I understand this forum is for those who want to save their marriage. But, in reading here, I have to say that I fully don't understand why many of those who post here would want to save their marriages?

I do understand forgiveness, and the emotional prison that unforgiveness creates for us.... however, forgiveness really does not depend upon staying together. In fact, forgiveness may indeed be easier if the marriage just ends, because the pain of the things said in "recovery" (....sexual comparisons, "you NEVER met my needs", "you were a lousy spouse"....) are far worse than the fact of the adultery.....

I am a fat, bald, ugly man of 56 years old. Yet, if something were to happen to my marriage and it would be put asunder, I would have no trouble at all to find another Godly woman to be my wife..... in fact, I was widowed when my first wife tragically died of liver failure at 36, and I remarried 11 months later (it was too soon, I know, but I am still married).

I endured my first wife's two (admitted) affairs and paid the price to "keep it together".... that's how I know what happens in adultery.

Now, I read some of the stories on here in UTTER DISBELIEF..... not at what has happened, because I am all too painfully aware of what adulterers do -

but now, after having endured it once....

I JUST CANNOT BELIEVE that anyone in their right mind would want to live one more millisecond with some of these sons of snakes.

I can tell you, for a fact, that if I found out my wife were having an affair, my marriage would be OVER. Turn-out-the- lights, call-the-lawyers, OVER. Reconciliation? FORGET IT....NOT A CHANCE IN HELL....

I am not going through that muck and that counseling and that crap.....not for one day, not for one hour. Adultery PROVES that she DOES NOT HONOR HER VOW BEFORE GOD. I DO NOT WANT TO LIVE with anybody like that....ever again....

I will forgive it, yes, but it will be a lot easier because I will be living again in happiness.... instead of listening to her calling this my fault and telling me I need 9-inch equipment.

So.....if you care to answer..... I would love to know.....WHY?

I'm guessing the same reasons that you endured your wife's two affairs. That, and the hope that the WS's out there have seen the err in their ways, and want to live more morally sound lives....it's just hope, but it's something.

edit:

If my wife told me that my "equipment" wasn't good enough....I would D her. 'cause women before her were quite happy with what I had to offer, and I would not listen to that [censored] from anyone.

Because he was better than the choices he was making and I knew it.

Up until D-day, make that D-moment, BS's fully believe that their WS is faithfully keeping their vows. They may have other problems in the M, and they may even harbour anger or other negative emotions toward their WS, but they still love them. And they have been keeping their vows all this time! Then all of a sudden, one partner in the M changes everything, makes a decision and commits an act without even consulting the other destroying every shred of the BS's current existance. And somehow we are supposed to just say ok now it's over and move on?

I am a BS who chose not to save my M. But it wasn't the adultery that prompted this decision. Even on D-day, at D-moment, I knew I could forgive the A if he would only end it right then and there. Actually, I could forgive it today if he ended it. It was the lying, stealing and all the other crap that goes along with adultery that I couldn't take, won't put up with and will prevent me from ever trusting him again. I realize a lot of it is fog and that one day he'll come out of it, but some of it was so malicious and blatant that it's way too late for me.

But MB does more than just save M's. It saves people. The MB Plans work to recover M's by first recovering those injured by infidelity. It has worked for me. I have done the Plans, I'm in Plan B - the only modification being that there was no letter since there are no conditions he could possibly meet for me to take him back. And I am healing.

I do think it would be helpful for newly betrayed S's to have some sort of guideline as to what circumstances increase or decrease the likelyhood of recovery. But probably this isn't even known.

Would I be as quick to want to forgive adultery in the future? I can't say. Before D-day I didn't think I ever could but it really was one of the first thoughts in my head at the time.

Yep. I recognize that, now, that her saying that was a deliberate attempt on her part to blame me for her cheating and to hurt me. She succeeded.

Looking back, I should have just kicked her to the curb....but I was convinced that God would prefer if I stayed and tried to work it out. But I wasn't looking at her repentance as a factor.

Thinking about it over 22 years, I don't think God was really in it....and I wouldn't have displeased Him by divorcing her on the grounds He allowed. Years ago, when it was happening, I had a hard time believing that He really did allow it.

For some people, a betrayal of the marriage vows is the hill to die on, and they divorce. In fact, most of us thought that before it happened to us. But the majority of these marriages can be saved, and if the marriage was basically a good one before the affair, that is what we encourage.

Besides, there is no hurry. A person can take their time, mull it over, even attempt recovery, and STILL decide to divorce later.

I tried to save my M for my kids primarily... I did not want them to be raised in a broken home. I also knew where I had gone wrong, and I realized it, and tried to fix it, but my exh was already probably in his A already, and he was in love with the other person.

But, then I came to realize that I would go insane if I were to keep trying to work things out. Why was I trying to get someone who obviously did not want to be with ME to want to be with me?? It should not be that way. It took a beating on my self-esteem. Big time.

But, the moment I filed for my D, it was like doves had been released into the air, rainbows were everywhere, my friends rallied around me, we went out, had fun, and I felt FREE. Free from the stress of wondering what was exactly going on.

If I were to remarry, and the person cheated, or treated me with the indifference that my exh did? I would NOT tolerate it again. It would be a hill to die on, immediately, for me. Not that I am in any hurry to get married again...

It seems to me, that this might be general....
(and "repent" means STOPPED, not just an apology)

recoveries "more likely":

There are no previous adulteries IN ANY MARRIAGE of the WS

WS confesses and repents prior to being "found out" - OR
IMMEDIATELY when "found out"

Affair is brief, like a "one-night-stand", an act of passion

"good" marriage prior to the affair


recoveries "more unlikely":

There are previous adulteries IN ANY MARRIAGE of the WS

WS continues the affair after being "found out"

WS continues to lie and release the truth slowly and only with
repeated questioning

WS blames the BS for his actions

poor marriage prior to the affair

Time for a name change?

SadNoMo?

If only it were this simple. What if the situation went like this?......


It seems to me, that this might be general....
(and "repent" means STOPPED, not just an apology)

recoveries "more likely":

There are no previous adulteries IN ANY MARRIAGE of the WS...YES

WS confesses and repents prior to being "found out" - OR
IMMEDIATELY when "found out".....NO
Affair is brief, like a "one-night-stand", an act of passion...NO

"good" marriage prior to the affair...YES


recoveries "more unlikely":

There are previous adulteries IN ANY MARRIAGE of the WS...NO

WS continues the affair after being "found out"...YES

WS continues to lie and release the truth slowly and only with
repeated questioning...YES

WS blames the BS for his actions...Sometimes...in the heat of arguments

poor marriage prior to the affair...NO

I disagree with the above. I would also venture to say MANY VETS around here would disagree also.

Reason being???

An Affair is an addiction. An addict will say and do ANYTHING to get their fix. Most of the time, when an affair is discovered by a BS, they are not ready to give up that addiction.

Also, most M were poor before the A, otherwise why would affairs happen in the first place?????

WS blaming BS for his actions??? FOGSPEAK....diversion of blame. WS need to blame anything and everything for their actions or face the truth about THEMSELVES. Most addicts cannot do this.

BUT it comes in time......

Now, for MY answer to your original question.....

I stayed because I love my HUSBAND.....

I have always believed in him...I have always believed him to be a good man, even when he made bad decisions (and this affair wasn't the first one....), I have nearly half my life vested with him, we have 3 children....and most importantly.....

I knew I had made major mistakes in this M, mistakes that contributed to the breakdown of our M before the Affair. I needed to correct them and try this one last time before I gave up, so I could live with MYSELF......


Now, let me ask YOU a question.....

Why are you still holding on to the anger of your deceased wife's affair 20 yrs later?

not2fun

Thanks for bringing this up tfkeel.

I am in agreement with Tabby and Sadmo.

I could have forgiven, too. Getting past the lying, gaslighting and demonizing was the hardest for me.

Charlotte

P.S.) But the weight lifted off of my shoulders the day I exposed to OWH and others, not when I had to file. Getting their ugly secret out of MY pantry was a HUGE thing.

I would add to the likely to recover column....That the wrong spouse take the lead on the recovery and not be forced to do so makes it more likely to recover. In my case my wife immediately did all the work. Of course that didn't stop the 2nd affair, but then we finally went to counceling and worked out her boundary issues. Since then all has been good.

Introvert,

The word "repent" actually means "to think again" or "to have a second thought" as in, "on second thought..."

It implies not merely a change in action, but a change in attitude. While often described as a turning around, it really means to modify the way you think in order to think a different way in the future. It is more a "buy in" than an "opt out." Once repentance has gained hold, a person thinks, reacts, acts and chooses differently than they once did.

It could easily be translated as "change your mind" since it requires a transformation in thinking to truly achieve.

And true repentance is exactly what it takes for a WS to become a true FWS. Not just a change in actions or reactions, but in thinking as well.

As for the rest of it. As you already alluded to, it isn't really that simple is it? If all we had to do was answer a few questions about the marriage and know if it was worth trying to save, we could save a lot of time and energy that could be better spent on personal growth and healing.

But each BS has to decide for him or herself how much effort they are willing to put into recovery and reconciliation. Some of us are stimulated to not only accept a challenge but to be more willing to accept it if it is a bigger challenge. Others might decide that the marriage was not worth as much to them before the affair and therefore can't see putting forth the effort to get it back.

But once you make the decision to attempt saving the marriage, give it your best effort in order to have the greatest chance of success. Doing everything that you can to end the affair is more likely than only doing a part of it. And the same applies to recovery.

If we could answer a survey and know the outcome, we wouldn't even need an election to decide who will be our next president...

Mark

So, by tfkeel's just-thought-of, not-a-professional-counselor, not-a-psychologist "scorecard", your marriage has a -2 chance.

I'll bet Dr. Harley or someone of his experience and knowledge could set up a "scorecard" with proper "weights" to the questions and it would come out quite good.

On this, my "score" was a -3. My marriage "recovered" in the sense that it stayed together, but it was bad before the affair, worse afterward, and completely sexless within two months after the "recovery", with two exceptional events.

I have been thinking on this a lot lately. What makes a WS a FWS??

And wouldn't ya know it, the good and knowledgeable Mark would be the one to answer it for me.....

Thanks Mark (again...)

not2fun

It seems to me, that this might be general....
(and "repent" means STOPPED, not just an apology)

recoveries "more likely":

There are no previous adulteries IN ANY MARRIAGE of the WS YES

WS confesses and repents prior to being "found out" - OR
IMMEDIATELY when "found out" - NO!

Affair is brief, like a "one-night-stand", an act of passion - NO!

"good" marriage prior to the affair YES


recoveries "more unlikely":

There are previous adulteries IN ANY MARRIAGE of the WS NO

WS continues the affair after being "found out" YES!

WS continues to lie and release the truth slowly and only with
repeated questioning YES!

WS blames the BS for his actions YES!

poor marriage prior to the affair YES


AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!

It may be a little general but it's actually not a bad list. The only trouble is that for a brand newly BS, they may not know the answers to many of them. There is that stage where you actually believe their lies to be true and one of those lies could be that it is a one night stand vs. a long term A. Also, the BS might believe they did have a good M prior to the A, only to discover later, while looking for evidence of the A, that it was not. That's essentially what happened to me.

I'm not angry at all. Not in years. I hardly ever even think about it, anymore, although I haven't forgotten it....

It's just that over the years, I learned something that I didn't know, then....and that I didn't believe, then....

I AM WORTH SOMETHING. I am an upright, believing, hard-working, sacrificing, faithful husband. A PROMISE-KEEPER. My VOWS mean something to me. My word is precious, my integrity is all that I have....

I DO NOT DESERVE a wife whose vows mean nothing and whose integrity is sold out to some "addiction" and whose mouth is full of "fogspeak" and arrogance....

AND I AM NOT GOING TO ACCEPT IT. Ever again....

What's the reason?

Simply I love the M I married, I believe that that man still exists somewhere deep down, I made a commitment until the end, and I know that I didn't give my M the best I had to offer, well I actually did at the time, but I have learned so much and just want the chance to make it up to him.

I like so many others truly grasp the addiction aspect and I understand that WH is just a sick person.

But more than anything else - G-d is leading me on this journey and I have come to have FAITH in this and just keep walking....