I don't have a pay off - being affectionate to him gives him the payoff. There is no gain for me. It's just another one of the many things on the list of that I have to change, or that needs fixing, or that I did not do and must do for recovery.

You can if you made a decision to.
Is it hard? heck ya.
You have to start somewhere, and nowhere is going to be easy.

Yes, but doesn't he see that the fact that he is sitting there watching myspace isn't exactly the kind of man I respect and the kind of man that I want to be sexually attracted to because men that watch Myspace aren't exactly bleeding "hey look at me I am a man that is a stud and I am sexy". Does that make sense? I don't know how to put it.

Yea, it is all chemicals. Oxytocin is for your children AND your husband as your love matures. Infatuation is based on projected feelings and real love, oxytocin based, has a foundation of real knowledge. Infatuations CAN turn into real love with time and the meeting of needs. But the infatuation always turns off because it is based on PEA, which eventually just dies a natural death. This is just the way it works as a cosmic joke, or as a precursor to enabling the race because PEA makes us go out of our minds. How else can you explain the nutty stuff we do when infatuated? Oxytocin is a lasting thing.

Affairs are NOT the real thing. In part because infidelity is based on lies, deceit, secrecy and adultery. Now isn't that a prescription for failure? Of course it is. In the back of EVERY wayward's mind is the often suppressed thought that if they will cheat WITH you, they will cheat ON you. How do you build a lasting love on a foundation of temporary insanity, which is otherwise known as an infatuation. Ever notice how a crush goes away in time? Of course you have.

PEA is a meth like chemical in the way it attaches to brain cells, giving off a sense of euphoria. Look up Al Turtle's site, he has some great explanations of phenylethylalamine, not to be confused by a related chemical found in chocolate.

How the heck do you defend against a meth like and naturally occurring substance that popular FICTION defines as love? Yea, hard to do, ignorance reigns and legs spread. The good thing about PEA is that it can be the precursor of a good relationship or not as discovery happens. After all, infatuation between two available (not married) people is often used as a process of discovery that tempers the infatuation, something that is seldom found within the context of adultery, where you hear the "Soulmate" line over and over as polish on the cowflop of the emotional train wreck that almost always happens to all involved, like kids, spouses, parents and a host of unimportant bit players in the euphoria of temporary insanity.

There are a number of cures, time being the most common. You can also do an infatuation transfer, admiring the guy who stood by you instead of kicking you to the curb. After all, a real man doesn't screw married women, right? Er, should I say that a real man you might want for a lasting mate doesn't? See, guys know through conventional wisdom that any woman can be had by the right guy, right place, right time thing. We understand PEA without knowing the basis. So guys KNOW that women are vulnerable to the right pitch at the right time. Well some women who have grown through the thrill stage as they journey to being a grownup as exceptions. Guys with a solid honor system look DOWN on guys who screw the vulnerable, especially married ones.

The learning process is called "Pay attention to consequences."

You can't fix stupid, nor can you fix those who are terminally eat up with entitlement (self love) complex. But you can learn your way out of ignorance and grow to be a real person with a code of honor and all that humanity stuff. It is work and work without excuses if you are gonna get there. Women can internalize the changes needed better than men. So get to work already

Larry

wow.

...but, woman who spend their spare time on Myspace have admirable qualities?

MEDC:

YOu might want to explain the wow. Rain is literal and might not get it

Larry

Yeah...women put cute little pics of their family and their kids and share stories about vacations, work, recipes, etc. I didn't...mine really never changed but there are a lot of women who have put a lot of fun stuff on there. It is nice and somehwat encouraging to see your high school mates with their families...sharing the day to day's of what it's like to be married and in your 30's.

Just for a minute, would you do me a favor, and stand back and look at this statement? Pretend you had a best friend who said that, or a daughter. Does that sound like an admirable trait to you? I mean the trait of expecting a man to be 'all that' for you or else you won't give him the time of day?

Where does that fit into a healthy relationship? That may be what OM gave you - that sexy studly act, which in itself translates into 'selfish user of women' - but seriously, can you imagine being married to a man who is so full of himself that all he cares about is exuding sexiness and getting chicks to notice his hotness and getting men to wish they were him? What does that man do when he's with his wife who's bending over the toilet puking her guts out from the flu and needs him to stroke her back? When his 3 year old has chicken pox and can't quit crying? When he needs to sell his Porsche and get a VW so his 18 year old can afford college?

Do you see someone like OM doing any of that? Any of it?

What about your H? I do.

To me, THAT is sexy.

Is your mom around? Ask her about it.

They may be but personality is not.

Entitlement is all about the thrill. Responsibility is all about doing what is the right thing. Responsibility carries its own thrill if you can tune into it. Thrill is what teenage females look for in males. Grownup women know better. Don't they?

Larry

Rain,

There is no main currently on this earth who has the ability to love you as deeply and as well as your H.

You have a child.

You have history.

You have dealt with pain and fear together (gambling and infidelity)

There is so much more.

NO ONE can share with you like your H. NO ONE "gets you" like your H.

His self-esteem has been knocked to the ground with the infidelity issues. How can you expect him to be "all that" right now.

He's trying to play with the cards you dealt him.

Geesh, give him a break.

You really need to find some empathy for those triggers he is having.

He is AFRAID, rain.

AFRAID that you will run off with OM and leave him to once again clean up your mess, this time alone.

FEAR is a monster in a BS'. Give him a chance to slay that monster. He can do it. But the sneakier you are and the more entitled you act, the bigger that monster becomes to him.

Fox

I just have to tell you....I cringed when I read this.

Questioned myself on what I think of your motives.

Wondered if I can really be of any help to you.

I'll give you points for being honest, at least.


Fox

Rain -
I couldn't help but notice that admiration is in the top three for the both of you.

What are three things that you think are admirable about yourself?
What are three things that you find admirable about Dude?

You want/need to be admired - if Dude is to meet that need, he needs to know in what areas you feel fullfilled by it.

Dude wants/needs to be admired - what are the ways that you see yourself meeting this need for him?

It's not a trick question or anything. :-)

To OM it was no act...I understand what you are saying...really I do. Fact is, OM wasn't that kind of guy. He did not think he was sexy. He just was. He wasn't full of himself. He is not rich either. I have seen him with his kids and he is very caring and compassionate. So while I truly understand what you are saying, you are wrong and this is not me in denial. I do know that my H DOES have the upper hand in those types of situations just because I know he is wonderful from first hand experience.

are you saying that he is looking at Myspace is unsexy or that because he was checking in on you it is unsexy?
(I want to be clear I understand before I give any response to this.) Thanks.

Rain, I challange you to find the foggy statement in here before it is called out on you....

Edit:

How caring and compassionate of a man is he?
Well, he betrayed his wife and his kids, knowing his actions would hurt and crush them...
He got involved with a married woman, knowing that it would crush and destroy her family...
He continued a relationship with you - knowing full well that you would be hurt and crushed in the end....

Now tell me rain... how caring and compassionate of a man is he.

I know that it hurts to read that, because I could make the same arguement for you Rain... how caring and compassionate have you been, are you being?

Rain - how do you feel about yourself knowing what you have done to your family and yourself. Those same facts and feelings apply to OM. You two are no different in your actions, deceptions and betrayal.

Just food for thought.

I found it.

oh yeah...he was Prince Charming and dad of the year all rolled into one. Oh wait...but that's right ...he is a man that helped your degrade yourself...like any true gentleman would. He is a man that stole time and care away from your family...like any true "man" would.

Rain...he is a dirt bag...just like every other WS. Your awarding him the "wayward of the year" award just means that you are too foggy...STILL...and that he is a bigger player than I thought.

Yeah..he REALLY loved you...I'm sure.

You broke him down and now you step on him when he is on the ground and attack his manliness.

Why don't you go break someone else down and give the guy a chance to rebuild himself.

Oh.....your doing that already, except giving him the chance to rebuild himself without the burden you have become.