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h8nlife Offline OP
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D day Was 4/27/08 I'm 51 my wife is 50. Married 32 years. The OM broke it off. The only contact since that day, was the OM called her mothers day to see how she was doing. My wife said she told him OK and not to call her again. I suspect there may have been more to it than that,the call lasted a minute and ten seconds. But ultimately I believe she did ask him not to call again. She left the number on her cellphone caller ID which could have easily been erased, she knows I monitor her phone, She said she was going to tell me, but that we had such a good weekend together she didn't want to ruin it.We have been getting along pretty good We have had a number of intimate moments, hugging, kissing, sex,Talk. I was acting very needy. I only felt decent when I was Touching her, I was very clingy. Which I now know was the wrong thing to do. She soon grew tired of it. Then I went to work on trying to repair things, ANOTHER MISTAKE! Trying to get her to open up, trying to get her to read things from the MB site, trying to analyze why. All this after having read all of Dr Harley recommendations. I didn't sink in! I found this site 5/3 6 days after D day. Read everything I thought pertained to my situation on the MB site, but I realize that it doesn't always sink in because your to emotional to think straight. I found out that my wife went and got another phone. She hasn't told me about it. I found the phone and looked to see the ingoing and outgoing calls and messages. Nothing. The only calls on the phone where from telemarketers.I called the numbers. If she was erasing her calls why wouldn't she erase these. She doesn't know that I know she has the phone. It leads me to believe she hasn't used it? I think maybe she had thoughts of contacting the OM, but has not done it, knowing he considers it over. Do I let her know I know she has the phone? Do I keep it a secret knowing that if she has contact I'll be able to find out about it? She got the phone six days ago, 5/16. Right now I would like to know how I should be acting that would best serve to help my marriage. My instincts so far have not been good. Two days ago I had a week moment and went out to the garage to cry my eyes out and she saw me, I didn't want her to. When I came in to the house later I acted normal and went into the bed room to tell her sorry about that. Knowing she has had enough of my crying. She looked at me and said I'm done! She wants out. I managed to smooth things over and we both had a hug fest and cried. I read Dr Harley articles but I don't always figure it out until I go back and read again after I have made the mistake. If she wants to be lovey dovey do I do the same?
If she's interested in sex, should I? I sure want to, but should something else be in play before being intimate, like honesty? Right now we are getting along pretty good, but I can't get her to fill out the emotional needs questioner and she will not commit to counseling. I know this post is all over the placebut you get the jist. WHAT DO I DO NEXT???? Please ask all the questions you want. I need the help. Thank you.


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h8nlife:

One quick question: When she allegedly ended the A with OM, did she exhibit any signs of withdrawal, such as depression, moodiness, anger for no reason? My FWW had told me at one point that the A was over (she says she intended at the time to end it, but just couldn't stay away from OM). But, about that time, I came across this site, and read the article about Ending the Affair, which described the withdrawal of the WS. My WW did not show that, which made me suspicious. I discovered her lie when I was able to figure out the remote access code to OM's answering machine, and listened to the messages WW had left him. The messages didn't have a date stamp, but from the content I could figure out the last two had been left in just the prior two days. In those, she tells him how she loooooooves him, and miiiiisses him. She then asks for him to call her back about when he'll next be able to come over our house.

After confronted with all this, she admitted she was still talking to him, and then agreed to NC. After this time, she did exhibit the typical symptoms, often crying for no reason, or because a certain song came on the radio.

If your WW hasn't exhibited symptoms of withdrawal, I'd be very sceptical that the A was really over.


BH (me) age 55
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married 26 years
First DDay 2/23/08, 1 day after PA began, ~1-1/2 months after EA began
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Two days ago I had a week moment and went out to the garage to cry my eyes out and she saw me, I didn't want her to. When I came in to the house later I acted normal and went into the bed room to tell her sorry about that. Knowing she has had enough of my crying. She looked at me and said I'm done! She wants out. I managed to smooth things over and we both had a hug fest and cried.

Ok, what's this? You apologized for hurting from her adultery? And she said she's done because you were crying? Whoa. That's a red flag. That's an excuse. That is not a legitimate reason. You can't see that cause you are too close.

I'd say that she is still in contact. Has a NC letter been sent to OM? If not you need her to write it and for you to send it. Is the OM M? If yes, expose to OMW now.

A new phone? Another red flag. I'd monitor and verify NC.

In the mean time try to meet her ENs (the ones you know about). Eliminate LBs (things she has always complained about). Inprove you. Be man that any woman would want. Change for the better.

h8, I'm sorry I don't think the A is over. Please keep your eyes WIDE OPEN. Watch her actions and don't believe her words.

And if she balks at sending the NC letter, you have your answer.


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the call lasted a minute and ten seconds

Long enough for him to suggest she get a new hidden phone or for her to give him the new number and shhhhhhshhh... don't call me on this number anymore.

How did DDay happen? Did you find out on your own or did she confess?

How long had it been going on? Are you sure?

I'm betting it's still on.

Last edited by princessmeggy; 05/23/08 02:42 PM.

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h8nlife Offline OP
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I'm certainly know expert. But she does seem depressed. My wife is a very friendly person and I noticed her straining to smile and appear happy when people come around. Hasn't been eating much. One of the main reasons I believe the A is over, the day I found out about it I was demanding she answer questions during my fit. She told me that he had broke it off three weeks prior a she felt rejected. Phone records would indicate that that was true. I also called the OM who I new. He apologized profusely and began crying. He is single and had no reason to do so. He was also a victim of an A. I went and saw her at work just an hour before this post and she seems to be tired, normally she is a bundle of energy. Will I was with here At work she got called away and I was able to check her new phone, which she keeps in her purse during the day but hides it god knows where, before she comes home. Still no calls. The phone bill will be coming soon and I'm in position to get it before she does. Thanks for your response.



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Ms G. The only reason I apologized is because I felt that the whole crying thing was a big no no in plan A. Am I wrong? I thought it was a big LB, and it appeared to be. I think the A is over, she just doesn't want it to be. I have cried a lot and I had tried to get her on board with MB early on. So every time she would come home from work or leaving in the morning I would bring something up. So I guess she just wanted a little break. I thought that is what plan A is all about, making them feel good when they are around you. Reminding her constantly with my requests for filling out the EN trying to get her to agree to counseling and crying all the time became to much. Don't get me wrong, I can't believe I am so concerned about the feelings of someone who made me feel I wanted to die. But I love her so much, I was willing to try the plan A thing. Am I doing it wrong? Please I want to know. Michele I've read most of your post and do respect your opinion. Don't hold back. I'm looking for answers.


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Just because they broke it off does not mean it's over. Even with the "easiest" cases where the A (the PA part of it) ends, there is still verbal contact. There is RARELY a complete cut off of communication. It takes awhile.

You should be wondering WHY SHE HAS A SECRET PHONE.

So how did you find out?

And why you are not "allowed" to cry in front of her.


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She got the new phone 5 days after she talked to him, so she didn't have a number to give him. D day happened by me seeing text messages on her first phone. She said the A was 8 months.


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Of course I'm wondering about the new phone. But do I ask about it? LB? Should I keep it to my self for the purpose of trying to find out if there is contact? As far as crying in front of her. We have been together for 34 years 32 married I think she truly does feel bad when she sees me break down. Do I want her to feel bad or do I want her to enjoy being around me. Am I missing something in this plan A thing?


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I posted my last one before I saw your answer.



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Don't know if you have read this but this is what Dr Harley says about plan A and B.

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So, then, what is plan A and plan B?

Plan A is for the betrayed spouse to negotiate with the wayward spouse to totally separate from the lover without angry outbursts, disrespect, and demands. These three Love Busters not only ruin any effort to reach a negotiated settlement, but they also make the betrayed spouse much less attractive to the wayward spouse. Instead of encouraging total separation from the lover, the anger, disrespect and demands of the betrayed spouse make the lover appear to be the only one who truly cares about the wayward spouse. They literally throw the wayward spouse into the arms of the lover.

On the other hand, if the betrayed spouse approaches the wayward spouse with respect and thoughtfulness, the cruelty and self-indulgence of the affair is much easier for the wayward spouse to understand. And once the wayward spouse's mistake is acknowledged, it's much easier for him or her to take the first step toward recovery by agreeing to never see or talk to the lover again.

In these negotiations for total separation, the causes of the affair should be addressed. Since one of these causes is usually unfulfilled emotional needs, the betrayed spouse should express a willingness to meet those needs after the affair has ended. Another common cause is a wayward spouse's failure to take the betrayed spouse's feelings into account. The betrayed spouse's inconsiderate behavior sometimes leads the wayward spouse to believe that he or she has the right to return thoughtlessness with thoughtlessness by having an affair. Willingness of the betrayed spouse to follow the Policy of Joint Agreement goes a long way toward resolving the issue of thoughtlessness.

A third possible cause of an affair is a lifestyle where spouses spend much of their leisure time apart from each other, and form leisure-time friendships with those of the opposite sex. A plan to avoid being away from each other overnight and making each other favorite leisure-time companions goes a long way toward creating a passionate marriage that is essentially affair-proof.

In general, a betrayed spouse's effort to encourage the wayward spouse to end the affair should address all the root causes of the affair, and offer a solid plan for marital recovery. It should not be one-sided, however. The plan should make the wayward spouse and the betrayed spouse equally responsible for following the overall plan.

But plan A, an effort to end the affair with thoughtfulness and care, doesn't always work. In many cases a wayward spouse is so trapped by the addiction that he or she does not have the will-power to do the right thing. Once in a while the fog lifts and the cruelty and tragedy of the affair hits the wayward spouse right between the eyes. In a moment of grief and guilt, he or she promises to end it. But then the pain of withdrawal symptoms often brings back the fog with all its excuses and rationalization, and the affair is on again.

Sometimes a wayward spouse settles into a routine of having his or her cake and eating it too. In an effort to win the wayward spouse back, the betrayed spouse meets emotional needs that the lover cannot meet, while the lover meets emotional needs that the betrayed spouse has not learned to meet. While this competition is excruciatingly painful to the betrayed spouse, and the lover as well, the wayward spouse basks in the warmth of being loved and cared for by two people, with no real motivation to choose one over the other.

So, to avoid an indefinite period of suffering while a wayward spouse vacillates between spouse and lover, and to avoid rewarding the selfish behavior of having needs met by both spouse and lover, if plan A does not work within a reasonable period of time, I recommend plan B.

Plan B is for the betrayed spouse to avoid all contact with the wayward spouse until the affair has completely ended and the wayward spouse has agreed to my plan for recovery. In many cases, once an affair has ended, a betrayed spouse makes the mistake of taking the wayward spouse back before an agreement is made regarding marital recovery. This leads to a return to all the conditions that made the affair possible -- love is not restored, resentment is not overcome, and there is a very great risk for another affair. Without agreement and subsequent implementation of a plan for recovery, the betrayed spouse is better off continuing with plan B.

Since plan B (and plan A, for that matter), is extremely stressful for the betrayed spouse, I usually recommend that he or she ask a physician to prescribe anti-depressant medication to be taken throughout the crisis. This not only greatly reduces the suffering of the betrayed spouse, but it also helps keep a clear head at a time when patience and wise decisions are crucial. Anti-depressant medication does not numb the betrayed spouse to the crisis, it actually helps raise him or her above emotional reactions that would otherwise prevent clear-headed thinking. Why suffer and and make poor choices when anti-depressant medication can help ease your pain and improve your concentration in this time of unprecedented crisis?

While I have seen remarkable success by people using plan A and plan B, success is by no means guaranteed. The problem with Plan B is that the unfaithful spouse may not return, nor agree to the plan for recovery, even after the affair has ended. Separation in marriage is always risky because, "out of sight, out of mind." Unless plan A leaves the wayward s pouse with the impression that returning home is an attractive choice, separation can become permanent. So before implementing plan B, you want to be sure that the last thing your spouse remembers about you is the care and thoughtfulness you offered in plan A. That way, the separation can help create, "absence makes the heart grow fonder."

As it turns out, most affairs end within six months of their seeing the light of day (being revealed to their family and friends), and almost all affairs end without leading to marriage. Even those few that end in marriage have only a 25% rate of success. That's because affairs are based on dishonesty and thoughtlessness for the feelings of others. That same dishonesty and thoughtlessness eventually turns on the lovers themselves, and the affair is destroyed by those same flaws that made it possible in the first place. What drives affairs is passion, not commitment, and once the passion wanes, there is nothing to help the lovers restore their passion. Marriage, on the other hand, especially with children, has many factors that motivate couples to restore their passion for each other after passion has waned. So when passion is gone from an affair, a wayward spouse is usually motivated to return to the betrayed spouse by all of these other factors. For most, it's a logical choice.

But what about marital separation when an affair is not the issue. In your letter, you did not indicate why you had separated. It may have been for reasons other than infidelity.

In general, I recommend separation when at least one spouse cannot control destructive behavior. An ongoing affair, of course, is one of those situations. Hence, plan B. But other situations such as physical and verbal abuse, where one spouse's mental or physical safety is as risk, are also grounds for separation. As in the case of infidelity, if one spouse is abusive, I often recommend plan A first, where, through negotiation (without anger, disrespect or demands), an attempt is made to overcome the abuse without separating.

But in some cases, the safety risks are so great that plan B should be implemented immediately, with no time for plan A. In these cases, treatment for the abusive habit must take place during separation, and some evidence must exist that the risk has been greatly reduced, or completely eliminated, before the spouses should return to each other. Then, after being together again, the formerly abusive spouse should be held accountable by others for his or her behavior to assure the other spouse's safety.

In other cases, such as annoying behavior or failure to meet important emotional needs, where thoughtlessness does not reach the level of physical or mental abuse, plan A should be given quite a bit of time and effort before resorting to plan B. Remember, plan A is negotiating (without anger, disrespect or demands) to eliminate the annoying behavior or improve the meeting of emotional needs. A blanket agreement between spouses to follow the Policy of Joint Agreement goes a long way toward eliminating these thoughtless acts, and can also help couples learn to meet each other's needs with enthusiasm. But without that policy, couples often find that they cannot get anywhere with each other through negotiation, and sometimes separation can eventually lead to mutual recognition that they need the Policy of Joint Agreement to help them resolve conflicts.

But, as I mentioned earlier, the risks of separation are great. It should be used only as a last resort to help resolve a fatal flaw in marriage. Once separated, couples often never do reconcile, remaining separated for life, or they eventually divorce. A fact unknown to many is that fifteen to twenty percent of all married couples end their lives permanently separated. These, who are not included in divorce statistics, usually feel that they should not legally divorce for religious reasons. But for most practical purposes, they are as divorced as those legally divorced. Their separation did not create the opportunity for reconciliation, but rather, created an even higher barrier between spouses.

So whenever spouses separate, I usually encourage a plan that moves them toward eventual reconciliation. From your letter, it sounds as if you are moving in that direction, and you simply need to know when it would be the right time to move back together. And you may want to know more about full marital recovery after you have ended your separation.

The four rules to recovery that I recommend after an affair are marital rules that every couple should be following. So they should form the basis for any plan for recovery after a separation. Since the four rules cover every conceivable problem that married couples face, they would address the issue that led to your separation. If you were to follow these four rules as part of your plan for recovery, I guarantee you that you will not only eliminate the problems that led you to separate, but you will also resolve many other conflicts that have prevented you from having a successful marriage.

I encourage you and your husband to make a commitment to follow the Four Rules for a Successful Marriage: Care, Protection, Honesty and Time, and once the commitment is made, end your separation and begin a marriage that will last a lifetime.


Yes you should try to eliminate the LBs, but I would not stuff the pain down. Yes it hurts her to see you like this...but you can only do so much to avoid that. I would not apologize.

Plan A for you at this point is keeping a watchful eye and making your home a pleasant place to be. You shouldn't try to "teach" her MB yet. This will come later. She's going to be foggy in her thinking. It's normal. Remember though, you were not responsible for her A, you are only responsible for your part in the M. Half is on you. Work on that half now.

Personally I would not discuss the phone quite yet. I would wait just a bit. There's no reason for her to have a secret phone...except to carry on secret conversations,,,right? Keep an eye on it.

What about an NC letter? Will she write one?


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At this point I don't know if it's a good idea to ask for the NC letter. I do believe it over from the OM's thinking but she still trying to get over him. D day I think she was crying not because she hurt me, but because the OM called quits. I live in a small town and now that my eyes are open I can keep a pretty good eye on things. Thanks Michele.


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My wife had a secret phone during her A. The sole purpose of the phone was to conduct the A. Im not sure what you are waiting for honestly. It seems like you think its possible she bought it and thought about maybe using it but never has?

I suppose thats possible. But if so that phone should be dead by now. if its not, why is she charging it? I would wait no more than 2 days. If the phone is still charged then she's having an affair. Im sorry. I really am. Ive been there. Its time to start thinking about what you are going to do if she is still having the affair.

Last edited by betterorworse; 05/23/08 06:45 PM.

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h8

If you haven't already read the info on this site, that is the first thing you should do. Read the Basic Concepts, the Articles, the Q&A, everything that pertains to infidelity. Then I would go out and get Surviving an Affair. You can also order it from this site. This will help you understand the dynamics of A's. THEY ARE ALL THE SAME.

All this knowledge will empower you and enable you to recover. Realize it is a VERY slow process and can take years, usually 2+. You will be on a rollercoaster of emotions. Right now you are in shock, just glad she's still here. That will likely change to your questioning WHY are YOU still here? It's all normal.

Recovery begins with NC for life and HONESTY. And they are both hard to come by early on. But they are so very critical. NC will help her defog. And it will bring her back down to earth. No more "highs" of the A. If NC is broken, you are starting at day1 again. A letter is a must. I realize you are scared right now and you don't want to push her away, but contact is by far the greater enemy.

Honesty is also critical. Does she answer your questions? Does she know WHY this happened? She needs to figure that out at some point so it does not happen again.



Quote
The OM broke it off. The only contact since that day, was the OM called her mothers day to see how she was doing. My wife said she told him OK and not to call her again.


If she truly does not want him to call again, then she would have no problems writing an NC letter. I would ask her to do it. From my experience if the WS makes excuses for not write an NC letter, then they are not finished with the A. And if they are really done, waiting makes writing one even trickier later on. Now is the time. I would not demand it. I would ask her to do it. Tell her that the first step in recovery is NC for life and that you would love a chance to recover your M.


Is she showing remorse? Is she willing to do whatever it takes to help you recover? What do her actions say?


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Does she have email?


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Also, after you read the Harley Articles on this site, go to the "Just Found Out" Section of this forum. There are three or four threads at the top that you will find helpful.

Sorry you are here, but you are not alone.


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h8nlife,

also, give the people on this forum some more info so they can help.

How long has this affair been going on?
Do you have Kids? Ages of kids?
If you have kids do they know of this affair?
Previous affairs -either side?
Sounds like you know the person? How do you know him? How long?
You said he is single is he divorced?
Does he have kids?
Does any of his family know?
Anyone else know about this affair?

Also, i suggest changing your thread title to something like - Newly betrayed Husband -Please help. You do this by changing the title of your first post.

Weekends on the forum can be quiet, be patient, youve already got some help and more is on the way.

Last edited by betterorworse; 05/23/08 07:17 PM. Reason: add more stuff

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After going back and rereading what you have posted, I'd still say that they are in contact. She got the phone 5 days after talking to him. And he was the one who called even though HE was the one that broke it off.

Things don't jive.

WSs will, even after being busted, lie to your face. You think that you are now going to get the truth because the cat's out of the bag, but you don't. You get more lies than truths. You need to really grasp this h8. Just because she says this is what is happening it doesn't mean squat.

Can she call him from work?

And yes I agree. I wouldn't wait too long to confront her on the phone. A few days.


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