ABM,

Are you familiar with the LB (Love Bank) concept? Have you read about that here? Have you read SAA? How is your LB doing? Are you starting to doubt your love for WH? If you are getting to that point then you absolutely must go to Plan B before the remaining love that you have for WH is gone. Plan B is to protect that remaining love. It removes you from the day-to-day drama and the hurtful things that WH says that continue to make withdrawals from your LB. You must stay very cognizant of your own feelings towards WH. In my case, I didn't pay close enough attention to my own LB and WW pretty much made daily withdrawals. One day I woke up and my LB was on empty. I couldn't seem to turn it around. As much as I wanted to save my family the withdrawals that WW had made had drained me to the point of not wanting anything to do with her. That was 2 months ago and we are now seperated heading toward Plan D. Even now, when my mind tells me I should fight to save my family I cannot get motivated due to the lack of feelings for WW. I'm pretty sure that her A is now ended and even that isn't enough any longer. That is why you really have to pay close attention to your own feelings and if you are in danger of ending up where I am then you need to get to Plan B immediately!!

If you haven't done so already, spend some time reading Tully's thread. She doesn't have a recovered M and she might never have one but I feel strongly that she has followed the Harley plans about as closely as one can. She has incredible strength and determination. Spend some time learning her story.

It's extraordinarily hard to recover a M even under the best of circumstances which is why following the plans is so crucial. You have to understand the plans and execute them. As Dr. Harley says, there is a very narrow path to recovery...therefore you must stay on that path.

Mindshare

HELP, I need to go to plan b but would like some advice on how to handle it.

My very disrespectful WH is out to dinner with another woman tonight, but supposedly not the one he had the A with. Either way, I cannot take him living in this house and disrespecting me anymore.

I can't decide if I want to just put a few of his things together and put them outside, lock the doors, and leave him my letter when he tries to come home tonight. Or if I want to try to let him be here with the kids through the Christmas and then make him leave.

The other thing I need an opinion about is this. I know one of the reasons he wants out of this marriage is so he can be a single man and do what he wants with no responsibilities. This evening before I decided to go to plan b, I sent him a text saying that there are 3 nights a week that he will need to be here and responsible for the kids. This is a major change for him because I am always responsible for them. So, do I make him stick to that in plan b so he sees what is it like to be responsible for the kids and not have so much freedom. Or do I only let him see the kids every other weekend as we had previously agreed? Which one do you think would help him come to his senses if either? I know that is not a guarantee but I don't want to let him just walk away from his responsibility of the kids either. He has always put them on me the majority of the time. I love them to death, but how I a supposed to concentrate on me?

I need some advice fast, please help.

abm, you can't go into plan B until you get him out of the house. My suggestion would be to get him to move out and THEN go dark into Plan B.

And you would not want him in the house at all during Plan B, so I wouldn't suggest asking him to watch the boys IN YOUR HOUSE. He can, however, pick them up for visitation. You would want to work out a visitation schedule and attach it to your Plan B letter. And when he picks up or drops off the kids, he can stay in the driveway.

Plan B requires that all ESSENTIAL communication go through an intermediary.

The hardest part visitation is going to be that he will probably be staying with his grandmother who lives an hour away. So if he had visitation for an evening, the kids would be spending most of the evening in the car instead of spending time with dad. So that is why I would probably just leave and let him be here with the kids.

Is it best to go to plan b at the same time I tell him he has to move out or let him move out first?

Do I do it now or after christmas?

That would defeat the purpose of Plan B to allow him in the house and make it easy for him. He has to figure out his visitations. He can pick up the kids and take them out to eat at a restaurant close by. But you shouldn't leave your home to accommodate a cheater. That helps no one.


You can't go into Plan B until he moves out, so you would want to get him out first.


That is up to you. But if I were in your shoes and my H was BRAZEN about flaunting his adultery, I would do it before Christmas to give him a taste of what he wants: the SINGLE LIFE. Let him spend Christmas alone.

Hi abm,

I hope you are well. I noticed your new thread asking about changing a WS. I don't know the thread you are talking about, but I hope someone will bump it for you.

What is happening in your marriage now? Before Christmas you were considering Plan B. Your WH was openly dating. There were a couple of months left on the lease for your shop, and this was making it difficult to establish NC. How are things now?

abm,

On your first thread here you wrote

You must have been 17 when you got together and he 20, and he already had a son. What were the circumstances surrounding his son's birth? Was he ever married to the mother? How does he come to have custody of his son? Do your husband and son have any relationship with the mother now?

Sugarcane, thank you for your concern.


You must have been 17 when you got together and he 20, and he already had a son. What were the circumstances surrounding his son's birth? Was he ever married to the mother? How does he come to have custody of his son? Do your husband and son have any relationship with the mother now?

Yes, we have been together since I was in high school and he had just turned 21. We dated for 4 years before we married. His son was about 1.5 yrs old when we starting dating. The pregnancy was unplanned and they were not married. Up until 3 years ago, we just had his son on visitation and some summers. However, his son does not get along at all with his mom's husband. He has been living with us for almost 3 years now.

Don't get me wrong, I am not putting any blame on my DSS but it has been a factor in our marriage. My DSS has ADHD and is not very easy to handle. Add to that, my H has been gone so much working for the last 3 years, that I am taking on the responsibilty for all for kids with very little help from him. However, my H is bitter with me because my DS and I don't get along very well. My H doesn't understand that my DS behaves awful when my H is not around. This is an issue for us as you can imagine.

Here is an update on how things are going. They are still working in the same building, however, we have made changes in schedules so the chances of them accidentally seeing each other there are as little as possible. He states he wants nothing to do with her every again anyway, but who knows. He has had NC with her at all outside of work.

However, he is still not sure if he wants to make our marriage work. Also, he is not actually dating anyone, he just made that statement that he wanted to be open to it, but he was just mad at the time.

He is still living at home, but he says just as friends. I try to meet his need for SF, but he only let me once in the last 3-4 weeks. He says he is tired of sex clouding his judgement and just doesn't want to do that at all right now. And without getting to graphic, I know that he had not got any anywhere else by that one time we did.

Most days are good and we get along well, but I sure wish he would get on board with working on things. He states he still has feelings for me, but he just don't know what he wants. He says he is just not at the spot yet that he wants to work on things. I think part of it is letting go of his pride and admitting how much he screwed up, then have to actually do work to fix things.

I have been doing a lot of thinking and talking to people we have known for years and nobody we know can actually see him leaving our family. In fact, many of them agree with us that they think this all started because he was and still is depressed and overworked. He told me yesterday that he would be willing to see an IC, but not a MC at this point. I think I will try to set the appointment for him or he will just push it off. I am wondering though if he should see a counselor or an actual pschyciatrist.

I have thought about moving to plan B, but I am still doing okay at this point. Also, I have been seeing small improvements with us, so I am not sure what to do.

Thank you all so much for your support and advise. You have no idea how much you have helped me. Keep it coming......

abm, thank you for your reply. Your answers have given a better picture of how things have been between you during the marriage. How do you feel about continuing in the marriage with things the way they are? Is there some change that has made you post here again? You haven't asked for any specific help.

When WH makes his statements about living separate lives, does he expect you to look after his son?

On 22nd December you wroteSo, is it true to say

?

On Decemeber 22nd he was just out to dinner with one of our long time friends, but he was just being vague and suspicious to upset me at the time.

I guess my question for you all is this: How should I move forward? Should I continue as things are going and hope that he gets to the point that he wants to work on things? Or do I move to plan B?

It's kinda frustrating because it seems as if we are making baby steps in the right direction, but he still says he does not want to put any effort into our marriage right now. He only agreed to NC because our agreement we made about how we would handle things if we did seperate, which was very important to him.

He says I am still his best friend, but he is not in a place in his mind that he wants to work on our marriage.

He is not seeing anyone else and the only female he talks to is that good friend of ours, actually we both talk to her on a regular basis. She is going through some rough things right now.

Also, I keep testing to see if he is willing to let me meet his need (and mine) for SF. He has just the once in the last few weeks, but he seems to be warming up to the idea.

So, do I just try to have patience and give him a little space to move through withdrawel. Or do I push the issue of actually working on our marriage by going to plan B?

Thanks for your help.

Have you verified no contact?


Friends don't hurt each other the way he is hurting you.


A husband should NEVER have another woman confiding in him about ANY problems in her life. Going to dinner with her without you? Playing games to make you jealous?


There are differing opinions on this. Are you SURE there is no contact? If you are, then SF is NORMAL for a marriage and a way to meet his needs.


Withdrawal can only occur if there is NO contact. Again, are you SURE there is no contact with OW or a new OW?

I have verified NC except for the issue at work that I have previously discussed. Right now, we are doing whatever we can to make sure the are not in the same building at the same time, but until our lease is up, we can't just walk away from our business.

He knew that I really wouldn't like the idea of him going to dinner with this woman, even though she was a friend. I think that's why he was trying to hide it. However, I have talked to her about it and she now understands my point of view and will no longer see him unless I am there.

That's exactly what I mean though, he has NC with the OW (except unavoidable at work). He states that he can't even stand to see her and is not speaking with her. He may still be triggered, but the affair is over and that's all we can do right now. But since he states he does not want to work on our marriage, he doesn't care if I approve of him going out to dinner with a female, even if it is a friend of ours.

That's why I am not sure how to proceed. Do you go to plan b only if the affair is still going or is plan b also for if they do not want to commit to working on the marriage?

A new development. My WH is now stating that he thinks he should move out and go stay with his grandma.

I have no idea what to think of this and I am a reck. Should I be supportive, or at least let him think I am?

Or should I see if I can talk him into staying home for a little longer?

Please help, I am lost.

Miss Allboysmom,
For me I had to decide what my limit was in terms of my WW coming around to NC and comitting to the marriage. I spent time talking to a former pastor of ours and he said the road to sucess would have some curves in it that no one could predict.. I have to say he is right (so far). I was ready to pull the trigger on plan B and the WW came around some, still not where I think it should be but at least workable for me for a while longer. My best friend warned me not to make ultimatums (great advise). There is a time a place for an ultimatums but you have to be clear in your mind that you can live with the consequenses of them.

Your plan B needs to be well thought and ready to implement. I see your WH's plan to stay at grandma's as an chance to do what he wants and still have contact with you and the kids...

I would frame it in my mind that if he is choses to move out it's time for plan B, I would have a letter written out for him spelling out the plan B to him on how contact with you will be made and how visitation with the kids will be done..... and what changes from him you need if he wants to try to reconcile.....


Keep in mind I'm same song different verse as you so my advise may not be worth much....

You are not alone.....

abm, I'm sorry to hear that your WH has stated that he wants to move out. I think you should panic about this, although you should listen to what he is saying and make your own plans accordingly.

I have had problems getting a clear understanding of your story because of the way you have told it. You have released bits of information on different problems but have not told the whole story clearly.

What do you know about what went on during the affair? Do you know how it started, and how it progressed? Where did they conduct their meetings, and how often were these? Did he ever work away from home, and if so, did she go with him? How did you find out about the affair? How did he come to be living with her when you first posted here - did he move out when the affair was discovered? What steps did you go through to allow him back - did he say that the affair was over before he moved back, or did he move back saying that he would live with you so that you could be friends for the kids, without ending the affair?

What brought on yesterday's statement that he want to live with his grandmother? Has he said what will happen to his son when he leaves?

In December, MelodyLane gave you this advice:


I think this is still the correct advice (although I see that you discovered the affair about 4 months ago, not two years ago). I don't think anything has changed for your WH. I understand that you feel that you have had a good marriage for the most part, and that your children are a big incentive for you to recover the marriage. However, your WH seems determined to live his life exactly as he pleases, as a single man. That is not marriage, and I don't know why you would try to stay with a husband who wants to live this way.

I understand your despair. It would be a good thing for you to see your doctor if you think you are not coping very well. However, the best help for your marriage would come from a telephone counselling session with one of the Harleys. You should book one right away via the Coaching Centre link on the web site.

Your WH was seeing a counsellor in October. Is he still doing so?

As far of the history of the affair, it goes something like this. My WH does not travel for his job, however, he works a full time job and runs the retail side of our business therefore he is not home very often. The affair starting with joking around with each other about one kind of sex act that I did not like to do and then moved forward from there. They went to her place for brief moments when he had a short amount of time between the store and his regular work shift.

I had some suspicions of this girl early on, but of course listen to him when he had reasonings and reassured me that I was just worrying, HAHA. He told me himself on 10-8-08. I then, before I found MB, told him he needed to get out of the house and he went to go stay with her while looking for an apartment. Within a couple weeks, he was making every excuse not to be at her place when she was there. He would use it as a place to sleep during the day (he works 3rd shift) as she was at work.

As far as him coming back home, he came home because he had a jealous fit when a male that I used to be friends with called. This man is still friends with my brother and had heard what was going on and he called to chat and check if I was okay. Well, he happened to call when my WH was here seeing the kids. My WH was made and said it was his house and he was coming home and maybe the kids and I should find a place to move, haha, ya right. Within a day or two he made sure to tell me that he did not expect the kids and I to move, he just said it because he was upset. At that time, he was still talking to the OW, but there was no more physical contact except in passing at work. I was just so glad that he was coming back home and not staying with her, I just let it happen without any stipulations. He didn't say this at first, but most of the time since then he says we are just friends and staying in the same house for the kids.

However, back in early December we had a long talk and he said he was willing to work on our marriage for 3 months and see what happened. Well, that only lasted a couple days and he said he didn't to commit to that.

His statement about moving to his grandmothers came about after he found me snooping. He says he thinks it would be for the best right now. Of course, cause he wants to act like he is single and not have anyone to answer to. He has talked about going to his grandmother's previously, however, he still stays here.

As far as my DSS goes, I have already told both my WH and him that he would be able to stay here with his brothers. Keep in mind, I have been in his life since he was a baby. I would not want him to have to switch schools, as school is hard enough for him. My WH said way back in the beginning that he would find an apartment in the area and my DSS could move with him, but that is not possible. My WH works overnights and DSS cannot be alone every night. My DSS mother and I have talked and both agreed it would be okay for him to stay here.

He only saw the counselor once or twice back in October. However, he has stated again recently that he is willing to go to IC but not MC. I plan on making an appointment for him today because if I leave it to him, he will just push it off.

I hope that makes things a little more clear. If you have any other questions, please let me know. Thanks again.

Thank you for your reply abm. I don't have any expertise on these forums except with my experience of how hard it can be to remove a persistent OW from a marriage, mainly because the WH encourages her presence. I asked the questions because I think it helps to know how deeply embedded the affair is and whether a WH is an unapologetic cake-eater. If he is, it might well be the case that he is not suited to marriage and will repeat this behaviour in the future. Your H seems to take his responsibilities to his children seriously, but I wonder about his attitude to marriage.

You said,

My DSS mother and I have talked and both agreed it would be okay for him to stay here. (End quote.)

Your stepson's mother is asking you, and not the child's father, to take care of him so that her own marriage has a chance of success. I know that you love this child whom you have known since he was a baby, and that you do not want to add to the problems that he has faced in his life. You do not want to punish him for his father's behaviour, and of course you cannot see his father leave him alone at nights should he get his own apartment. However, I wonder if you should take on the child's mother's responsibility like this.

You said:

His statement about moving to his grandmothers came about after he found me snooping. He says he thinks it would be for the best right now. (End quote.)

This is a very telling response to snooping. He could have shown you whatever you were trying to see because he has nothing to hide. He could have done this even if he had been angry at your not trusting him.

Instead he says he will move out. Why?

What were you snooping through, what did you find, and how did he catch you?

I was snooping through cell phone records and emails and found nothing. However, I did find out that right after DDay when he was not living here, he signed up on Match.com and put his profile on there. I told him I found it and it is not okay. He said that he hasnt even checked it in a long time and didn't even get any responses. I also brought up to him that I thought it was odd how he described the woman he wanted and all of the things described how I am. I think he is one of those men who lets his pride get in the way of things. He knows in his heart that I have every right to snoop, but it just bugs him.

He says that the reason he thinks he should move out is because neither of us will be able to move on like this. Like I said, he has his ups and downs with us. Somedays making it feel like there is hope for us and others he is talking about moving on. How confusing

Oh, I almost forgot. I wanted to share the text message exchange we had this morning and get feedback from you all about it.

Me: I just wanted to to tell you that I am definitely done bugging you. I decided that I am a wonderful person and shouldn't have to convince anyone to want to be with me.

WH: You are so correct. It is about time you see that. I am proud of you.

Me: Hopefully you will pull your head out of your behind (okay I used the other word)and see it before it is too late.

WH: Hopefully

Okay, let me know what you think of this conversation and how I should proceed.

Thanks