WHY?

hmmm, lemme think; mostly because I did not know THEN what I know NOW, about WH, about myself, about marriage. I also wanted my child to grow up in a loving-two-parent home; that would have required WH to weigh in on the LOVING part--he did not. Also, when Dday occurred, the bottom dropped out, and I was not running on all cylinders. Initially, I was grasping, and I attempted to hold a marriage together with someone whose values did not match mine. After I found MB, I started working the plans--as time passed and failed recoveries occurred, the picture became more clear, more focused.

Had I found MB early on, things may have been different. I may have realized what I was dealing with sooner. There is no barometer good enough to measure who will and who won't make it. Sorry. You can get close with your questions, but it's not a perfect science.

I love my husband; probably always will. Doesn't make him marriage material. It took me a while to figure it out. These things don't happen overnight.

If I were to find myself in a similar situation in the future, I ASSUME I would go straight to Plan B. I cannot say for sure, considering I said I would drop anyone who cheated on me like a hot cake and it didn't happen this time. I hope there never is a next time.

tfkeel, your consencus is the same as many OUTSIDE the MB forums, in real life. Nobody wants to see the BS suffer anymore, so they assume 'kickingthemtothecurb' is the only way. It's not. Plan A, the Plan B. There is relief in that. There is a guide. It doesn't always result in saved marriages, but it gives the BS something to truly grab on to and it doesn't have the BS SUFFERING over and over again at the hands of a WS.

Why stay in the marriage?

I cannot begin to count the reasons. Here are just a few.

1. I love him and he loves me. Despite his affair, the fact remains that he does love me, and we both know that. He never loved the OW, and she never loved him. The affair was not about love.

2. Most affairs, if you really look at them, are not about true love. They are most often about something much different, so if one understands what the affair is about and recognizes the issues, then one understands that the loss of the marriage is not necessarily the solution to the problem.

3. Our marriage was a good marriage prior to the affair. We were friends, lovers, partners. While we had grown somewhat distant, we were still much closer to one another than most of the couples I know who are married 30-plus years. Our distance was out of neglect, ignorance on both our parts of how to keep the spark in things in a long-term marriage, that's all. There was no huge "problem" between us.

4. My personal belief is that a man is not defined by his worst actions. Nor is he defined by his best actions. He is defined by his actions over time - those being what he does day in and day out. This affair certainly was not in character for him.

5. We share a family, a life, goals, a friendship, everything together. I could not for one moment consider my life without him in it, and divorcing him knowing that I loved him and he loved me - only because I was too proud, or too angry, or too unforgiving, seemed to be something I would regret. Sure, I considered it, many times. I wondered if it would be "easier" to recover in terms of having less pain. And then I came to my senses and asked myself, "But who would comfort me? Who would hold me when I cried, tell me he loved me, tell me that I was the only person he ever loved this way? Who would be there all night long for me? Who would be there to grow old with me, know all the old inside jokes, remember the times when this or that happened? Who would understand and accept the scars on my body, the tears in the night, the flabby skin, the wrinkles, the stupid sense of humor?" I know that only he would be there for me.

6. He has always made me feel loved, wanted, protected, happy. He makes me laugh, think, create, wonder, adore. He gave me two beautiful children, and is an outstanding father. He has taken care of me throughout my long illness, and knows that I will have many days ahead that are going to be hard, and stays anyway. He makes music and plays it too loud. His jokes are silly. He pushes me into the pool when I'm not looking. He secretly kisses the cat and the dog.

I love him.


You see, I couldn't just walk away, anymore than he could. Even though he did the most hurtful, stupid, selfish thing in the world, he didn't do it TO ME. He really did this to himself, and it was about himself. He was broken, and needy, and wanting...something...

He broke vows, yes. But he did NOT BREAK US. Breaking us means that we both agree that we are broken.

He and I both knew we were NOT BROKEN.

So, we agreed that we would take this hit right in the face, stand up, dust ourselves off, and start fighting again. Only this time, we would fight for the same team.

And do it right.

So far, the two and a half years of recovery have been one heck of a rollercoaster ride. I will admit there have been some hard times, lots of tears, and some healthy discussions.

But every single day we agree we are not broken.

We have become Marriage Builders. We are building brick by brick. This house is not yet done, but the foundation has been repaired, the roof is on, and we are dried in. We can weather a storm together, and no one can put us asunder. I know this because we will now fight together for this marriage, and we know exactly what it means to us.

We may learn the hard way, but we learn.


I do believe in forgiveness. It is hard to forget - and perhaps forgetting is not a wise thing to do in these cases. Both of us have made valued changes, for ourselves, and for one another. Our view of the future gets a little better every single day. We look forward to our life together, and view it as a precious gift.

So, I guess that's why I chose to stay married to him. It has been worth it.

By the way, our 33rd anniversary is Saturday. He bought me a surprise. I know, I'm not supposed to know!

Schoolbus

tfkeel - if that's not a rhetorical question, I can tell you why.

But that assumes that both of you are believers in Jesus Christ.

If not, then let's just leave it as a rhetorical question.

Schoolbus,

That is one of the most moving love letters I've read. Your husband is a lucy man.

Perhaps you can write some of it in a card for him for your upcoming anniversary. I can't think of a better gift.

CN

It sure was. I have been out of kilter for that last couple of days because of a fight my H and I had...and now I practically have tears running down my face.

It was all beautiful, but 5 and 6 dang near did me in.

What a gift you gave this morning to someone who really needed to read what it means to truly love. thank you.

It is a rhetorical question. And my DW and I are both believers in Jesus Christ. So far, His grace, and His mercy, have allowed us to not have the pain of adultery in our marriage.


And, this is the exact point of the rhetorical question. In my first marriage I had the advice of the church, the pastors, the "christian counselors" - and they were very unified with their advice, that I should save the marriage at all costs.

I tried to obey and follow this advice. But what I failed to recognize was that her affairs were IN CHARACTER for her.

This is the question which must be answered? Is the affair a mistake because your spouse was drawn away by lust? Or is lust his day-by-day definition?

ktfeel - you don't know me, but I consider myself to be a fairly "mature" believer. Not without my faults and certainly not perfect, but with a willingness of FOLLOW the Word of God and attempt to be very discerning between 'human opinion' and the will of God.

Having said that, I take "issue" with either the "advice" of "the church, the pastors, the "christian counselors" advice, or with your interpretation of what they may have said if the following was either what they said or what you "heard."

"that I should save the marriage at all costs."

Nowhere in Scripture does it say to "save a marriage at all costs. That is a misapplication of what Scripture says about divorce and directly contradictory to Scripture, to say nothing of directly contradicting Jesus Himself.

While I don't know the particulars of your first marriage, or even why you are participating on MB, DIVORCE is a legitimate "option" given exclusively BY God TO the faithful spouse in cases of marital unfaithfulness (most commonly adultery, and abandonment by an unbelieving spouse).




This is NOT "THE" question. These are effects, not causes.

tfkeel

Don't really know you and don't think I replied to you before, but you ask some very pointed questions that really do require some answers.

The biggest and most broad is the WHY?

I think that it is extremely hard for any one poster here to answer the "why" question because for each of us it is a very personal question. It requires much diversion and retrospect, so that's what you are going to get.

Here we go! When i was sixteen years old, I went to an amusement part with a group of friends, only because I knew that the girl I was enamored with would be part of that group.

So I did the unthought of. In a quiet moment by the ice cream stand, I kissed her. Great. she was holding and ice cream cone and her hand sort of flopped over and the ice cream smashed all over our feet.

Teriific. All I could think was what an IMBECILE I was. How could I live for 16 years and still be an idiot!!

Later, we picked up a two dollar trinket bracelet, and had our names engragraved on it. "Jerry and Gail", that's all it said. It was enough.

So today, I have a jewelry box in my bedroom. The usual cufflinks, tie clasps, some miltary medals from ages ago, etc.

But tucked away in a little tiny draw of that box is a two dollar trinket from 42 years ago. It reads, "Jerry and Gail".
Yep, one and the same. It has survived all these years and the similes and trials of our lifetime(to use Ace's words).

If burglars were to break into my house, they could have everyting. The TV, stereo, heck they could have the kitchen sink. But if anyone went for that two dollar bracelet, I would fight to the death for it!!

My whole point of this, is that you asked why? It's a good question that deserves an answer. In spite of my digress, I have my answer, I hope you will also find yours.

All Blessings,
Jerry

PS: Ultimately, it's all about what you treasure in life!

I think people generally try to maximize their happiness.

Even with the betrayal, it is possible that recovering your M may result in your maximum happiness.

But it is true that moving on may also result in your maximum happiness.

Since there is no certainty either way, how does one choose between the two? I think most people intuitively realize that while it is an option to attempt recovery and if it fails, then move on (giving them the greatest likelihood of achieving their maximum happiness), it is not a pratical option to move on and if that fails, attempt recovery.

For myself, I don't get hung up on the probabilities on this. They are not really relevent unless time is a major factor.

Take an absurd example. Say there are two locked rooms. One of them has a million dollars in it. I tell you that there is a 99% chance that it is in room 1. I tell you there is a 1% chance it is in room 2, but if room 2 has no money in it, it has a key in it that opens Room 1 that you can use after 1 year. I tell you I will give you a key to whichever room you want but you can only get one (either room 1 or 2) key from me. So its a scenario that gives the person a 100% chance of having a million dollars in a year, so long as they ignore the probabilities. If they can not wait a year, then by all means go with the probabilities.

This doesn't mean I am dismissive of time. Its important and should not be taken for granted. I just feel sometimes people are too quick to protect it at the sake of other important things.

I want the key to room #2. And I want it now!

Time IS of the essence.

This has been a very introspective MB day for me. First I was lead to think very seriously about why I post and now, why forgive and stay in my M.

Schoolbus, your post gave me goosebumps and tears. I hope your DH reads that. I love the written word and would adore having a love letter one tenth that sincere. Shinethrough, just the thought of your feelings about your bracelet perpetuated the boohoo.

Why did I forgive and stay? I believe in the sanctity of marriage and I meant my vows but mainly, I love my H with all my heart and with all my soul. I don't just love the handsome, self assuredness or the wonderful sense of humor. I love the vulnerability of his imperfections and the fact that he loves mine.

And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

God's Blessings,

Say

Is a person defined in total by one characteristic of the self?

Defined only by lust?

I say "no".

Because my FWH acted out of lust at one point in his life, do I then define him - totally define the man - by that act?

No.

Does he act out of lust day-by-day?

No. He is a good man, who did a very stupid and selfish thing. He acted out of thoughtlessness, out of lust, out of character.

I forgive him.


In the case of tfkeel's late wife, I must wonder about resentment remaining. That although 20 years or more may have passed, and the woman has also passed, I wonder if the resentment has not passed?

For me, to have forgiven means you cannot also hold resentment for the act.

Perhaps that is why you find yourself here?

Anger or resentment from long ago?


And no, I do not believe in saving the marriage at ALL costs. Because if my H were to ever have another affair - No, I do not believe I would save the marriage.

But YES, I would forgive him.


I know that this sounds strange, but if you knew my history, you would understand. Those on the boards long enough understand.

It is okay not to save the marriage. That is an individual choice.

But my personal opinion is that failure to forgive will eat you alive from the inside out, fill you with anger, and make you miserable for the rest of your days.

SB

It just occurred to me, when reading all these posts and the outlandish things being proposed to save marriages, and the counseling, and the expense, and the pain, and the sadness, and the trying to forgive and not hold a grudge......and I remembered
the events that happened in my life 22 years ago....

that the only ones actually penalized and the only ones who suffered as a result of the infidelity were me and the wives of the men who had the affairs..... the cheaters just went on with their lives, while we, the cheated-on, had to struggle and work and overcome and get help and get counseling and try to keep ourselves from going insane.....

that the only one who had to struggle and sell everything he owned except the tools of his trade, a $700 Ford station wagon, and 25k of equity in his house and put himself in debt for 8 years following so there could be two liver transplants, and who had to endure the guilt of "pulling the plug" for the woman who told me I was lousy in bed and made cat-calls at the good looking men and groaned at the tv stars and put a pillow over her face when we ML because looking at me "ruined it for her" was me....

that the only one who will never sleep with an open bedroom door or with the television off, and is still afraid of thunder and lightning, and who hasn't worked enough in her life to collect social security, and could not carry a child, and is now 65 years old, is my 2nd wife, the daughter of the man who raped her as a child and sold her to his buddies for sex when she was 10, while he walks free in his pension-driven retirement with perfect health.....

that the one who is dead at 27 from an overdose of drugs administered by a health care worker is my son, while his murderer walks free and is still employable in his field.....

I just decided to make a statement. I'm not taking it, anymore.
I'm not full of hatred, ill will, or resentment. However,
I'M NOT GONNA PAY. Not anymore.....the "system" SUCKS.

Perhaps you are not full of ill-will or hatred.

You are full of resentment. Of pain. Of anger.

Those, you are full of.


And if I were you, I would seek solace and guidance to deal with the pain of your losses. Because the bitterness and pain are not working for you.

I cannot begin to fathom what it must be like to have lost a child. You carry with you the grief of that loss, and I cannot begin to understand that. You also carry the grief of losing your wife, whom you loved. Despite her faults. And she died with you loving her, yet angry with her. That kind of ending must have been very difficult.

I don't know what to say to that. I'm not a professional counselor.

I do know that you say you have a belief in God. You lean on Him. Somewhere in there, then, you must believe in His meaning and purpose in all that He delivers to us in life. That what we are given and what we endure has some purpose. And that turning over your anger to Him, and your desire for justice as well, may help you in your quest for peace and resolution.


One thing I do know is that your first marriage is over. You have a new wife, and I hope that she does not suffer from the anger you still carry from the wrongs your first wife brought upon you. I hope that you see that your second wife is not the same person, and I hope that your second wife is treated fairly - that she isn't held to blame for the sins of your first wife?

SB

bump for Mrs. Z