My wife told me a month ago that she does not love me and is going to get a divorce. I am actively trying to change her mind by trying to do plan A and meet her EN. My question is it is right and do you think there is any gain in using my 16 year old son to try to get her to change her mind? My wife and I have agreed to not tell the kids until we are able to financially seperate witch should take 6 to 12 months. SHe is ice cold to any talk of working on our marriage and I dont see a lot of hope that this will change. I was thinking that maybe if my son got angry with her she might decide to give us a try.

Why does she want a divorce? What has caused her to fall out of love and what is she willing to do to turn that around?

Did she say "I love you but I am not in love with you?"

Sort of. She said she loved me as the father of her kids but she did not feel anything towards me. We have been married for 18 years together since we were 17. We are both turning 40 this year and have three kids. I have manipulated over the years to get my way when it comes to her friends what she wearsm, and for sex. She resents this terribly. I know what I am asking is trying to manipulate the situation but I just want her to think about what she is doing to the kids and our family.

Do some snooping to see if she is having an affair. Also, read everything you can on this site. There is some great information that could help.

I have read a lot on this site and several other books and websites. I also have done some snooping. She erases all her in and out texts but when I look online I dont see any long conversations with anyone I dont know and no texts from anyone I dont know.

Ham, you should have input on her friends and what she wears, you are her husband. A loving wife doesn't do stuff that upsets her H.

I suspect she is having an affair, ham. I would flesh this out even if you have to hire a P.I. or even follow her yourself. This has all the signs of an affair. That does not mean this is hopeless, we can help you turn this around.

But, get to snooping, and DON'T ASK HER if she is having an affair. She will just lie. Find out on your own and come here before you do anything. I would also suggest you post in General Questions 11 where you can get help for infidelity. You are far from divorce.

I'd be very suspicious if she's erasing texts. Get one of those keyloggers - do a search here for snooping101 or something like that.

Some of the books that will probably be most helpful to you include His Needs Her Needs and Surviving and Affair. Even if you don't have proof of an affair yet, you should read this so you will know better what the signs are. It does sound very suspicious.

If there's no affair, there is still plenty you can do. Don't give up yet.

Do not use your son as a weapon against her. She will only resent you for that. If he gets upset with her, that's fine, but don't be the man behind the curtain.

So you think she fell out of love with you because of your lack of respect to her and your disrespectful judgments and your manipulation, and you are thinking that more manipulation will help solve that?

I agree Wanna....it's dishonest...stop doing things that are destructive and hurtful....try to earn some credibility by eliminating the manipulative behaviors and work toward a partnership where EN's can be identified and addressed...Direct, honest, straightforward...

I'm curious...

How exactly did you control what she wore?
What did you dictate as far as her having friends?


Also,
It doesn't seem like it's common on this site, but I tend to delete cookies, history, and temp files before I log off the net. It helps to keep the comp running much better. I didn't used to until my IT guy griped me out for keeping things not cleared out on the company computer and said I should do the same at home.

First, never "use" the kids when attempting to resolve marital issues.

Second, you made an agreement with your wife NOT to tell them.

Now on the other hand, a 16 year old doesn't necessarily deserve to get blind sided with a mom/dad separation either.

I would suggest that you re-approach the issue with your wife and take your sons feelings and maturity level into account. I think the two of you could come up with a way to break the news without "using" anyone.

I'm not sure how much damage you've done in your marriage over the years with your admitted manipulation/control tactics. You certainly aren't going to help your cause by sickin' your son on her. It's just more of the same type of behavior that she is likely running away from.

Definitely rule out an affair. That's easy enough to do.

If you are attempting any sort of a Plan A then you know that you must eliminate love busters (LB's). Manipulation/control tactics should be eliminated. I have a feeling that's going to be easier said than done.

She's having an affair. Bust it open and you might have a chance.

Try a keyboard monitor program. They are free and sit in the background. When you pull them up you see every keystroke.

I busted my wife last week with one.

Prepare to be hurt :-/

I am going to be upfront with my question(s)?

Be honest...

With the control and manipulation...have you...

Verbally abused her?

Emotionally abused her?

Sexually abused her?

Physically abused?

I ask because control and manipulation can sometimes go hand in hand with any of these other abuse areas.

I don't think she is necessarily having an affair.

She might be strong enough to make a move to remove herself from an abusive situation.

She was 17 when she entered this relationship with you and she didn't know any better.

Twenty-three years later, she knows better.

jmho

committed

I dunno. If he's done it through DJ and manipulation for quite some time, she could interpret anything he says in this area as a DJ, even if it isn't. As well, I think these are two big areas where one feels accepted for who they are with their spouse.

Just my opinion, but I'd concentrate more on telling her what you do like instead of what you don't like in these areas. Trust her to pick up on things and understand that she won't get praise for what you don't care for. Then it's on her to decide what she wants to do, without her feeling that you just don't like anything about her.


And apologize for some of those glaring DJs that you know are still bothering her. For example, years ago, I told my wife I didn't like capri pants (or whatever they're called) very much. That stuck with her and she felt bad about herself if she ever wore them around me. A couple months ago, while we were separated, she wore these really cute capri camo pants, and I let her know that they looked good and apologized for making such a blanket statement previously, as I was obviously wrong.

Sorry I have not posted lately. On August 17 my wife left. Although I was trying plan A, I still was hoping by any means whe would change her mind. Things had getting worse, where she had in the first couple of weeks after telling me she wanted a divorce allowed me to hold her and occasionally hug and kiss her she had now gotten to where if I happened to place my hand on her back she would ask me what I thought I was doing. Life for me was getting worse by the day. In the mean time my son did figure things out and confronted his mother and she would get upset and make statements of giving up but then later defiantely say she did not care she was still getting a divorce. We were still trying to pretend around evryone else that nothing was going on. This is very hard for me to do. Then after sleeping on the floor of our room for two weeks so the kids would not know I had had enough and I stupidly decided to tell her I wasnt sleeping on the floor and one thing led to the next and I got angry said I was not getting a divorce and basically scared her at least that is what she said. I am not happy about my actions this has never happened before.
ANyway she now has something she can point to and focus on as a reason for divorce. I am fast coming to the conclusion that there is no hope.
She is now blaming me for everything for the last 22 years. Each day when we talk she is veryu angry with me and threatenening about taking the kids taking our money and telling the kids all the things that I have (supposedly) done over the years. Yesterday on the first day of school because she was angry with me told the kids that i sexually assaulted her over the years and specifically to our 12 year old that I had raped her. I am not sure that life can get any worse.

I'm going to start over, because after I read my post, it sounded rather harsh.

I think you and your wife are in an unhealthy relationship and that counseling is probably your first order of business - both individual as well as marriage counseling.

I see a few things in your posts that would concern me.

One is that your subject line suggests you cannot yet differentiate what manipulative behavior is. This is one of the reasons why I suggested IC for you.

The other matter is that your wife seems to have resorted to hurting you through the children, talking to your prepubescent daughter as though she is a girlfriend or a pawn/conduit to get at you in some sort of painful way. This could indicate that she doesn't feel like you hear her but knows she can get you to listen through the kids. The main concern there is that she isn't recognizing that doing that could hurt them, make them feel responsible, helpless, and depressed.

There is a lot of good information on the internet associated with a dude by the name of Al Turtle. If you do some lookups on him, his information can be very helpful in teaching a person how to validate and mirror a person's words so that they feel heard but also to assure them that you comprehended what they said.

Validating is acknowledging another person's feelings.
Mirroring is paraphrasing what they said, to them, to make sure you understood what they meant.

So...something like this:

"I can see you're very upset about this. So what you're saying is that you're feeling very depressed because you feel I've been ignoring you for years?"

Perhaps if you could begin to validate and mirror, she would understand that she does not need to use the children to get her point across.

Your best bet is for the both of you to handle your marital issues without involving your children. They are not counselors and are not mature enough to be able to help you. A very sensitive child may make the attempt but will likely not come out unscathed. She is likely to grow up resenting being forced into the role of pawn and/or conduit, and it's a bad choice to continue involving her in your problems.

If anything, a child should be protected during turbulent times in her parents' marriage, not be forced into being a messenger or some sort of sounding board. Deep down, I suspect your wife knows this, but she is under a lot of stress and may need some time away from the kids and/or a kind-hearted reminder, preferably from someone whose esteem she still values, like a parent.

Since last tuesdays events I have decided that I will stop trying to "make" her come home. I will in every posssible situation be nice to her. She is insisting to come over everyday to make supper and to other household chores. She gets off work @4 and gets our 9 DD and comes to the house. I get home @6 and by then our 12 DS is home and we have supper. I try to make small talk, compliment her cooking thank her for doing it and so on. I ask her what I should get out for dinner for the next night. I ask her to help with the kids and thier schedules. There are two reasons for this, first she insists that she wants to do these things for the kids and "has always" done them and second I want to be nice to her. Plus arguing with her does not make my life better. I obviousely still want her to come home and I love her more than anything. But I am running out of hope.

i would love to hear the OP answer these questions.

maybe, if she is being abused this way, she is sick of the crap and is finally waking up.

you said that she thinks you sexually abused her. did you? if you wanted sex and she didnt, what was your reaction to that?

please answer these above questions..

yes-you admit you are a manipulator andcontrolling. if you use your kids against her that is emotional abuse-not only towards her, but your kids as well.