I posted this in "Just Found Out..."

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2077815#Post2077815

Anyway, I'm wondering what the best plan is...

I have copies of e-mails printed out to bring along, just in case. Should I expose them, or keep them to myself?

I am thinking of changing my seat on the flight, but I'm not really sure what this guy looks like. I've seen his MySpace page, but not sure of his face. Should I inform her how why I chose to come down on the same day/time as the OM? Or, should I just play it off as coincidence (is honesty the best policy in this sort of situation?). She changed her password just before all of the communication started with the OM. She doesn't know that I know the new password (it's her MySpace password - she thought I didn't know it).

The exposure has already started. I explained to my wife that I have seen the cell phone records, and that I'm concerned that something is going on. I explained that she has let this guy into our marriage without my knowing. She said that they're just friends, and she really enjoys talking to her because he makes her happy. She says that talking to me doesn't make her happy. I told her that I was sorry for not making her happy. We talked about 90 minutes tonight, and she said on at least three occasions "I don't have time for this..." but kept talking with me. I explained that I wasn't holding her on the line and that she was free to hang up anytime, yet, she didn't.

Anyway, I'm not quite sure on what's the best tactic to request that she quit talking/texting this guy. I plan on just saying "I'm here to save our marriage, because it is important to me. Please quit talking to John as I believe that doing so prevents us from healing our marriage. I feel hurt and betrayed because you talk to him." Anything else?

I also plan on letting the guy know (nicely of course) that I'm not happy that he is there. I just want to introduce myself as my wife's husband and let him know that I'm here to save our marriage as it means a lot to me. I will ask him to end all contact with her forever so that we can begin restoring our marriage.

I'm pretty sure my wife will flip out. She will NOT be happy that I just showed up out of nowhere. I plan to explain to her that I'm here to save our marriage (she will probably get tired of hearing that).

Should I plan on staying at her place while I'm there? Or, should I get a hotel? My fear is that the OM isn't just going to go home... I don't know honestly, since I don't know him. But, if I spent $300 on a plane ticket because I thought I was going to get some action, I probably wouldn't just turn and leave - but he is 10 years younger than her (I'm sure she told him she's 30) and he may not find it worth the effort. I can't imagine what they have in common being 10 years apart.

I'm not sure how well we will work things out on our own. We both know we need counseling as we have a lot of issues to work out. I think she needs serious individual counseling, and I'm sure I will too by the time my trip down there is over.

Anyway, she already told me that she plans on getting a new cell phone number, and putting the bill in her name. I said that's fine... She said that she will NOT have someone snooping on her business and policing her. (I explained I only was looking because I was concerned that something was going on). I'm leary to tell her about her e-mails with this guy, but I was told that I should expose everything when I see them both together to get it all out in the open. Once that's done, I'll never know what she's up to since she's 1500 miles away. She can't be trusted at this point.

Any advice for me on this situation?

What sort of expectations should I have?

Any suggested answers to things like:

"Why are you spying on me?", "What are you doing here?", "What is your problem?", "You are crazy... quit stalking me.", "Leave me alone, I just want to be happy. You don't make me happy. (This is the biggest one as it's her current theme to life right now - honestly, I don't know how to answer it.)", "Why are we doing this? Why don't we just get divorced.", "Life is too short to be unhappy.", etc

would be appreciated.

Also,

I have good reason to suspect that her roommate knows all about this whole thing. I don't think my wife could keep it in to herself. If her roommate is there, what do I say to her? At this point, if she's in on it (I believe her roommate is a drama queen, just from what my wife told me about her so far) she's a part of the problem, she's basically an enabler as far as I'm concerned. I already don't like her as she's older than my wife, and divorced (of course, I don't know the situation of her divorce, but I'm sure she's told my wife that men aren't worth the trouble - or whatever - maybe I should stop thinking so much).

Wow, talk about being caught in the act!

Is the other man married?

Sun,
Sorry you're here, but it's the best place to be right now. I'm not an expert, so I'm not going to give too much advice.

I know it doesn't feel like it, but you are lucky that you caught your wife's plans so early. There are a lot of people here who would love to trade places with you.

Read as much as you can here especially about "Plan A" and "Plan B" because you're going to be hearing a lot about those. Start with plan A and absorb everything you can about it.

You should go on the trip to see your wife, but remember to keep your cool. Don't blow up or make a huge scene. Also, read about Love Busters and try your best not to do any.

Play your cards right and you should have a good chance of saving your wife from making a huge mistake. Hopefully, this guy is still a nobody to her and she won't want to destroy your marriage over him.

There will be a lot of people around to help you out soon.

Good luck,
DM

Sorry you are here.

1. NEVER tell her or let her know you are reading her e-mail.
2. She should not get a new cell phone or account, you guys are married, no secrets, and no you are not invading her privacy.

Now, you need a plan, BE STRONG and stick to it.

1. Try all you can to avoid OM to go for the weekend. Find all you can about him, friends/ family/ parents, etc EXPOSE.

2. Tell your wife you're going to spend the weekend with her because you miss her and you guys need to talk.

3. No more talk about OM until you can talk to her personally. She will just keep denieyng and find any excyse to "hate"you and be angry at you and blame you for everything.

4. Plan A

Expect her to tell you:
1. She doesn't love, not for a long time or never loved you.
2. Your M is over, she has never been happy.
3. She found her soulmate.
.... And a lot more of hurtfull and painfull lies that wont make sense for anyone except for her.

FOLLOW all the advise from the experts here.
Read all about MB principals.

Good luck.

This is just the beggining of a long painfull journey. With MB you can recover your M and eventually have an even better relationship.

Q - "Why are you spying on me?"

A - Why do you think I'm spying on you?

Q - "What are you doing here?"

A - Spending time with you. What would you like to do this weekend?

Q - "What is your problem?"

A - I'm not sure.

Q - "You are crazy... quit stalking me."

A - Ok, you can stalk me this weekend.

Q - "Leave me alone, I just want to be happy. You don't make me happy.

A - What makes you happy?

Q - Why don't we just get divorced."

A - Because we took marriage vows.

Q - "Life is too short to be unhappy."

A - Let's make ourselves happy, together.


Avoid talking to the roommate.

Hey there SD,

I did not know that you could swop flight seats. We can't do this in South Africa.

Do it if you can!

sundevil98 - I'm going to assume from your posting for advice here that you DO want to try to save your marriage, so I will offer you some suggestions along that line.

However, having said that, you need a "wake up call" for yourself.

You are approaching this from a way too "analytical" standpoint.

What is involved here are EMOTIONS, not logical thinking.

Having read through your JFO post, a few things are crystal clear at this point.

1. Your wife has already "checked out" of the marriage, due primarily to the separation. That (the separation) was "idiotic" in my humble opinion, but she has been living as a "single woman," with single female roomate(s) most likely.

2. Marriage is nothing like dating or "shacking up," so your previous years with her are essentially meaningless and all you have is some 18 months of being married.

3. Unless you are a really poor husband (i.e. wife abuser, etc.), then THE issue in your marriage right now is a lack of meeting each other's Emotional Needs (not at all surprising since you are both living apart and living as though you ARE single).

4. Your "fight," if you choose to accept the assignment, is going to be "one sided" for quite a while, so you MUST commit to enduring through some very difficult times to come and to the commitment to DO what is necessary even though it seems as though your wife is "doing nothing." Please don't underestimate the emotional stress and toll on yourself of doing this if you choose to attempt to recover your marriage rather than to simply divorce her.

5. BRASS TACKS time.

a. Call the P.O.S. "Other Man" (do NOT email him, he needs to hear your voice, firm, tinged with anger, and he needs to KNOW that you WILL FIGHT HIM with everything at your disposal) immediately and tell him you know about him and your 36 year old wife. Ask him if he knows you and your wife are Married. Ask him if he thinks she is worth his being dragged into divorce court for "alienation of affection" and exposed as being a person of low moral values and a cheater who has no respect for marriage. Put HIM "on the spot" for his "side of the affair." IF he is a [censored], then be ready to expose what he is doing to his parents, work, etc. (so if you don't already know that sort of information, get cracking on getting it NOW).

b. Regardless of outcome, YOU fly down there and you DO NOT spend your time apart from your wife, and I don't care if she IS going "camping" for real. Take some "camping clothes" with you just in case, but I strongly believe her "camp site" is her apartment and that her roommates will be out of town for the holiday.

c. Either she moves back to you or move down to her IMMEDIATELY. Recover is NOT possible while you are separated.

d. Read all you can about Plan A, Emotional Needs, and the types of affairs to gain knowledge about what is going on in her head and what YOU need to be doing to show her the "real you" that is someone she would want to be married to.


6. Get ready for your wife to turn into a SHREW and be VERY hurtful to you, to say all sorts of things intended to get you to "accept" that she doesn't love you or want to be married to you. Given her previous statements about wanting a divorce, be ready to let her say whatever she wants but for you to remain steadfast in fighting to SAVE your marriage. In her mind, the marriage is already over.

7. Document everything, because if it does go to divorce by HER choosing, you will need all of that "stuff."

8. IMMEDIATELY, if not sooner, separate all joint accounts, BEFORE you go down there or have a confrontation with the OM. DO IT TODAY, right now, before you do anything else. You might not believe it, but a Wayward Spouse, can DRAIN every penny you have in order to support her "wayward mindset" and to spend on the affair.

9. IF she resists immediately ending the affair, be prepared to expose her affair to HER parents and ask them for their help in recovering your marriage because YOU, despite what she has been doing, love her and are committed to your marriage (that's why you married her in the first place).

10. There has been no mention in your posts so far of any belief in God, but if there is, talk to your Pastor about the situation as adultery is FORBIDDEN by God.


sundevil98, check MB frequently. There are NO "email alerts." It is YOUR responsibility if you want help.

DO NOT, under any circumstances, allow the OM and your wife to be "alone" for 1 minute. Do NOT reveal your "sources of information," no matter how tempting it is to "Show her HOW you know her lies ARE lies." ALL Adulterers LIE. It is part of the handbook and she has NO problem with keeping secrets from you that ARE immensely important to the marriage.

Lastly, IF you do get a commitment, no matter how reluctant, from her to TRY to recover the marriage, FORGET Individual Counseling and ONLY go to MANDATORY (as a "condition" of recovery) JOINT Marital Counseling, and ONLY with a Counselor who is trained in SAVING marriages. ALL communication to a counselor MUST be heard by both of you, as you will BOTH need to be held accountable for your actions and changes that benefit the MARRIAGE.

Just to "forewarn" you, the "average" Plan A timeframe is 6 months. So be ready for a very rocky road during that time, especially since your wife is already engaged in what is called and "Exit Affair." DO NOT allow it proceed to a Physcial Affair, even if you are "seen" as the "bad guy." Remember, YOU are fighting for your marriage, and YOU are honoring your pledge to your wife to DEFEND her (even when she doesn't want you to defend her from sex with someone else).

Now get going and DO what has been suggested!

You might want to read "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass.

First of all, I love the fact that you got a seat on the plane right next to OM. DO NOT CHANGE IT!! If he doesn't know what you look like, it is a great opportunity. Start out as the annoying "talkative guy".

Make yourself memorable. Wear a loud shirt.

"Hi! How are you. My name's _______. What's yours?"

"Nice to meet you ________. Man, I can't wait to get back to my wife. We've been apart for quite some time now. What brings you to (insert destination)?"

You just might get some info on OM, if you're lucky.

Then go on about what a great gal she is...really ham it up. Make the two of you sound like the perfect couple.


When the flight ends, get off the plane and head straight for your wife. When you get to her, do not let her use her cell phone to warn OM.

The look on OM's face when he gets there should be one for the ages. He'll fear for his life, go completely limp, and realize that he wasted the money for the ticket all at once.

Maybe open the door and just tell him, "I don't want any, thanks" and shut the door in his face.




Oh, and make sure you don't board the plane too soon...if he DOES know what you look like, he'll have the most uncomfortable few hours of his life, and you can berate him for several hours. Just make sure you do it quietly, since we are living in a post 9/11 world.

This is a golden opportunity. If you don't take advantage of it, you will eventually regret it.

GREAT advice Krazy ... I've always respected your "style".

SD,

Seriously, you were born with a pair ... its times like now where they are NEEDED. This guy is attacking your family ... make it clear in no uncertain terms that you will not stand idly by and allow it. Many of the guys here would have killed for just such an opportunity to stop the A BEFORE it turns physical.

You can deal with your WW later, but she also needs to see you willing to fight (and before any of you get your panties in a wad, I don't mean a fist-fight in the concourse) for your family, and she needs to see this KID slink away.

Ughhh...

I'm so conflicted with what to do about the OM right now. I see both sides of confronting him before I leave, and confronting both of them together after I get there.

My gut (which maybe I shouldn't be following?) is telling me to confront them when they see each other, that way, one can't warn the other of any intervention.

To answer some questions:

1) As far as I can tell, he's not married

2) I do know where the OM works (they worked together) and his MySpace friends. I'm worried of exposing him on his MySpace page, would that end up in some sort of legal problems for me? Exposing an embarassing (yet truthful) situation for someone in a public forum could cause some challenges for me in the future, couldn't it? I also know where he lives... I was going to be sneaky and place a call through spoof phone and tell him he won a drawing for some golfballs (as I know he's a big golfer) and we just needed to know where to ship them. But, he sent her an e-mail with confirmation of a ticket purchase (for a concert on the 5th of July) the confirmation had his address, so he gave me that little piece of info.

3) She tells me that she loves me, but that she hasn't been happy for years (this I can understand, as I know our relationship hasn't been the greatest at times). She seems to focus on the negative aspects of our marriage which occur far less frequently than all the good times (at least in my eyes - she seems to think I'm living in a "dreamland").

4) The separation was decided last year - we decided to move to this new place, and we both started looking for jobs. The understanding we had was that whoever got the job first would move first. Fortunately for her, she found a job quickly. I'm still looking, and haven't had many leads. Because of our current financial situation (we are just coming out of a great deal of debt, which has been a huge strain on our relationship since the beginning) we can't afford to live without me working (I make about 2ce as much as she does). We bought our house 2 years ago, and we're now upside down on what we owe (i.e. it's worth less now than when we bought it). The one company that I have a good chance with down there is interested in me, they just can't hire someone right away as they just offered a job to someone else. They would like for me to come in for an interview whenever I can, and I feel that I can get the job, just need some face time. I thought that while I'm down there, it'd be a good time to schedule some face time, but I'm not sure if I'm emotionally prepared for that, along with whatever else the weekend will bring. I will try to schedule an interview later in July however.

5) I'm not the world's greates husband, but I'm not horrible either. We have communication issues that we need to work on, and we both need to learn how to meet each other's emotional needs. I ordered two copies of "His Needs/Her Needs" and had one sent to her, and one sent to me... Hopefully, we can go through the books after I get down there.

6) It's not surprising that I'm really analytical about the whole situation. I'm an engineer, so I tend to solve problems in an analytical fashion... I'm doing my best to understand how she might possibly be feeling in order to help resolve this whole issue. I will be reading more on this site tonight as it's full of good information.

7) What kind of stuff should I be documenting? I've got copies of their e-mails since June 11th. There are very few, but enough for me to know something is going on. I'd like copies of their text messages, but I realize that's probably not easy or even possible to get. Can I obtain them with a court order after any possible divorce action is taken on here part?

8) We have always had separate accounts. So, that's no issue. She has told me on a few occasions that she needs money to pay her rent, groceries, etc. Mainly because she just started her new job, and doesn't get a full paycheck for a few more weeks. I've sent her some money, should I keep sending her money? I'm thinking I will continue to support her, up until July 3rd, depending on what the outcome is from her intervention.

9) Her parents aren't the greatest support system for her. Her mother has all kinds of emotional issues, and just moved in with her aunt and her uncle (re-located from NM to CA). She and her dad are closer, but from what she's told me, he was involved in affairs all throughout the marriage to her mom. They were together 30 years or so, but were always unhappy. This I believe is her biggest influence on this whole situation. My parents were divorced since before I can even remember, so I also do not have the greatest role models for being married. But, I am realizing that it takes work, and I'm willing to work on things to improve our relationship. The sad part is that it took this separation for me (and likely her) to realize that it's not working the way it should - or at least, it can be so much better).

10) She is a strong believer in God. I am too, but we don't go to church. Both of us don't believe in organized religion, but would like to attend worship services at some sort of non-denominational church. Our plan was to find one once we are back together.

I'll keep an eye on this thread... Thanks for all the help so far!

At the risk of opening up another area of "contention," let me ask you WHAT "God" is believed in?

If you are talking about Jesus Christ, I have a LOT to say about that subject, as it relates to marriage and to adultery.

But I will refrain from that sort of discussion unless you want to learn more about it.

Suffice it to say for now that God has COMMANDED (not suggested) that Adultery is forbidden and that NO unrepentant adulterer will be in heaven. Therefore, if there IS a professed belief in Jesus Christ here, then the issue that must FIRST be addressed is "willful disobedience to GOD."


God bless.

Actually if you click on topic options, you can mark this thread as one of your "watched" threads and you WILL get an email everytime someone posts on it.

hmmm...interesting. Perhaps they activated a new feature with the last upgrade.

1) Don't let your WW and OM hook up. I would tell OM in the airport that he isn't going to get to see your WW at all this weekend, so he might as well try to get some money back for his ticket. Tell him that he is not to call your WW and should delete her number and remove her from her myspace page. Be calm but firm and try to intimidate him a little. Are you bigger than him? Could you kick his [censored]? Don't outright threaten him, but make him wonder. Allowing OM and WW to see each other will only strengthen their affair. If he makes it there, your WW is going to try and hang out with him, so your best bet is to intervene with OM first. Will he tip off your WW? Will you not catch them together? Who cares? The goal should be saving your marriage. Your WW is going to be angry with you regardless, and you already know about their affair, so those should not keep you from intervening.

2) You need to live in a same area together as quickly as possible. I realize your financial situation sucks right now, but your situation cannot stand more than another two months apart. It will only get worse in the meantime. She has detached from you, and will not reconnect with you while you are away. Instead she will latch on to OM harder or seek out another OM who lives in town.

3) You need to counsel with someone who uses MB philosophies. If you can afford the Harley's, phone counsel with them. You and your WW don't have very good practices on how to have a good marriage, and you need to learn how to build a strong marriage. Start reading some books by the Harleys' like HNHN and SAA. This will help you understand how to act during this situation.

4) Your WW is an ACTIVE WAYWARD. Do not allow her to manipulate you. She will try and use fear to get you to allow her to continue her affair. Spying on her is not wrong. She is cheating. Don't let her tell you it's wrong. Don't back down. Once she realizes that you won't allow her an OM to continue their relationship, she might let it go. Otherwise, she will try and find ways to keep it going. Your situation will not improve until you live with her, she has had NC w/ OM for several months, and you have been employing MB practices with her for several months as well. Your situation will not improve until then, so you need to do everything in your power to make those things happen quickly.

5) If after the weekend of the 4th she continues to have contact w/ OM, you will need to expose their affair to her parents, family, friends, etc., as well as OM's family, coworkers, and myspace. You will not get in trouble for putting anything true on a public forum. (P.S. One condition that I would have with your WW is that she should no longer have a MySpace page. It is a breeding ground for hooking up.)

Good luck.

I posted this on your first thread, but I'm not sure which one you are checking.

BTW...good idea to stick to one thread from now on. It's less confusing to those following your story.

And Krazy...AWESOME IDEA for the plane ride next to OM. If you can pull it off without tipping your hand you might be able to get some great information from OM.

Here's my two cents:

Don't tell your WW, but fly down the same weekend as OM. Don't talk with OM on the plane.

When you get to the airport, call WW and surprise her.

Then you need to tell her you know about OM. You know that they have talked many times and you know that their discussions have been inappropriate. You know that OM has traveled to see WW this weekend. Don't tell her how you know (she may change passwords and you need to be able to monitor it). BTW, You have EVERY right to read her emails. There are no secrets in a M. See what she says.

Spend the entire weekend with her (thus averting a possible PA).

Depending on her response, you will have a few options.

If she comes clean...then you need to move your butt to the same state and start rebuilding your marriage. A M can survive being broke, but it cannot survive extended separation.

If she denies...then you start Plan A. You still need to move, but your actions will be different. You will need to expose the A to EVERYONE who might have influence over her.

BTW, I'm sure you are thinking about how you cannot afford to move to this other state yet. But you need to really think about whether or not money is more important than your M. It really comes down to that. You can live on very little money if you have to. But you cannot recover your marriage if you are not living together.

I disagree. If OM flies down, he runs the risk of his WW ditching him and staying with OM in a hotel all weekend. It would be better to prevent OM from flying down.

Here's an e-mail she just sent...

"Hey! We might have to e-mail more (he doesn't have access to my hotmail account) or actually just talk on the phone more than texting...given recent events. I don't want anything to be used against me if it comes down to legal proceedings & actual tangible proof of any inpropriety. But, if you can believe it, he texted me this morning about coming to visit & seeing about a job here!!! :-O He's an engineer & obviously void of common sense. Anyway, have a swell rest of your short day!! xoxo"

Very interesting stuff....

Nice to know she's in complete denial about the whole situation. And, basically admitting that something's going on. Obviously, this guy knows that we're married as well.

Is it possible to obtain text records from our own cell phone account?

Unfortunately, she's the main account holder... but I changed the account password last night, so she might have difficulty getting any access to anything.

If I confront the guy at anyplace other than the airport at the destination, I am positive he will call her and let her know I'm coming down, and then what? She will likely take off for the weekend... then what do I do?

At least if I confront them both, at the same time, there's a chance that this guy won't have anything to do with her, and we can start working things out.

It's a good thing I'm on top of her e-mail, it wasn't in her sent message folder very long. I imagine there will be better stuff to come... Hopefully, they spend more time e-mailing as that's my only window at this point.

Ughhh. After reading her e-mail, I can't get any work done...

Should I perhaps slowly expose what I know... Maybe pay a visit to his house? Or, just call him and talk to him? Show up at his office and wait for him to come out? Or.... just wait until the weekend of the 3rd?

This is all that's on my mind right now. I can't wait to meet this little creep... and to see the look on my wife's face when I show up.

Bingo! They both know they're wrong.

Can you find out more intel on OM? I would be armed with all the information you can possibly get your hands on about him before you confront.

Bring a camera phone with you. Who knows when it might come in handy. Ask Runnerboy.

At this point, given the current situation, what's driving you to recover this M? Are there any children, joint property, etc. involved?

BTW - Have you captured any of the OM's responses back to her?