Hi abm,

I think that you might find it hard to hold the belief that the affair is over and yet organise your life as if it is still in progress.

Do you realise that the affair could continue either at a physical or an emotional level (or both)? I trust that you are not defining "continuing" only on the basis of physical contact. An emotional affair is just as devastating to a marriage. Also, in the case where there has been a physical affair, an emotional affair is just the physical affair awaiting re-ignition.

If you really plan to act now on the basis of a continuing affair, what will you do?

You have already done a version of Plan A for two months, and he has not returned to the marriage. Do you intend to continue Plan A? If so, you should take into account Dr Harley's advice that it has only about a 15% success rate in bring the WS out of the affair and into the marriage. However, it lays good groundwork for Plan B.

I think that by the time you read this you will have had the interview. How did it go? When will you get a result?

The interview seemed to go well, but I will not know anything for a few days.

The difficult part of this is that little bits at a time, he seems to be moving in the direction back to our marriage. Kinda like 2 steps forward and one step back. A week ago he was willing to work on our marriage, but know he doesn't want to commit to it.

My plan is as follows:
Until it is confirmed to be over, I will assume as if the affair is still continuing. I am thinking of moving to plan B after the holidays, but there are a couple things I am not clear of. First, if it seems like we are making some kind of progress, do I just stick with plan A longer? Second, is it possible to be on plan B in the same house if we are never home at the time?

Does anyone think there would be any benefit to stop doing the usual things I would do for him as his wife since he says we are just friends?? Like laundry, making phone calls, be there and talk to him about work issues, help with business stuff. Or do I just keep doing those things unless I move to plan B?

The tough thing about dealing with him is that he is definately one of those glass half empty kind of people. If fact, if it is half empty, he would say it is 3/4 empty.

He said previously that he is not sure if he wants things to work out between us. I can tell that his biggest issue is that he does not think that it is possible. Now, he does not want to give me any false hope at things working, so he just tells me he doesn't want to make things work. But when I ask him, so you will never want to work on our marriage?, he says "well, never say never, I don't know".

Again, we have not be able to make changes yet for there to be absolutely no contact, but a few weeks ago he was staying at her place and now they are not talking as far as I can tell. So things are headed in the right direction, so do I just continue with plan A?? We have been talking a lot and getting closer, so I am kinda confused on where to go from here. How do you know for sure when you are ready for plan B?

Trust me, I will never believe the affair is completely over until I have solid proof.

If you define progress as his leaving the job with the OW and commmiting to the marriage. If he continues to work with her and states his committment to date others, then that is not "progress."

Plan B means complete and total separation.


Just keep doing those things until you go into Plan B.


No, things are headed in the WRONG direction. He is still in contact with the OW and does not want to work on your marriage. He has stated he wants to DATE. That is the WRONG DIRECTION. Just having him in the house does not mean anything good is happening.


If the affair has not ended after 3-4 weeks it is probably TIME for Plan B.

The part that confuses me is that you all say not to listen to to a WS because they are in a fog. View their actions instead.

The reason I say that there is progress is because even though there is still may be a small amount contact at work, I can tell that the affair is crumbling. Also, he has begun talking to me about what he feels went wrong in our marriage and what he could have done better. Then, as many WS do, his tone will be different the next day. When we were coming up with our agreement is when he said that comment about not wanting to be held to a contract for a long period of time in case he wants to date later, not necessarily now. He is not completely ruling out us rebuilding our marriage, but he is not commited to it at this time either. A few weeks back he would always say he knew he did not want to stay married. We have been getting along on a daily basis, joking around with each other and all that. These are the things I was referring to as progress.

However, I would need to see significant commitment from him for NC and to rebuild our marriage or I plan to go to plan B after the holidays (just can't do that to the kids now).

Okay, here is an update.

We have signed our agreement. It mostly involved all the financial sort of things regarding the house and such if we were to completely split. It also addresses visitation of the kids of course. The biggest part of the agreement for me is that it includes NC with the OW. At this point, we are doing everything we can to even try to avoid any incidental contact at work, but more changes are in the works to insure absolutely no contact.

My question is this, has anyone ever experienced a wayward that is willing to agree to NC but yet doesn't really want to work on the marriage? Do you think that he just doesn't want to put faith in it yet? I know that he does not want to give me false hope. He has also said at times that he thinks he just wants to live his life completely alone. Any thoughts?

One day recently, I told him that I believe that one of the main reasons he does not want to start caring for me again is that he would then be forced to see the pain he caused me. What are your experiences with this??

Thanks so much all of you for your support.

You honestly think that once you get a job, he will suddenly think "Wow! Look at how attractive she is now, now that she brings home a check! How did I miss that?"

Nuh uh.

You can always get a job later, like mel says. I would, however, open my own bank account, just to get prepared.

Yes, WS's waffle because they're in withdrawal. But your H has no consequences for what he has done to you. Why should he try to save the marriage? He still gets to do whatever he wants, gets to date for heaven's sake if he wants to. This is the point at which you need to say "You have hurt me too much; I can't be in the same house with you. Please leave by January 1. If you decide you want us back in your life, you can come back with the transparency and other assurances I need."

I am not saying that I would all of a sudden be attractive if I got a job, what I am saying is the it would show him I am making changes. Also, he would have more respect for me if I was helping our family out financially.

I was actually thinking the same thing, cut him off as of January 1st. I think I have everything in line for that except the actual Plan B letter. His birthday is actually shortly after that, I wonder if he will be glad he is alone so he can go party alone or he will be sad because he is not with his family.

Is it unusual for a wayward to agree to no contact but not be sure if he wants to make the marriage work?

Today my husband sent a message to the OW telling her he no longer wants to speak to her and see her. As we discussed before, we are trying to figure out how to change the work situation so he can actually withdrawel. He said "I swear on my mother's grave that I don't want anything to do with her (ow) anymore. I made it crystal clear to her (OW) that we were done and I do not want to even speak to her anymore." And trust me, he definately would not say that if he doesn't mean it. I have never heard him say he swore on his mother's grave, he if very touchy about that sort of thing since she died young.

He has not said he wants to try to work things out, but we have been getting along very well. The issue with the most tension for us was money. He was the one making all the money and giving it to me to pay bills and he resented that. I resented the fact that if there was not enough to pay everything, he would assume I wasted it somehow. Even though he spends a decent amount of money on himself. Today, we sat down and went over all the bills and I asked him to take them over. That way, he knows exactly where everything is going and maybe he won't spend so much on himself when he knows there are other bills to pay.

One small step at a time I guess.

abm, I don't trust you if you tell me that you believe the word of a liar "swearing on his mothers grave." c'mon, you can't be that gullible. That is just meaningless cheap talk that means nothing. That is not trustworthy or wise behavior on your part. The way your H will withdraw from the OW is to leave his job and get another one. All the vows of a wayward husband are meaningless. There is no other way to recover.

What to Do with an Unfaithful Husband excerpt

Melody,

I am not saying that I completely believe the affair is over, but I am just saying that I think he is serious about ending it.

As far as the workplace, it's not like he just works there and can get a new job. We own a business that is inside of the building where the OW works. We are planning to change this, but we can't just walk away from our business either without planning ahead.

I will not completely believe anything from him until he is ready to be completely transparent. However, there are times and situations that I can tell how sincere he is and it seems as if he may be telling the truth.

Looking for some feedback from you all.

Could you tell me if these are good signs? Do they seem to signs of his withdrawel?

For the first time in a really long time, my WH complimented me. I have lost over 30 pounds since October, however, when I asked him if he could tell, he would always say "a little". But two days ago, we were standing in the kitchen talking and all of a sudden he said that he could really tell in my face that I had lost weight.

He is one that is completely in his head instead of his heart and buries his emotions. However, his emotions seem to be getting to him lately.

I am 99% sure that there has been no contact, so could these be signs of him starting to go through withdrawel?

We have been getting along well, joking around with each other and stuff like we used to as well. What do you all think?

I could really use some help today.

I am thinking about moving to plan B, but I have a few questions. First, is plan B only for if the affair is still continuing? Or just when you get to the point that you can't be around them anymore without losing your love for them?

I believe the affair is over, but do not have proof. My WH has said many times previously that he doesn't think he wants to try to make it work, but even if we seperate he doesn't plan on filing for a divorce any time soon. Now, all of a sudden today he says that if he could move out today and file for divorce immediately he would.

Do you think it is time to move to plan b? I was trying to wait until after the holidays, but he is just being more and more hurtful and I don't know what to do.

Please help, I am so down today.

ABM,

Plan B is designed to help you preserve the remaining love you have for WH before it is all gone and you have nothing left but Plan D. If you feel yourself getting close to that point then you need to get into Plan B as soon as possible. Sometimes, Plan B can also be a 2x4 to a WS and can help bring them out of the fog but there is certainly no guarantee to that.

If you are ready for Plan B then take some time to put together your Plan B letter and post it here for the vets to review. Make sure you have all of the logistical things worked out in advance. Make sure you have a good IM that will respect your wishes when it comes to communication. Make sure you have a plan for how the kids will be exchanged for visitation, etc. A poorly executed Plan B can be much worse then no Plan B at all so you need to get all of these things figured out in advance.

Best of luck!

Mindshare

I asked my WH today if he meant what he said that he would file for divorce tomorrow if he could and he said no, he was just being pissy.

I have been doing some thinking about his behavior for the last 3-4 years. I am starting to think that his depression is not under control as we had thought. I pointed out to him that he has not only disconnected from me, but he has been disconnnected with the kids, his friends, his family. For example, he loves baseball and bowling, yet he has not taught our boys how to. He would walk out on his job tomorrow if it were for the house. Even the recreational things he does, he does not seem to enjoy anymore. I have brought these things up to him and he said he would think about going to talk to the doctor.

I have made the mistake of trying to talk to him about our relationship. I think I am going to try to continue with plan a for a little while longer but with completely avoiding relationship talk. I am 99% sure that he has given up the OW, so this will probably make the depression worse. I will just try to be here for him but not push the relationship. The only time I get hurt is when I try to push, so I have no idea why I would want to keep doing that anyway.

Do you all think I am doing the right thing? Any advise?

ABM,

Your WH had an affair for 2 years and now it has only been a couple of weeks since NC? He is going through withdrawal. It is perfectly normal. He has to get the OW out of his system. Just like a drug addict withdrawing from a drug. This will take some time. Try to be patient during this time and give him a little space and don't push the relationship talk. I know it hurts but don't listen to much of what he says because it is still fog babble at this point and he will say things that hurt you. At the same time, you must be vigilant about snooping and making sure that NC continues. If he slips and even has a single conversation with her then withdrawal will have to start all over at square one. Keep up with your best Plan A during this time and do your best to ride it out.

Mindshare

Thank you mindshare, I will try to keep up the patience.

The problem with snooping is that he has made it significantly harder because he got a seperate cell phone that I can't check since he says he doesn't care about earning my trust.

The hardest part is still the work situation. I am sure that they have had a glimps of each other, but I really do believe that there has been no other contact. I know that is not ideal, but thats what we can do for now. Does that me that we are making no progress at all? It really seems like he despises her now and has no interest. I know she is mad too. Can we move forward at all with this work situation?

Has anyone ever experienced that a spouse is more likely to become wayward if they have depression before the affair even started?

Sorry, I have so many questions and I am just trying to keep my head on straight for the boys, especially around the holidays.

Thanks for your help.

Hello ABM. I'm an AGM (all girls' mom) with four children like you. I'm also a STAM (stay at home mom) like you. I have had a similar situation to you although each situation has its peculiarities.

I had a great M with my H in the past but over the past couple of years it has deteriorated exactly as you describe. He became disconnected not only from me but from the children, his family and friends etc. He had an PA from Feb of this year but an EA was going on long before that. After I found out he hesitated for a long time between me and the OW. Eventually he said that he wanted to stay with us but he behaved very like your H, making no effort at best and being negative and provocative at worst. He didn't quite say that he wanted out of our M but all
his actions indicated that way. He didn't care that I had no trust left in him and said that it was my problem, not his. He resisted NC fiercely and only agreed to it when I threatened to leave, expose etc etc. Yet she kept contacting him, calling in to his place of work and phoning him. He didn't tell me about this but I caught them on the phone together and discovered though colleagues that she had been in.

Whenever I told him I had to have NC in order to reconstruct he kept saying forcefully 'But it's OVER between us'. When he said this I think he meant it but what he really meant was 'I am not having sex with her at the moment but I'd like to keep that option on the back-burner just in case I'd prefer that later on' And then of course he was doing everything to destruct our M in order to justify his departure. This was probably subconscious on his part, his addict's brain slyly showing him a way back to his fix. I am now in Plan B and I can see very clearly that there was nothing I could have done in Plan A to get him back (10 weeks of that). I'm still not sure at all that I will get him back as we are into 8 weeks of Plan B but at least I will know that I have done my best and I have tried.

From what I've read, I think your H is like mine. Possibly he is not sleeping with this woman right now and in his self-justification mode he probably thinks this is enough of a sacrifice to have made. (Several times, my WH shouted at me 'What more do you want! I've broken up with her!') But I think your WH is in touch with her and is still 'in love' with her. He is probably telling her that he still loves her, that he wants to be with her but he needs to stay with his family and martyr himself. She is probably admiring of him for this (partly because she feels guilty herself) and is saying 'of course you must and how wonderful you are for doing that but if by any chance it doesn't work between you and your wife then I'll be here waiting for you.' This makes him love her even more because she is so understanding and admiring of him while you are demanding more and through your pain and hurt forcing him to see a much more negative picture of himself (and a truer one).

He is probably swinging in his mind between two outcomes and can't decide. One day he sees that he has behaved like a POS and he has betrayed not only you but his 4 children. He knows that the right thing to do is to stay with you and to reconstruct his M but facing up to that negative self-image is hard to do. He would much rather feel good and feel like a 'good' man which is what the OW is makes him feel. When he's with her he sees himself as a man who made a human mistake by falling in love with another woman, who is doing his best to achieve the best result for everyone concerned and is appreciated for doing so.

I think you should go to Plan B as soon as the holidays are over (if you can last that long). It's much easier to Plan A when you have a date in mind for when all this is going to end. I think you should stop talking about your relationship, your M, the OW or any attempts to make his understand how you feel. I think it's a waste of time as he has built up mental blocks against this and only the barest glimpses get through every so often. I would ask for complete NC with the OW including a job change so that he can guarantee that he will never see or speak to her again (as Melody Lane rightly says recovery can't even commence until NC is solidly in place) and he makes a firm decision to commit to you and his family.

I know this might be hard for you to read. I know that I found it hard when others said it to me but I am so glad they did. I know that this process will either give me a better M than if I would have had if I had stayed and accepted the crumbs he offered me or it will save me a year or two of heartache and stuggling before the final break-up which would be so hard on me and above all the children. So either way I'm better off. I hope you will be too.

I really do feel for you, abm. It's so tough what you are going through but don't forget that this is not of your making.

Tully, thank you for your support. It's nice to know there are others out there going through the same thing.

The funny thing is, I have spoken with the OW and she is livid because he is no longer talking to her. She even tried to stir up trouble between my WH and I. That is one of the reasons I think he is done with her, but who really knows.

I will keep up the patience and make a plan.

Yes, abm, the OW in my story was livid too. (I didn't speak to her directly but I was told by a woman who worked closely with her.) Our OW believed that my WH was going to leave me for her once I found out and was furious with WH not only for not leaving but also for trying to break contact with her. She accused him of 'using her', she threatened to self-destruct her own career, she cried oceans of tears over the phone, she begged for 'just a few kind words to help me through this' etc etc. Nevertheless the contact continued all the same. It was reduced when I was furious but it rekindled as soon as I relaxed.

I suspect the same is true in your situation. I might be wrong and I hope I am but I don't think so.

Well, she would, wouldn't she!

Put it this way, my WH and I put together an agreement that was fair to both of us in case we were to split. This agreement was very important to him.

Once we signed it, he sent one text message to the OW telling her that he does not want anything to do with her anymore. He signed a contract that included not contact we with her and he would not break that. He told her not to try to contact him either because then the contract would be null and void. He seems very serious about it because he would worried I would try to take everything from him if we split.

Trust me, it still is in the back of my head that there may still be contact, but there are several reasons that I beleive there isn't. However, I cannot control that until he wants to make it work.