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Joined: Dec 2008
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Greetings all,
I'm new here, but have been lurking since D-Day mid November. In short, I work overseas (construction) and was separated from WH for one and a half years. We visited about 3 times within that period. He has had 3 affairs during this time. The latest one caused him to see a lawyer for a divorce. I got all fed all the typical affair jargon - we've never had passion or intimacy during our entire relationship, I wish I met her first, our marriage was a mistake, etc. Even though I didn't know it at the time, I initiated Plan A and started giving him attention and affection that I had been neglecting since we have been separated (in fact, probably since we've been married). I also asked him to stop seeing OW and to join me overseas (I'm in SE Asia; He was in the States). After much back and forth, he finally quit his job and joined me about 3 weeks ago. I thought we were on the fast track road to recovery since there was no way to continue to OW and we were having the time of our lives enjoying each other company like we haven't done in a really long time. However, I was seriously mistaken. I did some snooping and found out he had been contacting OW (via phone and email) while I was at work. I realize now that I shouldn't have revealed so soon that I knew about it, but I confronted him each time (no LB's though). Just sincerely asked him to stop contacting her so that we could begin to rebuild. Well imagine my surprise when I came home one night and he had his bags packed ready to go back to the States. He denied that he was going back to her, but we all know that was a lie. For whatever reason, he decided to stay. Latest NC email was sent 22Dec. This time he finally let me see it. I doubt he is being sincere about NC, but we'll see.

My major concern and reason for posting today is that even though I'm meeting all his emotional needs and then some, he is on a different continent from OW, and there has been no other major baggage effecting our marriage until now, he still plans to leave. He says that he's not in love with me anymore and that he doesn't see how the feeling will ever return. He also says that even though he and OW share a 'deep emotional connection' like he's never experienced before, he won't go back to her because he knows it would never work out. He's also showing signs of entitlement. I've seen a couple of emails to friends where he says that he is going to take advantage of his "sugar momma" as payback for the support he's given me in the past. When I ask him why he wants to leave when I'm meeting all of his needs, he says that he just wants to start over.

I believe I've seen postings on this type of situation before. I'm just curious to know how to approach it. Just continue executing Plan A and wait for the fog to clear? What if he does leave and tries to start over? I don't think he will actually do it, but I want to be prepared if it happens.

I suppose a little history would help. We've been married 4 years, but together for 9. Me - 28, WH - 29. No kids and no plans for any. Educated professionals. Enjoy similar interests - traveling, trying new things, culture, etc. I created the environment for the affairs by moving overseas in May 2007 thinking that he could handle the separation like I was able to (didn't know that affection was a huge EN for him). Unfortunately, we ended up creating completely separate lives. I got so used to my independence, I took another job in July of this year that would prolong our separation. He got extremely resentful that I didn't want us to be together. November 1, he told me he wants a divorce. The next week he revealed A.

Would greatly appreciate any advice on the matter. This website has been a wonderful tool.

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Frankly if you have no kids together what is really keeping you together? He's cheated on you 3 times, why wait for the fourth?

Probably not what you want to hear but I'll give it to you regardless. If you expect fidelity, find someone who can provide it.

MikerD


I was the BS - 36
She was the WS - 36, PA with MM
DS8, DD13, DD15 - All living with Dad
DDay 05/04, Divorced 08/05
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What strikes me most about your post is the complete lack of emotion. I don't sense you have any passion for your M. I wonder if WH feels that way too. Why be married if you don't plan a family together and don't really plan to live together? Your definition of marriage and mine differ so much that I have no advice whatsoever.

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 Originally Posted By: quietstorm15
Would greatly appreciate any advice on the matter. This website has been a wonderful tool.


M'd 4 years, and your H has cheated 3 times. There are no children and you basically live separate lives. You actually CHOSE a job thinking that separation would be Ok, that it would something your H could handle. People in good Ms don't choose to live apart from their spouses unless driven to do so by necessity. And finally, as one poster mentioned, there seems to be very little "passion" about your M in your post.

My suggestion would be to walk away. It sounds like what you've got is basically an M of convenience, which seems to be more of an M of inconvenience for your H. That ain't gonna work in the long run.


ManInMotion
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(see "MiM's Story" for more details)
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Since you moved overseas in May of 2007, you'll get a full year of FEIC for 2008 and probably a partial refund for a prorated FEIC for 2007 if you file an amended 2007 return. If you do get a divorce, how much additional income tax will you have to pay for the 2009 tax year?

Edited to add:

In your case, it really wouldn't surprise me if your WH didn't go back to OW as he says he will not. I think your WH truly had an exit affair and that is all he sees it as. I don't think OW is anything special to him.

Last edited by piojitos; 12/27/08 10:46 PM.
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The lack of emotion in my post is not because I don't feel it. I'm just a really straight forward person. And you're right, the passion between WH and I dropped significantly after we got married. I was extremely focused on excelling in my career, grad school, building a house, setting up 401ks, etc. I thought that the love would just always be there and that you didn't have to put as much effort into that aspect of marriage. The two years leading up to my departure have left a bad taste in his mouth.

If he will stay married to me, I've told him that I would give up my career dreams so that we won't have to be separated anymore (to address your comment about living separately). And our relationship has not always been bad. The majority of it has been really good. I would even describe it as beautiful. For whatever reason, I forgot that. But I remember now and I will do whatever it takes to preserve us.

Hopefully, this claries things so that you could offer some advice. If not, I suppose I'm on my own then . . .

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I realize that it was a mistake to leave and I don't plan on doing that anymore. I should note that he fully supported me in the first assignment because he knew how much my career means to me. But neither he nor I knew that he could not handle the separation. Call me stupid if you will, but I guess I believed that our love would be strong enough to deal with it. Trust me, the lesson has been learned.

I'll admit my marriage was not 'good' the way it should have been. Hence, why I adore this site. I really want to do better. If I knew then what I've learned, my life wouldn't be falling apart like it is. I don't know how to explain it, but WH and I are not good apart. We are so much better together (in a partnership way) . And now that I've learned the tools for a successful marriage, I just want the chance to be the spouse that I always should have been. Really hoping there is a veteran out there that can help me with that.

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Straightforward person or not, for someone who has just lived Dday, your "composure" says a lot about you and your recent description of your career plans enforces that. You want a clean cookie-cutter marriage that earns at least 6% annual return. I think you want to save the M not to save the M but because divorce would prove you had failed. It would invalidate your life's entire premise.

WH is not what you want because he didn't buy into your 10 year business plan and you are not what he wants because he actually wants companionship.

You don't live together. You don't want to have a family together. What is it you are trying to save? A Norman Rockwell picture?

My sister was a CPA whose number one priority was money. She married another CPA whose number one priority was money. What a recipe for disaster! (and it was).

There is a lot that you could learn here so your next relationship might have a better chance of success.

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 Originally Posted By: piojitos
Straightforward person or not, for someone who has just lived Dday, your "composure" says a lot about you and your recent description of your career plans enforces that. You want a clean cookie-cutter marriage that earns at least 6% annual return. I think you want to save the M not to save the M but because divorce would prove you had failed. It would invalidate your life's entire premise.

WH is not what you want because he didn't buy into your 10 year business plan and you are not what he wants because he actually wants companionship.

You don't live together. You don't want to have a family together. What is it you are trying to save? A Norman Rockwell picture?

My sister was a CPA whose number one priority was money. She married another CPA whose number one priority was money. What a recipe for disaster! (and it was).

There is a lot that you could learn here so your next relationship might have a better chance of success.




We'll have to agree to disagree on the reason for my composure. I don't know how else to explain it other than I don't like to dwell in misery. In fact, I thought that was the entire purpose of Plan A - to focus on improving yourself so that you don't resort to being a complete basket case. You become a better you to make yourself more attractive to your spouse, right?

We live together now. Not sure why you think that we still live apart. And I'm not sure why us being childfree is an issue either. I never said that money was my number one priority. What is wrong with being ambitious? I'm really confused. I didn't realize that you had to have certain qualifications to seek help on this site. I thought it was designed to help anyone who wants to save or improve their marriage. I realize that I've made mistakes, but that is why I'm here.

So I think that the original intent of my post has been lost in the string of criticisms. I'll pose the question again so that hopefully, someone out there can help me. Are there any threads available that discuss WS's desire to start over and address whether or not this feeling is a symptom of the fog?

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I'm going to have to disagree with the other posters. Some people are more private and just don't express their emotions to strangers. We're used to seeing BS's who are falling apart and at their rope's end.

I see that you have realized and admitted where you messed up in your marriage. I did wonder about the sugarmomma comment though, is that how your WH sees you? Men are funny creatures (no offense guys) but sometimes they need to feel needed. Yes, you are trying to meet your WH's needs, but do YOU have any needs that he could meet? Does he know this? Or does he think you're totally independent and self-sufficient?

I would say that in your Plan A you should LOOK for ways for your WH to meet your needs (i.e., WH, I've got this problem and I just can't figure it out (computer, whatever) will you help me? See? You may be able to do it just fine... there's nothing wrong with letting your husband be a man. He may feel emasculated by your independence. I know, because I was that way prior to my H's affair(s).

What can you do to improve yourself and become a better wife? Not just a partner... but a wife. Men thrive on compliments, recognition for their abilities, HEARING the things they do right. Not fake... but REAL things.

Give up your job. Let your husband provide for you, spiritually, emotionally and mentally for awhile, if he will. Maybe it's not too late.


Widowed 11/10/12 after 35 years of marriage
*********************
In a sense now, I am homeless. For the home, the place of refuge, solitude, love-where my husband lived-no longer exists. Joyce Carolyn Oates, A Widow's Story
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Yes, he thinks I'm completely independent and feels that I don't need him. And in truth, I am and it is very difficult for me to let that go (hence, my goof up by leaving last year). I'm positive that is why he was so into these other women. They completely adored him and treated him like gawd because he was so out of their league. I understand that now and have started being more affectionate and complimentary. I will be the first to admit that I didn't have a lot of respect for him before. I still saw him as the 19 year old boy I grew up with. Now, he is this magnificant man (with faults of course) who's making me want to go out of my way to keep him. It's strange, I can't stop myself from staring sometimes he looks so different.

I'm not sure if he'll buy the whole, honey can you help me act. I've been this way for 9 years. In fact, it's always been the other way around with me taking care of stuff for him. It will be suspicious if I suddenly couldn't do things that I could before. Thanks for the tips though. I will try to come up with some way to do that without making it too obvious. As for being a better spouse, I'm just trying to follow the tools that I've found on this site - minimizing LB's, filling his love bank, etc. He's even told me that I'm a completely different woman, the woman that he's always wanted me to be. I'm just trying to get him to hang around long enough so that the fog will lift and my efforts can take full effect.

As for quitting my job, I would hope he wouldn't allow it to come to that. He knows how hard I've worked and how much I enjoy what I'm doing. I mean, I'm scaling way back on my dreams already. What I have tried to do is encourage him to use this opportunity (since he's not working) to figure out what he wants to do. Like I mentioned before, he was a phenomenal support system for me when I was juggling career and school. I keep telling him that it's his turn now to find something that gives him fullfillment like I have.

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 Originally Posted By: princessmeggy
I would say that in your Plan A you should LOOK for ways for your WH to meet your needs (i.e., WH, I've got this problem and I just can't figure it out (computer, whatever) will you help me? See? You may be able to do it just fine... there's nothing wrong with letting your husband be a man. He may feel emasculated by your independence. I know, because I was that way prior to my H's affair(s).


Hope I'm not jumping to conclusions too soon, but I think this method might actually work. Like I said before, he heavily depends on me for decision making. So last night before we went out, I told him to pick out something for me to wear. Usually, I never ask his opinion on things like that AND he relies on me to tell him what to wear. So naturally, I got a funny look and a reply 'you don't need me to dress you'. So I told him that I wanted to be his Barbie doll and need for him to dress me. Surprisingly, he did (not physically of course, he just selected something for me for once instead of me giving him direction on what to do). Do you know the funny thing is he picked out exactly what I was going to wear? Perhaps we are on the same page a lot more than I thought.

Back to the point - during the course of the evening, he seemed a lot more attentive and affectionate than he has been over the last month. He reached to hold my hand first. He even put his arms around me a couple of times. And he was generous with compliments as well. It seemed like his attitude towards me shifted from 'old friends' to 'romantic'. And this morning, when I asked him how he was feeling, he told me he was great. I was really surprised because his answer since he arrived is usually just 'fine' or 'okay'.

Not sure if this means anything, but I'll keep trying it out. I will not get my hopes up though. I've been blindsided too many times already to let my guard down.

So thanks for the tip princessmeggy. I appreciate your support.

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qs,

Since you strike me as a consistently analytical person, I will offer my analytical POV.


Your approach to this problem is one of businesslike coldness.

The issue isn't one that can respond to data management, or a bullet-point list.


You need to get in touch with your emotional side, and let your husband into that part of you.

His emotional need is........AFFECTION.


There is no business approach to that, qs.

Look into your heart and touch those things that went to sleep when you entered business school.



Warm them up.




And let your husband see them again.



Those are the things that will save your marriage.




And get some lingerie. Follow the marketing advice on what to do with it.







SB


Lucky to be where I am, in a safe place to get marriage-related support.
Recovered.
Happy.
Most recent D-day Fall 2005
Our new marriage began that day. Not easily, but it did happen.
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 Originally Posted By: schoolbus
qs,
Your approach to this problem is one of businesslike coldness.


Again, I am amazed at how negatively I'm being judged. How is my approach one of businesslike coldness? I'm following the exact recommendations provided on this website. I'm not doing anything differently from anyone else. So anyone who implements Plan A is coldhearted? All I'm looking for is some clarification on symptoms of the fog, specifically when the WS states that they want to start over on their own.

Honestly, I didn't want to focus on my emotional turmoil because it does not compare to what other people on this site are going through. My M does not involve children who will be scarred for life by a family that is being ripped apart. I am not under any financial duress. We don't have depression issues or abuse stories to share. I felt it would be inconsiderate since my situation is so much more tame than others that have posted here. Who am I to complain that I had no idea how painful and empty it feels to truly not feel loved anymore? Who am I to complain that my productivity at work is crap now because I spend half my day crying in the bathroom and the other half looking at OW's myspace page? Who am I to complain that he's never written anything to me like the love letters that he wrote to her (he wishes he met her first, she's his best friend, he's never met anyone special like her, she's so beautiful)? Who am I to complain that everytime after we have SF, I feel like [censored] becuase I know that he told her she was the best lover that he's ever had even though he tells me our SF has been amazing? Who am I to complain how [censored] it fells when he tells our friends that he's unhappy and in a loveless situation? Who am I to complain that I know that he talked to me on the phone while I was busting my ass overseas, hung up and went upstairs for SF with his other woman AND it turned on her on? Who am I to complain that I hate feeling not good enough? I know I'm better than this. I'm young, smart, attractive, fun, financially secure, creative. I used to feel good about myself. Most importantly, I used to feel (and many others viewed me) as strong. And I should be. I should be able to keep it together becuase my situation is nowhere near as bad as the others who have posted on this site.

There you happy now? You can add inconsiderate to my other list of negative characteristics. In case you forgot, I believe the other two are passionless and coldhearted.

Thanks for nothing . . .


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