Pepperband, imagine, Queenie, Chai, believer, Trying2live (I hope I didn't miss anyone):
Thank you for being there and telling me truth.

I realize that I can get really low in the weekends. It really helped to tell myself that the divorce is not my fault. I will try to repeat that whenever I feel down.

You are the best support group I can imagine. to you all.

It has really helped me to realize that although I can get low on weekends, it will pass and I will be fine again.

It has also helped for me to realize that I have not caused this. I know that it sounds weird, but before I have "used" the fact that my STBXWH is a POSOM to feel better about myself.

My reasoning has been that if I really would be that awful, he could leave me and even start an affair because he wanted someone better than me. But to start an affair with a married woman with small children and mess up the life of a whole family - that can never be my fault no matter what I did. The conclusion was that it is STBXWH who is doing wrong.

That is really weird and I have realized that this is his fault and even if I didn't do everything right, it is wrong for him to do this.

I don't know when I finally will move on. I had a dream tonight. I had met a new man, we were engaged and had set a date for the wedding. We went to visit my dad and when I talked to dad, he asked if "the new guy" was coming and where he was going to sleep. "The new guy" in my dream didn't even have a name and when I woke up I almost panicked. I don't want a strange "new guy", I want my husband

I guess I will just know when I am ready to move on.

My D is approaching.

WH has cheated and lied and let me down. I want to be furious and raving mad and hate him but I just feel sad. I feel like the WH killed my husband and I miss my husband so much.

When I'm with friends I'm fine. When I do things I'm fine. When I'm at work I'm also fine. It's those early Sunday mornings that kill me.

I want to go to work. I have great colleagues that respect me and like me both as a professional and as a friend. My boss gave me excellent feedback last week. We have just won a very important contract and he said that it was mostly because of my work.

I'm sorry about the self-pity but I feel so rejected and so worthless. I don't know what is wrong with me. Why does he let me down like this? I try to tell myself that it is not my fault but I still feel that I am not good enough.

I don't think I've ever posted to you Why but your post this morning really touched my heart. I remember having those feelings and thoughts. They hurt emotionally and even physically.

Those thoughts are lies straight from the pits of hell. You are a beautiful, wonderful, warm, desirable woman. What your WH has done has NOTHING to do with you. He is a broken person and no one can change that except him. Your dream about a new man may have been a peek into your future. There may be a new man in your future with whom you can share a good, normal, HEALTHY, relationship. Let go of your WH/POSOM, he's poison to your soul.

(((((Why_us))))

Thank you princessmeggy for caring!

I have thought so much about what I am and what I do. I can only come to the conclusion that there is nothing wrong with me and I try to do the best I can. I don't look bad, I care for my family and my friends, I take care of my home (I always did before the affair too), I am not stupid and I like to talk and laugh, I enjoy fun activities (I think RC is high on my STBXWH's list of emotional needs and it is high on mine also).

Still it is not good enough for STBXWH. He has thrown me away like yesterday's garbage for infatuation, for crazy emotions tickling his abdomen... I don't want to feel like yesterday's garbage! I don't even want to feel like today's garbage!

The dream about the new man... I don't know. He didn't have a name or a face but he reminded me of my best friend's husband but it was not him. My best friend has had so much bad luck with boyfriends before she met her husband. When they met it was obvious that they were right together although I would never have imagined her with someone like him - mainly because of his appearance. Maybe the dream was my wish to find someone as good as him and not care about the first impression?

I have a question:

During the affair I have lost contact with a lot of people. It was mostly people that were STBXWH's friends from the start. I don't think he sees them so often either, most of them are married with children and think that the affair is awkward and solve it by not associating with either of us. I'm not sorry about that, I rather have good friends that I can trust.

Some people have taken the stand that STBXWH has done nothing wrong or at least not so much wrong that they will react against it. Those people I have happily deleted from my phone book.

2-3 persons still have contact both with STBXWH and me. I have told them about the affair and they have told me that they will not have anything to do with OW but they want to stay friends with STBXWH. I don't know how they plan to handle the current situation but I do know that if they go on hanging out with STBXWH and he brings OW around, I don't want anything to do with them. It is just too much of a trigger for me and as I said, I rather have good friends that I can trust.

I'm thinking about asking them if they have met OW and if they plan to socialize with her. How do I do that best? Is it in order to tell them once again that the affair has caused me a lot of pain?

I suspect that one response might be "I'm sorry that this has happened". Is it ok to respond that "the affair did not happen, it was STBXWH who did it"? I have a feeling that they are shifting the blame to circumstances so they don't have to see STBXWH as a bad guy.

I'm grateful for your input.

I just read a great post from MelodyLane. Some parts of it:


This is about telling the kids the truth about an affair but I think it has a general meaning too. Waywards want to whitewash what they are doing. People around them allow the whitewashing or just look away to not make the waywards feel bad. I can't control what anyone else does, but anyone who allows that whitewashing is not a person I want to have as a friend.

Unfortunately, those who have not been victims of infidelity can never understand the pain of it. Others feel uncomfortable in the midst of divorce. Some friends feel that they have to take sides. I say to just let go of those that don't understand or support you. It's a hard line to take, but when you are in our state of emotions, you have to protect yourself against further hurt. I think it just goes witht he territory. Those that are true friends will always be there to see you through.

Sunday mornings are bad for me too. It is a lonely time, and for many months I hated to see Sunday coming.

And I know how you feel in blaming yourself. We all do that. The WS sees to it that we take all the blame. Unfortunately, they don't always give us the opportunity to work things out.

Just stay dark and protect yourself.

I spent a lot of time agonizing of this myself. You will gradually find that your main friends are eventually new ones that you made since all of this happened - eventually.

Among the close friends you have now, they have probably already split themselves up between you and STBX. Those ones are easy. It's the acquaintances that are harder. There are many people you both knew as a couple, but not very well. These people likely know more than they care to about the affair - gossip gets around. They also probably feel slightly uncomfortable around either one of you - a problem made worse if you talk about it.

I had a long ordeal with acquaintances. I played in a baseball league with WSTBX for nearly 10 years. D-day occurred just before the start of the season - so close to it that I had to get myself traded to a different team. My team captain wouldn't trade him because he's a homerun hitter and a great player. Only one other team had a single woman to trade with me, but she refused to play on my captain's team (he is very competitive and chauvenistic). My captain wasn't taking sides, he was just looking out for himself and his team. Eventually another captain took me on as an extra female. My new team was great and very supportive. One guy had recently been through this whole ordeal himself and directed me to some great support groups. However, there were 2 women on the team who resented having an extra woman and the resulting less play time - so they ended up requesting a trade midway through the season (there was another team who through injury or whatever had lost players and needed extra). They left our team in exchange for nobody leaving us short women (which was great for our play time). Anyway, to make a long story short, the league underwent a number of structural changes throughout the season, all sparked by Wstbx's A. Not everyone bent over backwards to help me and even acted against me in some ways - but not because they supported him. For these people, it wasn't me vs. him - it was my intersts vs. their own.

Wstbx played again the following year and though nobody outwardly "took his side" against me, they were still friendly with him. Although many would give me the heads up if OW showed up (they usually called her the tramp or the whore) but they would also be seen chatting with them occassionally. The fact is, none of these people are my near or dear friends. They are just acquaintances that I happent to have known for many years. THey are more uncomforable with my situation than I am. They don't feel loyal to one side or another because they never felt loyal to us when we were together. They may feel that Wstbx is the **** but they don't know him well enough to say that to him directly and they don't feel like they should know as much about our personal business as they do. They're just being polite.

Thank you Chai! I would say that fortunately they can never feel the pain just like I fortunately can't feel the pain to have a limb amputated without anesthesia. But I completely get your point.

I am quite sure that if I tell my friends that I can't see them if they associate with OW, they will avoid her and probably STBXWH too. We are talking about old friends that I had years before I even met WH. If they would not understand I would not call them my friends. It would hurt but at least I would know.

I'm sorry that you too have bad Sunday mornings. I don't know what to do about it really. The only thing which has worked for me is to stay up late on Saturday evening and have fun and plan activities for Sunday so I can't stay at home. Sitting on the couch with the cats is a safe way to make me depressed.

Tabby, I'm sorry that you had to change teams and had a mess in general. I hoped that you kicked some [censored] in the league!

I don't have a problem with acquaintances, if I know that they socialize with WH I just give them a sweet smile and say how do you do and walk away. I am not interested in keeping any relation to them.

But my biggest concern is a male friend I have from high school. We have always been good friend and when I met WH, he started to hang out with us. We meet on average once every week, he likes to invite people for dinner and he always asks me, we go skiing together and things like that. I have told him that WH has hurt me terribly and he said that he understands that but he doesn’t want to tell WH what he should do. They still meet every now and then, they have common interests and go out for dinner sometimes. However, he said that he would never have anything to with OW.

Now with STBXWH's living arrangement I don't see how they can go on seeing each other without OW getting involved. I want to point out once again that the affair has hurt me so badly and I don't want anything to do with it. I want to ask him if he plans to associate with OW. I just need the courage to do that.

You can ask, but be prepared for this to be the beginning of the end of your friendship. In fact, it may already have begun to end. Friendships are another tragic casualty of infidelity. Again, it's not so much that people pick sides, but often that they don't want to pick sides and end up pulling away from both (or both parties pull away from them).

Strange things happen so it's hard to predict. In my sitch, OWH had a close friendship with his BIL - OW's sister's H. He did not like Wstbx AT ALL but can't avoid him entirely since they live together and OW is very close to her sister. He drew the line as far as allowing WstbxH in his house, though he sees him at other family functions. It has also driven a wedge between OW and her sister, particularly because anything she tells her sister finds its way back to OWH.

OW and WstbxH have very few friends together. Most of the friends WstbxH and I had were mine and still are. My closest friends hate him more than I do. Many of OW's friends were friends with OWH and still are. There are a couple of people they work with who they still "hang out" with, including one woman who plays in our baseball league with her husband. This couple, along with another couple and OWH and OW used to take trips to the carribean together every year. Last year, they invited OWH to go and told him they didn't want WstbxH on their vacation. THey are planning a trip this year as well - without OW and Wstbxh. So they "hang out" in the sense that OW invites them over for dinner etc., but they don't do the things that she once did when she was with OWH.

Oh, and I did kick @$$ at baseball. This year, my team won the season and the tournament!

Congratulations Tabby!!!

I called my friend yesterday. I asked him if he hangs out with STBX and he said yes. I asked if he has met OW and he said no and he does not intend to do so. Then he said that he knows that STBX has moved in with her. I said "Oh well, I guess everything is fine then". I'm afraid that this was immature but his tone suggested that now when they have officially shacked up and STBX will be divorced everything will be happy go lucky and nobody will have any objections.

I said to him: Do you know what STBX has done? Do you know that he lied and cheated and left me without warning? Do you know that an affair causes a trauma comparable to a rape or the death of a family member? Do you know that I have done everything I can to save our marriage?

He asked me if I wanted him to speak to STBX. I said no, I just want you to know this. He said that he was concerned about me because I sounded down. I told him that I am ok as long as I don't have anything to do with STBX and that is why I can't have contact with him (STBX).

So now I know that he will continue to hang out with STBX and I am quite sure that he will not mention anything to him about the affair or OW. I don't know what he really thinks but he is so busy not taking sides. I will not play along with this. I think about what MelodyLane wrote about whitewashing to not make anyone feel bad. Some things are wrong and to whitewash them does not make them right.

I think that he will call me again, maybe this evening, and ask me how I am and if there is anything he can do for me. I just want to tell him to go and find himself a spine but I don't want to fight with him. I will be polite and not talk about STBX or the affair but I don't want to socialize with him anymore.

In case anyone wonders, I have never had a romantic interest in this friend and I don't think he has been interested in me either.

My other friends (not acquaintances) told me right from the start that STBX was a b*stard and that what he did was wrong. A few of them said that they didn't want anything to do with him. One of them moves in the same circles as him but they have never had much to do with each other and I think it is even less now.

I still have this voice popping up in my head telling me that STBX choose OW because she is better in some way. I feel plain and dull and like there is something wrong with me. I know that it can't be. I look in the mirror and nothing is wrong. Ok, not perfect either but nice. I have interesting conversations on all kinds of topic and levels and everyone seem to enjoy talking to me. I am there for my family and friends because I care about them. And I have never cheated and I am not a POSOW who leaves her husband and babies. Since her husband still lives in their house I guess he has a great chance to get primary custody and she will be a part-time mom. What kind of woman wants to be a part-time parent of her three-year old?

I remember feeling that way! I did all kinds of stupid stuff, like buying teeth whiteners thinking that might help make me more attractive and "better".

The bottom line is this: Your STBX is lacking something in himself. Instead of working to fill it up himself, he looked for someone else to fill it up. It's not that OW is better in any way, it's that she's lacking so much. Her shortcomings allow her to:
* believe him
* not recognize that his problem is inside him

LOL! I actually started to use teeth whitening toothpaste for the first time not so long ago. It worked, my teeth are much whiter now and I can see the difference. I also started to put on makeup more often and cleaned out my closet and changed style. All those things don't have the slightest effect on STBX and I was well aware of that. PA has never been his top emotional need. But what do I know, it might have changed. My changes made me feel better and I don't regret them one bit. But teeth whitening does feel a bit vane.

I hear what you say about the waywards missing something in themselves. I guess the best I can do is to
* not believe him
* recognize that his problem is inside him

A lot of people think that a cheating spouse is a sign that something is wrong with the marriage and some would say that the cheating spouse finds something better. I should stop listening to those fools and believe what my dear MB's say - and also my best friends that tell me that I am great and that STBX has really lost it.

This theme only works in the movies. In the real world, the opposite is true. Look at any real life example you know - from personal experiences to celebrities. Compare Monika to Hilary. Compare Princess Diana to Camilla. Angelina vs Jennifer. Seriously, the OW's are HAGS by comparison. And useless to boot.

I suppose that's why we stbxBS's get hung up on this. THe OW in my sitch is about 100 lb underweight and spends so much time in the tanning salon that she looks like an 80 year old with hot pants and a stupid dye job - as if she's dressed up for Halloween. It begs the question - WHY??? But don't worry because other people ask the same question and the answer is, WH isn't right in the head.

That would be by the definition of a WH, wouldn't it?

I can't say much about the OW in my case except that she seems to have what you could call a liberal view on truth and fidelity. But that is also by the definition of a WS so no surprises there. Stupid STBX to chase after a slag like that.

She seems to work a lot and has a career as a chemist. I have talked to OWH and from what I understand, they have been working hard to create careers for both of them, to build a home and to take care of their children. My impression is that this requires team work and now that OW has to handle everything on her own I don't know what will burst first. Also, her managers and my STBX's managers are old buddies with OWH. STBX had to transfer to another location against his will, I wonder why?

She is not ugly but she is not pretty either. I would say that she is plain... but when I think about it she has little pig eyes (I'm sorry if I'm insulting any pigs). She must be very thirsty for attention and her husband said that she lets emotions decide rather that reason. She started the affair because she was bored with her husband. At the time he had taken time off from his work to be a SAHD to their 3 year old and 1 year old for a few months. I couldn't believe it when I first found out who OW was. I would never have thought that a woman would cheat on her husband while he was at home changing diapers on their baby. How stupid can you be to cheat on an excellent responsible father? That is just stupid, she is obviously destroying her own life. And she was apparently committed enough to get pregnant not long before the affair. Enough about that, to conclude I will just say that I'm sorry for her husband and kids.

I don't follow celebrities' lives but I checked Angelina and Jennifer on Wikipedia. I thought that Angelina was just another actor but what a mess she seems to be. I feel sorry for the kids, the couple has a bad track record in relationships and I couldn't even keep track of all kids she has now.

My old friend called a few times last night but I had turned off the phone. I went to a night-before-Christmas thing with my girl friends.

I don't feel like talking to him. What should I tell him? I feel uncomfortable with him because he socializes with STBX while STBX has moved in with OW and has treated me so bad and has not even tried to apologize. If I'm ever going to regain my self-respect I don't want to associate with people that accept that and act as if nothing is wrong.

sounds good to me! Just substitute the appropriate pronouns and rattle the sentence off to him. Neat, clear, easy to understand.