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Grrrr....

My sister called this morning. She talked to my DD-15 last night. She suggested that I start letting DD start spending time with WW. (her step mom - not her biological mom) She said she understands how I feel about OM. That really pisses me off. Until she's been where I've been she has no concept of how I feel. It's the unspoken "just get over it" mentality that irritates me.

She said that DD knows that it hurts me that she wants to spend time with WW and that I need to find a way to defuse that. Keep her from pushing that button so to speak. She said that I can do that by letting DD spend time with WW. She said that DD thinks of WW as mom and doesn't think of her biological mother as Mom. She does have a point... But it still irritates me that she thinks she know's how I feel.

WW never accepted my kids. She always treated her daughter differently than my kids. My DD-15 really needed a positive female in her life and always wanted to make that mother-daughter connection with WW. But WW didn't let her get too close, never wanted to commit just in case things between us didn't work out. So she always kept her at arms length.

I feel like this is just manipulation by my DD and by my WW. A way of trying to inflict more pain on me... Maybe not... but that's how it feels.

I need a little guidance and advice here....

Pepperband, ... You've always given me pretty wise counsel... any thoughts?

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Amazin Offline OP
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Pep, Mel, or any of the other vets ...

I know you're helping Julie. But when you get a chance I could use some of your expert advice and counsel.

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Let me think about it and I'll get back to you.

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Amazin Offline OP
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Thanks Pep...

I have a minor emergency ... My basement is flooding. So If I don't get back right away that may be why.

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Originally Posted by Amazin
My sister called this morning. She talked to my DD-15 last night. She suggested that I start letting DD start spending time with WW.

Amazin, you are getting great advice from WildHorses and Chailover. Pep has also raised an unruly child so maybe she can offer her perspective. I don't have much to offer because I have not raised wild children, only BEEN ONE. And the above really stood out to me.

Please do not allow your DD to go around your WW because she will screw with her mind. Cheaters teach children that wrong is right and that anything is acceptable in the pursuit of "happiness." A wayward is dangerous to the developing minds of children. My father had my mind screwed up well into my 30's with his "moral guidance."

Your DD has been through so much, she doesn't need to be tainted even more by a wayward.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by Amazin
I feel like this is just manipulation by my DD and by my WW. A way of trying to inflict more pain on me... Maybe not... but that's how it feels.

You are entitled to your feelings.
However, I doubt they get together and discuss ways to "inflict more pain on Amazin".

They both want to break rules.
That is their bond.

Tell your sister that you are trying to teach your daughter to respect rules and that you know for a fact that sending DD to a known cheat and rule-breaker will be detrimental, and a mistake you'd feel bad about in the future. So, the answer is "no".

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Amazin Offline OP
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Thanks Mel.

I don't know what to think about DD going to spend time with WW. She loves her Step sister. The main problem I have with it is her being around OM.

I read an article on the family life website today. Maybe this will give everyone an insight into what I've done wrong as a parent and what I'm trying to change.

Here's a link.

How to Discipline a strong willed child.

And here's a snippet of what I'm talking about.


Quote
Setting Boundaries … And Keeping Them

What about the parent who sets the boundaries, witnesses her child cross them, follows through on the predetermined discipline, and then begins to feel sorry for her child, and cancels the punishment in midstream, before the entire "sentence" is served? Woe to that parent. The fancy term for what transpired is intermittent reinforcement. Modern science has proved that sporadically reinforced behavior is very difficult to extinguish.

Parents exercise intermittent reinforcement for two main reasons. They feel sorry for their child. (After all, Little Johnny has been inside for two whole days now, and all the neighborhood kids are frolicking right outside his window.) Or, they are too exhausted to administer the punishment. Strong-willed children are persistent, and as the parent of one, it is important for you to be more persistent. If your strong-willed child can wear you down or convince you that you were overboard with your discipline, he will. If you are inconsistent with your discipline, your strong-willed child will battle longer, imagining that this is another time that you will give in. If you are consistent, the chances of your strong-willed child eventually giving up the fight are increased.

Giving in is the opposite of winning the battle. It is losing the battle. Remember that winning the battle is one of the "Rules of the Road" for a successful journey. I was most guilty in this department when it came to potty training. Again, there was a stark contrast between my first, compliant child, and my second, strong-willed child.

I can still hear my mother saying, "All you have to do is feed him oatmeal for breakfast, every day at the same time, and then have him sit on the potty." It sounds so simple, doesn't it? And that is exactly what I did with Matthew, and within weeks he was done having accidents. (Do I need to remind you again of my amazing skills as a mother? Just wait, my big head will deflate soon enough.) So what did I do with Aaron? Why, of course, I did the same thing. And when he didn't respond as rapidly as his older brother, I immediately tried plan B. That was the reward plan, as I recall. And in a few days when that had no obvious result, I went to plan C. I think that one was some kind of a point system. By plan F, I was thoroughly frustrated with Aaron and with potty training. Talk about something that he alone was able to control. In retrospect, I realize that I was not consistent or persistent. I intermittently reinforced his noncompliance by switching strategies. In short, I didn't do a very good job. Fortunately, he finally decided that it was in his best interest to join the ranks of the potty trained.

Parents, every day you have to decide where you'll draw the line—what behavior is permissible and what will not be tolerated. You'll have to be ready for battle every day until your child makes his own decision to stop battling. The hope is that his determination for control will lessen each day. But until he decides to acquiesce, I guarantee you that you will be pushed and tested. The more often you give in, the worse it will get, and the longer the process will take. If you hold firm, your strong-willed child will eventually give up engaging in many of the fights. Don't be shortsighted. Raising a strong-willed child is not a sprint; it's a marathon.


“Parents exercise intermittent reinforcement for two main reasons. They feel sorry for their child. (After all, Little Johnny has been inside for two whole days now, and all the neighborhood kids are frolicking right outside his window.) Or, they are too exhausted to administer the punishment.”

That's the mistake I made with this child. I'm trying to correct it. And it was also one of the biggest complaints my WW had.

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Their other bond is they both desire an adolescent life style. Complete freedom from rules, but someone else pays the bills.

Get your DD into some sort of military based social network for teens. Some activity where they reach out and help others.

Volunteer yourself and DD to go feed the homeless, volunteer your time (together) where she is giving of herself.

If DD goes visiting WW, DD's selfishness will reach new heights.

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You are entitled to your feelings.
However, I doubt they get together and discuss ways to "inflict more pain on Amazin".

I don't think they sit around and say "How can we make Amazin more miserable"

But I think both of them know that it bothers me and are more than willing to push my button.


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Originally Posted by Amazin
But I think both of them know that it bothers me and are more than willing to push my button.
move your buttons


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Amazin Offline OP
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Thanks for that... Laughter is good medicine.


I've been working on that as a matter of fact. One of the girls from church gave me a little excersise. Discovering your core fear. And the fear cycle. It helps you to see what buttons are being pushed.

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There is an excellent book on Amazon called "Back in Control". A friend told me about it back when our kids were teens. The program takes some work and you can't be lazy about it, but it works WONDERS and very quickly - you will see results in just a month or so. Try to get it.

Our 15 year old daughter was a terror and out of control and it changed her quickly.

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Amazin Offline OP
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Thanks Believer laugh

I'll look for it.

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Originally Posted by Amazin
Thanks for that... Laughter is good medicine.


I've been working on that as a matter of fact. One of the girls from church gave me a little excersise. Discovering your core fear. And the fear cycle. It helps you to see what buttons are being pushed.
grin

I'm serious
move your buttons


do not react as expected
practice a blank stare until you can do it at will and under duress (it helps to sing a song in your head as you do this)
imagine your body in a hazmat suit like this - impermeable to all insults and goading

be warned - when you move your buttons - the monkey REALLY pushed harder - in an attempt to regain control over the situation


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Quote
Setting Boundaries … And Keeping Them

What about the parent who sets the boundaries, witnesses her child cross them, follows through on the predetermined discipline, and then begins to feel sorry for her child, and cancels the punishment in midstream, before the entire "sentence" is served? Woe to that parent. The fancy term for what transpired is intermittent reinforcement. Modern science has proved that sporadically reinforced behavior is very difficult to extinguish.

Parents exercise intermittent reinforcement for two main reasons. They feel sorry for their child. (After all, Little Johnny has been inside for two whole days now, and all the neighborhood kids are frolicking right outside his window.) Or, they are too exhausted to administer the punishment. Strong-willed children are persistent, and as the parent of one, it is important for you to be more persistent. If your strong-willed child can wear you down or convince you that you were overboard with your discipline, he will. If you are inconsistent with your discipline, your strong-willed child will battle longer, imagining that this is another time that you will give in. If you are consistent, the chances of your strong-willed child eventually giving up the fight are increased.

Giving in is the opposite of winning the battle. It is losing the battle. Remember that winning the battle is one of the "Rules of the Road" for a successful journey. I was most guilty in this department when it came to potty training. Again, there was a stark contrast between my first, compliant child, and my second, strong-willed child.

I can still hear my mother saying, "All you have to do is feed him oatmeal for breakfast, every day at the same time, and then have him sit on the potty." It sounds so simple, doesn't it? And that is exactly what I did with Matthew, and within weeks he was done having accidents. (Do I need to remind you again of my amazing skills as a mother? Just wait, my big head will deflate soon enough.) So what did I do with Aaron? Why, of course, I did the same thing. And when he didn't respond as rapidly as his older brother, I immediately tried plan B. That was the reward plan, as I recall. And in a few days when that had no obvious result, I went to plan C. I think that one was some kind of a point system. By plan F, I was thoroughly frustrated with Aaron and with potty training. Talk about something that he alone was able to control. In retrospect, I realize that I was not consistent or persistent. I intermittently reinforced his noncompliance by switching strategies. In short, I didn't do a very good job. Fortunately, he finally decided that it was in his best interest to join the ranks of the potty trained.

Parents, every day you have to decide where you'll draw the line—what behavior is permissible and what will not be tolerated. You'll have to be ready for battle every day until your child makes his own decision to stop battling. The hope is that his determination for control will lessen each day. But until he decides to acquiesce, I guarantee you that you will be pushed and tested. The more often you give in, the worse it will get, and the longer the process will take. If you hold firm, your strong-willed child will eventually give up engaging in many of the fights. Don't be shortsighted. Raising a strong-willed child is not a sprint; it's a marathon.

This is excellent - a wonderful guide for you


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be warned - when you move your buttons - the monkey REALLY pushed harder - in an attempt to regain control over the situation

Oh I've already noticed.

The calmer I get the more she acts out. It's a battle but I'm getting better.

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Originally Posted by believer
There is an excellent book on Amazon called "Back in Control".

It looks good ! link here

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this one...


Quote
Reasoning: If adults use reasoning to change children's behavior, and the children disagree with their logic, no rules are set and the kids can do as they please.


... was the hardest bad habit for me to let go of .... I thought (wrongly) that if I explained things better, I'd have a compliant child (wrong).

I learned to say "Nevertheless, my decision is (whatever)."


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Amazin', does DD behave like a future trial lawyer?

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From your link.

Quote
If you don't clearly state your rules, whose interpretation of those rules are your children likely to use, yours or theirs?

And that's exactly why I came up with the house rules. I used the BILY website to come up with them. (Thanks again pep!)

Now what I'm trying to do is give her negative re-enforcement for negative behavior and positive re-enforcment for good behavior.

It's like before I was giving her positive re-enforcement for bad behavior. Not good. For lack of a better term I programed her this way now I'm reaping the results and having to fix it.


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