I found out in early Jan my H was having an affair. He has ended and agreed to stay together for the sake of our DD who is only 8. Contact continued for about two weeks. Last contact was a 1 minute phone call on Jan 22. He tells me there has been NC since. However, I know he's supposed to be going through the withdrawls and depression due to ending the affair. He was emotionally and physically involved with her. He said all the fog babble just like what i've read here on MB. Lucky for me I knew it was comming and have been able for the most part to not take it to heart (still hurts though). What I need help with is what is going on now...I can't tell if I'm just being impatient or if he doesn't want to work on our marriage. He seems very distant and cold quite a bit. On and off seems to continue to want out in one way or another. Talked about how we could stay together but live seperate lifes. I told him I was not having that because what would that teach our little girl. His attitude has made me feel like I'm the one that has torn our family apart, ripped his heart out of this chest, took a crap in it's place and still continue to punch at him verbally and emotionally. I have tried so hard to be patient, understanding, happy etc. We do have a few good moments have spent quite a bit of time together but even some of those times it feels like he's not there. Converstation gets tough. The problem is now he's started up his part time business where he will be out and about on his own. I'm having a hard time trusting that. Still checking phone records but I'm not blind to the fact that he could use work land line to communicate with OW. What else can I do to get things on track? Am I rushing things? He tells me that I need to just let things happen. He showed me more affection and care when we had agreed to get divorced than now that we are is "supposed" to be working on our M. I'm not sure if I covered everything here or not but please ask me if I need to clarify anything. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Hi forthelove,

I'm so sorry to hear about your situation.

I am fairly new to the site myself and I'm wary of giving advice, but I think you should have a look at the thread "False recovery - need voices of experience" which is on page 1 of General Questions II at the moment.

The people who have posted on that thread have had what is called a "false recovery", which means that the betrayed spouse thought that the affair was over, only to find months or sometimes years later that it never ended at all, or restarted very shortly after D Day. I have posted on this thread myself; my experience of false recovery was devastating.

You seem to suspect that there is still contact between your H and OW and like me, you know that it can easily take place at work, where you cannot spy. That makes things very difficult for you and easy for him.

There is a lot more that you need to do before you can feel secure. In the meantime, read the thread and perhaps post a comment on the end of it asking for people to come here and read your thread. There are many people who could give you excellent advice.

Best wishes to you.

Hi Sugarcane,
Thanks for your advise. I found out more yesterday about my H and OW. He actually did see and talk to her yesterday due to work schedule. He lied to me about the contact for most of the day (I didn't suspect it) later in the day he admitted to me that he was working with her that day. He's on 24 and off for 48 hrs. He told me this morning that there was nothing there. The feelings (of love) he had expressed for her didn't resurface. That he was relieved and was a chapter that closed. However, he still tells me that he doesn't think that he will ever be "in love" with me. He loves me but is not in love with me. I'm not sure if I am doing the Plan A very well since we do talk about the A. Not sure what to do next. I'm afraid that since he did see and talk to her that even though he tells me that there is nothing there that in reality there might be. Thanks again for you help.

Never trust a wayward, they always lie.

Do you have an "insider" that can help you?

I would also confront this woman in the most awkward place to tell her off.

Hi imagine,
I know what you mean about not trusting him. My heart wants to believe it but my mind tells me not to. I refuse to confront her. I feel like if I did I would be lowering myself down to her level. Not to mention that I read somewhere that "living well" is a bigger punch to her gut than me confronting her. I also found out last night that one of his cousins (who's he's confided in) actually called the OW and had a little chit chat about life. Didn't get a whole lot of details about that conversation. I can't control what his cousin does or doesn't do. Not sure she has my back anyway so why waste time with her on that.
No "insider" that could help me on that. I'm so raw and feel so hopeless right now.

If he has escaped her clutches, he will be going through withdrawal symptoms. It is difficult to make an impact on him during this stage.

Learn his EN's that you can practice on him later.

Any further contact with this woman can be a trigger to reestablish relations.

Dear forthelove,

I think you need to get greater attention for your thread. I suggested earlier that you go to the False Recovery thread and ask people reading there to post on this thread. The reason I did this is because most of the people posting on the False Recovery thread have experienced affairs in their own marriages and have fought long battles to overcome them. Several of them have consulted with the Harleys. Several of them are long-time posters who have helped many others with their problems. They are well versed in MB strategies. You need their expertise, as well as that of imagine and me, who have been trying to help so far.

I'm a very inexperienced as a poster and wary of giving advice, as I said, but I'm going to suggest that your H is still in his affair and you need to acknowledge that and work from that basis. I say this because he is still in contact with OW and lying to you about it (until you drag the truth out of him). They appear to work at the same place.

Dr Harley says that he must change his job, and you must move your home to another area if necessary, to make continuance of the affair very difficult:
_________________________________________________________________________
Never see or communicate with a former lover

Once an affair is first revealed, whether it's discovered or admitted, the victimized spouse is usually in a state of shock. The first reaction is usually panic, but it's quickly followed by anger. Divorce and sometimes even murder are contemplated. But after some time passes (usually about three weeks), most couples decide that they will try to pull together and save their marriage.

The one having an affair is in no position to bargain, but he or she usually tries anyway. The bargaining effort usually boils down to somehow keeping the lover in the loop. You'd think that the unfaithful spouse would be so aware of his or her weaknesses, and so aware of the pain inflicted, that every effort would be made to avoid further contact with the lover as an act of thoughtfulness to the stunned spouse. But instead, the unfaithful spouse argues that the relationship was "only sexual" or was "emotional but not sexual" or some other peculiar description to prove that continued contact with the lover would be okay.

Most victimized spouses intuitively understand that all contact with a lover must end for life. Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to someone who has been through hell. What victimized spouse would ever want to know that his or her spouse is seeing or communicating with a former lover at work or in some other activity?

In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure.

Look at M.S.'s husband. Here he is, thousands of miles from his lover, and yet he still feels compelled to call her. Can you imagine the trouble M.S. would have had separating them if they had not moved? Their move was the best thing that could have happened to their marriage because it not only revealed the affair, but it also set up the conditions that would make ending it possible -- total separation.

We don't know if R.J. still sees his lover, but he says he has broken off all contact. In many cases where a person is still in town, that's hard to prove. But one thing's for sure, if he ever does see his lover, it will put him in a state of perpetual withdrawal from his addiction, and make the resolution of his marriage essentially impossible. In fact, one of the reasons he is not recovering after three months of separation may be that he is not being truthful about the separation.

Coping with Infidelity: Part 2 - How should affairs end?
___________________________________________________________________

Please see especially the parts of Dr Harley's letter that i have highlighted, and read the rest of the article and the other advice articles on this web site.

I can see that your H would be unwilling to do those things, since he tells you openly that he does not want to be married to you and wants you to live together separately for the children. As far as he seems to be concerned the marriage is over. Now, given my inexperience I don't know how you go about marriage-building in that circumstance, but it might require more than Plan A. Another very important advice letter for you is What are Plan A and Plan B?

It would help if you were to provide details of your situation. How old are you and H? How long have you married, and how many children, of what ages, do you have? What do you know of the affair - how it started, where the liaisons took place and for how long it has been going on? How is it supposed to have ended? What makes you think it HAS ended - did your H tell you he would end it when you found out? What do you know of OW? Is she married? Does her H know of the affair? What is the situation at work? Does she report to your H, or vice versa? Is there a management structure that could be informed of the affair?

Do you work outside the home, or have any separate income? How could you go about separating from your H if it came to that? Would he move out and still maintain you and the children, or would you be forced to move away to family?

I think you are being badly misused and you need urgent expert help to put a stop to this situation. If you read other people's threads on the General Questions II forum you will see that most of them are getting a lot more help and attention than you have been getting here. I STRONGLY suggest that you either put out a call on that forum for help here, as I suggested, or click on the "notify" button at the bottom of this thread and ask the moderators to move this thread to General Questions II. I'm really worried about your situation and I don't think you should struggle on as you are doing.

My heart goes out to you.

Sugarcane,
Thanks for all you help. I have notified the moderator to move my thread to the General questions II as you suggested. My gut tells me that something is still going on because of his behavior. He tells me that it's because he realizes now that because he's over the OW he KNOWS it's the marriage he doesn't want. Last night was horrible. We were already in bed, he was asleep and I was watching TV. He woke up and starts telling me that he had a bad dream about me having 2 affairs and that he was relieved because now he knew that there was NO way the marriage would work. He brought up my EA from years ago. I answered all his questions and he proceeds to tell me that his ego can't let him get past it and doesn't understand why I ever thought to tell him about it if he didn't know. I told him that I admitted it to him because I found out that it's still an AFFAIR even w/o the sex and i felt horrible that i had never told him. He is with a fire dept on for 24 off for 48. He doesn't work at the same station as OW (who was his officer) he transferred out to another station the follow shift from when I found out. A shortage at his old station cause him to swing out there. He really hasn't been away from me since the A ended. I work from home and only go in to the office once a week for about 3 to 4 hours. Of which I now go in on a day he's at work. I heard him on the phone telling her and read the text he sent her the night he ended it. They did communicate on several occassions after he ended it. As far as I know last contact was on 1/22 by phone for a minute according to phone records. He knows I can and do check his phone records so he's not using it to communicate that way. I know she had gotten a seperate cell for him to communicate with her durring the affair so now I wonder if he has gone out to do the same. I'm not dumb enough to know that all he has to do is use the land line at the station. But I can't patrol or check that. I've got new problems now since he started up his part time business where he will be going off on his own to give estimates and such. Not sure how to handle that. Yesterday while making dinner I had suggested to him about wearing our wedding rings again since I took them off the day we told our D8 that we were getting a divorce. Well, when I suggested to him that we could put them back on the day of his bday (3/2) and commit to not looking back but focusing on the future, we would not talk about A or past mistakes. He told me that that sounded great but he believed it would only work if BOTH of us were willing and he was NOT. So here I am again not knowing what or why he's still here if that is how he feels. I have made up my mind to give myself a time frame of Plan A of about 6 months. Not sure if this would work because I don't know for sure if the A IS really over. I only have his word on that and we all know how trust worthy that is.

Hi forthelove,

I'm glad to see you here.

I see that you had some details in your signature line, such as length of marriage and yours and DD's ages. I'm sorry I missed that.

I also missed the fact that this is H's second affair in 3 years, in your relatively short marriage. This is a worrying situation and both these affairs should be discussed here. I wonder about your H's attitude to marriage.

I would appreciate more clarification about these affairs. What are the details of the first one? Who was OW - a colleague? How did you find out about that affair, and what made you think it was over?

I read in an earlier post that this OW is married with no children. Does her H know anything about the affair? Dr Harley's advice is to expose the affair to him.

Your H seems mentally to have left the marriage. He clearly states that he does not want to work on recovering the marriage. I don't know what the MB advice is when a BS is in that situation. However, your planned 6 months seems too long to be in Plan A.

Please keep writing on this thread to keep it on page one of this forum and bring it to people's attention. You need much more help than I can give!

forthelove,

Forgive me. I wrote that this was your H's second affair in your relatively short marriage. 17 Years is not short, relatively or otherwise! I was guessing by your daughter's age; I did not read your sig line properly.

How are you today?

Hi Sugarcane,
Yes, you are right. H tells me that he is totally checked out and seems to have no interest in recovering the marriage. I started the 40 day dare book suggested by the Fireproof your Marriage movie. I'm on day 2. Today wasn't so bad up until he started wanting to talk about our situation. I didn't want to talk about it but I didn't want to shut him down either. Not sure what I'm supposed to do when he wants to talk about it if I'm supposed to not talk about it during Plan A.
I am at such a loss right now. He tells me that being intimate (having sex) makes him feel bad. He tells me that being in the marriage is painful. I don't know if this is still fog babble or what. It's getting REALLY hard to listen and not react.
First affair was a woman at a hospital..He said it was just sex and was no problem ending that one. I found out because he left work to meet with her and something went wrong at the bar...he got roofied (date rape drug)and robbed. Taken to emergency room by ambulance. The hospital called me from his cell phone asking me to identify my husband.That is how I found out about that one. I was very angry, told him that the only reason I was to work at forgiving was because of our D then 4 almost 5. He was very remorseful and begged for forgiveness. Even then he did lie because back then he told me it was the first time he was meeting her which was not true. I found that out at the same time I found out about the second affair. Second affair was with a co-worker (his officer). He tells me it went on for about 4 months. She is married w/o children. No, I have not exposed to him. Have mixed feelings about it because I believe it could back fire. Not sure if he would forgive her or end it. If he ends it that leaves her free to pursue my H or encourage him to leave. I KNOW there is no way I can keep H from talking to her. He tells me that he had not since 1/22 until a week ago when they had to work together again for that day. He tells me he is over her but my gut tells me that is not true. He refused to commit to any plan. Maybe it's too soon what I'm proposing. Maybe the fog hasn't lifted yet. Maybe I'm not doing a good job at Plan A. I just don't know what else to do or if I have the patience to do this. The thought of my little girl growing up in a broken home kills me. Please help.

Hi forthelove,

It must be really upsetting for you to hear your H talk like this.

Has he given you any reasons why he wants to leave the marriage? Why after about 13 years did he become unfaithful, and why have things progressed so far now that he does not want to rebuild with you?

Dr Harley stresses the importance of having emotional needs met in a marriage. Does your H ever say things that you could fit into Dr Harley’s list of most important emotional needs? Plan A is about meeting his needs as far as he will let you meet them, but to meet them at all you must know what they are.

You won’t have much success meeting his needs if he is still in contact with either OW. Even if he did really tell the last one that the affair is over, if he has contact with her at work, or even if there is the possibility of that, he will be distracted from you and his marriage.

Are the two of you now “living apart together”? Are you prepared to do that for much longer?

Keep posting to this thread in the hope that others will see how you are struggling and will give you specific advice. For some reason your plight has drawn very little attention, which is a shame.

ftl, there is not much hope here unless he commits to a plan of recovery that starts with absolute no contact. Just staying away from his most recent OW, which he is not even doing, is not recovery. There was never any plan to recover from the last affair so here you are again.

Why is he working with the OW? Does he refuse to end contact?

I don't think his affair has ended at all. He has just gone further underground.

But you are wasting your time this way if there is no plan, no nothing in place. There was no plan from his last affair and you can see where that has got you. Recovery won't take place all on its own. If you don't fix the problems that led to the affair, then there will be more affairs. AS YOU CAN SEE.

And he is not a serial cheater because of unmet needs, he is a serial cheater because that is his nature and because he does nothing to stop it. Unless that happens, you are ensured of more of the same for years.

If it were me, I would go into Plan B and perhaps look at divorce. The reason I say this is because he will harm you greatly with his abusive behavior if allow him to. He has no intention of changing and made that very clear to you. Women have nervous breakdowns and suffer years of post traumatic stress disorder from living the way you do. You are in a very abusive situation.

Sugarcane,
He tells me that the reason he wants out is because he doesn't feel the same way about me. Loves me but not in love thing. The reason for the first affair to be honest is because I wasn't meeting his sexual needs. I was a bit of a prude and didn't have an open mind to explore new things or frequency. Second A was because I wasn't meeting he recreational needs. I have accepted responsibility for both. I know I didn't. Not because I didn't know what he wanted. He DID voice it to me many,many times. I was just to comfortable in the way things were that I didn't look to build or nurture what we had. I have change both of those. We started going to the gym together, taking a spin class together, having lunch etc. He tells me he noticed the changes and likes the changes but he feels that I won't continue with them. I have to admit that once before I tried making changes and went back to the old habits. I can't blame him for not believing me this time around.
We are still living together, same bed, cuddle on couch, hug and kiss. He jokes with me, chat about different things. That is what is so difficult. When all that is going on but he still tells me he doesn't think he will ever get those feeling back. He tells me it's like when I broke up with my BF (before we met)and I knew I wouldn't go back to him. Well, he say's that I'm the BF and he's me. Last night he told me that his Aunt (who is in a very screwed up marriage for many reasons) advised him to get out NOW. That our D8 would be fine but that he needed to get out NOW and how she wished she had done it back when she was his age. How am I supposed to deal with FAMILY advising him like that? I love him and he really is a great guy the A's are the only things I can say bad about him. He told me again last night that he was not seeing or talking to OW. Don't know what else to do. Do I keep going with Plan A. I was hoping we didn't talk about things but he brought them up. How can I make deposits when we have conversations like that?

Hi Mel,
Thanks for posting. I replied to Sugarcane regarding the unmet needs.If you read my reply you will see that I didn't meet his needs. He voiced them to me and I ignored him. Several times at that. He told me he finally gave up because I just refused to listen. Which was true. I take reponsibility for that. I'm not sure how I can find out if the affair is still going on. Can't afford PI. Not sure what else I can do.

Hi forthelove,

This is not nice to read. You should not meet his ENs out of fear that he will have another affair. I didn't mean to suggest that in my questions to you; I was really trying to find out how you were going about your Plan A.

I agree with MelodyLane; the situation sounds abusive to me. He admits that he likes and appreciates your changes, but he will not respond to them? You must be working really hard at these changes. What is he prepared to do on his side? Why should it be all about YOU working on HIS needs?

I think he is saying these things because he is still in contact, and thus still in the affair, otherwise he might try to save his 17-year marriage. Kids are a great incentive to try and restore a marriage; why isn't he motivated to try at this one, since he appreciates the work you are doing? I know he says he will stay in the house for his daughter, but that isn't the same as restoring a marriage. He can't expect you both to keep this arrangement going until your daughter is...how old? 18? Another ten years without emotional fulfilment for either of you??

Does he expect you to say nothing when he eventually openly dates other women?

What is your response to Melody's suggestions?

Sugarcane,
From what Mel wrote it seemed that she thought that he had the A's just to have them not because his needs weren't being met. But I wasn't meeting his needs and that is why he had the A's. Both times. I thought Plan A was about meeting his needs and making deposits without me expecting anything in return. That is what has been making it so hard. I've read it over and over again to make sure I understood it correctly. About 3 weeks ago on a Sunday we talked again about him leaving and at that point I told him that I was ok with it. Well come that Monday I thought for sure he would go look for a place, nothing...he never left my side. Tuesday...same thing. The following Saturday we talked again and he told me I had nothing to worry about and that he was trying to work at it. He is yo-yoing. Withdrawl? Depression? Still in A...I don't know. Like I said he really hasn't left my side much at all. And that time is accounted for. Not sure If I'm ready for Plan B.

Let's keep posting here in the hope that Melody and others can help. You must keep your thread active.