Seabird, no 2x4s. Just folks saying, wow, do you see how you've been blessed, in a way that so many others aren't, with time with your kids.

Unreasonable demand? Is it unreasonable, to ask you for help? Really? Isn't that what you want your kids to see, that folks ask for help when they need it? You're still assuming this is a want, not a need. Is it a demand? That's what I was trying to say, that she came to you ASKING for help.

You don't need to do something that you're unenthusiastic about. We're asking you to consider, what would make you enthusiastic? About finding a win-win on this?

Doesn't sound like a 'scheduling' problem to me.

It sounds like adults who have kids that are getting in the way of them having a life.

committed

BC - Ah, okay. I understand. Setting my boundary there was really the only arrow left in my quiver. I didn't like using it.

But this has been building for over a year, unfortunately. During the separation, I asked to do an even custodial split. She said, "No. This is what the state says I can have. I won't talk about it anymore."

Then I asked if we could negotiate the CS. Perhaps determine their monthly expenses, and divide that up, 50/50. With a provision to revisit things every 3 years. Her response: "No. This is what the state says I can have. I won't talk about it anymore."

Every time she has asked me to watch the kids, I have agreed. EVERY TIME! And there have been many.

When I ask her, the response I usually get is, "Nope. Sorry. I have plans.".

I'm done with it.

To be clear, I am STILL willing to cover her post surgery week.

I am asking for a few hours in return, the Sat before her surgery. I am asking her to make good on her promise to help from several months ago.

Her answer, "No. I will be too tired.".

And you sound to me like someone applying their own prejudicial perspective. You want to judge me based on this exchange? Go right ahead. Say whatever you like. Doesn't mean that it's true.

Everyone else in our real life doesn't share your observation.

No, Oh Brother Where Art Thou, not bonafide...

Just did that triathalon.

Not a 180-mile tiered training, minimum.

Are you doing this as a personal test? A passion? A lifetime fulfillment? Is it a one-time only, one-shot goal?

Or are you doing it with acceptance you are going to do your best?

Again, not mechanics...if one of your children was at the emergency room that Saturday morning, I don't think the ride would have the importance it does right now.

That would be an external event influencing your internal choice.

Very difficult part of divorce, I believe, is to no longer be a full-time husband and continue to be a full-time father. It's not a natural structure...when the structure loses it's other main post. Seems like it's more fragile and requires a different flexibility. Seems like separating yourself into two parts...splitting you.

It's all personal, SB. Your personal relationship with each of your children, your XW, your GF, everyone...it's all personal. Parenting truly isn't a job...it's a lifestyle. Sounds like you've separated single and dad...and you are a single dad.

In your marriage, your Giver helped to tank your marriage. You were reasonable, not a martyr...you gave consideration and therefore expected consideration. And she didn't give it. You knew that...she didn't see your giving as giving...it was given to get. Same for her. Why do again expect due consideration?

I'm asking about your expectations...not physical resolve to your situation at this time. I love the planning out, planning ahead...checking reality (who's turn for the children verification)...not judging you as bad or wrong, SB.

Still, I'm not bonafide.

Listen to your question back to me...I wondered what your children's experience was right now...and you asked WHY...into everyone's why's...what about reality? Do you know what they are experiencing right now?

If you struggle with expecting/requiring of your XW what you know she does not do...do you make that just for you? She only treats you that way? Or do you follow the two-way street...and what she does to you, she does to your children, too?

Or do you split her into parts, too?

My parents never discussed my father's infidelity in front of us. We knew about it. We study our parents to know who we are and if we are safe. In your case, the parents split...and nothing the kids were or could do to stop that. They were powerless. Like slaves...property...for they are your responsibility...in their care. All kids are...can seem moreso when they are handed back and forth.

It's not what you wanted for your children. Not at all. You did all you could to not have that for your children. And you've put these healthy boundaries in place to mitigate...do not negate that this truly is their experience, their reality, anyway.

They are being shuttled. They are being handed back and forth. They are being planned and scheduled. Their presence is in the way of your training one morning...and their mother's previous night's exploits. They don't know the details...they know their mom is having surgery? That's scary. Again. They know you will have them more days than their normal balance, their routine.

And they read you emotionally...that's builtin as a survival instinct. To say they have no part, don't know, are clueless is as unrealistic as saying they know all the details of Daddy trying to make Mommy do the right thing.

It's in the middle. I'm surprised at your response to her email. Made it about her and not interest in finding out what your son really thought today. He may have changed his mind...he may be of the same opinion, having the same experience...or not. He may have forgotten the incidence entirely. Doesn't say a thing about you. My expectation of you was that you'd take her email as about him...not her.

I can understand you may feel guilt...I'm not tripping you. I don't know how they feel today...what their experience is...I believe it changes. Guilt being when we don't live up to others' expectations (reasonable since that was my expectation coming at you); shame not living up to our own.

If I am out of place, a total stranger on an anonymous message board, in sharing my stuff with you...then you are seeing the world in labels, judgements, deserving and undesvered, just and unjust...unfair...and unreal. Seabird I'm acquainted with, before the possible split, was open to opinions...to the resonation of what he already knew in his chest...in fact, he considered even when he didn't feel like it.

And he experienced consideration because of it.

Are you experiencing inconsideration?

A blocking out, feeling refused, controlled, even shut out?

After you received her email, did you ask your son? Is that what you mean, he didn't answer you?

I don't see anyone's posts as complaining...I still see them as sharing. This really hits your button, riles you up...it's important enough to you to really hash out, examine, share. That's what I get. I'd get that, even if you made 100 posts a day, SB.

This matters to you. I was asking you to really look at what about it matters most to you. Use the tools you learned...reach for them...your reactivity high? Your peace low?

Real choices...you can drop the kids off at 6am anyway.

You can hire a driver to take them in the car that drives beside you while you do your training ride.

You can ask one of their playmates mother's to watch them, as was suggested. If these seem silly, sarcastic or unreal, then please, do the right thing and either cancel that training session or drop them off at her house, anyway. Leave them on the porch if she won't open the door. How far you take this boundary enforcement is yours.

Not unreal...very real actions you could choose to take. Lots of brainstorming, even asking your XW to brainstorm, too, to come up with a workable solution.

Is your intent to complete the training no matter what? Is that realistic? I don't think so. I know it's matters a lot to you and I don't know why. I don't think it's reasonable to undertake ANY thing which requires this strict of adherence in order to enjoy, because then it is a higher priority than your children.

With fragility there is flexibility...there is acceptance of imperfection, not as planned. Took me 3.5 hours to complete the triathalon...it was completing it that mattered most to me.

I still watch for getting what I want, SB...that I don't have those hidden requirements...not only what I want, but getting it when I want it and in the way I want it.

Will you do the event even if you miss that training session? Will this choice of what you're going to do matter in the next six minutes? Yes. Will it matter in the next six days? Definitely. Will it matter in six months? Six years? 60?

LA

Anyway guys, thanks for all responses. Even the ones that p'd me off. Believe it or not, I really do find value in them all. Maybe not the value that's intended, but value all the same.

Now I have to go pick up my kids that I can't be bothered to care for because I selfishly insist on having a life instead. After that, I have to selfishly feed them, and selfishly help them with their homework, and then selfishly get them showered and into bed.

Maybe we can pick this up again tomorrow after I selfishly feed them breakfast, and selfishly take them to school.

(Did I get that right? :P )

Wait...you changed something...


She drags her feet and acts put out...got that. But has she watched the kids on those mornings, anyway?

Are you not liking her actions or her presentation?

The process? Has she already watched the kids for your ride once? Twice? Will the next two be three, four, eighth time?

See, look to what you asked...she's only halfway not fulfilling her promise if this is truly only two times in the entire prep for the ride...that's not all the time or none. Just half.

The acting put out, dragging her feet is the DJs EO is pointing out...you getting into her whys...and EO has a very valid point...she's not having this surgery for no reason. There is pain involved PRIOR to it...regular, sometimes constant pain...and her mentioning the Friday night event which now is old crap and may wear her out and physically hurt...EO could be correct...she may be telling you the truth. Your assumption is driving you literally mad (as in angry).

That's my take. Change your assumption...get rid of it and start over.

You can't afford a babysitter? That's a concern to me. That's one of the reasons I believe you're cutting out alternative choices and narrowing it to making her doing this to you, slighting you with purpose...inconsiderate, failing you.

And no, no that the mother in me didn't get really ticked at her, either. Do you need to hear that? I don't like what xW said or is choosing. I'm not confusing that with the stated why at all. She's not doing.

She is sharing where she didn't need to share in her email. That didn't tick me off.

LA

Why did you ask for opinions? All you wanted was to be told you were doing the right thing.

You've wasted my precious time. You've wasted the precious time of others who were taking time out of their busy lives to help you and your family through a difficult time. You responded to the time and caring shown by people who will get absolutely nothing material from helping you by throwing a temper tantrum. Very poorly done.

Do you think that response convinced anyone that you are able to put your children's needs first? Or that rather your resentments are so strong that they take center stage?

I don't know if this will help any or not, but I have done lots of those MS bike rides. I am a single mom w/a FT job, primary custody, etc. and I am also on one of those teams. I train w/them when I can. When I can't, I either train alone or w/other people who ride when I can ride.

SB, your team is big....much bigger than mine. I may be way wrong, but I seriously doubt all of those people are going to make it to that training on that particular day. You have one day covered. For the other day,send out an email to your team and tell them you can't make the early ride and ask if there is anyone else who may want to ride later in the day. I'll bet you will get a response.

If not, you can just adopt the mindset of one of my good friends. We get on those MS rides and that first day is 100-110 miles. Someone always asks how many training rides we did or whatever. My friend answers that she did 2 rides of 25 miles each and then explains that training is overrated because if you don't train at all, you can do 100 miles in about 8 hours. If you do train, you can do it in 5-6. But, you've spent way longer than 3 hours training!

Seabird,

You are spot on and I totally agree with all of your points. I'd do the same if in your shoes.

Ronda

Seabird - this is a bit off topic, but I see you are training for a 180 mile charity bike ride in April and have training rides on Saturday mornings.....is this Saturday morning's training ride starting at a Mall and do you get the same lengthy e-mails I do from the training ride lead? I think we may be doing the same charity ride and the same training rides. If so, perhaps we could meet up while in the process. I have found MB folks to be some of the best people there are!!!

Seabird,

If we ARE doing the same charity and training rides, I may be able to help you out. My XH and his new wife are taking my son that early in the morning so that I can do the training ride. They are ok people and may be willing to take yours as well. If not and we ARE in the same city, I have a handful of VERY good sitters who may be able to help out. Let me knowl.

Okay, lots to respond to, so lets start from the top....


No. These morning requests are in the future. However, in the past, it's taken an act of Congress for her to agree to help me on anything. I don't have a graph or anything, but it's my sense that she says no more than she says yes.



I don't really care about her reasons or rationale. What I care about is the outcome. I get annoyed wither dragging her feet because it delays my being able to plan effectively.

Oh gosh, thank you sooooo much for telling me what my motivations are. Could you dust off that crystal ball and tell me what the stock market is going to do?


I wasted NOTHING. YOU chose to come in here and post, as did everyone else in here. There was no trap. There was no lure. Choosing to take the advice of other or not take it is my prerogative. You think I should be obligated to do as you say just because you took the effort to say it?

Puh-leeze. GTFO out of my thread if you're going act like that.


Accuse me of being a poor father. Of neglecting my children.

From how many hundreds or thousands of miles away, and from behind a keyboard.

That response was sweetness and light compared how bad it could have been.

I do that as well. For instance, I will not be able to train tomorrow. I missed last week as well since it was a 5th weekend of the month. I have a carrier and pull my kids behind me. However, it's not just the distance training. As you know, its about learning how to ride in a large group. It's conditioning for hills - something we don't have here, but we will encounter on our way to Austin. I have to get some of that done.


I appreciate the suggestion starving. The team is large enough to warrant support from law enforcement and vendors. It's not just riding later. It's riding in a safe environment on a highway. I don't relish sharing the road with 70mph cars with only a handful of riders and no LEO support to help with traffic and intersections.


Honestly, that scares the devil out of me. I'd rather work toward a solution with the XW.

Rhonda - Thanks for the support! I feel confident that I'm handling this as best I can, but it's nice to know that I'm not alone too.

Brit - I think we are going to be on the same ride and on the same team. Is the organizer on your ride named Steve M?

And thanks for the offer. I really do appreciate it. I'm not comfortable relying on someone I've never met before to babysit though.

And we could certainly meet up in person. Do you work for the employer sponsoring the team as well?

---UPDATE TO ALL---

I called my mom this afternoon. Despite being my mom, she has no qualms about putting me in my place. Also, having raised me and my sibs as a single mom herself, she has a degree of empathy for the XW. Sometimes it gets on my nerves.

She also still talks to the X from time to time. They have remained friendly and when mom comes into town, the will meet for lunch and chat. They did this just after this past Christmas. I don't ask about their conversations, and I don't usually care to know.

Anyway, I called her to talk me down off the ceiling, halfway expecting her to tell me I'm being unreasonable to do whatever the X wants.

Instead, she understood my frustrations and let me vent it out. She agreed that the X was being selfish, but...

Mom suspects that the XW is acting partially out of jealousy. During our marriage, she was always the social one. She cultivated all the friendships and directed our social life. When we separated and divorced, those friends evaporated out of my life. I just assumed they went to her.

Maybe not. My mom said that the X was almost in tears talking about her Christmas Day. Apparently she spent most of her time in bed, crying. She had no one to spend the day with. She finally got out of bed and got dressed to go out and couldn't find anything open except for a Sonic.

Her Christmas was spent alone, eating a crappy hamburger.

I had my kids and my family with me.

Crap. *sigh*

She's Jewish, and it just didn't occur to me that Christmas was an important day to her. Before we met, she'd volunteer to work the switchboard at her hospital so someone else could be with their family. I just assumed that she'd do that again. It never even crossed my mind that she'd be alone. She always had a ton of friends. Where were they???

So, I got off the phone with my mom and called the XW. She was heading into a meeting and couldn't talk, but I told her that I really want to help her out and I'd like to make a good faith effort to work out some kind of solution. She thanked me and agreed to call a little later.

I'll keep you guys posted.

This is SO cool! Yes, Steve organizes our rides. My BF gets a kick out of his e-mails - calls them marathon e-mails! Says he must be an engineer or a lawyer (nice slam at me :MrEEk:)

I work for the ony very large oil company that has not merged with another. We are on the NYSE as RDS. I was interested that your XW works for a hospital...my BF works for M-H - he flies the med team if you know what I mean.

Will you be at this Saturday's ride? I am hoping to be and am on track to be there.

Just got off the phone with her. She has now agreed to watch the kids those two mornings. I will keep the kids over Spring Break.

No, I'm going to miss this next ride. It's the first weekend of the month, so I have the kids.

Steve is a part of facility safety group. That's why he focuses so much on safety in those emails.

Small world! When I met my GF, it turned out to be another coincidence that she has been riding for our team for 6 years. This year is my first ride.

And yes, I catch your meaning re flying the med team for MH. I have a ton of respect for those guys. They are crazy amazing! The XW is with a small orthopedic hospital. It's half owned by a national healthcare org out of Nashville, and half owned by a group of doctors.

I'm with COP because my old company got bought; a large independent specializing in NG production up the Rocky Mtn Fairway. I had an interview with your company last year at the tech center on OST, but I found out your whole IT team was getting outsourced, so I passed.