to another room to continue and I turned around and gently reached a hand out to his shoulder, looked him straight in the eye and said,
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Look honey - I'm doing the best I can to not let you deepen the harm you've already done to me - I'm doing my best to be a good wife and support you in being a better man - and this argument is shaming yourself - I can't in good conscience support you in doing that.
Then I left the room that he had followed me to, picked up my car keys and wallet, deliberately left my cell phone on the table, and went for a drive. I came back a couple of hours later, and went to work on what I'd been working on before I left, and he left me alone. then later, came and apologized.


Cafe Plan B link http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2182650&page=1

The ? that made recovery possible: "Which lovebuster do I do the most that hurts the worst"?

The statement that signaled my personal recovery and the turning point in our marriage recovery: "I don't need to be married that badly!"

If you're interested in saving your relationship, you'll work on it when it's convenient. If you're committed, you'll accept no excuses.
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However, I really don't feel that I needed to do all that much changing.


So are you saying that your marital success, if you are to reconcile, will only be about your WH changing into being the person that YOU want him to be?

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I realize that some people may think this seems arrogant for me to say that I didn't need to do a lot of changing or whatever, but I have been with this guy for 14 years and I know how he is with other people aside from me. He is moody, rude and distant unless he likes you at the moment or if you have the power to make his life miserable.


It is hard for me to understand your point of view. Because if you don't like him, why do you want to reconcile with him? It seems that the OW does. That's what I had to come to terms with..accepting my H for who he is..the GREAT and the bad..and I was with him for over 25 years when he began his affair..and I have changed tremendously and so has he...and we couldn't be happier..I'm just so sad that I wasted all those years, being disrespectful and self-righteous, trying to change him into being who I wanted him to be...so I guess I'm coming from my perspective...which does seem alot different than yours...

It was Steve Harley that called me on this, basically saying, "Do you want to be RIGHT or do you want to be MARRIED?"

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But I don't see him working to change that with me at this stage in the game.


We have been married for 31 years. As indicated above, both of us have definitely changed but I had to be the LEADER and be willing to change first..because by the time I realized what was happening, he was in the MIDST of an ADDICTION to a woman who did SEEM to ACCEPT him..it was a show, a farce on her part but it sure FELT GREAT to HIM...

I just don't understand why you want to reconcile. You don't seem to LIKE your husband.


I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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I really suggest you think about the part that YOU played in your marital problems because that is all that YOU can control.

Your situation with the OW sounds typical.

The OW in my situation played those SAME GAMES and my H did eventually move in with her, trying to make it work with his "true love"..that's what actually ENDED the affair because he got to see the way she REALLY is/was...


I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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Me- 33
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SaraLynn - I can relate to a lot of what you're saying, I have often pondered the same things you're asking yourself or that mimi is asking you.. did you read Sadmo's recent post about self-recovery? That is also good food for thought.

In my case, I knew something was wrong with H when he moved out for a seperation, but really could not believe it was an A. So I did basically do a PlanA during that time, but didn't know that he was having an A which definitely would make it harder. ALL that to say, now, looking back, I don't regret any of the work I put into plan A because of the good it did for me, but also just knowing that I don't have any regrets (about that season anyway). I don't look back now and wonder IF I would have just tried or done such and such, could it have made a difference. Even if marital recovery isn't possible, or I decide it's not worth it, I do not regret the Plan A efforts I made. (hope this is coming across the way I intend, just my two cents to think about..)

It's hard with kids involved too, I'm sure that's part of what makes it more complicated (I know it does for me).

I will pray that God just gives you a real sense of what to do next, and the strength to do whatever that is.


BW(me) + XWH - 36
3DS - now 10, 8, 6
Married 10 years
D-Day 10-5-07, lots of Plan B, etc.
Plan D --finalized 2-09

Remarried to wonderful man 1-1-11!
now 3 NEW bonuschildren: DD 4, DS 8&9

... ... ...
GOD IS GOOD.
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To me, marriage is about accepting each other, but not about letting one person treat you poorly because they are grouchy.


Have you read the HARLEY books. This is not their viewpoint. Ask yourself, do you want to stick with YOUR VIEWPOINT or do you want to try an approach that has been effective in helping couples RECOVER their marriages. The Marriagebuilders' POV is that couples who are IN LOVE with each other DEPOSIT LOVE UNITS by meeting each others' PRIMARY EMOTIONAL NEEDS. It is not about UNCONDITIONAL ACCEPTANCE. It is about DOING what makes each other HAPPY.

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If he had issues with me, I would expect as a mature adult, he would come to me with those issues and discuss them instead of making an off hand remark due to frustration.


Yep..maybe he's NOT an mature adult. We all have our faults. Surely,it is clear that any WS has chosen a POOR..and ..IMMORAL solution to the marital problems. On another thread, we are talking about how it's the EASY way out.

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I do like my WH when he is being nice and in a good mood.


Do you see what you are saying here? You only like your H when he is the way that you want him to be. That is what we MBer's call a DISRESPECTFUL JUDGEMENT. Who's gonna always be in a good mood? There's parts about you that he may not like and he may not like this about himself. But HE IS WHO HE IS...

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I have hope that God could change him into the kind of man that I've seen him be over the years...but right now, that man is only present with the OW.


You have no idea how he is with the OW. He may be MOODY with her and it's OK with her.

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I told him that I believed that every relationship he has will fail because he is no different in that respect. He did not reply and simply looked down at the ground because he knows that's true about himself.


OUCH..not very LOVING, Sara..he probably held his head down cause this really hurt and it makes him feel UNLOVED by you...

One of the most important reasons that I feel that my H ended his affair was because during PLAN A, I made it VERY CLEAR that I loved him. The OW tried to convince him that she was the only one that loved him and I stepped up to the plate and told him that wasn't so...

HE WANTS TO FEEL LOVED BY YOU..THE MAN WHO HE IS WANTS TO BE LOVED BY YOU..not the man who you want him to be..the MAN WHO HE IS..with all of his warts and wrinkles..

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I do accept my hardened heart toward him was a contributing factor to us not being close, but if the reason behind it does not change...I don't see how the marriage could survive, let alone improve.


I say this cause I really care about your marriage..and I really hate affairs and divorce...not to hurt you. I don't want to hurt you, Sarah.

I encourage you to work on YOURSELF..your HARDENED HEART..you can only change YOURSELF..and NOT HIM...

Work on your hardened heart to give your marriage a chance for recovery.


I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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CORRECTION:

It wasn't important what I TOLD my H..what was important was what I EVIDENCED and DEMONSTRATED...

I EVIDENCED and DEMONSTRATED my LOVE for him....

He loved it that I FOUGHT for him...that's why I like to use that WAR ANALOGY...


I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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It seems that when I reinforce my boundaries, my WH takes that as a punishment.

Saralynn,
Your WH sounds so much like mine I'm wondering if they were separated at birth.

He is doing the above ^^ because he is immature. He hasn't learned to take responsibility for both his actions or the consequences of his bad choices. And then he probably blames you for what could easily be a normal response to an aggravated attack. Not stating that any LB is good, but boundaries ARE!

You sound like you are a well-adjusted person who is aware of any shortcomings you may have and would appreciate and learn from a discussion on things that are fixable within your marriage...a willingness on your part to make it better. That is great! But it's like beating your head against the wall when your partner won't do the same.

I do feel that in many situations, Plan A is like an appeasement of the affair.
It seems to say - disrespect me all you want, I'll still be here pining for you. But of course I am at a totally different stage and in my case Plan B is working very well for me and my children.

I know what you mean when you say that you have done things right by your marriage and you still feel that he is the one that needs to do most of the changing. I have layed awake at night thinking that very same thing over and over. Of course my WH has a temper and that alone would have solved 70% of our issues if he'd have chilled out.

As one poster has in her tagline "you can't fix stupid"! lol, I laugh just reading that again.

So what do you think your next course of action will be?


"Love the life you live, live the life you love." Bob Marley BS(me)37 WH(37) DS1 Dau from prev M 16 Married 4/06 D-day 6/06, again 11/06, again 4/07 Plan A'd all over the place, then Injunction 10/07, WH moved in with OW WH has own place 12/07 1/08 Plan B
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Me- 33
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Divorce Final 8/27/08
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An interminable Plan A rewards adultery.

A short but good Plan A, followed by a decisive, pitch-black Plan B destroys adultery.

~and leaves the marriage poised in the best possible position to recover~


A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb



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Me- 33
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DS- 5
DD- 3
D-Day 6/29/07
Divorce Final 8/27/08
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My vote is for Divorce Reality. His whines about manipulation should not stop you from doing what is right for you. He will do anything he can, and say anything he can, to maintain some sort of control over you.

Of course the finaly decision is up to you, but I can only recommend a full-on Plan B. Not because I was brainwashed, but because I have seen it work powerfully again and again and again.


A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb



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SaraLynn,
Back in Sept you said you were going to Plan B no matter what...and do the darkest Plan B ever seen.

I'm curious as to what changed?

Your WH's words about you using the kids is NOT true. Many Waywards will say anything to emotionally wreck the BS and turn things around on them. HE put you in the position to do whatever is necessary to protect yourself and your children.

Also, just how grouchy is he? I have firsthand experience with a "grouch" myself...my WH used to go off on tirades that I'd have to listen to forever, follow me to different rooms, yada yada. It was so exhausting.
Now that he is gone and I'm in plan B, my LIFE is so much more peaceful. Sure I still have sad days, but nothing beats the serenity of my home.

He can still see both of your kids at his place. Do you have an intermediary?

~Free


"Love the life you live, live the life you love." Bob Marley BS(me)37 WH(37) DS1 Dau from prev M 16 Married 4/06 D-day 6/06, again 11/06, again 4/07 Plan A'd all over the place, then Injunction 10/07, WH moved in with OW WH has own place 12/07 1/08 Plan B
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So that's my dilemma and why I was considering doing either a 180 degree approach or something similar instead of a dark plan B.


I'm all in for MBers' because of the MIRACLE of OUR MARITAL RECOVERY. I TRIED to follow THE PLANS as CLOSELY as possible..as outlined by the HARLEYs...Steve Harley specifically directed me AGAINST using the 180 plan..


I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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