It has been 3 years since I confessed to my H about a night of a lot of drinking and inappropriate behavior which almost ended in a ONS but thankfully I stopped it. We have only talked about it 5 or 6 times because he doesn't want to but I went to IC for 3 years, read books, changed my behavior, etc.

Saturday night we were making dinner and out of the blue he made a "slam" comment to me referring to that night. I was completely shocked and hurt, but did say, "I will be more than happy to talk to you about that night if you would like, but making offhand comments like that feel like a slap to me and don't really help us." He just shrugged it off and we went back to making dinner.

I started to trigger, panic, have a pityparty and excused myself before I broke down crying in front of him. I went to our bathroom and cried. I still carry around so much shame and guilt and disappointment in myself.

So I go back to the kitchen and he tells me he is sorry for saying what he did that he could see how it was a cheap shot. He then asks if I've been crying. I start crying again and I told him yes, but not because of what he said, but because I hate what I did to him and to us, what I brought into our M. That it still eats away at me. I think about it everyday. And I don't know how to let it go...I don't know how to forgive myself. He just stands there and doesn't do or say anything.

I don't know what to expect of him. I so wanted for him to hug me and tell me he has forgiven me. Was it wrong of me to want him to comfort me? Am I expecting too much from him wanting that? Should I have told him what I wanted? Did I say the right thing? Do the right thing?

I think that the Policy of Radical honesty would dictate that you come right out and ask for what you want. I am the queen of not being able to ask for what I want in normal sitch's with my H, so I can only imagine how hard this would be for you, but can you at least try to talk to him about what you need from him?

I think that three years is a long time for you to go without fogiveing yourself. And look at the steps you have taken so it wouldn't happen again. That is a really good thing.

hmmmmm....he said he knew it was a cheap shot.
He made a specific comment about 'that" night.....which leads me to beleive something about that night is knawing at him, even though he tries not to think or talk about it.

Would you mind sharing what he said?

nia,

A Victoria Secret coupon had come in the mail. I commented about the girl on the coupon saying "I wish I was confident enough to wear something like that...I just end up feeling awkard and stupid." And he said "You didn't seem to have that problem that time at ******."

Just the way he said it and the fact that it was so out of the blue...it really shocked me.

For about a year, year and a half after I confessed, he would make these out of the blue cheap shot comments. I just took it because I knew he was hurt and angry. But I also would get mad, never expressed, because he told me not bring it up anymore but then he could by taking these shots at me. You know, make the comment and then move on like nothing was ever said. What he said the other night wasn't anywhere near as a "cheap shot" as they used to be, but still...it makes me believe we will never really move passed what I did. It will always be right there hanging over my head.

A Victoria Secret coupon had come in the mail. I commented about the girl on the coupon saying "I wish I was confident enough to wear something like that...I just end up feeling awkard and stupid." And he said "You didn't seem to have that problem that time at ******."
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Has he ever complained or comment about your lack of sexual confidence? Do you think he wishes you were more comfortable w/ your sexuality?


I wondering if what he is having a difficult time getting over is that you still feel so guilty about it....... he might feel slighted because you were able to let loose that night and it WASN'T w/ him.......he is probably concerned about his own sex appeal but doesn't know how to express that to you.....so he takes a cheap shots.
People will often take cheap shots when they are feeling a little insecure.

I also wondered if maybe he was having a difficult time hearing you say you think about it everyday.....maybe he thinks you feel guilty because you can't get the way you felt (with the OM) that night out of your mind.....and that makes him feel incompetent.
Does he have trouble expressing his feelings?

ruby,

Can I ask a question? Do you think he resents the fact that you were capable of acting "wantonly" or less "inhibited" without him....but express lack of confidence or willingness to experiment in the marital bedroom? Maybe he feels cheated in that way....because you're more modest at home? I don't know....it's just an idea.

I get a totally different take than you both. I think it is cruel of him to still be doing this to her, three years after the fact. And in lieu of what she has done to prevent it from ever happening again.

She confessed, worked hard on herself, and he throws cheap shots at her...still.

Why are you unable to forgive yourself Ruby? That's what I want to know.

Why is it that FWW have such a hard time communicating with their H's.

I don't know. I'm just seeing this so different I guess. I'm thinking boundaries, I think.

Thread jack warning~~

Star, as a side note, I read your post regarding recovery on the other thread, and now that I am thinking about it, I wanted to let you know I thought it was an excellent post.

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pretty much what I was thinking too.....just much more concise. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I get what you guys are saying, but I don't think that is it. I flashed my very conservative black bra after losing a bet...pathetic I know...that was what he was referring to. It doesn't even compare to what we have shared, done, etc.

I don't know. I am just so disappointed in myself. I hate, hate, hate that I brought this into our marriage. I am so ashamed of myself. I don't know if my H has forgiven me.

It's always with me. I hide it really well, but it is always with me.

She confessed, worked hard on herself, and he throws cheap shots at her...still.
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Oh, the cheap shots are definitely wrong and cruel considering
how hard she blames herself......but, I wonder if her H is so hurt (but maybe not for the reasons ruby imagines) that he can not even understand HER shame.
cheap shots are an immature attempt at handling his own resentment and insecurities......
deep down...he may blame himself because she doesn't feel 'wanton' and sexy around him.
Some men base their desirability on the way a woman will "let loose" w/ them.

That's all you did, Ruby?

I don't think that is all that bad. And it is NOT worthy of three years of shame.

Ruby stay here and work this through with the people on this board if you can't talk to one of the Harley's.

Don't just stop posting like so many others do who really need this place.

Nia,

Yes, I see what you are saying about people and cheap shots. And how men see value in themselves.

No, that wasn't just it. But that was what he was referring to after I said I wish I was more confident wearing the things the VS model was wearing.

josie,

I agree with you that it's cruel....I'm trying to understand what is driving his cruelty....what triggered it? Maybe he's just mean, but usually....that sort of thing is driven by insecurity, fear, pain, self loathing etc.....so I'm just wondering where that's coming from.

Ruby,

The other thing that comes to mind....is that he sees this as a way to "control" and keep you shameful and insecure. And it worked....you fell apart. He uses your pain to reassure him that you're still faithful.

What if he couldn't get that reaction from you? How can you begin to dig yourself out from under all of this guilt? And be less of a target?

It also sounds like "forgiveness" is on your mind. You don't really feel forgiven (especially not when it's been brought up this way). So what does forgiveness from your husband look like to you? And did you know that it's okay to tell him that you need to feel his forgiveness and negotiate some ways to protect your marriage from future conflict. After three years, and plenty of remorse from you.....I think there's absolutely nothing wrong with telling him that his comments show a lack of forgiveness and you'd like to know when he's willing to work with you on moving past this incident.

For you though....I would love to see you work on a response that is "empowering" instead of "cowering". There are some very simple ones that wouldn't be hard to employ and might help you avoid the crying jag (which gives him alot of power).

Here's an example:

H...You didn't seem to have that problem when.....

Ruby.....Ouch. You hit the bullseye with that one. What do you "get" out of continuing to punish me instead of forgiving me?

josie....thanks for the compliment. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I think I may have given you guys the wrong impression of my H. He isn't throwing out these cheap shots constantly. They were pretty regular the first year, but what happened Saturday night had not happened in quiet a few months. I think that is what really threw me.

We were having a great time...just got back from playing golf, his most favorite thing to do that I am trying to learn and enjoy...he and my son were making dinner, for a cubscout project...I made the comment about the VS model and he made his comment. I was shocked and hurt...not to mention a little mad because he doesn't want me bringing it up but he does in a very nonproductive way.

I thought I handled it pretty good by saying that I would be more than willing to talk to him about that night, but the cheap shots hurt and aren't helpful. Of course, me going off by myself to cry a little wasn't the greatest thing, but I didn't want to cry in front of him or my children. Besides, I feel like this is something I have to deal with myself...he hasn't been interested in my IC or what I'm reading.

I can't imagine that he makes these comments as a way to control me through shame since he doesn't like to discuss any of this or me. I assumed these comments were made because he was hurting and/or mad.

Why I don't know if my H has forgiven me? Well, he has never said it. The only time he has shown any type of emotion regarding my actions is when I confessed. He was mad and confused. The following day, it was as if nothing had happened. He asked a few questions and told me he was hurt in I think 3 emails and he asked 1 or 2 questions out of the blue 2 or 3 times. If I brought it up...asking him if he was doing okay or if he had any questions...he would say "Why do you keep bringing it up. Just quit bringing it up"..."If I need to talk about it I will." If I was crying, it was as if I wasn't. I would excuse myself to get myself under control and when I came back out, it was as if nothing was ever said. He was fine.

I have no idea if he has really dealt with this or if he has just pushed it away. He lets A LOT roll off his back. He says he loves me, enjoys spending time with me, is very involved with our children and is very helpful around our house. I just have no idea what is in his head about this. Does he carry it (unforgiveness) around like I carry it (shame and guilt) around?

I know it is not healthy to let my own self-forgiveness be dependent on his forgiveness. But it is for me. He told me once he knew how sorry I was for all of this...I hold on to that very tight. I just hope he doesn't feel like he is settling...that he has to settle for this.

ruby,


I didn't get the wrong impression at all. I know how this stuff works. Let me explain using myself as an example. I am the BS, and my husband had at least two incidents (that I'm sure of) with prostitutes. I forgave him....I really did....but that didn't remove the triggers (which last to this day), and I really had no control over that. The VC ad was a trigger for him I guess....especially since you comment recreated the bra image for him. Whenever "Fatal Attraction" comes on (one of H's OWs got stalkerish)....I think about the infidelity and I get mad all over again. Whenever there is a scene in a strip club on TV....I think about it. And I've done EXACTLY the same thing your H has done....drop a "zinger" to make him hurt like I do. I guess deep down, I know it will hurt him, even though I really don't want to be cruel about it. It's not good for a marriage....no matter how understandable it is. It's my residual pain....and your husband's....but it's not a healthy to deal with it. My H wouldn't run off and cry....that isn't his way....but he would definitely react: withdraw, become angry, leave the house. Eventually, he told me that it alienated him so much, and destroyed so much of his love for me when I said those things....that it needed to stop. He needed to feel forgiven, and he didn't feel forgiven as long as he had to wait for the next zinger....just like you don't.

I made a decision at that point to share my feelings instead of reacting with a zinger to hurt him back. For instance, your H could have told you that your comment about the VC ad triggered bad memories for him, and you both could have comforted each other.

Your reaction didn't help the situation....anymore than my husband's anger helped mine. Honesty....from both sides is what ultimately put an end to it.

Whenever there is a scene in a strip club on TV....I think about it. And I've done EXACTLY the same thing your H has done....drop a "zinger" to make him hurt like I do. I guess deep down, I know it will hurt him, even though I really don't want to be cruel about it. It's not good for a marriage....no matter how understandable it is. It's my residual pain....and your husband's....but it's not a healthy to deal with it.
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LOL.
I almost wrote the exact same thing.
I am embarrassed to admit it but I still struggle w/ "zingers" or cheap shots when I get triggered and remember my H's IB... And when I have "zinged" him it came from place within me that felt unsafe and unsure about HIM.
So, I was thinking your H may feel very much the same way, Ruby.

Okay...I think I understand it now. My comment about the VS ad triggered him and he reacted with his comment because he was hurt and he wanted to hurt me.

So how should I have reacted? Say what I said...I would be more than willing to talk to you about that night, but the cheap shots hurt and aren't helpful?

Should I have tried to comfort/hug him? Apologize again?

I really walk on egg shells with this because he has been so adament about me not talking about it. I don't know how to react when he brings it up...because usually it isn't him asking me a question...it's a zinger.

And I shouldn't have gone off to cry. He didn't realize that was what I had done until I came back and I guess it was obvious that I had been crying. But I am a huge cryer, hate that about myself, so how do I control that?

Should I have tried to comfort/hug him? Apologize again?
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well,I don't know for sure.....but, I do know that when I am feeling THAT way, it would help if my H responded by acknowledging my right to feel offended and disrespected by what he did.... apologizing in a non defensive way. I would appreciate a show of affection or better yet a confirmation that he desires me.

What I Need is to feel safe that he wants to be with ME...that he isn't looking to step outside the marriage to get his needs met again.

I really walk on egg shells with this because he has been so adament about me not talking about it. I don't know how to react when he brings it up...because usually it isn't him asking me a question...it's a zinger.
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That sounds like pride to me.
he wants to just forget about it...put it behind him because it doesn't like the way he FEELS when you talk about it...but, He still gets triggered and sometimes a zinger pops out of his mouth before he can stop himself. I know the feeling. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

How do you feel about it....do you want to talk about it w/ him?
would he be willing to go to MC w/ you?