Ok. So I came to this site about a month ago, knowing that my marriage was in trouble. I wasn't a WS or a BS, but it was still a forum for marriages in trouble, so I posted anyway.

Turns out, this site kinda was a bad fortune teller.

For the background on everything, go to Resolving Conflict under the General Discussion, and read the thread on OVERBEARING MOTHER IN LAW. That's where I thought the main problem was. Turns out I was just blind.

Like the title says, H CLAIMS that he never cheated. He claims that there was never any contact with anyone else, whether physical or emotional or verbal. But I am not so sure I believe him..

I was online today, ironically Googling marital advice and books on the Internet when I went to the Browser History to find this site, rather than typing everything in, and found something horrible. A Singles website. Definitely not anything that I have been to. I swear I felt my stomach drop to the floor. I couldn't believe that it was there. I thought surely it must have just been a pop-up or something that someone accidentally clicked on. So I looked through the rest of the History to make sure I was right, that it was just an accident. Turns out I was wrong. There was more than I could ever see in my worst nightmares. Apparently my H is a member on more than one Singles website. Most are specifically local Singles. There is more porn on my computer than I thought was possible. We've only had this laptop for a couple months. And the worst of all - turns out my husband has a secret email that he has had for almost a year. He CLAIMS that he only has it because his work needed it to email job info. But for the last five years, our joint email account has worked out just fine. SUPPOSEDLY, his office sent emails that were never received, and he thinks it was because of some settings on our joint email. So he set up this other one and put no blocks on the Inbox. I think it was just so he could sign up for all of these accounts I have discovered -- porn memberships, Singles websites. Who knows what else? I don't know if he has been talking to anyone through this email account. I don't know how long it has been active. But why hide the fact that it exists if there is nothing to hide?

Well, today I confronted him about all of it. He didn't deny any of it. But he was cold and heartless about all of it. He was not relieved that anything was finally out. He never said I'M SORRY for any of it. He actually had the nerve to tell me that it is my fault. He told me that he has nothing to be guilty about or be ashamed of because he never actually did anything.

I feel more hurt than if he would have gone out and picked up a girl at a bar or something though. I mean, that I could at least rationalize with alcohol or spontaneity. But this? This is premeditated. He was TRYING to cheat. It's not my fault he didn't succeed. I told him this hurts worse than a one night stand would have. Especially because I have been doing EVERYTHING I can to make our marriage work. I have read so many books and stopped doing so many LBs and started doing everything to put deposits in his Love Bank and all of that stuff. All the while, he is out trying to find a new Mrs?? I feel like he was only keeping me here until he had a new potential secured. Like he didn't wanna be alone. So he was keeping me around long enough to find someone new to turn to. He claims that it was just something that he set up one night when he told me "we're through". I never really thought we were. I knew things were bad, but not THIS bad.

After I confronted him, he did say that he would go and delete everything in his Inbox, but said he refuses to close the account because his work stuff is all in there. But he refused to do it now. He would get to it later. How do I know if he actually follows through? How do I trust him again, without being stupid and blindsided again? Should I believe him that nothing was ever done? I want to. But I also want to believe that none of this is true. And that is just naive and stupid of me.

As we were discussing everything, he would admit to things, but only if I asked the right questions. I kept asking him "Is there anything else?" And he kept saying no. But then I would think of a new question or a new situation. And, in turn, would find out more. He just kept saying "Well, I forgot about that." He never ONCE just came out and admitted anything. Turns out there are things that are years old that he has been lying to me about, even before we were married. I feel like everything we stand for is a giant lie.

He feels no guilt. No remorse. He thinks I am blowing this all out of proportion. He is mad because I am hurt. He thinks it is all stupid. I feel like a fool for believing anything.

If I were you there are several things I would do right a way...

1st I would drop all the accusations.... for now you need proof

2nd Order a book from this web site or find it in a local book store " Surrviving an Affair"...Read it!!!!

3rd from what you have said you H has no clue what you can trace on the computer.. you need to educate your self.... a) find the history log on the tool bar , that will show all sites visited , it can be erased though... that may be what you have already found...b) if he is using a laptop then you will need to google "keylogger" it is a program that you can download that can be completely hid from view and will record all activity on the computer for you to look at later when your H is not around... you will be able to get all e-mail accounts and pass words he accesses... This will help you confirm or deny your suspisions of his activity....c) get the phone records for his cell phone with out him knowing...see who he's been calling...d)get a digital voice recorder,voice activating,battery powered and put under the dash of his car out of view, this can be very tellig.....


4th DO NOT TELL HIM ANYTHING ABOUT ANY OF THIS IT IS CRITICAL
IF HE KNOWS WHAT YOU ARE DOING TO SNOOP HE WILL HIDE IT...

5th Knowledge is Power.... after you have facts then you can
confront him with confidence.....

We will be here....

I feel like such a fool. I did more snooping. The whole time I am doing it I feel disgusted with myself for doing it. But every time I do it, I find more and more. Turns out he was lying. There are dozens of singles websites, every single one local. He has memberships all over the Internet. He claims he is single. He claims he has no kids. He has all of these sick and demented sexual fantasies that he is writing about. He has dozens and dozens of emails exchanged with these women, aged from 18-67. I am just disgusted. I can't even look at him the same.

And worst of all -- he is mad at ME. He can't believe that I would snoop. He is so upset with my invading his privacy. He has not shown a single sign of remorse. He keeps going on and on about how it is all my fault. When I first addressed it today, he told me it started two weeks ago. I know from logging into his accounts today, it started AT LEAST in January. Not all of the sites tell you when the membership was activated. That was just the earliest that I have found.

I didn't even know our marriage was in trouble then!! I am just shaking and crying and a complete wreck over all of this. I want to get past this. I love him. I know, sounds stupid, right? But HE wants out. He says that he is glad I found out because my snooping gives him an excuse to get out.

Do I just let him walk? I want to get past this. I want to go back and have the life and marriage I once had. But how do I do that when my WH wants out? He still says there was never anything physical. But still.

Where do I go from here? I feel so stupid. All this time I have been practicing the book The Love Dare and practicing the things on this site, and he was having EAs all over the place with imaginary women around the country.

He is so angry. He is so mean. He is so hurtful. How can he be like this when I am the one who got hurt and betrayed????? Shouldn't I be the one yelling and screaming and running around? Instead, I am the one trying to fix things while he is trying to run away. I don't understand!

A person with nothing to hide, hides nothing


Have you heard of the concept of 'gaslighting'?

lil,

Yes. I just got done reading a bunch of new stuff on here in this Just Found Out.. section of the Forum. I was posting in a different section, so I hadn't read up on everything here yet.

I just wish I could hear it from him instead of from snooping. Somehow I think it would hurt less if he told me. I guess because then I would only have to deal with what I am finding out. Instead, every time I learn something new, I deal with finding out AND more lies..

It just all seems so impossible.

He comes from a family where his father cheated on his mother for 17 years.. And he knows how much it destroyed their family and trust and everything. He has a lot of hurt and resentment towards his father to this day for all of it. That's why I "knew" that this could never happen to me.. He has told me for years (just shortly after we met) that affairs and cheating and all that comes with it is just the most selfish and worst thing that someone could ever do to another person..

If he hates his father so much for doing it to his mother and him, why is he doing it to me and our kids????

I so wish I could answer that for you but I cannot.

Flicks mother is up to affairage #2 and he loaths it. He still had an A.

I do not understand waywards, I think I will give up trying

not as much as you would hope

{{{KDew}}}

I just don't know what I could do to prove or disprove what H said about it not being physical. I watched him delete the emails. However, I personally logged in to EVERY one of the websites, so I know that he has not cancelled the memberships to any of them. The keyloggers and filters and voice recorders won't do any good if it really is in the past.. But I just don't think I will ever be able to go forward without the truth.

I don't know why. It's not like either truth is better than the other. An A is an A, right?

So, from what everything on here says, my H is acting the part. He is following the script on what should (and has) happened thus far. But I don't know that a Plan B is even possible, financially. Especially in today's times. Any advice?

KDew,

WH has a serious addiction to these sites. I strongly suspect there is much more that you don't know.

At this point you say you want to save your M. If this is so, you need to act now.

I suggest you phone the Harley's for advice. 3 sessions with them will get you the most help right now. You need a concrete plan ASAP if you want to get a handle on WH and yourself.

It's cheaper to do this than divorce.

WH is angry and defensive because he got caught. This is not your fault. This is not your fault.

Ignore everything he says to you, let it roll off your back. It's hard, really hard, but if his words make you crumble you will be of no use to your family. WH needs to see you in control, even if inside you are not. Get what I'm saying???

You can do this.

Yes, you do need a keylogger. It will keep track of WH activity on the comp, he will not stop just because he says he will. It's not that easy. WS's lie through their teeth.

Tell WH's mother what is going on, don't threaten to tell her to WH, just do it. I'm sure she will be of support to you and will have a few things to say to WH.

How old are your kids? Any other family around?

Is there anything in the emails that indicate he has met these women? Snoop through the house?

And .... phone the Harley's .... now.

I am not sure if it was a good thing or not.. But I just went through every last bit of his browser history and cancelled every account I came across. It makes me so sick to see this. It has been going on for months. The things he says to the other people. The things he says about himself. I thought we've been working on things. I kept telling him I didn't feel like he was putting 100% effort into it all. Now it all makes sense.

And I noticed the dates coincided with his lay off in January. So I asked if that was why. He said yes. And I thought it was right. I rationalized it to myself. Well, turns out it started before. More lies. More lies. What else is a lie? I feel like such a worthless person sitting here snooping through everything. But everytime I do, I find more. Why do I feel so guilty for questioning him if I am right?? I want that feeling to go away..

He says it was all "a one time mistake" yet there are (so far) 17 different sites he is an active member of, as recently as yesterday morning. So how can it be a one time mistake?

With his lay off in January and my cutbacks at employment in February, I feel like we have NO MONEY with which to seek any professional help. That is the main reason I am here isntead.

The kids are young. 3yrs and 9mos. The oldest understands that there is tension, but not why.

My H says he wants out.. Says all of those things in Longhorn's first post are like a script for what has happened since discovery. Do I let him leave? For financial reasons, I can't stay here without his money, too. So I would have no option but to walk out.

Your WH is saying and doing all of the expected things. He needs someone to blame for his behaviour, and you are the best person available for the job.

Frankly, I would not have cancelled the accounts. Instead, I would have posted something true about himself to each of the accounts (e.g. "I'm actually married, I have two children...", then changed the password and contact e-mail address for each account so he couldn't change the password back.

He is still lying to you, so you cannot trust him.

The most active accounts I did not close. I did change the emails to mine and the passwords. I want to try to get to the truth. And if he won't tell me, I want to see if I can get one of the OW to reminisce to me or something..

I talked to my MIL a few minutes ago. She is not going to be any help. If you read anything in my post about OVERBEARING MOTHER IN LAW, you will see that she is his enabler, more than anything. After an hour on the phone with her, all she could say is "I don't believe that any of this is possible. He would never do that. Blah. Blah Blah."

So where now??

Send her some copies of your H's correspondence on those sites.

I read her things. She says that I easily could have made up fake posts. (I have an Associate's in Engineering). Yeah, I probably could have. But why would I??

Sounds like your MIL is in denial.

Quite likely that will change, once she's had time to process what you've told her.

KDew,

So sorry that you’re in this position. I know your thread title says “not really an affair”, but really it is. Please download a keylogger immediately and begin tracking his activities. You are nowhere near the truth yet and you can’t rely on him to be honest. Waywards lie. At this point, if his mouth is moving assume he is lying. Get verified truth for yourself and find out about his online activity. He may have more secret emails and secret memberships that you haven’t found yet. Snoop, Snoop, Snoop!!!!

I suspect that at a minimum you are dealing with a porn addiction and maybe even a sex addiction. But, you need to snoop more to find out exactly what you’re dealing with. It’s important to know if you’re dealing with these addictions because recovery will be different than if you’re dealing with a more typical affair. If I were you, I would assume the worst. Assume he is in PA and avoid unprotected SF with him until you know the truth. Too many have been exposed to STD’s before they found out about their WS’s PA and then it was too late. Protect yourself.

Finally, make the investment and call the Harley’s. A few sessions will be well worth the cost. While there are a lot of experienced people on this site with lots of good advice, there really is no substitute for the professional advice and experience of the Harleys.

He is MAD because he got caught. As far as invading his privacy? There's a big difference between "privacy" and "secrecy". Privacy is when you go to the restroom and shut the door to use the facilities. What he is doing is secrecy. There is no room for secrecy in a marriage.

I agree, sounds like you're dealing with a sex addict. He's been playing around on the Net trying to live a fantasy. I wonder if that's why he came home from his mom's, because he couldn't do it there.

Get that keylogger ASAP. Find out if there is a particular OW in the picture.

Have you bought the book "Surviving an Affair" yet? It is the BIBLE around here.

So sorry you're here but you couldn't have found a better place to be for someone going through this.

(((KDew)))

The more and more I dig, the more I think it was a PA. Too many things just don't add up.

At first he said it started when we had a falling out about my MIL and we discussed divorce. I somewhat justified that, because he says "I thought we were through". But seriously, who goes out and looks for the new Mrs. THE DAY you say you want a divorce?

But then I found more. Dates were closer to his lay off day at work. So I justified that it was just he couldn't handle all of the stress, went deep into a depression, and thought that would help him. Not that I am trying to excuse his behaviour. I am just trying to find the root of it.

But, surprise. There was more. So far, it dates back to the beginning of January. When I "thought" we were a happy couple.

The things he writes on these sites.. The emails I have read..

We are struggling BIG TIME financially because of his lay off. We lost the house we were having built. We have had utilities cut off. We are so far in debt. Yet he has actually been PAYING MONEY for these sites. For the past couple months he has been insisting on using mainly cash, because he said it was easier for him to know what he could and could not afford. Was that all just a cover up so he wouldn't have a paper trail?

How can he watch me and his kids lose everything, while he is out doing who knows what and who knows who????

As for the keylogger -- he isn't getting on the computer anymore. I changed all of his account info. And I know his parents have filters on their computer. So it's not possible for him to access anything, unless he goes somewhere else and accesses an account I have not fumbled across yet.

Should I have done that? Or should I "let him" continue to do what he was doing? On the one hand, he doesn't have a chance to connect with any of these other people if I have blocked everything. But on the other hand, that is not him saying that he is giving it all up. That is me keeping him from doing so. Do I need to let him quit all on his own??

Every time I even think about what or who he has done, I get sick. Literally. And the fact that I don't even know what is or isn't the whole truth makes it even worse. Because I just imagine the worst case scenario. I am terrified that my kids have been witness to these things while I was away at work or wherever. Has it been at my house? On my own bed? Am I working to pay for the meals that my H is enjoying with some tramp?

I have so much anger. And NO ONE to talk to about it. Except on here, of course. I am trying SO HARD to do Plan A here. But I feel like that is what got me here. I am being too nice. I am basically saying "It's okay for you to do what you do. I'll be here waiting for you whenever you're done."

Don't get me wrong, I want my H back. But not if he is going to continue to do this even after being caught.

I cannot MAKE HIM guilty or sorry. And he shows NO SIGN of those emotions coming anytime soon. How long do I sit back and pretend like it is all okay??

Plan A has nothing to do with sitting back and pretending nothing is wrong. It has nothing to do with being a doormat for your WS. Plan A is about establishing boundaries for yourself and trying to meet as many of his EN’s as he will allow. Plan A is about establishing NC, exposing his affair to ANYONE who may have any influence on him including friends and family. Please find the post about the carrot and stick of plan A.

Also, just because he is off of the computer doesn’t mean he’s not continuing with his infidelity. Check his cell phone logs for strange numbers with lots of calls. Put voice activated recorders in his car and in the house where he is likely to make phone calls. You have cut off one means of access but this will not end his contact if there is an affair. He will just find new ways to continue. You have to keep snooping. You owe this to your children to protect them from WS’s behavior.

Only you can decide whether to work towards recovery once you have all of the facts about what is going on. But, regardless of that, you need to talk to a lawyer about your rights and what you can do to protect yourself, your children, and your finances. We have seen many BS’s ruined financially by expenses their WS rang up to support their affairs. We have seen too many BS’s end up with less than satisfactory custody arrangements because they refused to act until it was too late. I’m not saying to file for divorce or separation. I am just telling you to protect yourself as much as possible before you miss the opportunity. Everyone forgets that you can work on saving your marriage even if you file legal paperwork to protect your future. I didn’t file, but I did talk to my lawyer the day after I caught my wife with POSOM and got the info I needed to make informed decisions about my future.

Finally, remember to take care of yourself. Your kids need at least one healthy and stable parent. Also, remember that NONE of this is your fault. This is all about his bad choices. You contributed to the problems in your marriage, but the choice to have an affair is 100% his. Keep your head up and do whatever you need to do to keep your health and sanity. Along with this, don’t forget my suggestion in my last post to get checked for STD’s and avoid any unprotected SF with him if you have any suspicion that his affair is physical. Always assume that waywards didn’t use protection because they almost never do. You have to protect yourself and your health because you certainly can’t trust him to do it.

Good luck and God bless

I know that I am not a doormat. I know that it is not my fault. I have exposed him. His family knows. My family knows. My family has suspected it for even longer than I thought, they just never said anything because they didn't want to start a fight between us with nothing to go on other than gut.

His family, however, is a completely different story. All I have spoken to so far is his mother. She and I haven't talked for almost two months because of a separate fight, so I am not exactly sure if that was the way to go. Like I said, she and her husband dealt with infidelity. Long term. Most of my H's life his father was a wayward. And my MIL 100% takes the blame for it. So talking to her pretty much went like this: "My son would never do that to you. BUT IF HE DID, it's your fault."

So my exposure went to two extremes --

MY FAMILY says leave him. He doesn't deserve me. There have been lies since day one. (And that is true. There were a lot of lies and secrecy in the beginning. I guess I should have seen the giant red flag.) However, they also assured me that they will stand behind me 100% if I do choose to stay with him. My parents have an A in their history. Completely different situation, but still an A. And they have been married for 30 years, in September.

HIS FAMILY is telling him to leave me. I pushed him into the A. It was my fault. I wasn't doing this or I was doing that. If I would have been there for him, he wouldn't have strayed.. Blah.

I realize that the final decision has to come between him and me. But we have been going through the fighting for about two months (even though the A wasn't proven until yesterday). And all the time we've been fighting, he NEVER ONCE said flat out I WANT TO TRY. It was always conditional. It was always "Well, if you do this and this and this, then I will stick around." It has always been me changing everything. I guess he thinks he is the perfect H?

How do I fill ENs if he isn't here? If he is gone? NC is kinda established, but, like I said, because I hindered it. Not because he gave it up.

I will admit to ANYONE. I WANT THIS TO WORK. I realize that EAs and PAs are disgustingly common. And I realize that it is also (fairly) common to get through them. But I feel like the more I "kiss a@@" by trying to fill his ENs, the more it angers him because I am not listening to his requests -- that I am not just divorcing him over this.

But I THINK he is just saying this out of anger and confusion. This "fog" that everyone on here talks about. I know he wants out of the marriage that we are living today. Nobody wants to be in THIS. But THIS isn't our marriage. THIS is only today. I can't honestly believe that he wants out completely.

Before the discovery, when we were just fighting about the other stuff, I tried to explain to him that a divorce is not a solution. I tried to explain all of the negative things that would result from a D. He said I was just trying to scare him into staying in the M.

It's like he tries to see how bad he can hurt me. It feels like he actually ponders "What would be the most hurtful thing I could tell my W?"

How can someone who "loves" me do that?

KDew,

Your emotions are all over the place right now and that’s to be expected. The best thing you can do, short of contacting the Harley’s is to get a plan together for what you are going to do and follow it. There is a post on here that you can probably search and find about the carrot and stick of Plan A that gives a great description of what Plan A is and how it works. Find it and read it. You can’t “feel” your way through this. You need a plan. A good plan will help you do the right thing even when your emotions tell you to do something else.

I still think you are dealing with an addiction of some sort and until he addresses that addiction you can NOT recover your marriage. Plan A will not work as long as this addiction continues. The anger that he is directing at you is a defense mechanism that’s a lot easier to him than admitting his problems and working on them. Again I urge you to protect yourself because his actions are being driven by this addiction. Again, NOTHING WILL HELP YOUR MARRIAGE UNTIL HE DEALS WITH HIS ADDICTION.

Also, you need to start setting some boundaries for what you will accept. He will continue to walk all over you as long as you allow it. You say that you are not a doormat, yet you allow him to make demands on you if you want him to stay. It’s time for you to start setting the boundaries. Tell him that you love him dearly but that you will not stay in a marriage with someone who lies to you and lives a secret life. You need to decide what you need from him for you to commit to staying in this marriage. You cannot want this enough for both of you.

I loved my wife dearly and wanted with all my heart for my marriage to work out, but I refused to accept marriage at all cost. She needed to show me that she was as committed to recovery as I was or we were just wasting our time. I gave her a list of things that I needed from her to continue with recovery. To give you some examples for your situation, how about: 1. NC with the women he’s in email contact with. 2. NC with any PA partner. 3. NO pornography and allow you to install a filter on the computer that only you have the password to. 3. Access to all of his email and online memberships, the ones you know about and any others that you may not. 4. IC for him to deal with HIS addictions. MC with the counselor of your choice for as long as you feel that you need it. There are many more, but these are just a few examples.

By the way, NC is not something that you can establish through blocking his emails and website access. NC is something that he establishes to help you and includes a letter to any EA or PA party that he writes and you send.

Quiet honestly, if you didn’t have children I would say that it was time to head straight to divorce. You have a husband that you say has been dishonest with you for your entire marriage and has an addiction that he will not acknowledge. SO please, only accept a marriage that is acceptable to you. DON”T SETTLE. You’re too young to spend years in a marriage that is built on dishonesty with a person that has no respect for you. You deserve better than this.

You can't make him want this marriage or want to change.