In the midst of my troubles, this does bring a smile. Z reveres Mr. Spock. In fact, one of my gifts to her at Christmas was to see Leonard Nimoy perform. Darth Vader was in our wedding. We wrote a script for how the Sith might handle a wedding, complete with dire consequences for violating the agreements. Darth Vader is actually supposed to hunt us down and slay us if we break our vows. That was just for the fun of it, though, for the show. Our actual vows to one another were before God, not the Sith. I have a video, but I hesitate to link it, in that I feel some comfort being somewhat anonymous. It feels easier to be frank.

Still, perhaps I will, later, if for no other reason than to demonstrate that this is far more than a couple shacking up. It is rather painful to have to spend so much time explaining myself and my views on the authority of the state versus the authority of God, or pointing out that all parties involved in the scenario view it as technicality. I really wish we could spend more time discussing the areas where we agree.

Grendel --

Seem the quick and easy answer is over on MikeC2's thread.

Email recovery of all previously deleted emails.

That should tell you what you need to know, since you have a distrust for lie-detectors.

I understand the concept of law quite well. Do you? Law is where a large group of people point guns at others and say 'Do this or we will hurt you.' Ideally, laws are force applied to ensure justice and honest dealing, but an examination of history will show you that laws are not always just or reasonable. Thinking, free men are obliged to weigh authority versus justice. That notion is enshrined in the founding documents of this country, and drilled into every man who serves in its military.

The law is a huge problem with marriages today, to be frank. I am certain that the topic of no-fault divorce and its detrimental effect on marriage has been a topic on this board. This is precisely why people have begun to circumvent the system with covenant marriages.

The very fact that law differs from state to state on this matter makes it clear that it is imprecise and capricious. Again, I note, if we lived in another state, this would be a non-issue.

There is no point in arguing state versus the authority of God.

In all seriousness, I do know that you are in pain. But, the immaturity level, arrogance and narcissism (of Zakal) is just beyond belief....
Tha facts are, as told by your story that she had sex with someone other than you. Otherwise, why all of the suspicious behavior? Unexplainable behavior I might add.

It seems as though you two are so caught up by living in a fantasy land that you fail to see the obvious. Blinded by fantasy.

My first husband was a Trekkie--I always found it quite ridiculous really. An adult playing like they were in Star Trek. There is a place for fantasy in life but our lives are not to be lead by fantasy.

Do you have a "marriage certificate". Be sensible. Nowhere have I ever heard anywhere in the 50 states, Puerto Rico, U.S. Virgin islands or any other U.S. owned territory can you marry when you are still married to someone else.

But, that is a futile argument with you.

Have the baby tested to prove paternity and if it's not yours, get the heck out. This situation is never going to improve. If anything it is going to get more ridiculous...

Mike later said it didn't work, though. :\ The one good thing that has come from our foray here is that I have been convinced that we should do the polygraph, though. I don't like it, but I do now believe it will help us find out way. I am researching it now.

To save you the search --

http://www.advancedmediarecovery.com/advanced%20windows%20mail%20recovery/index.php

Please use this quick before Z undermines it.

Do you use Outlook for email?

And, to answer your question Yes, I understand law quite well, thank you!!

What about other countries where multiple spouses are acceptable? See my point? It's why I don't care much about 'law', and care greatly about honesty and integrity, and about honoring one's agreements. The law changes. Integrity is immutable. It's a purely philosophical point, though.

We don't really disagree on the practical issues. My situation is very grim. I am aware of that. That's what I am trying to work through. I appreciate your input immensely.

Are you in one of those countries? I'm sure even in those countries that you refer to there are "laws" of sorts regarding the desolution of marriages...proper ways to do it not do it. I do understand your philosophical point however.

Yes, your situation is very grim, I agree. And, that is what this board is for--for working through and providing support. It is neither a clash of the Titans or a meeting of the minds. So, it would be much more beneficial to you (and Zakal) to speak in everyday layman's terms and not to try to display your superior intellectual worth...

Just a sidestep, please post the video. It would be very interesting and entertaining to see just exactly how a Star Wars wedding plays out.... Just a thought.

Incidentally, did you take the job in Florida? Just a curiosity issue of course.

So, what are your feelings now? What do you feel you should do? What would put you at peace? The reason I asked if you used Outlook is that deleted emails from your deleted folder are quite easy to retrieve. So, that is why the Outlook question.

Just be patient and cooperative and you will get support from this forum...

Aye. I am guilty of lapsing into formal language and philosophical debates when I am troubled. It boils down to this. By my way of seeing the world, we're married, she cheated, she won't come clean, and I am at the end of my rope. I know some people don't see it as us being married, but I just wish folks would accept that we do and counsel us as if we were. To us at least, there is no difference in our relationship and one recognized by the state, so we need counsel in that context in order to relate with it and benefit from it.


I will ask Z if she approves. It has our real names and family in it, so it leaves us a bit naked before strangers. The anonymity we have now allows a bit more openness, I think.


No, but she very much wanted me to. Even that made me wonder if she wanted to escape someone's influence. See what I mean about wondering at time if I am paranoid?


She used web based mail, so it's highly unlikely it can be recovered. Mike seemed hopeful in his thread, but he later reported it didn't work.

What would put me at peace is the woman I love giving me what I value most in life: the truth. I can't believe she loves me if she doesn't, because she knows my values. And I can't forgive what I don't know. I can't make any decisions without the facts I feel are being withheld from me, and it's tearing me apart.

Re: BigK


He's working on his post count so people will take him more seriously!

Interesting concept - perhaps we should start a new thread?

Aye. It would probably help to keep things focused. I love to debate philosophy most of the time, but right now, it just feels like I'm being kicked when I'm way down.

OK. With that said, let's just put all the BS aside here.

You are hurting and we're here to help provide some support. Can you give us some info such as your ages? I don't remember reading that in the overload of information. Not that it's important but just to let us know a little more about you...

With everything considered, I don't think that you are being paranoid at all. There are some legitimate issues here.

Z seems to have thrown in so much irrelevant material (about 85% of what she wrote) and seems to have a severe immaturity issue that she needs to address. Seems she is trying to "explain away" and make all of the nonsense things that she has done seem logical when they are not logical at all.

What is it that YOU think you need to do? If you have a polygraph (you do know that they aren't admissable in court therefore, not concrete) and she does not pass it, then what? When is the baby due? Paternity testing is a must in this case. I re-read her post this morning and one thing that really stood out to me was how she kept saying that she did not trust you??? The trust issue is HUGE... And, I really didn't understand why she was meeting with men without your knowledge...that was/is a tremendous red flag...

I'm 41, she's 29. Yes, a bit of a gap there. Right now, the issue has caused enough stress for both of us that we're pretty freaked out. It's been going on for some time, and dredging it all up to get some input from people here has made the last couple of days a living hell for us. We've just kind of let it go today. We need a little sanity.

We have discussed it, and are both resolved to do a polygraph and paternity test. To her credit, she has been the one pushing for both all along. I was onboard with the paternity test, but very leery of the polygraph. In many ways, it seemed if we had to go that far, it was an indication that we were beyond recovery, but the discussion here has convinced me that it may be the only way to get past things.

Right now, I feel that if she forces me to go the polygraph route and fails, I should walk away. But even if she isn't telling me the truth, the child may well be mine, and I am loathe to break up the family. The baby is due in a month, so it seems as if the best course of action is to do the paternity test first. With that available, I think I can make a better decision about the polygraph and how I should handle things. It means hanging in there and dealing with the doubt for another month, but I think I can cope with that. I've come this far.