My wife and I are having some great difficulties and are trying to resolve them. We feel we could use some outside perspective from people who have lived through similar situations. What we're going to do is post our stories, one after the other. They are both very long, but that is because they are complete. Please, we would welcome any input, if you have the time.

Here is mine.

We need some advice with a problem that is doing some pretty severe damage to our marriage and our mental health. It really feels like its killing us. We can’t hold it together much longer without some resolution. It’s just hurting us all too bad.

The short version is this: I feel damned certain my wife had an affair, and she denies it, sort of. But it’s a lot bigger problem than that. So settle in. This is a long one. It might be too long for some to read, but if you have the time, we could really use the help. We are in dire circumstances.

I was married before, ten years. My former wife cheated on me twice. The first time, I was clueless. I sensed some problems, but I didn’t know the truth until I was blindsided. The second time, and last, I knew what to look for. There is definitely a script of sorts, just residue that seems to leak out, no matter how careful one is. That’s over now, divorced several years back. But the scars remain. If you want the whole story, I posted it here during the thick of things, so it’s in my post history. I definitely have baggage, enough to give me pause about how I see things, but also enough to give me experience I find hard, if not impossible, to ignore.

My new wife and I have known one another about two years now, and have been committed for a little over a year, since Nov 07 when she moved in with me. I suppose I should be 100% honest here and say that we’re not technically married. This is not from a lack of desire, just legalities. She had been separated for a couple of years before we met, but the actual divorce won’t be final until May of this year. There’s no deception or anything in that regard. It’s not an affairage or anything. I know her ex, he’s a good guy as far as he and I relate, etc. He’s part of her life because they have a child together. We even had a ceremony (a Star Wars themed wedding, was a lot of fun). We certainly are married in our hearts, and will be legally as soon as it won’t result in charges of bigamy. Well, that was the plan, anyway….

Where to start? I suppose when I first got that little ‘pinprick’ that something was wrong. In January of 08, I noticed somehow, maybe saw it incoming on the phone when it was ringing, a call from a guy she had known a while, ‘J’. I had no real suspicion, but I’d been burned in the past, and felt I should at least see what this was. I checked her texts on the phone and saw he had sent texts on Thanksgiving and at Christmas. It bugged me a little, but it didn’t seem so awful. I told myself I was paranoid, that I should not let the past rule my future.

I had to work hard to overcome some of it. Her business is petsitting, and she got a lot of calls at all hours. She likewise had to go out at odd times, mornings and evenings, to feed dogs, etc. Her schedule was by nature erratic, but I thought nothing of it. I was her job, the same as it had always been.

Mid January, she injured her foot and couldn’t work for almost a month. She was pretty unhappy during this time, as you might imagine, but we managed. We had a nice Valentine’s evening. But shortly after, things changed.

She seemed to lose interest in everything. Me, her son, the house, etc. She became irritable and very critical of everyone around her, neglectful of us and the house. This also went on in the bedroom. Where previously, she was insatiable, suddenly her interest waned. She no longer initiated SF. I felt her pulling away. She would get up in the middle of the night and go to the computer, or sometimes be on the phone. On more than one occasion, I came in and she quickly closed the windows she had open, seeming panicked. This looked very bad to me, but I knew she was stressed about money and job, so I chalked it up to that. But I started to watch more closely.

In March, we discussed the possibility of taking on a roommate to help with finances, and she posted some ads on craigslist to this end. Her mood seemed to lighten a bit in regard to money, but otherwise, things remained the same. She began to insult me often, remarking on how stupid or oblivious I was, to me and to members of her family. It was done in a mostly joking manner, but it was painful when it became a regular thing. She started treating me as if I were a child.

In early April, we took a trip to the east coast for a couple of weeks so she could meet my family. She was still in this very critical state. When we returned, we had an argument where she told me how I had been disrespectful to her in a store in front of my family. I noted that it had not been my intention, but she had been mistreating me for a while, and maybe my response was at least partially motivated by my own soreness at such things. We agreed to both try to behave better toward one another.

In the latter half of April, she seemed to be doing more visits with pets in the evenings. But things were different. She was often not taking her son with her. In fact, on several occasions, she was simply gone without saying a word, and I only discovered her absence after the fact. Several of these excursions were quite long, long enough that her son became concerned and wanted me to call his Mom and ask where she was and when she was coming home (>2hrs). Sometimes she answered the phone. Sometimes she didn’t.

I began to grow more troubled about this behavior, as other things came into the picture. She took a new interest in nice clothes and makeup. She talked of changing her hair color from blonde to red. I noticed around this time that she was going through a lot of stockings, but I almost never saw her wear any. She was buying a lot of beauty products, and getting dressed up when she went out, but rarely for me. I also noticed that despite the fact that the car was very junked up, filled with trash, she would occasionally come home and detour to deposit a sack of garbage directly into the outside trash can before coming in the house. I was becoming very paranoid by this time, and looked in the bags. They had things like receipts for beauty products, wrappers for stockings, and some receipts for meals which seemed to be for more than her and her son.

I also discovered through conversation that during this time, she had gone to meet and have lunch with more than one of the applicants for the roommate spot. She had told me nothing of this until I saw a mail open on her computer from a guy named ‘S’ saying, “It was nice meeting you and your son at lunch”. I admit, I snooped at this point, and I saw conversations between the two of them that, while not clearly inappropriate, seemed much more friendly that I would have expected. She was telling him things like we had been drinking the night before and had quite a good time, which seemed a veiled reference to SF, but it could have been taken multiple ways. I didn’t snoop more than that. I felt I was violating her trust by going as far as I did. But I asked about that, and she mentioned she had met several guys for lunch. She said what did I think she would do, she had to meet them and talk to them. I said it was inappropriate, and that I should have been there. She agreed that it was probably not a good thing to have done, and that she wouldn’t interview anyone else without me involved. No further interviews ever happened, though, not with me at any rate. She also explained that the reason she was fairly friendly with ‘S’ was that his girlfriend was a costume maker, and she was interested in having her make the costumes for our wedding. As it turned out, his girlfriend did indeed make our costumes, for the record.

Things went to high alert in May. On the 17th, when her ex had her son, and she and I were supposed to take a drive to the coast side, she had to do one pet visit first. She asked if we were going to the coast, and I said we could, but we didn’t have to. We could do whatever she liked. For some reason, this made her angry. She put on stockings and tore one of them because she was mad, and became even angrier. She found another pair and then put on a dress. She went into the bathroom and spent a lot of time getting dolled up, then went to do her pet visits. I felt this was simply too much. (She later said she was doing it so she would be ready when she got back, but this doesn’t ring true to me. Why would you do that PRIOR to handling dogs? ESPECIALLY the stockings?) She was gone for something like four hours, and her phone was going straight to voicemail.

Every alarm I had was going off. I began to think back and realized that every weekend her ex had her son lately, she had had pet sit visits for several hours on Saturday mornings. I reviewed all of the data above, and could come to no other conclusion: she was seeing someone else, perhaps more than one.

When she finally called me back, she offered little in the way of excuse for not answering, just ‘Oh, must have been out of range or something.’ I didn’t buy it, but there was no point arguing. That night, her friend ‘J’ called her, the same guy who first made me a little uncomfortable. She took the call out of my hearing, supposedly because I was watching TV. I overheard some of the conversation, and it seemed to be of a sexual nature, though not necessarily incriminating. She made some comment about how she didn’t worry about using protection for STD’s because she didn’t sleep with people she didn’t know and trust. I felt at the time that she had either gone to see John that day, or that he knew she was seeing someone and perhaps advised her to be cautious, but it was just gut feeling.

The next day was a repeat. She got dressed up, went to go get her son, and was out of contact for hours with the phone going to VM. Again, no real excuse.

Over the next couple of weeks, I watched and observed more of this behavior. I also noticed that several times, when I asked her son about his day, he clammed up, clamping his hands over his mouth and looking the other way. This seemed, to me, a childish attempt to ‘not tell something’. Months later, she mentioned that her son did this when he was not supposed to tell her ex something, and that her ex was too oblivious to notice.

I was, at this point, all but convinced. On May 29th, we were to fly to Florida on a redeye for a job interview for me. During the day before we left, she had a number of things she needed to do, including dropping her son off at his grandmothers to stay with her while we went on the trip. We called back and forth throughout the day. She dropped her son off around 3 or 4. By six, I was beginning to get antsy that we might miss the flight. I called her shortly after 6pm, and she answered. I heard what sounded like a moan from her, then the phone hung up. Repeated callbacks went straight to voicemail. She was unreachable for about a half hour. I felt in my gut that she had intended to silence the phone and had accidentally answered it, and what I had overheard was her with someone else. She finally called about a half hour later, and claimed she was returning a movie to Blockbuster, that she was in the Blockbuster parking lot and leaving. She took a long time to get home, another 20-30 minutes, which was too long. When we were getting ready to leave, I offered to move her car into the driveway, and she flipped out a little bit, saying, “No, no, it’s very stinky in there from dogs, it will bother your sinuses, etc.” It was a terribly obvious lie, and I knew she didn’t want me to see something in there. I suspected, correctly as it turns out, that the movie she had ‘returned’ was in the front seat.

In Florida, after the interview, I finally confronted her. I told her I felt like there was someone else in the picture, and I wanted to know if it was so. She was very angry. She wouldn’t answer my question of whether she was seeing someone else. She sat in furious silence for a long time, and then asked what I thought and how long I had thought this. I told her things hadn’t been right since February. She was very angry now, and asked me why I waited so long to speak up. I told her I didn’t want to believe it, I thought I was just jumping at ghosts from the past until lately, but that catching her in this lie was the last straw for me. She then began to tell me how I had it all wrong. I was upset and angry, too, now, and I took a mocking and disrespectful tone with her, pointing out all I had observed. As I was doing this, she literally leapt from her chair and attacked me, jumping on my back and beating me in the head. I shrugged her off, and now I was really mad. I told her in no uncertain terms to never attack me again, or I would leave her, because it is very hard for me not to respond in kind when someone is beating me, and I can’t be put in the position of hitting her.

She had a sort of breakdown then, crying and saying how she can’t believe she’s messed things up between us, swearing it was not how I think it was, and that the lie was just something stupid she did by reflex because she was embarrassed that she was running behind schedule. She said it was because she got used to lying to her ex husband because he was such a tyrant. She said she was actually at a store buying a nightgown she wanted to wear for me.

It was just barely plausible. I know full well that this is just what a cheating spouse does, tries to spin. Every situation violates Occams Razor. Every parse of words requires one to use the third definition in the dictionary instead of the first. They gaslight. They raise doubt.

I knew, but I had no proof, and I needed the truth to make a decision. It was just barely possible that she was telling the truth. Even if it was what I thought, I was willing to consider alternatives to ending things. I’m not a super jealous person, physically. I’ve dabbled in ‘alternate lifestyles’ in past relationships, perhaps to my detriment, but at least I know enough about myself to know that physical fidelity means much less to me than spiritual fidelity. It’s not the physical part that I can’t bear; it’s the dishonesty, the disrespect, the insurmountable inequity that deception requires.

I need honesty and equity. Everything else is negotiable.

What followed was a lot of fear and grief for both of us. I was on hyper alert, jumping at every shadow.

We were in the process of buying a new home and having a wedding when this came to a head. We moved in early June. We argued a lot about my suspicions. But we also both agreed that we do want to be together, and we do want to go through with our wedding and have a family and a home and a future. She wanted to take her IUD out and get pregnant. I agreed. In retrospect, maybe it was a bad idea, in that we have so many problems, but I think we also both felt it would give us something to hold onto to weather the storm, a reason not to just give up. She had it removed mid the second week of June.

It was a week later that I found the bruises. I don’t want to get super graphic here, but there were three parallel bruises about finger position on each of her inner thighs, and matching round circles on the outer, like where a thumb would press in. It looked pretty consistent with someone handling her roughly from behind. She denied it, of course, blamed it on the move. Again, we had a huge fight. This seems damning to me. And the timing seems right on, a final fling with someone, and he marks her on purpose.

Again, I am talked down. Good thing, probably. She’s already pregnant, but we don’t know it.

There’s more, too much to write, too much clouded by my own suspicion at this point, and my confusion and self doubt and paranoia combine to make it very difficult to tell truth from lies. I know something happened, but I don’t know what, or the extent, but it seems very bad. But these are things I now know, that I discovered since, etc.

She eventually came to me of her own accord and tells me the passwords to her mail. I thought it was a gesture of openness, but when I looked, I saw she had deleted everything between late February and early June, and purged it from the trash. It’s all gone, all evidence destroyed.

I cleaned her car in August and found she purchased underwear Feb 12, shirts and panties. One pair had clearly been worn at least briefly, and smelled of powder. The others were still on the card they came on. There were also some t-shirts, same deal, one was used, the rest not. I purchased checkmate and found semen on the shirt. At first she claimed it was impossible. More recently, she claimed it must be mine. I know I should have done a DNA test, but I haven’t.

There is a lot of porn use, things that made me feel threatened. I am not a prude. I don’t have a problem with porn. But it seemed to be happening often, and she didn’t want to share the use of it with me. That makes it a problem, in my book.

In November, I caught her lying to me about something stupid, a money thing, nothing big, but a deliberate lie, and compounded when I asked again about it. I told her the next lie I caught her in was the end of things. I just couldn’t take it anymore.

By now, I’d guess people are saying I am a moron, but it’s not as if there aren’t reasons to work it out. I do believe that there is something worth preserving, and with the baby due next month, there is all the more reason to find a way.

But I am losing my grip. I can’t deny the evidence I have, but she won’t budge. She admits to being abusive, and is says she is committed to being a more trustworthy person. In fairness to her, things HAVE changed, though we are both still working to make things better.

But I am stuck. I can’t get past what seems to me the certainty that she stepped out with someone else briefly, and is still lying about it. She says she has no reason to lie. She says she wishes it was as simple as that, she wishes she could confess that there had been someone else, because she thinks it would be easier, but that there was no one else to confess to. She says she had an affair with herself, that she did all the damage an affair would do, but that THERE WAS NO ONE ELSE INVOLVED.

This is simply unbelievable to me. There are too many ‘someone else’ issues, it feels like. Why the closing windows when I walked in? Why the deleting emails? There are so many points of data to which she can’t really offer an answer that rings true to me. She just maintains that it wasn’t like how I think.

I want to fix this and ride it out, and I believe she is sincere here, too. But I can’t do that without feeling my feet are finally on the ground. I have to get the bullet out before the wound can heal. She swears there is no bullet.

I don’t know how to get past this. For the sake of my marriage, my family, my sanity, I need to do so.

But right now, I am just filled with darkness.

He thinks I had an affair... the short answer is that I did not. The long answer is to follow:

A history...

I never believed in love. Not once in my life did I expect to find the man of my dreams, fall in love and proceed to happily ever after end of things. My observation was that what people tended to label as 'love' was nothing more than a biological trick, an evolved reaction to the drive to breed. I dismissed it as superfluous to a true human's experience.

I believed in companion-ability, friendship, respect and commitment. I never believed in love.

When I married, at eighteen, I married a man thirty years my senior. He had assets that I admired. He had parents that I had grown to care for deeply. He needed someone to take care of him, from my perspective, and I could gift him something no one else had ever offered to him; a family to call his own.

I did not love him.

I bent over backwards to meet his needs. I learned how to care for his home and I learned how to cook. Before I moved in with him my life was a blur of french fries and fish sticks and now I do not hesitate to take on complex recipes. I have learned the science and the art of cooking... it is the only magic in which I believe. When I was displeased in any way he simply pointed out to me that he had changed more than enough already to accommodate my presence, it was for me to work out the rest.

I compiled a report, at his request, to support my desire to have a child. I proved that we could afford it and I researched what to expect during the first few years of life. Later I found out that he had only said that we could try and have a child because he was sure that he was unable. Knowing that before hand would have changed much.

I went through the pregnancy alone-- when my son was beginning to move he shrugged and said he had no interest in feeling the movement. He had, after all, felt such things before out of necessity with the horses. He told me time and again when I tried to prepare him for how the new infant would be that it was 'my thing' and that he really was not interested.

I did not believe in love until my son. My life changed in many ways at his coming. I loved him so dearly that it could cause me physical pain. What a wondrous little thing he was...

The only diaper my husband changed was one the nurses at the hospital made him change while I was in the restroom. When my son was a little over a year old he came toddling across the bed and flung his arms around me, 'Love you Mommy!', and then he wandered off to other things. My husband's response? 'You know that child only shows you affection to get to me.' Hmmm yes I have birthed an evil genius!

He wrote me notes about how the child had to recognize that I was his first. He expressed love and caring for the child in about the same way one might express affection for a family pet.

Our relationship deteriorated yet further when my former husband's sexual proclivities took center stage. At eighteen I had no idea the impact his interests would have on me, I was still growing into the person I am today and I had no experience to pull from nor any one to ask advice.

Let me say that I have nothing against a little something extra from time to time. However, that something extra, that bit of spice should be as the chocolate shavings atop a cheesecake-- not the entire cake, trimmings and all. At first his 'fetish' was interesting, I was young and flexible of mind and willing to give it a go. It became overwhelming but I pressed on, telling myself I had no right to alter the contract now, I had said it was okay and so it had to be okay. I tried to encourage 'normal' sexual activities with little success--- the fetish had to be there in some form or things just didn't work. In the long run, I see now, that such activities undermined his masculinity in my mind. It was one of many things that broke any respect I had for him. I am a female and I desire my sexual, intellectual and spiritual opposite; a male. We are not complete without each other, whether you believe in evolution, creation or something in between we are designed this way. Were we not, the species would have died out a long time ago.

Because of his various attitudes and his inflexibility, displayed on many an occasion I came to see him as weak and in need of sheltering. I behaved much the same way a rebellious teenager might. He would not allow me to play computer games, which have been a part of my life since games came in all text (xyzzy). My father, my youngest sister and I played Doom until we were running levels in our sleep. Games have always been my preferred pass time, T.V. does not usually appeal to me. So... instead of fighting for what was necessary intellectual stimulation that he would not provide I skimmed off the top of my negligible grocery budget in order to buy games to keep hidden on my computer. He checked my mileage and gas usage to make sure I was only driving to the store and back on the one day I was allowed the car so, I drove circles around town every week, racking up miles so that should I actually wish to visit my parents five miles away I could without the usual lecture.

Whenever I wanted to visit my grandparents a good 30 miles away he would put up a stink and play the martyr until the struggle was just not worth it in my mind. However, when it seemed to him that I was no longer interested enough in his thing he found it easy to pay a prostitute to do it for him and drive just as far for that as I wanted to visit my family.

He had my permission. Before anyone gets carried away... I gave him permission because this fetish was beginning to take a toll on me. I am not good at feigning interest in sexual matters. I have a healthy desire and he was managing to squelch it pretty well. I gave him permission because I thought that I was inadequate and had no right to deny him this. I was the one who was lacking because I could not give him what he wanted. I was a bad wife to be unable to satisfy my husband and so I said yes. I did not know how to say no at the time, I did not know how to explain that just in asking, that it was that important for him to ask for this killed any affection or hope I had. I was 22 or so at the time and not the person I am today.

It still galls me that he invited me along, wanted me to perhaps participate. Me, doing something against the law like this, because prostitution is against the law in my state. Me with a child, with something more precious than my life to lose. Me, who had done no illicit drugs in all her life and no interest in trying. Me, who did not even get drunk, not once until just before we decided to get me pregnant, and even then, at the time it was more for experimental purposes than anything. How little he knew me that he did not know how offensive the very thought was. How little he had paid attention to what I believed in that he thought this would just be okay.

My current husband excuses my retaliatory gesture by saying that my ex-husband had already opened the marriage by going outside of it. I don't feel that way. It was wrong to stoop to a similar level. Why? Because I like to be able to stand clean and righteous when I judge someone. I want to be able to point out why they are vermin before me but I can only do that if I remain unblemished. I still judge him, but I cannot do so with the fervor I would like, I am not justified.

I messed around a couple of times with this one guy (who is now dead... yeah it's a bit weird). The chase was fun, flirting and talking but when it came down to it, it was not what I wanted. I wanted to be with my husband, I wanted to want to be with him and for him to accept me.

This is getting very long so I'll cut to the chase, I had an emotional affair towards the end of the eight year marriage. I was disconnected from my husband and he just could not grasp the situation. He thought his behavior exemplary, he thought I had no cause for any of my thoughts or feelings and was unwilling to do anything differently. I took my son, my dog and the sad little broken down car I had since I was fifteen with me when I left. I refused spousal support or any measurable amount of his sizable assets. I came with nothing and I wanted to leave with nothing but those few things I felt I had a right to.

This is just background, however. It likely is pertinent to my current situation.

I had no work experience and had quit college when I married so I had no degree either. I broke into private security and pursued a career in criminal justice until I realized I could not take a job that would have be being potentially shot at. My child deserved to have me there with him more than I deserved my ideal career.

I met my current husband through craigslist. Let me see if i can find the text of my ad...




"Have a read and if you are interested, shoot me a line...



...preferably more than just a line.

It should be easy for me to write about myself, there is much to be said and I will not deny being a little egocentric. As stated in the title I am 27. I am a female, just to make certain that is well understood and recently separated from my husband of 8 years. I am not going to lie about my appearance, I have comely features, blonde hair and blue eyes I stand at 5'4 and 3/4'' tall and am working really f***ing hard to lose the weight I have gained.

Oh and I swear... I believe that one should be capable of expressing themselves adequately without the assistance of expletives and assorted colorful language. However in fully using one's vocabulary such words inevitably find their place. They make excellent devices for denoting fervency, conviction or just strong emotion in general and I advocate their use. And besides, if one loses their temper would it not be considered better to let loose a curse and be done with it than to reach out and strike someone?

Now, just with reading that bit above can you imagine that I have trouble finding anyone I wish to connect with? I am a difficult person. Not always, but often enough. I can be inspired to inordinate amounts of sweetness and despite having an aggressive nature I can be incredibly submissive under the right circumstances.

I am a walking contradiction perhaps but an interesting person to know. Give me the inspiration to recover my figure because while I am cute as a fat girl I am downright pretty when in shape. We appreciate best those who inspire us to be better people. Please no chubby chasers- - what is wrong with you people? Not discriminating against a person because they are overweight is one thing but to go after people who in some cases no longer even look human? I doubt it is healthy.

I am looking for someone to interest me as all I get approached by are people who make my stomach turn and wish there was mandatory sterilization for those who demonstrate persistent and willful stupidity. Just because I am coming from a bad marriage and I have a good few extra pounds to shed does not mean I am an easy f*** or that my standards are lower than the neighborhood's street corner slut."


So, uh, yeah... that was my ad. I think it was enough to frighten off most weirdos and of the few serious responders I met my current SO.

He's different and This is the Truth, Jake Chambers. He made it easy to see that I had been involved, emotionally (never physically), with a poisonous person. I felt comfortable with him. He is the only person I've ever been with who I have felt younger than. I am not his superior and I feel that I struggle to be his equal. That is not a bad thing.

My son and I finally moved in with him at the beginning of last year. I gave up a 7-5 thousand dollar a month client list when I moved down there. And because of the housing market and morons I had no firm place to start up a new client list. The place we were living was supposed to be temporary and so I lost my income. In early January I injured myself and was couch ridden for a couple of weeks and at diminished capacity for a good month. (P.S. I am a dog walker/ Pet Sitter--- no walkie no workie)

I had a long time to sit alone in the house and be miserable. My mind started chewing on its own outer edges and my thoughts spiraled. Did I share this with my new companion and life partner? No, I fell into bad habits. It's my problem, I would tell myself, my problem and you are a pathetic worthless weakling if you can't get through this on your own. Don't burden him, he's already taken on enough. You need to shut up, suck it up and straighten up. And I thought I had it to myself and under control.

I was horribly wrong. I am not used to someone who pays attention. I am not used to someone who is strong and capable. I could have and should have relied upon him but I didn't, I curled up into myself. I was abusive and neglectful of all those around me, him, my son, my dog, the cat--- eh well I am abusive to the cat on the best of days so I shouldn't include her. I behaved shamefully towards the people about whom I cared the most because I thought I had it under control.

I had a bit of a wake up call in--- I think it was March, it was definitely close to March but not before. We went out east to meet his family for the first time (us not him). We had a bit of a tiff in a shop and later upon returning I sent him an email to get it off my chest that I thought he had behaved poorly. Well, he set me pretty straight. I can admit a mistake when its laid out before me. I _have_ to admit a mistake or else there would be no hope of improving myself and living to my potential. And I thought I did admit it and try to be better. It was not enough, as I told him, it was like a tap on the shoulder when I needed and slap to the face.

He'd be able to tell you the time table of things far better than I could. During this whole time of neglect that I put them through I started taking liberties with time. I had been bound to a computer for years with this emotional affair and I was suddenly free of that. I had been under the rule of a secondary parental figure with my ex husband for years before that and despite what else was happening I felt suddenly free. I broke old habits of schedule and I let loose. I ran behind schedule and I shrugged it off when I was just gone doing a thirty minute job for two hours. I was binging too...no purging, now that I was no longer with my first husband I did not indulge in such activities. Binging and wandering and killing, no slaughtering time and oh so wrapped up in myself. It's been difficult to admit to myself, much less anyone else, just how badly I was behaving. I was behaving like a child from a tight laced religious family suddenly loose on the college campus. And I didn't have it in my mind that any of it could cause the troubles it has.

I found out during a trip for a job interview out of state that he had taken a tally of my behavior and decided I was having an affair.

I was stunned. I was shocked. I was enraged.

I had never been accused of something I had not done before. Been accused plenty but of things I had done. Either ignorance or naivety lead me to believe it just was not possible for me to be accused of something I didn't do. I felt stupid, like he had taken everything I had done, every kind word, everything I had confided in him and spit on it, thinking it was lies and trash. Whatever doors to me that had remained open slammed shut right then and there. He had never believed a word that had come from me else how could he believe I would do that?

A slightly wiser more learned me understands that I am no more immune to an affair than anyone else. In my right mind, thinking logically and behaving rationally the idea makes me sick at heart and stomach. But I understand that at the core of it, when I am irrational and uncareful, arrogant and dismissive that I am capable of cheating, anyone is.

I attacked him. Much to my shame my attacks were not just verbal. To his credit he did not strike me in return physically.

I was so upset. If one can be mortally wounded and not have a scratch upon their person, I felt I was. I tried to explain myself and in the time since then I find I have done so very poorly. I keep trying to tell him what was going on in my mind when I did these things that raised his suspicions. It makes sense to me but not to him. He doesn't see how it could be anything but an affair.

I have not helped this. Some time after we returned from that fateful trip I deleted email. This it turns out was the worst thing I could ever have done. I deleted proof that anyone I had contact with who could be under suspicion was innocent. I deleted proof that I had not been in contact with an affair partner. I wish I could say that I can't believe I was so stupid, but unfortunately I can.

I deleted emails from before this time he thought I had an affair but that doesn't matter to him.

I'll make a short list of what I did:

I lied about my whereabouts.
I was neglectful and hurtful being wrapped up in my own thoughts.
I was careless with time.
I took and returned calls from someone my husband believes had at least a one sided emotional affair with me.
I did not talk to him.
I did not trust him as I should have.
I did not treat him as a partner.
I had the equivalent of an emotional affair by myself, with myself.

What I did not do:

Have an affair emotional or physical with another person.


I have shot to shreds any credibility I had. I am trying, every day to earn that back. I am addressing the things that make me behave poorly.

What I have identified as dangerous area for me:

I have a tendency not to trust others.
I convince myself I can handle things on my own.
I convince myself I am a burden if I talk about how I feel.
I do not take into consideration that I am not a single person, I am a member of a family.
I do not take into consideration how everything I do and don't do affects _everyone_.
I tell 'little lies' to cover embarrassing behavior.
I avoid confrontation with little lies.

None of these things require excusing, I don't need to justify them. What I need to do, what I have been doing is changing my behavior. Knowing the source of the problem does help to diagnose and yet its not nearly so important as implementing a cure.

With things as they are I can't be the comfort I want to be to my husband. I can't be his wife as things stand. He can't believe me because he can't trust me. He insists that all I need to do is tell him the truth and then we can move forward. What needs to happen is that he needs to believe me when I say that I am telling the truth. I need to establish myself as someone who would tell him if there had indeed been another person. I need to be able to have him believe my motives, that the things I did might not seem sensible might not, at points, even seem rational but they are my motives.

He says that in order to believe me he has to accept that he's crazy. I don't think that is the case. His past does influence his vision but he's not crazy. Things were _wrong_. I was having a lot of problems. I felt I was losing myself and I felt I was wronging my son by moving on and starting another family that he would always be just a little bit on the outskirts of. There was a lot wrong... but there was never anyone but just me involved with it. I never betrayed him with anyone but myself.

I have no idea what to do. I have been reading this site and the forums here since November or September and its helped me understand a lot but I don't know what to do.

What do you do when you tell the truth and it doesn't matter? The truth doesn't set you free. You speak the truth and it flies away, smirking and mocking you that you thought it actually owed you anything for its release.

I wrote this years ago and yet... it fits more often than not these days:




Why this insistence to hang on?
When reason for wishing has gone,
As wings of butterfly once touched,
The world may as well be crushed.
Does continuing make us strong?
If so why does it feel so wrong

What once was beautiful seems now dry,
Such a loss! and yet come no tears to cry,
In desolation there is no fear,
Just wonderment we still are here,
No heed given white flag un furled,
How cruelly ever turns the world.

One day call of life no longer heed
To close one's ears, what peace indeed!
'Til then of course the world spins 'round,
No pity shown hearts trodden down
Hope dries up, peels and fades
Naught left but dust... and that blows away

Can y'all cut that back to about 3 paragraphs? That is way too long and way TMI! Most people have less than 8 hrs a day on the internet.

You have to admit that if you weren't having an affair that you were acting in almost the classic way that wayward wives do. There were/are so many red flags based on your actions that it's hard for anyone not to assume you were cheating. Even you son not willing to answer what you were doing was a red flag. To someone who has gone thru the pain of an affair like your husband to be, your behavior just sent off painful bells in his head. And everytime he would ask about it, your answers would set off even more red flags.

Based on how you acted, during this time to include erasing all the emails....nothing short of a lie-detector test will clear you of wrong-doing. I'm sorry to say that!! I suggest you find someone in your area that gives these tests...pay the 300-500$ and clear this matter up or your relationship is doomed!!

If you are willing to take the test that will be a good sign..if not then he will then know that you are hiding something. Take the test!!!!!!!!!!!

Melody: I think it would be hard to compress overmuch, in that the details are the heart of the problem. I understood from the outset that it would be too much for some.

Flynn: In fairness, she has volunteered to take a lie detector, of her own accord. I was opposed to it because I felt it was too degrading for her to do so, and because I can't say as I really trust the process. If she fails, won't she say it was because she was nervous? If she passes, won't I wonder if it was simple cold-bloodedness? It really disturbs me to have to go to such measures, and I don't know how reliable they are.

Dude, I've been willing to take the test. Believe me I have wanted very badly to take a lie detector test.

It has not been for me that we have not gone that route. And... I have to admit, I think he could dismiss results from that all too easily.

I have never said that what I have done was not bad, and that it has done has had the same impact as if I actually had an affair. No, I take that back, its worse because there is no big bad huge thing to admit to.

grendel, folks don't need this level of detail, especially historical details that have nothing to do with the current situation, to get the picture. You would probably get more responses if you scaled it way, way back and condensed your points. Most folks just don't have time to read such overly long posts. I am not trying to be discouraging, but trying to help you get more help.

Melody: I appreciate that, I really do. I guess part of my problem, though, is that I myself am overwhelmed by it all. I can't get a handle on it. I can try tomorrow to pare it down a bit, but right now, I am just emotionally wrung out from putting it down as it is. It's very difficult for me to focus on right now.

God! this one makes LaLa and W2S's novel look like a one liner!

Now that's the truth! When W2S first posted I was expecting handouts and powerpoints!

BB & MFIL,

That's about enough out of you two! Don't make me bump my thread everyday for the next month! I've got a word document and I'm not afraid to use it!

Want2Stay

Glad I no longer hold the record for longest first posts in MB history!

(Un)fortunately it's a Word 2007 doc and nobody can figure out how to open it...

It seems the other thread... the sesame street segment version is the one that will actually get the attention. However, that leaves this one open for me to ramble. Quite likely most of what I type here won't seem important to other people but it is important to me.

I cannot really believe all the quibbling over definitions of marriage. One person contridicts themselves saying in one phrase that marriage is not a piece of paper and then that it has to be a piece of paper.

What is marriage? It is two people who have sworn to one life before their god, their family and their peers. It is not the legal document that is filed with the government, that is the registration of a marriage, not a marriage.

I have read the renter/buyer section here. As with all things to do with human behavior and psychology it is general. Case studies reveal many variations, many shades to the human condition which cannot be succinctly defined and used as a basis for general diagnosis. This is also why case studies while interesting do not have a real bearing on science in the same way that studies do.

Marriage is the commitment, not the document. Marriage existed before governments. Marriage has been carried out and lived by those who were denied the legal definition of married. Their relationships, their commitments are not any less than those who believe in the legal system before all else.

Grendel will likely be the only one to get this... I am amazed at you people who would call yourself civilized and enlightened who are superstitious enough to believe that words drawn on special paper and given a special stamp make a thing more true or real. Truth lies in the mind and the heart, not in the law. Law is about order not truth and not justice.

Anyway, enough venting before I go to see the tax girl.

Was your first marriage declared before God?

Yup, swore before god and family. And broken by him when he decided his fetish was more important than his family. Not that I didn't contribute to all our problems-- mostly by not communicating firmly about how his choices on this issue affected me.

Zakal, setting aside the marital issue(Whew!!)

What do you mean you were having an emotional affair with yourself?

Also since your job contributed with you having to leave at irregular hours...leading to part of his suspicion, are you going to quit you job? I really don't see how you can stay together, short of the lie detector test, with still having to go meet clients or stay at there houses etc during this time!!

Have you considered Individual Counseling (IC) to work on yourself?? Is sounds like you need it...no offense!!

Its unknown whether of not your husband will continue with the marriage, but if he does nothing short of complete openness and absolute knowledge/approval of your comings and goings. Passwords to emails/cellphones heck even a GPS on your vehicle. Your girlfriend is gone!!!! That conversation you had with her was a major issue...so she is gone no matter what!!

Paternity test of the child!!!

Not sure what the deal was where you son put his hand over his mouth and didn't answer your husbands question about what you were doing???? Red Flag!!!

Alright I am tired so there are a couple of issues and suggestions!!

Flynn

Um... putting my hand over the child's mouth? An easy explanation there is that didn't happen and that's not what he said. My son clammed up of his own accord.

The rest; I did quit my job, I left all my clients and until right now at 7 months pregnant I have not pursued it. I don't want to be in that business anymore, not like that. I have modified it so I am not going out and I am not having consultations without my husband at home. Instead of dog walks and petsitting people will now bring their dogs to me for boarding and daycare.

I don't even want to be doing this. I want to be done with this business and find something else. However, Grendel has been laid off for a month now and we've not enough income.

I think the situation will be different because he is here and I will not be in those suspicion inducing situations again. I won't be, I can't be. I can't even be gone from the house for more than a couple of hours without feeling as though I have come to the end of my lead right now. That's not a particularly rational thing, he's never said anything about me doing necessary things like the taxes or groceries or my son's soccer practice but honestly, I wish I didn't even have to leave the house without him right now.

Polygraph will be done. Testing will be done, of any kind available. It has to be, and I wish it had been done when the opportunity first arose.

And uh... I just realized you mentioned a girlfriend? What girlfriend? Are we talking about my Emotional Affair partner? Or something else? Because I haven't had contact with her since begining of last year because she contacted me... and then Grendel and I had a good laugh at her expense.

Zakal --

You get a bit wordy. Can you CONCISELY explain the bruises?
The semen? The moaning phone hang up? Wearing stockings to work with dogs?

Why did you delete your email history?

I work with dogs. I was working with Moomba and Kai at the time, two aussies. And, I bruise quite easily, its taken two weeks for the bruises from getting blood drawn to fade.

Moaning phone hang up:

I was cut off inside of Macy's while shopping. I opened the phone pressed the green answer button... the silence button is the # key, quite a ways away from the answer key. I couldn't get a signal until I was outside the store again.

Stockings to walk a single dog:

Taffy, corgi, she does not jump. Not once in the time I ever knew Taffy did she jump up on me. It was taking a chance too, even though she doesn't jump, I'm not good with stockings, I think I go through about three pair for each time i try and wear them. One walk, old dog, owned by old lady.

Semen:

Either its his that I wiped off the morning I used the t-shirt, or its not semen. That's one reason it needs to get tested. My dad pointed me to some information on semen testers. They are 100% accurate at testing for the compounds they test for, which are apparently enzymes that are commonly found in semen... and saliva, and female discharges in varying amounts. I wore those items to get a mineral body wrap and then they spent a good 6 months in the back of a car that I transported dogs in, moldering in a plastic bag.