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Tyk,

I think your right about this, but I have good job that I make good money at. I could transfer, but that would be awhile away. Without a degree I couldn't make what I make now. This is what she knows, but just wants to throw out the fogbabble.

As far as the surgery, we did dicuss this before all of this. But I have always been strongly opposed to it. But for personally, that's fine. She has to live with dicision. I just want her full force in the marriage first.

Not bad about the carrot though.


BS (me) : 43yo
WW: 41 yo
married 17+ yrs
D-Day #1 ONS Aug 03
D-Day #2 Dec 5, 2007
Four kids: 14 yo Son, 11 yo Son, 7 yo Daughter, 5 yo son

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I just can't tell you how relieved I am that this is about a steak around her neck, and not around your waist.


Oh my gosh.... This is the best laugh I have had in a long time....


BS 52, FWH 53, Married 1-1-84
D-day 5-14-07, WH moved in with OW
Plan A 9 months, DARK Plan B 3-17-08 until 3-2-09
WH and OW broke up 1-09
Started over 7-09
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Ever since my WW read my journal, she's been watching me on the internet. She knows I post stuff here. But she hasn't been to the site yet. She can believe I'm getting advice from a bunch "idiots" on the internet. So I'm finally getting a chance to respond.

Quote:

Ah-ha...I wasn't sure, so I was waiting for clarification! (giggling a little, can't help it!)




I at least got a good chuckle out that myself.

Quote:

The problem is that she is in no position to make demands, although she THINKS she is....ignore it. Just totally ignore all of her posturing, because it means very little right now. She is in the "too cool for you" stage of recovery and you just need to put her on ignore and keep Plan A-ing. You must create some boundaries for yourself, though, so that she does not lose respect for you. I would learn the reverse babble-VERY important because it throws the blame back on her without making you sound like an a-hole.




This is what amazes me. Her demands. But I can do this. I need to bring back my quick witted self. Without the a-hole part.

Quote:

You must learn loving detachment during this period or she will succeed in baiting you every chance she gets. She will do this to justify her A to herself and "prove" that you are some sort of jerk. DON'T LET HER GET TO YOU!!! You must be JOE COOL right now. Seriously, sit down and look through some old pics of yourself from "back in the day" when she first fell for you and try to channel that guy.




This is the hard part right now. But I am getting better at it. I guess you can only beat a dog so long.

Quote:

What is the "life apart" scenario? You need to make a list of things that you want to be sitting next to her for, holding her hand and sharing the experience together, not seperately....kids graduations, weddings, holidays etc. You want to do these things together as a family, not from across the aisle. Remind her that every other holdiay (Christmas) the kids would be with YOU and she would be ALONE, and quickly follow up with "I want us to share these times together, not on a court schedule." Stuff like that.




I did do this. I think that was the other thing she really realized. Plus trying to live alone with 4 kids. I asked her how the OM would react to her showing up with 4 kids and saying "we're here". She just popped off with "why don't you ask him?" I just said "not a bad idea, I've been wanting to talk to him."

Quote:

Write her letters that tell her how much you miss your talks and walks and intimate times. How beautiful/sexy you think she is. Make sure while your face-to-face encounters are "cool" (NO BEGGING, PLEADING, NO CONSTANT "I LOVE YOU") but then you also leave little notes around to show her that you really do care. And DON'T miss those moments of fog clearing!!!!!!




I was doing this, but that was before I realized we really weren't in recovery at all.

Quote:

The ONLY reason you would let her have the surgery is STRATEGICAL on your part




I agree with this. I did tell her 6 months ago that if she really just had to have that done, I wouldn't stand in her way anymore. But don't act like your doing it for me.

Quote:

Logic obviously points out that getting a boob job isn't going to help her major self-esteem issues right now (band-aid on a gaping wound). She WILL have to deal with these issues eventually, your goal right now is to keep her in NC as much as you can.




Logic doesn't work with her. You have to tie feelings to it first. But your right about her dealing with it.

Quote:

If you want to address the issue of "no SF until I have the surgery" I would reverse babble this rather than sound "demanding" or "controlling." Something like "Well dear, I wouldn't be comfortable having sex with YOU until you are tested and are safe for ME. Besides, I think you are sexy just the way you are...what would you like for dinner?" Make SURE you change the subject and then walk away if she blows a gasket




I like this response.

Quote:

It is futile to try and educate her, but imperative that you maintain your boundaries.




Your not a kiddin'

Quote:

Mulan had a great post on boundaries, which is now in Peperband's "Notable Posts" thread on the board (one of the last posts, as she just added it a couple days ago).




I'll go read those.


BS (me) : 43yo
WW: 41 yo
married 17+ yrs
D-Day #1 ONS Aug 03
D-Day #2 Dec 5, 2007
Four kids: 14 yo Son, 11 yo Son, 7 yo Daughter, 5 yo son

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"She has no love for me and can't ever get it back" FOGSPEAK

"She's still in contact with this guy and won't quit with the contact" FOGSPEAK

"She says she doesn't want to run off with this guy, just wants to be left alone" FOGSPEAK

"She won't leave the house and neither will I. Wants me to move out." FOGSPEAK

Geezus... were you at my house this weekend? Scary similarities.... and amazing how much easier it is bear when I hear that you heard the same exact thing. Wow... exact same words, literally. I wish I could be as strong as I am telling you to be. Scary similarities though... Do not leave. I had to leave for one night, broke down and just could not bear it, could not function. But now I'm back and trust me I shouldn't have left, so DON'T LEAVE!!!! No matter what!!! She'll tell you she'll call the police, say "OK" and walk away, don't leave unless they make you. I think WS's almost never follow thru with that one.

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Quote:

Geezus... were you at my house this weekend? Scary similarities.... and amazing how much easier it is bear when I hear that you heard the same exact thing. Wow... exact same words, literally. I wish I could be as strong as I am telling you to be. Scary similarities though...




I was just telling a guy today that it's funny how it all seems to be "by the book". Just like you, your brain knows what to do and what's going on, but your worry can get to you and you make mistakes. I've done that so many times it's not funny. I've caved in. then had to regroup. But I just have to stay on course and not give in to the worry.

Like you said though, it's comforting to hear someone else has had the same things said and done to them. Not good, but comforting.


BS (me) : 43yo
WW: 41 yo
married 17+ yrs
D-Day #1 ONS Aug 03
D-Day #2 Dec 5, 2007
Four kids: 14 yo Son, 11 yo Son, 7 yo Daughter, 5 yo son

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My WW is freaking out right now. She won't go see the MC'er. She is scared to death. She won't quit unless we "move out right now and into an apartment". I can hear the fear in her voice. She is so scared she won't do anything but panic. I guess I just continue with Plan A. She won't leave, and neither will I. The kids, you can tell, are a nervous wreck. I guess I'm going to see the MC alone again tonight. This really stinks.


BS (me) : 43yo
WW: 41 yo
married 17+ yrs
D-Day #1 ONS Aug 03
D-Day #2 Dec 5, 2007
Four kids: 14 yo Son, 11 yo Son, 7 yo Daughter, 5 yo son

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Put your arm around her shoulder and look straight into her eyes and say "You have nothing to be afraid of, you know. I swore I would protect you for better or worse. Come with me and we'll help each other figure this out TOGETHER!"

Please try it, BDA, don't tell me "Well, I tried and she just won't let me, etc.."

DON'T MAKE ME GET TOUGH ON YOU, MISTA!!!

As Mr. W would say, you do these things KNOWING on the inside that you have all the cards, all the info, all the support, all the weapons, etc to fight this battle. YOU are in control, YOU know she can't live without you. STOP letting her convince you otherwise. Do it with that sly grin that says "I KNOW I am the one she really wants no matter WHAT she says."

QUIT LETTING HER JERK YOU AROUND DANGIT!!!


Peace,
LaLa

FWW(me) 37
BS 38
DS 9 & 5
PA 7/06-8/06
Dday 2/17/07

Fogapalooza-My Babbly Beginning
My Story
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Thanks LaLa, I will try.


BS (me) : 43yo
WW: 41 yo
married 17+ yrs
D-Day #1 ONS Aug 03
D-Day #2 Dec 5, 2007
Four kids: 14 yo Son, 11 yo Son, 7 yo Daughter, 5 yo son

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Pray for the strength and know that WE BELIEVE in you. Want it bad enough and know that it's up to YOU to be the lighthouse for your FAMILY.

I remember when Mimi would have me do something that totally freaked me out. But I did because I wanted my M more than anything else.

Don't let an opportunity for recovery pass you by and one day have a regret.


BS 52, FWH 53, Married 1-1-84
D-day 5-14-07, WH moved in with OW
Plan A 9 months, DARK Plan B 3-17-08 until 3-2-09
WH and OW broke up 1-09
Started over 7-09
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Your right. I don't know what to do but to "keep truckin'". I ended up going to MC alone again. After I ran some errands and then came home. I was happy last night and we watched tv., played with the little ones. We didn't fight. I just have to trust God completely now. Continue Plan A as long as I can. It's going to be hard to get over some of the horrible things she said to me. But I'll leave that to God also.


BS (me) : 43yo
WW: 41 yo
married 17+ yrs
D-Day #1 ONS Aug 03
D-Day #2 Dec 5, 2007
Four kids: 14 yo Son, 11 yo Son, 7 yo Daughter, 5 yo son

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Um, BDA...did you do what I suggested? (to get her to come to MC?)

You know, you really need to re-adjust your Plan A. Your Plan A is MUCH too dependant on what she throws at you as opposed to the way it SHOULD be...

Plan A is about YOU, not her. It is about finding the strength within YOURSELF. It is about putting her on ignore and KNOWING that you are what she needs whether SHE thinks that right now or not. Remember, she is not thinking clearly...she doesn't have a CLUE what she wants. You have to show her!! "Keep truckin" is NOT the right attitude. Change that to..."Ha! Look how she is acting...I know better! She is a lost soul and I am all the man she will EVAH need!" You do not verbalize this...it must be actualized in your presence.

So, don't placate me with "You're right!" DO something to change your attitude and start winning this war. I am going to tell you FLAT OUT...at the stage she is in right now (are you snooping to verify NC?), if you keep floundering and do not get yourself some confidance and control, you WILL lose this battle. And maybe the war.

I will say it again...maybe this time you will listen...

QUIT LETTING HER CONTROL YOUR EVERY MOVE!!

Last edited by Resonance; 03/05/08 11:02 AM.

Peace,
LaLa

FWW(me) 37
BS 38
DS 9 & 5
PA 7/06-8/06
Dday 2/17/07

Fogapalooza-My Babbly Beginning
My Story
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I determined yesterday to do that very thing. To do it for me. I am going to be the happy F I was. I did this last night. I am not going to give in to her unrational demands. I will do something with the kids whether she goes or not.

There is still contact with the OM. They still work together and he doesn't get transfered until late April or early May. She refuses to quit her job. They don't work directly together and their shifts differ slightly. They are in the store together 3 days a week. OM in the front, WW in the back. But I realize that's not the same as NC. She also has refused to move out. I won't move out. Everyone has been exposed that I know of. She won't go to MC right now. I don't know exactly why, but after the first meeting she really like the C. But she will not go now. If they contact each other it is in the store or from pay phones, but I do keep track elsewhere the best I can. So when I say keep truckin' I mean keep the Plan A happy F attitude and look for cracks to end the contact. Right now she is anxious one minute and depressed the next. But that's also why she won't quit.

I started to work out again. I've lost 32 lbs. I will improve for our marriage or my next one.


BS (me) : 43yo
WW: 41 yo
married 17+ yrs
D-Day #1 ONS Aug 03
D-Day #2 Dec 5, 2007
Four kids: 14 yo Son, 11 yo Son, 7 yo Daughter, 5 yo son

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Well things are going better. She's starting to see what a person this OM is. She is going to get her resume' ready today. We had a good time last night with the kids.

It started rocky as she had a auto accident. Probably totalled our van. We went to go pick up our rental this morning. She really opened up this morning with me. I have to go with DS11 to a baseball tourney. We'll see how tonight goes. Not going to claim that we're recovering until they have complete NC this time.


BS (me) : 43yo
WW: 41 yo
married 17+ yrs
D-Day #1 ONS Aug 03
D-Day #2 Dec 5, 2007
Four kids: 14 yo Son, 11 yo Son, 7 yo Daughter, 5 yo son

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Yep...and it will take 6-8 weeks of NC to start to see little glimpses of your old wife again. Hang in there...you can do this! Loving detachment, BDA...loving detachment! Don't miss those opportunities of fog clearing!!!


Peace,
LaLa

FWW(me) 37
BS 38
DS 9 & 5
PA 7/06-8/06
Dday 2/17/07

Fogapalooza-My Babbly Beginning
My Story
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Quote:

Yep...and it will take 6-8 weeks of NC to start to see little glimpses of your old wife again.




I'm actually starting to see it now. She started to say things that makes me believe she's seeing clearer. At least she realizes she has to get out of that place and find another job. She also is realizing things she really doesn't like about OM. It's a start. Long, long way to go.


BS (me) : 43yo
WW: 41 yo
married 17+ yrs
D-Day #1 ONS Aug 03
D-Day #2 Dec 5, 2007
Four kids: 14 yo Son, 11 yo Son, 7 yo Daughter, 5 yo son

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Just a short story for you BDA. Before I knew about my WW A, back when I believed the "I love you but not in love with you" crap and didn't know what was going on: we'd have good days, good weeks even. Things would start to seem like they were going back to normal, and then for no reason I could understand they'd go right back to crappy again. These cycles would go for weeks sometimes, and I'd start to relax my guard and hope again. I don't know exactly what was happening, but I am pretty sure this all had to do with the ebbs and flows of the A. What I DO know is that it stopped when the A stopped, and not a second before.

So don't read much, if anything, into her changes in mood towards you while she is still in contact with OM. Keep up on Plan A, as it will still cause conflict within her, but don't allow yourself to be thrown off by her temporary "niceness".

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I kind of figured this Tyk. I know until she in having NC, I can't count on anything. Took me awhile to figure this out. Thanks.


BS (me) : 43yo
WW: 41 yo
married 17+ yrs
D-Day #1 ONS Aug 03
D-Day #2 Dec 5, 2007
Four kids: 14 yo Son, 11 yo Son, 7 yo Daughter, 5 yo son

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Gotta agree with Tyk. We had those cycles too, when I thought we had NC - and I couldn't understand what was going on. Couldn't figure out why he was acting the way he was. But once the A was really over, all that stopped. All the excuses, the complaining about me checking up on him, the attitudes....gone, when the affair truly ended.

I hope your W's job change happens soon and helps to bring about some change for you.


BS (Me) - 34
WS - 31
married 12/22/01
2 DDs - 4 yrs. and 23 mos.
DDay - 11/4/07
several promises of NC that never happened
2/15/08 - the aliens leave and recovery begins at last!
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Well the WW is going to MC tonight without me this time. I'm so happy she's going. I told her to "let me have it" if that's what it takes. If I'm screwed up then I need help. I don't know how it will come out, but it's a start. Next to get her resume out. I'll be glad when there is NC.


BS (me) : 43yo
WW: 41 yo
married 17+ yrs
D-Day #1 ONS Aug 03
D-Day #2 Dec 5, 2007
Four kids: 14 yo Son, 11 yo Son, 7 yo Daughter, 5 yo son

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ok things haven't been that great this past week. She has been cold and mean. I found out last night she talk to OM for 40 minutes. Since she won't move out, is it time for me to move out? At least if she's not willing to change? I know this won't be good on the kids, but how long do I put up with this?

Last edited by BetterDaysAhead; 03/31/08 10:36 AM.

BS (me) : 43yo
WW: 41 yo
married 17+ yrs
D-Day #1 ONS Aug 03
D-Day #2 Dec 5, 2007
Four kids: 14 yo Son, 11 yo Son, 7 yo Daughter, 5 yo son

First Day on MB

Second Thread on MB
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