Morning Hope and Sere,

I will be ok when he is actually gone, its the thoughts of it thats killing me. he doesnt seem in the least bit bothered that i am upset about it even though i am doing my very best not to show it to him. he is busy packing away his bits and pieces, getting his hair cut, packing his sun creams, he even asked me to get him some just for men hair dye in the pharmacy he uses to cover his grey bits, i felt like telling him to get it himself but i kept my mouth shut. I have gotten it for him before on many occasions so if i had to have said no then a row would have started and all my good behaviour would have gone out the window. I really cannot be around when he goes i just cant it would upset me too much so i think i will just head off to the beach before he gets up and leave him a voicemail on his phone to say goodbye and safe journey, i will try my best to sound upbeat too maybe say something like this:

Hi H just I wont be at home when you go, i am a bit upset still that you are going so it would be better for me if i wasnt there when you leave. I hope you have a safe trip, let me know that you arrived safely. See you soon.

I dont think he will bother his [censored] ringing me while he is away, he will be texting the kids for sure but he wont want to be telling me how the trip is going, he is not mentioning it now so he is hardly going to ring me from over there, i dont want to know about it anyway. Aghhhhhhh I could cheerfully sock him one LOL :twobyfour:

I know i am impatient about the weight loss but 3 months are almost gone and i have only lost 10lbs. We are going for a weeks holiday at the end of june just me him and d and i really wanted to have a good bit of weight off by then. We are going on another trip then in Mid august for 18 days to our holiday place in spain so i have to keep working my [censored] off to shift this weight. I remember last year on the holidays i was so disgusted with myself at how i looked and i promised myself that this year would be different.

Thanks so much for the encouragement girls you dont know how much help you are to me, so many thanks to you both .


As PLEASE HELP would say!

YOU CAN DO THIS! YOU CAN DO THIS! YOU CAN DO THIS

Hi Gabrielle,

I'm off out now with FWH so don't have much time, but I just wanted to wish you luck tomorrow and let you know that I'll be thinking of you.

Your short note to him sounds fine. How about lightening it up with - you know what I'm like for blubbing, and I'm sure you won't want to see me crying buckets as you drive away. - Just an idea.

Also, why don't you text him while he is away. Just light things, such as weather, TV, etc. Keep the lines of communication as open as possible.

I know this is hard. Hugs to you. Be strong. You can do this!

Hi Sere,

Well i blew it! There were words between us! Things got nasty, i asked him where he would be staying and he asked me why did i want to know and of course i got mad and said because i am your wife thats why! I have a right to know.

Then he was going on and on about his friend who is going away with him, about how much fun they would have, this man is seperated from his wife, she walked out on him.i got smart and asked him if his friend was gay by any chance, he said why do you say that? Your not the first person that said that! and i said so what if he is.

Things went downhill from there, he told me i never liked any of his friends and i said thats because most of them were scum who cheated on their wives and then told me he could not stand the sight of me that i was a sad [censored] who had no friends. He stormed off to bed.

So thats it! I am actually glad he is going now, at least i wont have to put up with the silent treatment for the next five days. Sorry for venting.

Gabrielle, I'm so sorry things didn't go well. I've been thinking about you all morning and praying that the parting would go well.

How do you feel? Angry or sad? How much damage has been done? How is your LB? Don't let it empty....

Hi Sere,
Before he left i went downstairs and said to him that i was sorry for the angry outbursts from me last night it was because i was upset and hurt that he was going. He said well you started it. I told him i was upset he was going away with a bunch of men and he said "for your information most of them are married and they dont have their wives fighting with them over it"

I said well maybe they discussed it with their wives before they made that decision, he said yeah and i know what i would have been told if i had to have discussed it with you, i am going now anyway and i will be going again too so deal with it!

I said well you are a married man and you are acting as if you are a single one! he said am I? and who's fault is that?

I left the house then and went to the beach to try and calm down, by the time i came back he had gone. I sent him a text and told him to have a safe trip and to let us know that he arrived safely. He text back (ok)

I dont know what i am feeling, i am angry, sad, fed up with myself for undoing all the hard work i had put in lately in the space of a few minutes. Well he told me how he feels about me last night, i suppose i knew it all along and i just didnt want to accept it. I am going to keep on looking after myself from here on in and try and become a better person. I need to get a life for myself, i depend way too much on him for my happiness and its getting me nowhere fast!

Hi Gabzz,

your LB balance sounds pretty low at the moment, and I'm not surprised. Number 1 though is you know not to take to heart things that are said during a heated argument. He may have said some hurtful things, but you cannot know that he really meant them. He just spouted things that he knew would hurt you, and here you are hurting whilst he is on his way to a jolly boy holiday. Take care of yourself and do not let what has happened in the last 24 hours set your plan Gabzz back.

You've been working so hard and have been seeing slight improvements in your relationship with H. Your H will have seen and noticed your efforts, but of course will have had no intention of cancelling his holiday. Your efforts make it harder for him to justify to himself his behaviour in organising the holiday without your knowledge. He therefore presses your buttons knowing you will respond in a certain way, and hey presto, you allow him to buy back into his belief that his behaviour is justifiable, and he gets to go on holiday with a "clear conscience".

It's a real shame that this has happened. Take a few days to really think about what you want and make a plan for some real communication with your H when he gets home. A quick question though. Are you unhappy that he is on a boys holiday without you or are you unhappy with the way he organised it without consulting you?

Hi Sere,
My LB balance is at a zero at the moment, To answer your question, Im unhappy with both really, the fact that he organised it without consulting me tells me he doesnt care about me or my feelings. The fact that he has gone away without me and (wanted to)really hurts the most, we have never gone away without each other before and i think that is why i am so so upset.

He actually thinks its ok to do this, he cannot understand why i am getting so upset. He said that most of the other men are married and they didnt have wives getting upset about it, i didnt say this to him but i thought it (maybe they didnt go through infidelity in their marriage so there isint a trust issue).

I know it doesnt seem like much to other people but to me his going away like that is like a knife been twisted in my chest. I know deep down i still love him but i really dont like him as a person anymore, he is so sneaky and self centered. He is so wrapped up in himself.

I am having a bad day today but i will be ok by tomorrow. Thanks for listening to me. xxx

Hi Gabzz, this is not the Gabbz that is always cheering me up! Ok feel sorry for yourself for a day or 2 and then pick yourself up and get going. We are giving these men too too much power. I agree with the last couple of sentences. You are a good person and work on being a better one. Do you work and have any mates you can hang with? Go out for that salsa class -- just because. it will be great for just YOU. Confidence attracts - neediness detracts.

Now if you need a vacation you can always come to this side of the pond. I live on an island with palm trees, beaches and margaritas. Your D is same age as mine. I can attest that a holiday does the soul good.

Remember you can do it!!

Morning Gabzz. How are you feeling today? A little better I hope? I have just re-read your entire thread just to make sure you are still getting good advice for your situation, and I thought it may be a good idea to re-post the facts as you stated them.

In 1999 your H has A with 20 year old OW. It ends and H tells you he thought you didn't love him anymore.

You both do a little MC but it wasn't working for you so that ends and even though there is some improvement for a couple of years, neither of you really addresses the problems in your M and you both end up drifting along and not meeting each others needs.

In 2006, you mum passes away, you grieve, and then quite understandably you begin to spend a lot of time with your dad. He needs you. Shortly after your H tells you he doesn't love you anymore and that the M as far as he is concerned is over. He no longer wears his wedding ring.

In 2007, he tells you he will stay with you only until D reaches 18.

There has been no sex and you have not shared a bed with your H since 2006/2007.

Your H's number 1 EN is Admiration. He clearly has a caring nature as he works with children in care.

Right, first of all I won't dwell on the selfishness of your H as he is not here seeking advice. You are. I won't dwell on his failures in the M because again, he is not here seeking to repair the M. You are. Please don't think I am taking his side in this, but it may help to see things from his perspective for a moment.

In his mind, this is how he could see things.

He has A with unsuitable much younger woman. It is a cry for help, attention seeking if you like. He says he feels unloved. You don't buy into MC even though he says he is getting something from it. You hold resentment against him for the A and don't meet his needs even though he was crying out for you to meet them. He gives you 7 years and things get worse.

Your mum passes away and he gets even less attention. Instead you choose to devote yourself to your dad. So when you want to, you can devote your time and energy to someone. It's the final straw for him. You've rejected him once too often. He tells you the M is over.

At this point you have an opportunity to start meeting his needs, but you don't take it and you stop having sex together.

Let me restate that I am certainly not condoning the actions of your H, but trying to help you to see what he MAY be feeling about your actions and the part you have played in breaking your M. I am a BS and will never condone someone having an A. Its is a terrible and abusive thing to do, but waywards nearly always believe they have some justification, and in their foggy little minds, you have played a part in pushing them into it.

Now to the current situation. You find out he is taking a holiday with the boys and suddenly you want to work on the M. What is it about him going on holiday that has finally made you want to really work on your M?

He sees your recent behaviour as an attempt to try to control and manpulate him. In his mind he is perfectly able to go on holiday without you because he told you over 2 years ago that the M was over. He sees your upset and anger about the holiday as a major Love Buster. He probably doesn't believe that you are upset about the holiday because you love him.

I hope I have not upset you by any of what I have written. I can only form opinions on brief details of your M that you have provided on this forum, and of course they are only the merest of details in a 21 year marriage.

Are you sure you want to fix this M? What do you love about your H? If you want to really repair the M, then you still have a chance but it has been neglected for so long that it is going to be really hard work and you need your H to buy into at least a part of it. Maybe at this stage, you can ask him to just work on the two of you communicating more, getting along better, understanding each other better. You will both need to do this anyway, regardless of what happens to your M. You are tied together for life because you have 2 children together.

Remember this was always going to be a long road and you are taking small steps.

Please know that I only write this with love. I certainly don't want to hurt you, especially this weekend, but before he comes home you need to do a lot of thinking, and it may just help a little if you walk in his shoes for just a minute.

Lots of love to you, and a big hug from a very sunny but cold England. xx

Hey Gabzz

Thought I'd catch up on your thread. 10lb is still progress - don't be disheartened - better to lose it slower.


Just from reading Sere's quick review:

I would feel powerless in your situation. Can you do something to take control? Plan a special treat for you while he's away - some pampering?
Something along the lines of:
"Oh well he's gone off for a bit - I must make the most of my time to myself"


Will the break be of some benefit? - he may actually feel slightly guilty for going in the manner he did, particualrly if on his return you are positive about the trip being positive for both him and you and continue to meet ENs without stressing about who he was with and what he got up to while he was away.

I think there are 2 choices here:

To look forward to the end of the trip and see it as a chance to start over again

or

To look backwards and dwell on the fact that he didn't care enough to give you the opportunity to voice your fears about him going away and carry on in the same manner when he returns. You feeling powerless.

So hard to keep plugging away at it. Can you keep communication positive on his return? When something happens that makes you feel even slightly positive let him know.

Are you a natural optimist?

ST

Hi Sere,

Thank you for taking the time and effort to go over my thread from the start, i really do appreciate your help. I am going to take some time out today and really think this through.

You make a lot of sense, you really do. I did text him this morning to see how he is doing, he had a sore foot before he left so i asked him how it was. He text me back and told me it was a lot better today and that it is pouring down with rain over there at the moment. (cant help but smile at that) I will check back in later and tell you what i am feeling. Thanks again so much.

Love Gabrielle xxx

Hi StayTogether,

Thanks very much for checking my posts, my head feels a bit scrambled today with all the upset of yesterday but i do feel a bit better after some sleep. I was really exhausted yesterday because i didnt sleep too well in the build up to him going. I am a born optimist by nature, i always try to see the positive side of things, but this is hard for me to deal with. Its the feeling of powerlessness (if thats a word :)) I will pick myself up and dust myself off, i have to to maintain my sanity in all of this.

I will come back later with more thoughts on what Sere has said which is all too true. I need time to digest it and think about what i really want.

Take care and thanks again for dropping in.

Gabrielle x

Hi Gabzz,

I'm so relieved you've posted and you're OK with what I said. If nothing else, you've got something to think about, but I just want to reiterate that you alone are not to blame for the problems in your marriage. If your H was posting, he'd be getting plenty of 2x4's for his IB and selfishness. Unfortunately, he's not posting yet so I don't get to give him what for...

I think you're amazing to have a heart big enough to try to heal your marriage at this stage, and if you can get your H to buy into trying for marriage recovery, I am sure you will both be able to have a great marriage.

Well done for texting him too, and good to see that he replied. You said earlier in the thread that you thought he may not bother, so it's good.

Such a shame it's raining over there.

I'm off now to have sunday lunch with FWH and the children. Enjoy the rest of the weekend, and I'll check back in later to see how you are.

Gabzz,

I have not read your whole thread but bits and pieces as well as the last to pages. Could you explain to me why you and your H have and no SF for the last year or two?

Also could you please express why you did not want him to go on the trip or was it you were mad because he did not consult you on the decision to go?

Also could you explain why you or he would want to remain in this marriage other than waiting for your child to reach the age of 18?

I have some thoughts on all of this, but I need some data to start with. Also please let me know where and what this trip is about. I haven't gone back far enough to know the details of the trip.

I look forward to hearing from you.

God Bless,

JL

Hi Gabzz, how are you? thinking about you today. Lots to digest from Sere.

I am like you also the optimist and we like to find a solution to make it right. That is why we keep trying.

I truly think that you want this but it will have to be a life long commitment -- not till it just becomes right again.

I too came at a crossroad in my M 12 years ago and H wanted to leave after his brother died suddenly; there was no OW at that time. I guilted him into staying and we worked on things ourselves for awhile and then we drifted again till H took up with OW. Now H wants to drive this train wreck all the way to divorce court.

You at least have a chance while there is no OW in picture. Just had to see how bad you want this. I do think it is workable but it will take effort on both parts.

Keep us posted.

Morning Gabzz,

how are you today? I hope you slept well and have woken in a positive frame of mind. Don't forget plan Gabzz. You're working on YOU, so don't forget to keep visualising the happy, positive, fit and slim you that is emerging.

It's great to see that Just Learning is here to help you. You know you're going to get advice from the very best now.

Love to you xx

Sorry Gabzz, that post above from BB was me. My H used my laptop last night and didn't log out.

Apologies for any confusion.

Hi Sere,

Sorry for not getting back to you sooner, i have just been reading your husbands thread, i didnt realise he was posting here, you seem to be recovering well, it really is the way forward that there is good communication between you.

Well that post from you was definately food for thought! I took some time out to question myself about my feelings and what my hopes are for the future.


I have always loved him, we had a good marriage up until he started working in nightclubs as security, this was in addition to his full time job, he worked 4 nights per week at this up until 4 years ago. He worked at this for 10 years in total, I was at home with the kids on my own most of the days and 4 nights as well, sometimes five if there was a bank holiday in the week.

He wouldnt come in until about 4/5 am and then next day he would be too tired to do anything or go anywhere as a family, i told him we didnt need the extra money that much, that we never saw him anymore etc but he kept on doing it anyway and so i started to resent him. Then the affair happened, he met her at this nightclub, it lasted for 3 months until i found out. When it all came out he told me everything, i asked him all the details and i got them no matter how hurtful they were. I had to know them and in fairness to him he did answer all my questions and believe me i asked a lot, i needed to know all the sordid details even though they ripped my heart in two.

My H is like his father in many ways, i dont mean this in a bad way but he was always told to (make hay while the sun shines) earn as much as you can, whenever you can for a rainy day. He just didnt know when enough was enough, by the time he stopped working in the nightclubs our marriage was in serious trouble.

I asked him to give up the nightclub work at the time but he was advised by his cronies there not to, they told him that if the marriage ended he would need every penny to surive and to pay all his expenses etc so he didnt and i didnt demand it, i know now i should have, i set the bar way too low.

I know i need to get a life for myself, I need to get out there and meet friends and have a social life that doesnt involve my H, i depend on him way too much for my happiness and it is not healthy for me to be this way.

It wasnt only when he told me that he was going on this trip that i decided i wanted to work on the marriage, i knew when he told me two years ago that he had checked out of the marriage that i didnt want it to end but i just didnt know what to do to fix it, i should have come back here straight away but i didnt think of it, i was just running around like a headless chicken trying to do the right things to meet his EN but getting nowhere fast. I didnt have a plan in place, that was my biggest mistake.

I would like to have a better marriage with my H, it seems now that the nightclub work has stopped, the kids are nearly grown up that now we should be having some fun together but instead he is going off having fun with the lads and i am left here on my own as usual.

I have thought long and hard about why i was so upset about his trip to spain and i think it was that he didnt think enough of me to ask me if i minded or to even consult me about it until it was already booked.

I dont want to portray him as a bad person because he is not, he has been a great father to the kids and a good husband to me for most of the time, i just wish he had to have spent more time with me because this would be my no 1 EN. I longed to spend time with him but he was just never around much.

He phoned home Monday and he seemed in good form despite the rain which is still happening (shame)
He was all chat as if nothing happened which i suppose is a good thing.

I will finish off now and check back in tomorrow.

Gabrielle x

Hey Gabzz, stop doing that rain dance! lol..

Hope you had a nice chat with him and no LB. Was he having a good time in spite of the weather. A bunch of men sitting together in the rain -- what a time...oh well

It is called Karma.

You have been doing some personal inventory and soul searching. Good for you. It does help us to keep those changes going. take care.

Hi Gabzz,

I was worried about you yesterday when you didn't post. So glad you're back. It's no wonder you two have grown apart if he was working two jobs, especially the nightclub job. Working in a club is a recipe for disaster in any marriage.

Did the two of you ever do the EN's questionnaire? I know you have kind of worked out that his 2 top needs are Ad and PA. Does he know what your top EN's are?

Has he ever been under the impression that you require financial security, or given that his father seemed so keen on making money whenever possible that his belief was that he had to provide for his family above all else? I know that the recession of the early 1990's when mortgage rates were at 15% changed my whole attitude to money, and for a time my perspective on what was so important became skewed by my need to keep my home secure. I also worked two jobs for a time, and it was exhausting. I had no energy for anything else.

It is completely understandable that you resented him for not spending time with you. Quality time with your spouse is vital for a good marriage, and resentment is a killer for marriages. Did your H ever say something along the lines of "I am doing all this extra work for you and the kids and you don't even appreciate it. Here I am, exhausted at working two jobs and all you do is moan at me".

I ask because the same thing happened with me and my H. We have our own business and last year before his A, he was working silly hours in the business, from 7am to 11pm most nights. I felt so lonely and neglected and complained to him. He resented me for making the complaint because in his mind, he was doing it all for me and the kids.

If only we had understood each other!!!!!

It's awful to look back isn't it, because when you do you can see where things started to go wrong, and then you realise that if only you had communicated more, it would never have started to go wrong at all. It sounds from your story that you two have simply lost each other along the way, and if that's the case, then you just need a plan to find each other again. You can do this Gabzz.

Anyway, it's all in the past now so what are you going to do about it now? Do you think your H will be open to a loooooong and positive conversation about your future?

How are you feeling? I hope you're still walking and you are still focusing on Plan Gabzz. Your future can be so bright. I feel so positive for you.

Love to you, and speak soon, xx