Well when you put it that way then I think I am still willing to continue with Plan A but it is getting tougher and tougher. I need to wait things out and see how the impact of DD19's demands on WW turn out.

Cat, How do you feel about me contacting the OM? I would like to tell him that he is destroying my family, my kids hate him, my kids hate his kids, none of WW's family will ever accept him. They have no future together and that he needs to do the honorable and manly thing and leave.

WW and I got into it again yesterday. DD11 texted me and said she wanted to stay at my place with me and wouldn't tell me why and asked me to talk to her mom (WW) instead of talking to her herself. DD11 doesn't want to hurt her feelings. So I called WW and she lamblasted me for "rescuing" her and blah blah blah. I remained calm but she still tore a strip off of me. DD11 had an activity she was supposed to go to but ended up not going. WW texted me back and said DD11 is staying with her and things were fine. I was planning on stopping by her activity to see her but since she didnt go, WW suggested I stop by the house and see her.

WW texted me and basically said that she is amazed that after everything that has gone on that I still want to be near her. The previous night she called herself a "cheating wife". I am not sure if this means anything or not but she is defenitely facing feelings and emotions she has swept under the rug. She is still in constant contact with OM.

I stopped by the house and helped with homework and met another one of her EN's (Family support). We had a nice visit and did not talk about anything.

DD19 and WW are supposed to talk tonight about the letter that DD19 sent WW. DD19 has been staying with me all this week and has not wanted to talk or be near WW.

Stay tuned. Still looking for advice on me contacting OM. Anyone? Catperson?

You need to tell your D11 the truth - that her mom knowingly slept with another man while married to you. Why? Because she HAS to know that what her mom is doing is wrong. Why? Because she has a 95% chance of doing exactly the same things as her mother - in all aspects - unless someone sets her straight on the wrong ones. You owe it to D11 to tell her the truth. Plus, when OM comes to your daughter's house, she needs to know he doesn't belong there and why. Tell her tonight.

Do NOT waste your time with OM unless you think you can scare him away (legally). Personally, you don't sound like the type to be able to scare anyone (sorry), so you will probably just come across as a whiny, impotent chump. Then they can have a good laugh about you.

That said, I think you are wrong wrong wrong for not pursuing exposing to his family. He has parents? He has siblings? Cousins? THEY ALL need to know that he is breaking up a family. THEY need to look down on your wife when she goes with him and pretends to have a pretty new life together.

If you have to, hire a PI to get all the contact information for his family.

If you refuse to take this one simple step, you might as well just file the divorce papers. Because it shows you're not willing to fight for your marriage.

Thanks catperson. I am in the process of trying to track down some contact information for his family and fully intend to expose. i just might need to use the PI but trying to avoid it. As far as what I am capable of doing to scare him, you have no idea what I am capable of. I have avoided confrontation with him because I am scared of what I am capable of doing at least physically. I was a pro hockey player and am scared of very little - except at times of a crazy WW.

I fully intend to talk to DD11 now. She overheard our convsation the other night and knows most of what is going on but it is from her sisters perspective and from overhearing converstations and picking up on what is going on around here. I have to talk to her now and give her the facts and to let her know that what is going on is wrong wrong wrong. Your statistics are frightening and I beleive that WW needs to know this as well. Thank you.

Sounds good! What team did you play for? We have the Aeros here. Used to have the Howe family in our earlier incarnation; that was cool. We had a guy called Roskowski (sp?) who my H was head of his fan club, and he used to go hang out at the Howe's house after games.

It's weird about kids. I'll catch D18 relating things to her friends that I swear are verbatim from my mouth. They just pick up what we believe without realizing they're doing it. And they do the same things, too. Like if someone gives my H a gift certificate, it will expire before he thinks of using it; when I get one, it burns a hole in my pocket. And as much as my daughter loves to read, she has had a B&N gift certificate since Christmas...nope, hasn't touched it. Now she's starting to leave food wrappers around on the coffee table and couch, just like her dad. Grrr

Little things like that. They literally are a duplicate of their two parents, for good or ill. And it goes all the way down to their core beliefs. That's why I was concerned for your D11.

Oh, forgot to add that if for some reason you do decide to confront him, cover ALL your bases so he can't take you to court or charge you with anything. And you know how easy that is, these days. You can sneeze on someone and get sued for $1 million.

I spent time playing in Bakersfield and Hamilton never made it to the NHL. I am a HUGE Red Wings fan so the Howe's are legendary to me.

I think I have enough self control to not do anything stupid but will heed your advice.

My WW proclaims to be all about teaching our kids the right way in life and it seems ironic that her actions, behavior and words are teaching our two daughters that an A is ok under certain circumstances or if by someone's defenition it is not truly an A. She has recently admitted to me that it is an A but is trying to convince our DD's that it is not. I truly don't think she realizes what she is "teaching" our kids these days with this A.

I honestly feel that if I do not confront this guy then I am not truly "fighting" for my marriage. As a hockey player, a good fight is a game changer and maybe that is what this game of M needs but not in the physical sense.

WhatNext,
You're going to get different advice on contacting OM. Some say you should and some will say not a good idea. I can only tell you my experience. I contacted OW and she denied, lied and it really accomplished nothing. I didn't feel good afterwards and hated myself for giving the OP that kind of power over me. I contacted another OW from H online dating site to let her know she was involved with a married man and she threatened me. There are a lot of nutty people out there. I agree with Cat on exposure. You have to expose to help you push the NC. Your WW is still in contact with OM. That is going to make if very difficult to have a successful Plan A.

GG

Plan A is failing miserably. The A is exposed and this has actually improved the situation for WW. Everyone knows so no need to hide the A any longer. She has convinced DD19 and DD11 that there was nothing happening until after we seperated and now that she is happy with the OM and so they should be happy for her. We were having trouble for so long so she deserves some happiness is her justification for all of this. The kids still hate him but this does not matter to her. Same thing with her family and friends, in her mind everyone else who does not agree with her relationship with this guy, then it is their problem for not wanting her to be happy.

I have given up on Plan A and need to really decide if I even want this M back. Right now I don't think I do. I am going to think about things for a day or two and then decide how to proceed.

I am also going to see a counselor tomorrow because I am having a very hard time dealing with this and am having some thoughts that I do not want to keep having.

Thanks everyone for their help and support but it appears that an A has successfully killed this M for good.

Update and in need of advice. After a pretty crazy last couple of days, WW and I had scheduled time to talk about some things tonight. I was really not sure what we were going to talk about. I was completely ready to start Plan B and have been drafting my Plan B letter. We talked and she felt very hurt by what I had done about "bringing other people" into our problems. Basically it was all about my exposing the affair to friends and family. I crossed a line, etc. However, she told me tonight that she is no longer seeing OM and it had nothing to do with DD19's ultimatum or pressure from me or others. She didn't elaborate but it doesn't really matter. Although I do know that they are still in communication and so I am not too sure if it is really over or if it is just deeper in hiding. Time will tell. She did mention that she is not in a place yet where she can think about us as she is not ready yet. We did talk about what a relationship between us might look like and we both want the same things, it's just a matter of getting there. After our talk, we did take DD11 out for dinner and had a really nice time. We were not completely finished our talk so are going to pick it up tomorrow morning. I think she was sincere and trusthful when she said that A with OM is over but again I am not completely buying it until proof exists. I still have access to cell phone records so can follow communication. I can tell that communication is significantly reduced.

So I think Plan A is working, A is exposed, WW has broke it off but communication still exists between WW and OM so still not clear on that. I just need some advice on how to proceed from here. We are going to talk in the morning and we are going to see DD19 on Wednesday as she has an activity planned with her sorority and we are going to watch together.


I think I am going to continue with Plan A for a while longer, it just might be working after all. I guess I haven't given up just yet.

If your WW is still driven to choose to communicate with the OM, knowing how much knowledge of that communication can and will hurt you and therefore the M, then the A is continuing.

I used a similar argument with my FWW when I caught her IM'g with the OM some time after DD. She decided then that any sort of non-business communication with the OM had to end immediately. It took her a bit longer though to leave the job, but all contact did cease after that.

I agree and that is the next step. Right now any discussion on the OM is seen as DJ by WW so I am treading this lightly right now. She just told me last night that it was over so I need to let a little time pass before I can believe that and monitor the communication. We are going to talk this morning some more so hopefully I will get a little more out of her and can start establishing some boundaries.

Remind me, is she close to her parents? Siblings? If so, you still need to be talking to them about what happened. Not as vengeance, but as their grandkids'/nieces' father who is being left out in the cold while she sows her oats. Plan A, but continue to not make this easy for her.

She is close to her mom and sister but they live 1800 miles away. I really think that her intentions at this point is that the A is over. She does not show remorse as she still doesn't feel that she did anything wrong and I am already seeing signs of withdrawal. I have reached out to her sister and will her mom soon. THis is all kind of happening fast. WW told me today that she has lots of things to try and figure out and does not want to be forced back into a relationship with me as it should happen naturally. She said that she has a lot of things to get over. Basically what she means is all the things that I did/didn't do to her that made her feel like she had to go elsewhere to get her needs met. I asked her if she would be willing to let me meet some of her needs now and if she would help me identify what those needs are again. She said she is not ready. She is hurting over things. I know she knows what she has done is wrong and how / why things ended with A is unknown and she did say it was really over but again time will tell. She is in the withdrawal stage and can't think about her and I right now.
She offered me a D to help me move on. She is trying to "set me free" because other people in her life (family and friends) are telling her that if she plans to see other people and do things that W should not be doing then she needs to get D'd first. She told me she would get the papers drawn up and if I chose to sign them then that was my choice but to appease everyone else she feels she needs to do this.

I am going to stay the course with Plan A. So far their has been no communication with OM. She needs to figure things out right now. Plan A is working I just need to stay the course. Advice is appreciated on what I can do to help her get through the withdrawal and seeing a future with me. She has told me some thingst that she does not want from me so i need to learn from those and keep picking up on these things.

Ok, this is my interpretation of what your WW has said above, because in many ways it resembles the "Tangled-Speak" that I've had to put up with at times. I think that she's interested in seeing other people, and perhaps even trying to rekindle her relationship with the OM, and she sees her M to you as a hindrance to that. She also seems to be more interested in what other people think of her rather than what she thinks of herself, hence the mention of undertaking the divorce for "appeasement".

Yes, she may be in withdrawal, but it's also possible that what you may be seeing here is what your WW is really like, with the camouflage removed.

You may want to dig a bit more and find out how the A actually ended. I'm going to guess that it was ended by the OM.



...then the A was either definitely ended by the OM, or he wasn't all that interested in the first place.



I don't think that there's anything you can do to help her through withdrawal, if that is actually what she is currently experiencing. As for seeing a future with you, do you know what she fell in love with you and chose to be M'd to you? Do you know if her more important ENs have changed since then? I would suggest dropping all R-talk and try to meet those important ENs of hers, without having to be prompted by her to do so.

I believe the A was ended due to all the tension being caused by the exposure and pressure being made on the two of them by DD19, friends and family. The stress of it all and then the fact that WW was unable to see him very often. I think after things were truly exposed and OM realized that kids, friends and family were not supportive of A and really didn't like him then that was not appealing to him. All WW said was that her feelings were hurt and she doesn't want to go into it right now. The one thing that brought them together was the fact that he made no judgments on her and had no expectations. I think lately he may have been make judgments on her and/or expectations that she was not meeting. Therefore, he looked less attractive to her and she felt hurt by him because he showed his true color once the relationship was tested. This is my guess and from what i can gather from reading between the lines.

We are not doing any relationship talk at this point, we just had to clear a few things up and she needed to discuss some things with me on the exposure, her hurt and how confused she is right now. You could be right and that she is looking to see other people as she figures out what she wants. I am still committed to my Plan A.