But did you call her parents?

All you have to do is go online and find a service that will track down OM's family. Or hire a PI to do it. Or ask a friend to follow him to get an address.

But did you call her parents?

RC,

Is the phone number you have a cell phone or landline number? If it is a landline, the first thing you can do is to go to Google and type the phone number into the search bar and hit <search>...

If the Google search turns up nothing, then go to whitepages.com and try there…

If it is a listed number you will get his name and address. That is how I verified who OM was.

If it is a cell phone number, you will have to pay for that information, but a PI should be able to get it and some online search engines can sell it to you as well.

If you have a name, you might do a Google search on his name. You should also try Yahoo and ask.com.

Follow her clandestinely to get a car, license plate or other info about him. Follow him or get someone else to follow him to find out all you can about him. Find out where he works. Find out where he lives. Find out who he hangs out with, where he eats lunch, what gym he uses to work out…

You end by saying you will fight your message, but you mention encouraging her to move out…WTF? Which do you want her to do? Do you want her to leave so that you can just heal and move on or do you want to try to fight for your marriage? Pick one and whichever it is; everything you do must flow from that decision.

Understand that you will never be able to reason with her to end the affair. It just won’t happen. She is addicted to the feelings she gets from OM and will act like any addict who has just had their source threatened.

Do you understand Plan A? Do you grasp the two sides of Plan A, the carrot (making you a better you in order to remove what she considers to be what is wrong with you) and the stick (making the consequences for her choice to continue the affair fall squarely on her shoulders)?

Can you identify her top three or four ENs? Do you know which Love Busters you are most likely to commit? Can you come up with the money to call the Coaching Center for an appointment with Steve or Jennifer?

You can’t win this fight by floundering around trying to decide what to do next in response to what she does at each step along the way. You need a real plan in order to be able to do specific things in specific sequence to pressure the affair, show her that you are the better choice over OM and that she will not just get to walk away and have you roll over and play dead while she destroys your marriage.

Mark

One thing that I would strongly urge you to do - buy a voice activated digital recorder and carry it with you anytime you are in the house. Voice-activated because then you won't get caught turning it on.

What you record isn't admissible in a court of law but will save your butt if she tries to manufacture an incident and get you arrested and tossed out of your house with a restraining order. You don't know how easy it is for women to do this.

No I have not. I know you are right but it is the one area I am still not resolute on. Her friends no problem. I still need to deal with that regardless of all the excellent advise. Don't think it will help, but I am sure that is me in denial.

He only has a cell as far as I know. I know his name and generally where he lives. I thought I was following Plan A. I have been resolute with her about OM, not engaging her with the crap she throws up. We did the LB thing a year or so ago and her biggest EN was approval. I have been trying to do that as much as possible. It is hard to with the two faces that I live with. Not much opportunity to approve of her choices atm.

I am not floundering. I am trying to do the best in a very difficult situation. But then you know that. I appreciate all the comments and gentle (and not so gentle) nudges.

Here is what I am doing:

Carrot. No LB (not arguing passing jusgement etc) Accepting that she may chose to move out and trying to be a pleasant person. I call and tell her where I am. Tell her good night and try to keep the talk simple and pleasant. Help some around the house (my fair share) and asking if she needs anything extra. I am walking, lost 10 pounds, journaling and reading here.

Stick. I am resolute and very explicit that I will not accept anything less than NC. I don't argue just change the subject. I have exposed her to everyone I can except her parents. I just have to think about that a bit more. I do need to do some PI work on details of OM. My sister is recently laid off and looking for a project. I may sick her on that and see what she can find out. I have some reason to believe that he goes to church. If I can find that out I will gladly call his pastor. Or anyone else that I can find. I was asking WW about his recently gone girlfriend. She said I could call OM and ask for her number. Seemed too easy and did not pursue that. Anyone think that is worth looking into?

Ok maybe I misread something or don't understand. I have been in Plan A for a while (3 months before I came here) but without exposure. I was doing all the nice stuff but not working on me. Do I want her to leave no. But it is all she talks about and if I am reading Plan A right, trying to talk her out of it is wrong. I agree that things are tough and try not to engage her. When I express the NC idea she is immediately angry and were are back to moving out. I am getting frustrated. I thought I understood the basic premises. I will go back and read again......

What is your timeframe for staying in Plan A?

rosecroix,
Is this still the case? Do you still know little about him? Do you only know his cell phone number still? Your months of "plan A" have not been very useful if this is the case. Your wife is in an addictive relationship and you have been threatening her with taking her "crack pipe" away from her. I see this as the key problem in your situation. You need to get more information about the OM and you need to do this now. Tell us all you know about the OM PLEASE. People here want to help you succeed!! Just tell us all you know about OM so we are all on the same page with you!!

What I know about the OM is from my WW but I think it is essentially true. I know where he works. She worked as a contractor for his company. She helped him get some legal difficulties taken care supposedly that were going to threaten his job. Something about he has a misdemeanor record that somehow showed up as a felony ( I know...) and she helped him get it ironed out. That's why they initially spent so much time talking. WW is a helper. Low self esteem and loves to help needy people. Other thing is his brother is dying of cancer and he tells me that she listens and helps him through that. I have met him once. I know the area where he lives but not the exact house. I have done all sorts of webs searches and as best I can tell he doesn't have a landline. I cannot locate his email. I am sort of "good with computers" so I could trap what is going in and out on the internet easily. That's another one of those things I need to rationalize. He has a common name (at least around here) so that makes it tough. I have only met him once and don't really recall what he looks like. I think he is a little younger than my wife. She has been vague about that when I ask. Says she doesn't know. He has two small children that he has to take care of. Another excuse for him and her to get together. He often needs help and she says that is why he calls her. I mentioned in a previous post that I may need to get my sister (who is furious and wants to help) doing a little PI work.

All I really know....

She says she is moving out mid may. I plan to stay in that mode at least till then. Her finances are not good and she has several dogs she has collected over the years that she wants to take. It will be hard for her to find a place so it may be longer. I know this is a subtle difference, but if she leaves does that make Plan B more difficult? Will she see that I was able to disconnect? I will write her a PB letter if she does leave on her own. If this is all just a threat to try to scare me, then I would probably keep Plan A up for maybe another month. I am exhausted and truly running out of love for this woman. Without NC I need a break or I won't come back no matter what. I find myself analyzing this situation everyday and if I weighed this out, the bads are owverwhelming my love and good things. My proffesion is to be a problem solver and the logical answer is staring at me. The emotional or what is in my heart is keeping me here at the moment.

RC,

I don't know how much time I have since I'm at work, so I will try to be brief and see if others might be able to flesh some of this out.

My reference to you floundering was meant to get you to identify your main goal (saving your marriage) and to focus your energies on that single goal. What you do, say and even think needs to be directed at that one single thing if you are to be able to get through Plan A with an intact marriage.

You can't fix your marriage. It is broken beyond repair. That is not to say that you can't save it and rebuild it once it is saved, but fixing it isn't going to happen during this time of Plan A. Both of you have to fix things in order for this to work and until you have broken the affair to pieces and gotten her on board with recovery, she won't help you in any way at all.

Plan A is NOT about being nice to her. It isn't about agreeing with her when she says she is moving out and it isn't about arguing with her to try to get her to not move out.

The reason I asked if you could identify her top 3 or 4 ENs is because unless you are meeting those ENs, she is only still there out of actual respect for you and the marriage. She has decided the marriage is not worth any effort, but still has not "crossed the line" in her mind and actually run off with OM. (Not saying it is still necessarily EA and not PA already only that she hasn't physically left but has already checked out.)

If you focus on not just avoiding Love Busters (not just being nice, but having identified the LBs that you routinely commit and have taken steps to keep them under control) but also on making deposits into her Love Bank, then as time goes on she will be more attracted to you and the relationship with OM will diminish in her mind, especially if she gets little to no face to face time with him.

You need to know what her ENs really are so that you can meet them and then establish a plan and a method to go about doing just that. Those are the things that caused her to fall in love with you to begin with and those are the same things that will cause her to do so all over again.

After three months you should know what OM likes to eat, when he goes to lunch and what kind of aftershave he uses. Not being critical, but pointing out that YOU have much work to do and you need to be about doing it so that you can save your marriage.

Continue to ask for NC and let her know that if the marriage ends, you will NOT be friends. If she ends the relationship with you for OM then YOU will be gone from her life forever and for good.

Focus your attacks on the affair and not on her or even her actions. Set clear boundaries for yourself and don't let her manipulate you into agreeing to let her destroy the marriage on her terms.

Give her NO help, assistance or encouragement to move out. Causing her to leave and GO to be with OM changes the dynamic to a point where you will probably end up in Plan D before the end of the year. Your goal is NOT to get her to buy into commitment to you or leave but to get her to say, decide she is better off with YOU than with POSOM and stay to rebuild what she has helped to destroy.

Be the guy she fell in love with, avoid helping her leave you and focus your energies on pressuring the affair into being too uncomfortable to continue. If you send her away in the process she will not likely return even when the affair is over.

Back to work...

Mark

I don't mean to be rude, rather helpful, so...

You have NOT read everything here about stopping affairs and Plan A.

I know that because the NUMBER ONE rule of Plan A is to EXPOSE.

Period.

Dr. Harley himself says there is no reason to do the 'nice' part of Plan A if you have not exposed and shown all the people the two affair partners care about how sleazy and immoral they are being.

He says that Plan A without exposing to all the important people (PARENTS are #1 on that list, ALWAYS!) is a waste of time because you are GIVING THEM PERMISSION to keep rubbing your nose in their mess.

You are not calling her parents because you are afraid for YOU! You don't want them to yell at you. You don't want HER to yell at you.

So you would rather throw your marriage away just so you don't get yelled at?

Must not be much of a marriage...

Call her parents today!

Today we are going to take a break. WW is heading off to the beach with her family. She had told me early last week when I threw down the gauntlet that she was going to give us a break. I feel like at this moment I live in a whirlwind. I still know the focus must be on Plan A. I asked her last night to look at and fill out the EN questionaire. We had done that once before and have misplaced them. I am struggling with the meeting needs in Plan A and yet being at the mercy or her selfishness. At times it hits me like a 2X4 and I wonder if I can do this? It's not that I don't love my wife and want this plague gone and work on my marriage, it is generally that I feel overwhelmed and emotionless at this point. She will be gone for a week and I plan to do some things for me and see if I can find some clarity. I am hoping that it will help energize me.

Last night we talked a bit and she was in her "trying to convince me that OM is just a friend mode". I told her that I would like to get the three of us together and help me understand the situation. She agreed, but then who can believe anything she says? Not sure if that is a good idea or not, assuming that when she gets back she will follow through with it? Another option would be for me to contact him and ask the same? I have spoke once with him after DDay for 1/2 hour or so. Did not get anywhere and obviously don't trust him. Same story... don't want your wife we are just friends.

Just struggling through the day and thinking what the week will bring. I know she is on the fence and wants to keep everything the way it is. More and more I think about D since I could get all this pain to stop.

rosecroix

Sorry RoseC you are just fooling yourself here

Your WW and OM will happily tell you SINCERELY... HONESTLY ... with great CONVICTION that they have never done anything BAD together and that they are ONLY friends.

I mean what do you expect them to say... "NO we are more than friends we like shagging each other?????"

If they have not done this yet I would be surprised due to the length of the affair. Possible but not likely, but it does not matter because its definitely a EA regardless of any PA, it an affair ... that's what is it.
If it was not your wife would have given the friendship up long ago knowing how you felt about it.

She does not care that you object because her attention is elsewhere and you never carry out what you state are the consequences. For your WW it is easy to ignore your pain and hurt ... sorry that's what WS do

By all means keep on living like this... its not my life or for that matter anyone but yours. However you deserve a lot better.

I suggest you bite the bullet and get in touch with Steve Harley or whoever is available from this site and see if you can get and keep to a plan developed for you.
If you indeed want out then THAT is your best chance.... will it cost?? YES ... but far cheaper than a divorce.... and you can always divorce if it comes to that.

If you can monitor the phone calls she makes while away I bet you OM is rung over and over.. if she does not go and meet him.

Contact the Harley's.... get a plan ... use it .... its your best chance.

Yeah, I had that same talk with my OM. I heard exactly the same thing. Didn't stop him from banging EXWW for another few months. Any MAN would NOT remain the source of a couples problems. If ALL he's intersted in is friendship, as a MAN, he would gladly walk away. Even before I went through this mess I would have NEVER been the cause of anybody's marital problems.

Come on RC...meeting with the two of them is a terrible idea. This OM is hurting your M, killing it and you want to all get together....WHY?

OPs lie. WSs lie. All you'll get out of this is a big pile of manure.

Stick with your plan. This A MUST end.

RC,

Just more proof that they're not "just friends." WW is trying to negotiate keeping OM in the loop, allowing him to share in your marriage. She'll go to any lengths to keep OM.

If you put no pressure on her she would probably give little thought to leaving you till she and OM had their plans all figured out. It would remove the need to decide what to do since then she would be able to keep you and not fear that OM might not work out for her. But by calling her on this, you are forcing to make a decision and she doesn't want to give up OM.

But she doesn't want to give you up either...

Unless of course she can get you to dump her and be the bad guy, then she could say she tried but it just didn't work out with you.

How will you make staying married to you a better option for her than running off to try with OM? (who is really only a fantasy since they don't have to try to have a real life together)

What is your strategy for winning her back from the brink of leaving for something that isn't real?

What is your PLAN?

None of this is unique. She is a typical WW having a typical A.

Mark

RC,
Go ahead and call the guy up and ask to meet him at his house. See if he will agree to this. You know approximately where he lives, but you don't know his address. Do you know where he works? Do you know his REAL NAME? I think you are being gaslighted big time. You cannot find any information on him and you say he has a common name.

I am not sure that you know anything about this guy. If you know his place of employment, call up there and ask for him (or at least the name your wife gave you.)

I still say you are not in plan A because you do not know much of anything about this guy and what you do know, it sounds like you got out of your WW's mouth. I doubt she has given you truthful information. None of this feels right to me. I think the A continues and that it is likely that they are meeting up over this next week.

Give him a call and offer to meet up with him at his house. Call his place of employment and ask for "him" or at least the name you have for him.

I wish you the very best and am just afraid that you are getting a lot of lies.

I do know his name for certain. His name is not John Smith, but I get 5 or 6 OM's name when I do a search. I know where he works for certain. I know his cell. I don't know a lot of details like exactly how old he is etc. WW has been sparse about those details. I don't really believe that she will agree to meet with him. I am going ask when she gets back.

Someone asked can I check calls? That is how I found out about him. Our cell carrier shows all calls and txts. I have access to it. It is in my name and I pay the bill so she doesn't want to mess with that.

She printed out and took the EN questionaire with her. She is gaslighting no doubt. I hope she fills it out and is willing to share with me. I will do the same. That cannot hurt.

I really do believe she is with the in laws. Do I believe she might try to meet him sure. I can believe anything out of her right now. She talked with my counselor yesterday. I will see him next week. be interesting to see what he has to say. Not holding any hope there... way to early for that. But interesting none the less.

Most of the time I want this work but not EVER at the expense of keeping OM in her life. I would be like a gelding. There are days (like today) that I cannot see over the noise and visualize this ever working. I realize she has conditioned me to this mind set. The crap that I have been willing to accept to keep a marriage "alive"

rosecroix

RC,
The only way I would agree with getting all 3 of you together is if a polygraph examiner showed up 5 minutes after them with you saying "Prove it". Thats tongue in cheek, since it would be a waste of money, so don't actually do that.

Now would actually be a perfect time to call your in-laws to expose and ask them to keep an eye on her activity while she is there.

How close would you say you are to going to Plan B? The longer you keep up the status quo, the more likely your wife is to think she can continue cake eating. Sooner or later, you are going to have to lay down the law with actions to back up the words.