I agree with SB. I am in that situation now of ME bringing it up all the time, ME needing to talk, ME needing to release anger, and just needing him to aknowledge the extent of my feelings. He never shows emotion and never brings it up, never. He said he just feels so bad for what he's done to me, he's made such a big mess, he doesn't want to talk about it.

So, what usually happens I think when the WS won't talk and the BS NEEDS to talk, as you said the anger builds, so when it DOES come out it's rage and the WS never wants to talk again.

My "stage" now is past the crying all the time, I'm in full blown anger, not taking any more crap stage. I did just get some mild medication from my doctor to "soothe me" sometimes when I start to get out of control anger.

I never in a million years thought I would be here. Gosh, it's still hard to believe but it's reality and I have to be a big girls and deal with it. Lots and Lots of people living the same thing I am right now, or have lived it. It's nice to hear the survival stories. It's encouraging.

SB says it so much better than I did. Wanted to make you read it again.

Are you going to yoga this week?

SB - you are right I recoganize that I am walking up the path of Plan FU. UNfortunately deep down inside I dont want a D , I dont want a new start with a new person. I am happy with who my H is as a person and I love him enough to keep it going. At the same time I cannot allow myself to
1) continue to live in pain
2) live in pain from his betrayal
3) accept to do alll the work in this moving forward alone.

The words below accurately describe my stich:


I know he is really trying in his own way and I am sad for him everytime that I have to give him feedback that syas its not working for me. That I dont feel loved. Its hurts him most when I say that. BUt I honeslty do no say it to hurt him, I say it cause its true. I want him to like yous aid :love meeasy" nit wlak on egg shells or go mechanically go thru undesirable tasks on my EN sheet. Giving up what he wants to do because ther are many things I want him to do is not a good plan, and yet he thinks thats the only plan and so he picks what he thinks is important to me tries to show me love and its not working.

For example a big issue that stuck with me was STD testing. A couple of days after D day I spoke with H wabout having used protcetion and the response was no. I immediatley requsted that he be tested for STD's. I understand that its a tough thing to go thru with having to visit a dog and get presc etc. DH said he would go do it to satisfy me even though he was comfortable enough that there was no need, because OW is a "nice" person. He sais he would circumvent doc and pay out of pocket. Well that annoys me but I let it pass. 2 MONTHS go by, nothing excpet occassional talk of it from him when ever I say I am sad and dont feel like he prioritises me. About a month ago I went to my OBGYN and got a presc. to get myself tested. Somehow H an I both eneded up going to the lab on the same day, he for his annual physical bloodwork and I for my STDs. I did not "nag" about him getting his he was fully aware that I was getting mine. When we did ENQ's sharing 3 weeks ago I remineded again him that I would love it if he would get tested.

Finally 2 weeks ago he went to his Doc and obtained a prescription. He had a tough visit as the doc wanted to know why so that it would covered by insurance, he had to explain to the nurse and doc why. Nedless to say he was havign a really bad time when he came back. I hugged him and let him know that I empathiused with his pain since I had to go thru the testing myself. ( I must say my doc did not ask reasons why and I was thankful for that). No he has the presc. That was a week and a half ago and so my felling in this matter that I am important enough for him to go do this. How many ways and time do I need to communicate to him that this important to me. After which I have no choice but to belive that he does not do it beacuse what I need from him he doe snot CARE about. He cares more about what it requires of him to do and not so much the value of it to me.
In the menwhile I have not witheld any SF from him in order to faciliate this so he has nothing to loose. I on the other hand feel like the testing is both fro my protection and his own. I already am tested so its important for me that be tested so that we know he is all clear too.

Now I have a melt down 2 days ago and the melt down was less along the lines of I am threating to D you. it was more along the lines of I am heartbroken. I feel like humpty dumpty and nothgin can put me back to gether again. Part of the pain I was expression was not so much the A ( althought that cant alotogteher be removed) but rather the staus of our present relationship.
I cried and babbled like a broken fool bore my heart out and pain again. I felt stupid and ashamed yesterday morning for having fallen apart so badly in from of H. I felt so raw and open and exposed . I know he feels remorse and pain for what he did. My goal in talking to him about my pain is not to REMIND him of what he did but simply to express that I am broken in a million pieces and I dont know how to mend my heart.
Unfortunatley there is not way to seperate the existance of my pain and my communication of it to him without he making the immediate connection that he is the cause of it.
Anyway after massive hysterical sad breakdown day monday night and needing a melatonin to fall asleep that night. DH woke up the next morning and went to the lab nd got his blood work done. Now awaiting results. I am glad that that issue is put to bed.
I know you will be angry at me for saying this, but after 3 months and 13 days of several "talks" about this if this is the battle I have to fight for each and every thing that is important to me I wonder if I have it im me to keep going for much longer.
Either I will just stop fighting for it and let things be and accept what ever crumbs I get or I will snap and have breakdown after breakdown one of which will be the point of no return.
Something has to change, that is either my expectations and wants or his effort and actions.

P.S. - I am sorry this post is so long.

wmf,

Here is the meat of the next talk.


You tell him you have some basic points to cover, which are really related. The points will take five minutes, after which he has the floor, and you will expect him to respond to your questions. Prepare your questions, and LISTEN.

Points you brought up in your post:
1. The first point you need to tell him is that you have reached a point where you need him to understand that you are very tired emotionally, and that at the same time that you do NOT WANT TO GIVE UP. You also need to let him know that you need his help, and that the marathons do not work for you - and you know they don't work for him. Tell him that this is the first talk that will NOT be a marathon, and he can look forward to this change.

Stick with that, and do not make it a marathon. You will thank yourself and want to kiss me on the lips later.

Get up, and tell him that whether or not you are done, in 30 minutes the stove timer will go off - you are setting it right now (and go set it). You will STOP the session then, and just sit with what you have, go get some ice cream or cookies and tea or whatever, and BE DONE. Keep your word. Just let it be, and take the information you have and think on it. 30 minutes' worth is a lot - trust me!!!!!!!

2. Tell him that you need his help, and that one of the problems you find yourself thinking about is that you come back to the issue of needing different kinds of help at different times. One of the kinds of help you need is his input, which means talking, and while it is hard for him to do that, limiting the talks to 30 minutes will help both of you and you will mostly listen. Tell him you are learning new rules, and you will get better and better. Tell him today is the first time, so he needs to give you a break!

3. Now, Tell him the meat of the talk is really going to only focus on one thing at a time, so you don't get off track and all emotional. It really helps everyone if the emotions are in check, and the time limit helps do that, too. Here's the meat:

You have reached a point in recovery where you sense that some requests you have made of him (such as the bloodwork) are put off and are done only after you make a humiliating display of pain and crying, and total breakdown. This is something that makes you very ashamed of yourself and fearful of loss of the marriage, and something you do not like when it happens. On reflection, it seems like the communication between the two of you regarding things that are very important to you is not making the connection somehow.

One thing that you have decided to do to help is to make changes to the MARATHONS!!!!!!

And one thing he can help you with is................the connection part on his side.

The bloodwork being the example here - he knew you wanted it done, and he did agree, yet it was put off until your emotional level was overblown.

Question: Does he have any ideas of how the two of you can better the communication regarding these issues, and can he offer concrete ways for you to let him know how to do it? Ask him to use the bloodwork as an example, and to tell you exactly what you SHOULD have done, what might have helped to pre-empt the problems that occurred in this situation.

Question: Can you tell me my strengths in communicating with you?

Question: Tell me three weaknesses in communicating with you.

LISTEN. LISTEN LISTEN LISTEN LISTEN


Do not get drawn into his "well, it's already done so it doesn't matter now" response. If he says this, then you say, "Yes, it is done. I would like for you to use this situation as an example for me to learn by, so that I do not experience the problem I had in the future. I feel that perhaps we can grow together, and one of the things I need your help with is to tell me how to better my abilities in this area, and the bloodwork is the most recent and prime example on our minds. Please use this example and tell me what went wrong so I can improve. I do not want to break down into hysterics over anything again, and you KNOW you don't want that either. Help me, and help us. Tell me. I can and will improve if you tell me." Be a broken record and do not back down.

Stay on LISTENING. Don't jump in when he finishes a sentence. WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT

DID I SAY WAIT?

Because the waiting after he "finishes" allows him to fill that quietness..........after you wait about 10 or 15 seconds.......he WILL fill it.........he may say, "I'm done", and you say,

I'm thinking about your point - can you tell me more about what you mean by that? It is very important and thought provoking to me.......

OR

more likely

He will hear crickets long before the 10 or 15 seconds are up and start talking some more. Which is where the GOLD is. This is where the true thoughts, the deep thoughts, come in. People bring in the deeper ideas here, the ones they aren't usually willing to share when they are given the extra quiet time to fill.

So give it to him.


Wait wait wait for it.

When the timer goes off, kiss him, thank him, and tell him "we're done, wasn't that better than the crying hysterical stuff?" - because it will be!

Patience
One topic
Calmness
Preparation
Use the body language tips
Set the timer

I will GUARANTEE that he will be surprised that he talked to you and he will actually tell you things you didn't know before. And they will be good.

And you will be able to stop the marathons, because this will make you want to.


OH - AND IF YOU GET DONE BEFORE THE TIMER GOES OFF (WHICH DOES HAPPEN!), KISS HIM AND THANK HIM, AND GO GET YOUR ICE CREAM.

SB

I love smart ladies!

I've got a fairly good idea what you may do for a living SB but do you mind sharing?

I think we need someone like you in all of our relationships, personal and work.



WMF, while it might not feel like it. Things are moving in the right direction. Learning from others and not repeating others mistakes (one way I define success) will help with the POSITIVE changes.

I can't tell you enough how wonderful your M will be.

I sent my yoga dedication out to. Perhaps that positive energy will help you a little too.

Thanks SB
Thats a very helpful post and again completelty on the mark with what I am feeling and a very specific and productive plan of how to resolve it.
I will try and find a good opprutunity to have that disussion.
Before I even read your post what I did was make a list of what the important issues to me are. Bloodwork being one, homework from Jennifer being the couple of others.

I emailed it to H and he called me back and actaully had a great suggestion for me. His analysis was that I put out requests and then I have an unreasonable reponse time expectation from him . So what he is going to do is when I put anything that is important to me on the list he will communicate back to me what his expected end date is for that. I have no doubt that this will help me re-adjust when I expect something to get done and that might help alleviate the constant waiting game I play. I am cautious however of how to handle if and when the "due date" comes and goes. I dont think H realises the extent and methods of his procastination and he always has several arguments ready and available to fall back on as to "WHY" he did not do something. As much as I am hoping this might help him be accountable to himself I feel like I need a better plan to deal with the breakdown of this system if it happens.

Permit me to just go back to the ring issue for a minute, if you remember a couple of weeks back I had a break down on that . Well since then we spoke and agreed on a joint plan. So 2 weeks or so ago, DH called our jewler via phone and ordered a ring identical to the one he had before just the right size. Great Now this jeweler happens to be about 1 hr away from us. I know my H works full time so there are not too many oppurtunities for him to go get it. I offered to go get it but he said that wont make sense cause he needs to make sure the size is right before we pick it up.
Now I dont feel as desperate about this issue as I did before because part of me has made peace with it so its not the same pain I feel when I see that it is still unresolved. At the same time when I realise that it is still "open" I debate in my own head as to what I should be doing to help my self be at complete peace.

1) Should I remind (read nag) my H once again to say rememeber the ring ?
2) Should I continue to wait for a "reasonable" amount of time. If so please tell me in what in your opinion is a reasonable amount of time for me to wait .
3) Play mind games with my brain and somehow convince myself further of the unimportance of it. This is the only way I have control over the issue because its all me , what I feel and what I can do , no expecations of what H can or will do.

Now I did not put this on my list of important issues with him beacuse I did not want him to feel like I was reopeneing the issue again. I have resisted bringing it up in conversation with him in the last few weeks 1) beacuse I am not so desperate about it any more 2) I want to avoid LBusting.

Any suggestions for what I should do with that issue at this point?
Thanks
I really appreciate your insight and the time that you take out to post to me.

wmf,

The ring issue?

Easy!

Tell your H that you would like to have a date in that town at a "favorite" restaurant (or a "new" restaurant, or SOMETHING!!!!! ANYTHING!!!!!).

Oh, and by the way, while we're there, we can swing by and pick up your ring!

And "surprise!!!!" You've already made reservations, and gotten a babysitter, and everything!


No sweat.


You can figure out something like this, right?



It doesn't always take a confrontation. When these things happen, sometimes we get locked into thinking it has to be this one way, or that other one way. But doing that, we exclude the thousands of other ways that are alternatives, and those alternatives are so often better.

When you catch yourself thinking between only two choices, ask yourself "Is there a third or fourth or fifth alternative here?" because there probably is. You might be locked into a binary choice thought in a multiple choice world.



As for worrying about the issue of his procrastination. My H is a procrastinator - or WAS!

It about drove me nuts.

He CHANGED.

Yep.

Changed.

See, there was this thing I did, where I nagged about his needing to do this or that, and his impending deadlines.

He would miss them.

And I would get angry, and then he would ignore the fact that things needed to be done. Put them off longer, and there would be a very vicious cycle in my house.

You know that cycle.

Well, I stopped my end of the cycle.

He missed deadlines, and I said nothing. No reminder. No nagging. NOTHING. I just decided I was not his mother, and I was not going to buy in to his little problem. After all, I control one person in the world, and that is ME.

I will say that again, wmf, so you take it to the bank:

I CONTROL ONE PERSON IN THE WORLD, AND THAT IS ME.

So, I decided that if he was a procrastinator, things would get changed only if he chose to change them. I couldn't make him change it.

Two things happened:

1. He missed deadlines he didn't care about.

2. He missed deadlines he did care about.

See, he was depending on me to nag, remind, etc. And as soon as I stopped, he missed one, and blamed me. I told him, Not my job. You want to procrastinate, that's on you. I have spent too much energy fighting you, trying to change your behavior, begging you to do things sooner, and all the rest. But since you are a grown man, I realize it is something you want to do. So, I am leaving you alone. I don't like nagging you, and you don't like me nagging you. So I quit.

Since then, his behavior has changed a lot. He is on time. He meets deadlines. He gets things done before they are due. He remembers the trash every week, without me saying a word (well, he missed once about a month ago, but there was a reason for it!). He has CHANGED, because I changed.


And after a few months of his changing taking place, we talked.

He said that when I nagged, or "reminded" him, sometimes he felt belittled. That he was much less motivated to do things only because someone was telling him to do it. It had nothing to do with the fact that the job was hard, nothing to do with the fact that the job was unpleasant, or anything else like that. It was simply the fact that he was inwardly rebelling against someone telling him what he needed to do. And he said he KNEW it was childish, like being a teenager again - and he KNEW it was stupid. But there it is.


Another topic for talking with him. See, it will pay to just get his perspective on this. It will not cause you any pain at all, but will probably open your eyes and his on what this very simple interaction between the two of you really can become - the dynamics are enormous.


Hey jlr - I'm NOT a psychologist!!!!!! I work in the field of communications and analysis of human communication.

SB

Begin t/j...


That was my guess, something with communication, perhaps helping with PR or images. You speak in easily understood terms, key give away that you were not a psychologist.

Are there recommendations for books to help with reading/understanding body lanuage and/or responses in the business world?

I like the K.I.S.S. method (keep it simple stupid...while I don't feel stupid I like to try to keep things simple for my sake).

And what must all of our writing techniques say to you! Or maybe I should be nervous about what it says about me.

... end t/j

WMF - How are you doing today?

Schoolbus-

I LOVED what you said about the nagging not working. IT IS SOOOOOOOOOO TRUE!!!! There is this saying i have learned in my year since D-day- "WHAT YOU RESIST - PERSIST".

This saying hit me like a ton of bricks because i was big time into fixing the world and especially my H. I told him every little thing that was wrong with him- including NEVER doing things for himself.

I got so sick of nagging him, that i just DID everything for him myself- made ALL of his appts, -Dr, haircuts, etc; did all the banking, did all his shopping, including buying his underwear and shoes even- did all the entertaining, vacation planning, etc. plus worked a full time jog and raised 3 kids. i even took on 2 part time jobs to make extra money. This was so bad, because it just gave him extra time to cheat on me.

After d- day, i stopped cold doing everything. I dont even do his wash not- it is in a seperate pile for him. i dont remind him to do things and like you said- when he forgets- he has to bear the consequences. i dont cook for him unless it is a special meal. the man never even knew how to use a computer or send an e mail!!! well - now he is on his own. it is sooo liberating.

the things i nag him about now are character changes, but i am working on stopping that too. He has sleep issues and i used to reming him to nap so he could be awake later. now i dont. if he falls asleep, i just walk away from him.

it is sooooo hard to do with this and his inablility to plan things and make dates ahead of time- he just lets things happen and makes no special time for us to talk and that is hard not to nag about. sometimes i still remind him.

some of our therapists suggest that i "gently remind" him. now i do it by texting him on his cell phone.

but the day i learned that the only one i can change is ME- was a great day. Now i just need to put it into practice in all issues.

S-55

The only "reminders" I ever do now?

I ask. For example, I might say, "Can I pick up your medication for you when I go to get mine?"

That's it. I don't ask if he called in his renewal on his prescription. I don't nag him to do that. I make the assumption he has done that, and ask if I can pick it up for him. Because I have made this change, it grants him the respect that he HAS changed and HAS accomplished the task he needed to do.

And the answer is he HAS.

Usually, he has already gotten his meds.


I don't "gently remind". I don't text him, or email him, or leave little notes.

He is a MAN. A grown man who does not need a mommy.

I am his wife, not his mommy, and one of our talks had to do with that.

Our talk basically encompassed the issue of nagging. How the circle went that I worried about his "chores" not getting done, or the errands or deadlines not being met. He resisted because I "reminded" him. I reminded more often because I worried. He resisted more. In the end, like you, I usually just did it myself. He became angry with me because I would do it - and yes, he fully intended to do many of the things, only when HE WANTED TO. The issue was that because I was reminding him (nagging, from his POV) it made it feel to him that I was "making" him do the chores. He lost the

sense of pride

he got from doing the things around the house he would get when he did them without me asking. The chores were something he did "for me", not because I nagged.

My nagging - my reminding - took that away from him. They essentially took an act of love out of his hands and made them into something he hated.

Wow.

I turned something he enjoyed into something he hated, because I gave him deadlines. Deadlines on acts of love.

Now really, when we think about these chores, do most of them have "deadlines"?????

Well, some yes, most, NO.

The trash does have to go out on Thursday night, for example, because we are first on the route and the guys in the truck will just miss our bin if it's not out there!

But will the dishwasher wait until 7:30, or will it explode if it isn't loaded by precisely 7:09 ????

Does his medication have to be picked up every month on precisely the 15th at 4:00, or can he get it on the 17th, as long as he doesn't run out?

Isn't it okay if the lawn waits just one more day, while he chooses to clean the pool instead today?

Can't he replace the light switch today, and go get the wood for the fence repair tomorrow, or Friday instead because the dog needs a bath later on (after the light switch)?

Isn't he an adult, and can't he prioritize his agenda?

I mean, after all, don't *I* prioritize MY own agenda? How would I feel if HE PRIORITIZED MINE????????


eeep.


Now, when he made that point..........well..........


eeeep.


Wasn't I a bit controlling.


eeeeeeeeep.


That's what LISTENING got me.


That "silence" factor I harp about. This came out in one of those silent moments. After he was polite, and I left the silent door open. In a "filled" moment, he filled it alright.


And I finally understood what the problem was between us about the procrastination.


He felt like I was trying to control him. I thought I was having to remind him.

He resisted. I pushed.


Our points of view were drastically different. Because NOWHERE IN THERE DID WE EVER

SIMPLY TALK LIKE ADULTS IN CALM AND SIMPLE TERMS


AND LISTEN

LISTEN

LISTEN

How terribly simple was this problem.


And we butted heads for years.

Unnecessarily.

I judged him. He judged me.

We pushed and pulled.



Now, I know. And the relief.....................ahhhhh.




S-55,

Don't judge him. Look at your role in it. How hard do you push, and are you contributing to his resisting? Did he begin the marriage with these chores as acts of love, and then you decided he "owed" them to you?

Change that.

You have the chance now.

Talk to him about it. With your apologies. Watch the change - in HIM and in YOU.


SB

jlr,

About the best book I have read recently regarding relationships really wasn't focused on communication so much, or even about marriages in particular.

It was called Leadership and Self-Betrayal: Getting out of the Box By the Arbinger Institute.

The book is written sort of along the lines of Who Moved My Cheese? in the sense that the concepts are presented in a story format.

The concepts are basic ideas that are applicable to both business and personal relationships. Although focused toward working in a tough office setting, it really makes you look at your marital relationship as well.

One of the major ideas of the book hits at the concept that when we see a problem with someone else, we need to first look at ourself. What is it that we are resisting about that person, what is it that we do not want to do for the other person, what instinct might we have betrayed in ourself about that person (self-betrayal) that has led us to begin to resist the other person?

It is really an excellent book, and has made me look at my very difficult workplace in a new light. I'm employing (pun intended) the concepts at work, and trying to see how things shake out. So far, so good.


It also gives me a much different perspective on my own behavior, and ownership of relationships.

A pretty good read. And very reader-friendly, to boot.

SB

sb- YOU ARE SOOO RIGHT!!

i am very impatient and i feel like i need to manage his time. the man has no ability to prioritze and it drives me crazy.

if he has started washing dishes and our daughter came home with a broken arm - he would finish washing the dishes first! (Not seriously - but this kind of thing.)

my new job is to LISTEN and not manage. i will keep saying it.

many times i am looking for him to prioritize me- and then that validates me and his love for me. like if we make an appt to have alone time ... i wait to see if he will approach me about it.

then if he doesnt- i feel upset or i criticize him.

i know i need to tell myself that these are HIS issues and do not relate to me.... but after bearing the ultimate hurt of infidelity- every new hurt- still hurts more.

sunflower

S-55,

Why do you wait for him to make him your priority?

Why not approach him instead?

The simplest answer sometimes is changing what you are thinking.


See, you somehow sound like you have this fantasy, about how he is going to be the guy who reads your mind about what you think is romantic. And he will swoop in and do these romantic things for you - for example, make you his priority - whatever that means to you.

Sit down with him. Fill out the Emotional Needs Questionnaire with him. And if he won't do it with/for you, fill one out as though you were him sitting there doing it. You should know him well enough that you can do it. Then, go about meeting those needs for him.

You will see the change in him over a few weeks of meeting his needs.

Read the book I just suggested to jlr. You will understand the EN concept even better, because that book really does support the idea of the EN concept, only from a drastically different POV.

There are DJ's in your posts - read back over the posts and notice them. Maybe these are coming through in your actions and words to your H. Are you watching that part of yourself - changing that in yourself?

I am betting that if your H can hold a job, he can prioritize.

You and he need to sit and talk about the procrastination issue, and what your EN's are. What it all means to you, and what it means to him. Your job in the talk would be to listen, of course.

Then, later on, a follow-up talk might include more asking and listening. You just might find yourself learning a lot about how your marriage got to be in the state it was in leading up to the affair. And how to never get there again.

SB

SB-
YOu are so right here also. I am that person who wants him to love me above all else... to know my needs... . i am the ultiimate romantic. Maybe that is why i was/am so wounded by all his affairs.

when you called them "patches"...it made sense. he never loved them... they just give him the admiration that i wasnt giving him.


but i go back to ... with all the hurt feelings between us and his ignoring me, not meeting any of my ENs, i stayed in the marriage. WHY DID HE HAVE TO GO OUTSIDE OF IT WITH SO MANY WOMEN? why couldnt he finally talk to my about how he was feeling???

i will get the 2 books you mentioned.

we are doind SAA book together- reading a chapter aloud to each other every night. we are on chapter 4.we will do the EN chapter soon. i think it will be very enlightening.

what is a DJ????

Thanks so much for all your insights, SF

I am guilty of the same flaw. Thinking that if he does what I am "thinking in my mind" then he is really tuned into my needs. True soul mate yadya yada yada....


I guess that ruins the fantsy of how much he loves me beacuse importance is being attached to the mind reading. Its really a silly way of thinking, becuase when I see it in print now it almost seems that its not the act that he would do that makes me happy its the "him doing it because he read my mind" thats is going to be the cause of my happiness.
I need to start ACCEPTING that mind reading is not a quality of love and does not define how much he loves me. Part of it is also thinking that if he cared for me enough it would occur to him naturally to do it. What I am learrning through these posts and disussions with my Dh is that he wants to do things that make me happy and the only real blockage to that is ME. I need to identify what it is that will make me happy and communicate it to my DH.
If it turns out that only mind reading can make me happy then may be I can send my Dh to physic school LOL

Schoolbus I follwed your advise and had a productive discussion with Dh about my heartbrake and how I feel like my strenght in continuing to wage this battle is diminishing. I am glad to have it off my chest becasuse it was like this big brewing storm in my head that I was afraid to reveal to my H . I was afraid to say aloud to my self and him that I think about throwing in the towel. That things sometimes seem unsurmountable and that I need his help in getting me thru the tough times. I could see that he was hurt and angry at the same time that even though things were getting better with us that I still evaluated getting out.
I came to a realisation that "we" were dong better than "I". I was gettign to a point of being completely run down and feeling let down with his efforts towards this recovery and having a calm disussion about it in the open gave me a good start to feeling like now that he knows how I feel there is a chance he might do something about it.
So back to positive track, I am confident that as long as we keep communicating to each other in a healty and productive manner we will keep moving forward. I am looking forward to more positive progess in the coming days and weeks

Sb- I love this post you made about procastination and I think it will really really help sink in to me that I need to remove myself from being his monitor and reminder and let him lead him do his own taks his own way. If he drops the ball then thats his choice , I need to stop constantly trying to keep them up for him. I will help if he asks for it but I really need to stop mothering him and reminding all that he has to do ...


I have been so positive and feeling like we are moving forward and its been nice. Today however I am having a massive trigger attack and I am trying to hold up a huge stop sign in my mind to shut out all the images. Its not working yet but I will keep at it. I dont want to waste a beautiful day grieving for somthing that is not occuring today.

If I can do it without Lbing all day then may be I can treat myself to a facial or something as a reward for myself

{{{WMF}}}


And where is your list of things you do to make yourself happy? Have you done any of those things today?

Do something for YOU.

Thanks I needed that kick in the butt

Anyway took the kids out for brunch and drove around in the warm sunshine, all fed and happy right now

So hopefully the worst is gone for the day

wmf,

So much in your posts.

First, I'm so glad you had the talk about where you are in recovery. I was in your shoes, and when my H and I talked, he also felt hurt and angry that I felt that way.

He was hurt because he felt like we had moved forward, and that "we" were doing well. You put it so nicely when you were able to separate how you two as a couple seemed to be progressing, but how you as an individual felt so weak and tired. That really describes the feelings I faced at your point in recovery, and how so many BS's also feel. An excellent perspective, and something that others can learn from!

My H was angry because he thought he had been doing the right things - and while he had been doing many things, I really needed him to do some things differently and other things not at all, and he also needed to do some things he wasn't doing. The issue seemed to be, like you, that I wasn't clear in what those things were or the exact activities he needed to do. Sometimes, I wasn't sure what they might be myself! That was very frustrating for him, and when we talked about that aspect of it, we did have a laugh about it, because it really is kind of goofy.

Me: I want you to do something!

H: What?

Me: Something to help me feel better!

H: I will do anything! Tell me what you want!

Me: I want.........I want.............I don't know!

H: Well, okay....I will get right on it!




Sound familiar?




The triggers, and rollercoaster are very common. When they happen, remember that it is okay. You do not have to take the "moment" right then, you CAN delay the moment and dwell on it later. Give yourself permission to wallow in the grief at a more convenient time if it comes up in public (self-talk, "I need to get through this public moment, but I can work on the trigger consciously later.").

Use your positive supports for the down days, and I like that you did. Those things help. I put up a fence, and believe me, that hammering of nails did wonders for the anger phase.

Plus we got a nice dog run out of the deal.


As for the mind-reading. I think most women grow up with this fantasy or ideal. There are so many books and movies that have the "perfect lover" who knows exactly what his woman wants, meets her needs, comes with flowers and says exactly the right thing at the right time. We grow up with the myth that our mate will know what we need, and will be able to read our minds, meet our expectations without us having to tell them how.

If this were true, marriages would all be perfect, wouldn't they?

Myth busted.


So we work at it. We just have to talk, to show one another how to love each other.

Along those lines:

Here's one task that someone gave me and my husband that turned out to be one of the toughest ever, but very valuable and fun, too.

Write down ten things your spouse can DO for you that would make you feel loved.

(Now, these things need to be things that your spouse can actually do - not dreams or fantasies. Things that can be done without extraordinary cost or effort - for example, you shouldn't put down something like "build an ark by hand without modern tools, or give me a million dollars every day".)

The list should include things that make you FEEL loved. My list was basic, and had things like "help me change the sheets on the beds, hold my hand in public, bring me flowers once in awhile for a surprise".

Once each of you have listed ten things, exchange lists. Then, at least once or twice a week - DO SOMETHING ON THE LIST WHEN YOUR SPOUSE IS NOT EXPECTING IT.

I can tell you this - since we exchanged our list about 15 years ago? I have never changed the sheets alone again.


SB