After reading Petal's thread on anger issues, I was inspired to dig a little bit into my own situation and would love some feedback.

I think I hold a lot of anger and resentment toward my parents and my siblings. I get extremely tense and frustrated when I'm around them...something that never happens with anyone else. Everything is suddenly a trigger for me...I turn into a different person.

Next month, I'm attending a family event and staying in town for a week next...lots and lots of time with my immediate family (I usually only see them once or twice a year). On top of that, the reason for the event brings up political issues that I hold strong feelings about.

I'd really love to understand this anger that only seems to come out around my family. The main thing that I feel is a need to defend myself and prevent myself from being walked all over or taken advantage of. I was a third child and my mother did little to discipline us. It was every man for himself. I'm like a wounded puppy with hair on end, teeth gleaming, and claws protruded. I become selfish and extremely guarded emotionally. I know they all get the feeling that they can do no right around me.

Anyone who feels like playing psychologist, you've got a welcome invitation to this tea party.
Any info you need from me, just ask. I really appreciate your thoughts and will do my best to not be defensive.

Thanks,
Smile

Well, Smile, first things first.

Have you identified every reason you are angry with your family? Most likely not, but you did bring up one thing: lack of discipline.

Since you've identified this one, work on realizing that everyone is in the same boat. Parenting is difficult work, and sometimes there are reasons our parents don't "parent" adequately. Perhaps your mother had anger issues.

So, anyway, once you realize we're all in similar difficulties, it's easier to forgive (which is mostly for you, not the offender).

Move on to the next thing, until you've covered every irritating little thing.

Well, once you've started the identify-forgive process, the next step is boundaries. At this point, I suggest you read the book "Boundaries" by Drs. Cloud and Townsend (Christian perspective).

Also, practice expressing your anger and hurts to the least emotionally invested people. Once you master that, you can move on to the most difficult.

It's important to express hurts and anger, because then, we have taken responsibility for our feelings AND given the other person an opportunity reflect on him or herself.

Did I just say that? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Petals

Thanks. I think I need to sign up for Petal's Anger Mgmt. 101. Grrrr.
I actually talked to a therapist about this yesterday and he didn't do much more than validate my feelings.

Actually, he gave me a great analogy a couple of weeks ago. I basically put up this incredible wall to protect myself. At times, though, I know I need to be open to feedback and willing to really listen. At those times, I take down the wall and become incredibly vulnerable and usually end up taking things too personally. He compared it to window blinds. He first opened the blinds all the way and the sunlight came beaming through. He closed them next and the room became dark. Those symbolized the way I open myself up and close myself off from people. Then he twisted the knob and let a little light come through the partially open blinds. He wants me to learn to do that...to filter what affects me. It's a great visual for me and I haven't really had a good opportunity to think about it in the context of my anger issues.

Smile

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks. I think I need to sign up for Petal's Anger Mgmt. 101. Grrrr.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Tehehe. At ZuzusPetals U, tuition is 150 per credit hour, paid directly to ZuzusPetals. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He wants me to learn to do that...to filter what affects me. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Right. These are boundaries. You have walls, but fences are much easier to handle in relationships. You can move them, and you can still see out. Yet, they send a clear message about what is yours to handle. When you open the gate, communications come in. You can internalize or leave those things at the gate.

Take responsibility for what is yours to handle and let others be responsible for what is theirs.

Petals

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Next month, I'm attending a family event and staying in town for a week next...lots and lots of time with my immediate family (I usually only see them once or twice a year). On top of that, the reason for the event brings up political issues that I hold strong feelings about. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Will you be staying with family, or at a hotel? I would suggest a hotel, so you can remove yourself from any situation where you are uncomfortable.

I'm staying with my sister. I'm going to be there for 8 days and it's not at all realistic to pay for a motel. I do have several options if things get tense and I need to "run away". One of those options is not family.
That's probably a big part of my anger problem. Not only do I always stay with family, but I have no transportation. I can only escape as far as my little legs will carry me. There's a huge, beautiful park behind my sister's house. If I get frustrated, I'll grab a book and go find a quiet spot. I really want to get to the bottom of what causes me to transform into such a nut case when I'm around them, though. I don't want to run away...I want to figure this out.

Smile

I wouldn't consider it running away. If you ask someone not to treat you a certain way, and they do, your main course of action is to remove yourself from their presence.

What about renting a car for your visit? Eight days is a long time to feel trapped. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Are you staying with the sister that hit you? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Personally, I would recommend focusing on overcoming the anger rather than the history that has led up to it. I suspect you will discover some things about yourself and you past. But the bottom line is that you want to be able to enjoy their company without becoming defensive and tense. Right?

Anger is a reaction to fear. Something scares you and your animal instinct is to bcome defensive and either fight or run. Anger is choosing to fight. Withdrawl is choosing to run. the choice generally isn't a concious one - especially if it had been learned over your childhood. It is automatic. You don;t have direct control over it.

Anger is characterized by a physical reaction. Your body preapres for the fight. Muscles tense, adrenalyin flows and some of your bodily functions shut down. The brain is flooded with chemicals designed to reduce paina nd improve reactions... but they also reduce our ability to reason. These physical reations occur before the "fight" actually begins. According to Gary Zukav, if you can get a handle on the physical aspect, you can keep yourself from becomming angry.

The trick is to identify what your physical reactions are. Monitor yourself for a while and sse if you can identify them. In some cases it may be the tightening of the stomach muscles, tension in the neck, tension in ths face, anxiety attacks such as uncontrollable tapping, etc. We often have different physical reations to different triggers. Knowing your reaction is the first step to controlling it.

Next, you can make a conscious choice to not allow that physical reaction to occur. If your physical reaction is tention in the neck, then by relaxing the neck muscles you halt the building of the tension. Relaxation stops the other physical reractions (eg, flooding of the brian). You wil be able to regain control. At first, this process will be difficult. But when you practice it fro a while, it will become autmatic and you will be less vulnerable - more in control.

Each time you practice this you know that something has triggered anger. The second step is to start challenging the ghosts which trigger it. As stated before, anger is a reaction to fear. Something has scared you. So after you detect the tension and release it, ask what it is you are afraid of? What do you imagine you might lose?

The third step is to keep an anger diary. If you write down what you felt afraid of each time you get angry... and then review the diary once a week for patterns, you will discover the ghosts which are haunting you and keeping you vulnerable to the anger. We all have monsters under our bed... events form the past that hurt us so bad that we become frightened when we percieve any threat of those events happening again.

Sometimes it isn't an event that triggers anger, but a principle. Our parents may have taught us to never do this or that OR ELSE _____. The thought of ____ scares us so much that we become frightened whenever someone shows disrespect for that principle.

Another common source of fear is extrapolation. Commuication is never 100%. There are parts to every communication that are left out. Our brains extrapolate the information provided using past experience and arrive at some "reasoning" as to what the communiation was about. For example, if my W asks me to take the garbage out I 'reason" as to which garbage and what time frame she is expecting it to be done. When you are having conversation with your family you may be extrapolating what they say and do based on past experience with them. When you feel tense ask what assumptions and exctrapolations you are making. This may lead you to some of the trigers.

Of course, underlying all of this is likely something or some things that you have never forgiven your family for. Forgiveness is not about other people, it is about ourselves. When we fail to forgive someone it is ALWAYS because we can't foprgive ourselves. For example, if someone has insulted you by pointing out one of your inhgerent weaknesses and making fun of it you will not be able to forgive that person until you can forgive yourself for having the weakness in the first place. in my experience, most of our ghosts are about our own inability to accept ourselves for being human. We are not reacting to the judgement that the OP is making, but to the judgement we are making about ourself. ifyou look for these judgements and make a conscious effort to forgive yourself, you will be less vulnerable to becoming scared and angry in the future.

This might not be applicable but I have been amazed at how differently my youngest sister and I view our childhoods. She feels shortchanged because our mother worked from the time she was 6 or 7 years old. I on the other hand am resentful because I was saddled with responsibility for younger siblings from the age of 6.

Maybe life wasn't such a bowl of cherries for those two who came before you. I was mean to my younger siblings - they still talk about how I threw all their stuff out in the snow when they didn't pick it up. Perhaps that was some glorious power trip of mine, or maybe it was a poor 12 year old who knew she was going to take heat if things were not in order.

AFS...no, I'm staying with my other sister. She's in no way violent. She's changed a lot since she found her religion. While I have a difficult time connecting with her because of these changes, I know that I have nothing to fear. I just get frustrated with her because she points out my childhood flaws and pokes fun at me for who I used to be. It's annoying, but definitely tolerable.
I think the most annoying thing for me is that my family views me as little Smile. I'm still a kid and always will be. I've lived far away from everyone for so long, that they have no clue who I am now. None of them know anything about me and I've changed a lot. No one shows interest in who I am. There's a rift. When they ask what's new and I tell them, their eyes glaze over...I live worlds apart. I think differently. *sigh*

HH...that was a wonderful post. I need to read it a few more times and really think about that. I like this approach much more than figuring out the psychobabble aspects of my youth, although there is of course something to be said for all of that. I want to work with real, tangible feelings and changes. I've changed so much and I want to work from today's perspective. I guess I'm fortunate that I don't have to deal with these bad feelings frequently enough to get any real practice at determining what's happening. Visits 1-2 times a year don't do much for really understanding what I'm feeling. But, I am going to write down my feelings each day...I really need to understand what is happening with me.
Thanks so much for taking the time to share your thoughts with me.

Smile

Quote: I think the most annoying thing for me is that my family views me as little Smile.

Oh dear here you did have me laughing out loud. We were a big family and those of us older ones refered to the younger as "the little kids". Once one of them launched into it tirade and how she had a business, she had children, likely soon would have grandchildren and she was not one of the "#^%%# goldang ^%$##^^# little kids".

She was right. We agreed and ordered another pitcher of beer.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I just get frustrated with her because she points out my childhood flaws and pokes fun at me for who I used to be. It's annoying, but definitely tolerable.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why is it tolerable? Because you think you shouldn't get so upset about it? But you do, don't you, and then you retreat?

You haven't resolved anything by doing that (if it's been done each time you have a nerve-wracking encounter), and you won't resolve anything by repressing your anger this way. It still hurts you.

Rather, perhaps when you get in touch with your sister next, you might say, "Sis, I love you and I've noticed a LOT of changes in you since you've become a (insert name of religion follower). I'm really proud of you. However, when you talk about my flaws in childhood, I get defensive and feel hurt that you still think of me that way. Would you please refrain from bringing those things up for now?"

You are taking responsibility for your sensitivity here, but giving her the responsibility to decide whether or not to honor your request. If she does not honor the request, you have the option of telling her how you plan to enforce that boundary.

Or, when you make your request, then tell her your plan for "leaving" or "retreating to a book," etc. for when she crosses that boundary.

Petals

<small>[ October 23, 2003, 08:57 AM: Message edited by: Zuzus_Petals ]</small>

Anger is something we all have. And it is triggered by different things. It is an emotion that is like a warning.

Do you want to hear a funny thing? One of my dogs is a Siberian Husky, (I have three now), but this Husky will not tolerate anyone yelling at him or anyone else! He hates yelling. And when you yell at him, he yells back at you. Sibe's talk, with rolling groaning, it is just hysterical. But anyway, they are also very into finding who is Alpha in the household, usually they wish for it to be themselves!

Especially was disconcerting was the effect my husband and him created when husband wanted husky to do something, or to "stop" doing something. The dog just yelled back, no matter what!

But, I found that this worked. When husky got fresh and I wanted him to stop, I would "change the subject", and using diversion, I could get the husky to behave! Ie, I would start talking and use words he knew like, do you want a cookie?, do you want to go out?, or just talk b.s. and the dog loved the positive attention.

This dog is the gentlest dog I ever had. 100% love. There is no aggression in him. He has no reason to be angry. That doesn't mean he runs the place. He is just content and loves love. Which he gets from everyone in this house.

And if I scold a child, or even if there are warm hugs, He jumps in between. And pushes in to the situation. But for two different reasons.

#1 scolding, he barks with gently warning tones, and diverts the situation to himself so as to take your mind off of the child, but he is almost playful doing it. Never aggressive, but he is clever!

#2 he is right there for the warm hugs, and wants them too, and pushes and will hold your hand with his muzzle.

Can you tell he is my favorite dog?

But, that is something I learned about anger...and from the dog, HAAA! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Once one of them launched into it tirade and how she had a business, she had children, likely soon would have grandchildren and she was not one of the "#^%%# goldang ^%$##^^# little kids".</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hanora, have things changed since then or does your family still refer to her as one of the kids?
Did her reaction change the way you see her at all or just make you realize that she doesn't like being called a child?

It's as if my family cannot see past who I was as a child. They project these ideals on me and I somehow become a child...an infant who cannot put into words what she is thinking and feeling. It's like we speak a different language. I've thrown little temper tantrums. I've given the silent treatment. I've gone into rooms by myself to sulk. I ACT like a little child! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />
This doesn't happen in any other aspect of my life, but as far as my family knows or seems to care, there are no other aspects of my life.

I'm the only artist. I'm the only athlete. I'm the only poet. I'm the only person who speaks my mind. They treat my talents like I'm a child who needs praise and show no interest in understanding why I do what I do...what I love, what I hate, what makes me tick. I might as well be sitting in the middle of the floor with finger paints. Ooooo...that's beautiful, Smile. Is that a horsey? Oh, what a beautiful horsey. And then they walk out of the room before I can tell them no, it's not a horsey. It's not even an animal. It's a symbolic representation of all of the pain and anger I feel. It represents who I have become and where I am going with my life. It says, LISTEN TO ME!!! DON'T WALK AWAY! YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT ME!

*Sigh*
Smile

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by SmileADay:
<strong>I'd really love to understand this anger that only seems to come out around my family. The main thing that I feel is a need to defend myself and prevent myself from being walked all over or taken advantage of.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You sound like a cat in a room full of rocking chairs.

Your tail may get crunched when you're at floor level. But ... when you rise above floor level, there are plenty of cushy seats.

Rise up, Smile. There's a comfy spot for you somewhere at that family gathering. Go look for it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by SmileADay:
<strong>I think the most annoying thing for me is that my family views me as little Smile. I'm still a kid and always will be.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That one brought me a chuckle. BTDT. I'm still "Danny" to most of my relatives. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Rather, perhaps when you get in touch with your sister next, you might say, "Sis, I love you and I've noticed a LOT of changes in you since you've become a (insert name of religion follower). I'm really proud of you. However, when you talk about my flaws in childhood, I get defensive and feel hurt that you still think of me that way. Would you please refrain from bringing those things up for now?"</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Petals...thanks, I like this. I think I do need to wait until she triggers that reaction in me, again. Otherwise, it would be like trying to get a dog to understand that it's wrong to pee inside the house when he hasn't done it in a week. I need to have a fresh example of what bothers me. I haven't seen either of my sisters or my dad since last Thanksgiving. I kind of do have to wait until they do something wrong before trying to get them to see that it hurts me.

Wflower...you're absolutely right...I need a dog
Husky sounds nice!

Smile <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ October 24, 2003, 11:35 AM: Message edited by: SmileADay ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That one brought me a chuckle. BTDT. I'm still "Danny" to most of my relatives.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do they just call you Danny or do they still treat you like your a kid? I really feel like they treat me like a kid.
Next time one of them makes me feel that way, I plan to let them know--calmly, cooly, maturely--what specifically bothered me and then set a boundary based on that.

My mom will likely tell me to just "chill out", again. "You're too serious". Well, darnit, I wonder how I got that way?!?

Smile

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by SmileADay:
<strong>Do they just call you Danny or do they still treat you like your a kid? I really feel like they treat me like a kid.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Depends on which relative. A couple of my brothers, especially, still treat me like a kid.

I can chalk some of it up to jealousy/envy. The old man didn't beat my [censored] as often as he beat theirs. I was the one who got to go to college. Stuff like that.

But even then, there's the occasional jab over other things. And I tend to be a little cocky about challenges, for example. So, a couple of years ago, one of my brothers owned a small trucking company ... he threw down the gauntlet & said I probably couldn't even figure out how to start one of his rigs, let alone shift it. Problem was, he made the mistake of leaving keys in one parked behind the barn, so I took it for a joyride. The look on his face as I drove past him was priceless. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Someone else in this thread mentioned boundaries. I look at it more as rising to the occasion, or not backing down from a challenge. I don't like being bullied, and I don't put up with it. I'm still "the baby of the family", but certainly not a baby.

Hehe...you go, Dan-O. I'm definitely not shy or scared to take on challenges.

I'm still not sold on the idea that boundaries are the same thing as filtering information. I can see that both are important, but don't know how to relate the two.

In the past, when I've set boundaries, I've gone so far as to say (mostly to my oldest sister) that if this ever happens again, she will not be given another opportunity to do it, again. When it happened, I stuck to my guns. But, I guilted by the family to be forgiving. Stop being so stubborn and childish. Grow up and act maturely. One of the main problems is that I believe in productive confrontation and all of my family are huge conflict avoiders.

So, I can set these boundaries, but it won't be long before I'm the outcast and person in the wrong for "causing" a rift in the family. I'm the one that apparently causes the tension because I refuse to be abused.
I'm sure that if I approach anyone of my family members with my feelings, it will be perceived as , "Smile's at it, again!"
Again...*sigh*

Smile