Hi BB

Hope you don't mind me dropping in.

Your wife is wonderful!!!

I Like TST's post


Both of you are keen and on board. This will work for that empathy - I can use it at work and in other areas. (going at it with renewed direction myself for my M, thanks to Sere)

ST

Hi sexymamabear, thanks for your post.

Point taken about IB. I am just so determined not to exhibit IB it can sometimes be a hinderance and can make me "stutter" into taking the lead.

Also, taking the lead is not something that comes naturally to me so I have to be continuously awake to when it is required rather than instinctively knowing.

Hopefully Love Busters (after I finish HNHN) will help.

Hi tst, thanks for your post.

Will take your advice and read Love Busters after HNHN. Hopefully I'll naturally pick up a bit of empathy awareness for my "bucket" as I go along!!

BB

Hi ST, nice to hear from you. Welcome to pop in anytime.

Glad that you are taking heart from sere's posts to you - she is pretty good at this MB stuff.

Thanks for your support.

BB

Just a quick update.

Had our 7th anniversary on Monday and it went really well. Stayed over in Manchester, took in a show (although Sere did let herself down in the 2nd part of the performance - I'll let her reveal all if she wants to !!!) , had some food and quality time together. One thing we've always been good with is being in each others company. We've always been able to natter and chat and never really struggle for topics of discussion. That's exactly how we met and it's still as easy as ever.

I am experiencing a somewhat new emotion. I would be grateful for some insight from anyone who may have been in the same position.

As a wayward I carry a tremendous amount of shame and guilt for what I did to my DW and family. However, the further away (in time) we get away from the events of last year I am starting to feel more of a sense of severe disappointment within myself which seems different to my shame/guilt.

Whether or not it is these emotions changing as time goes by I'm not sure but I feel like I want to square up to myself and punch myself for what I allowed happened.

When I sometimes recall the events of last year I have always felt very sad and sorry about it. Now I feel more angry and I can feel it getting greater and greater. I want to dive in my memories and give myself a good kicking!!

I just can't believe what I did. I guess it's a sense of realism and the fact that something I did will never go away entirely but I also feel that it was just so so avoidable.

SAA & HNHN prove that. And I feel it too. If only I'd have read a fraction of those books 12 months ago I'm sure that I would not have jepodised my DW, life and family for absolutely nothing.

It's so damn frustrating!!

Congratulations!

when angry with myself I try to resist the temptation of smacking my head against a wall and do some serious exercise. The other thing of course is to talk about how angry you are. Or you could try some visual techniques - draw a volcano errupting and write all the words that you feel in the lava...

and then remind yourself of how hard you are trying to put things right and do some lovely things for Sere. Keep looking forward remembering the lessons you have learned.

CONGRATULATIONS TO BOTH OF YOU

This is a process that takes time.

Are you struggling with accepting forgiveness from your DW? From others? From God?

Or is this different?

Maybe struggling with what you can never get back, like your fidelity? Grieving that loss?

BB, do you and your DW attend church?

Are you sharing these emotions with your BS, or are you keeping them to yourself to avoid "rocking the boat"? Does your BS know about those feelings?

Hi ST, nice to hear from you. Hope you're okay.

Thanks for the advice. Will ponder but feel that talking to Sere about it is probably the best way forward.

I am trying really hard for her and us and will continue to do so.

Hi tst,

I feel that I'm greiving the loss of the unrecoverable, the fidelity, the blind trust and the fact that I allowed such a terrible event to occur within the lives of everyone within the family.

I had everything I ever wanted and needed. It was always right in front of my nose. All I had to do was open my eyes, communicate and be honest. That's it. Two of the most simple and basic attributes that people usually have and I failed miserably on both counts.

That would have given us the basic building blocks to deal with the problems within our M.

I am angry with myself for not doing what was seemingly obvious and clear. I mention in an earlier post that my DW and I have no problem chatting and talking but, in respect of the way I was feeling last year, I ran from it. Like I said, very very frustrating to come to terms with that.

I think a lot of these feeling of inner anger are all to do with retrospect. How easy it would have been avoid the events of last year by just being a more wholesome and open person.

The choices I took disgust me and I hate the fact that I took such ugly and selfish decisions that have impacted on those that I pupported to love above all else. The total lack of disregard for them astounds me. I just hate what I did.

I think I'm suffering from the "if only.... if only.... if only......" syndrome that hits you right between the eyes when you read SAA & HNHN.

WIth regards to church, religion has never formed a significant part of mine or DW's life, so, no we do not attend.

Hi MiM, thanks for your post.

These new feelings only started recently but I have spoken with my DW about them but not in any great detail. Importantly she is aware of them.

I thought I would mention it and then just see how it develops over the next few weeks as they are still in their infancy.

I will broach the subject with her again, but let me be clear, the last thing I am going to do is avoid so not "to rock the boat".

It was that attitude that partially got me to this point in the first place.

Hi everyone, starting to use this post for journalling my thoughts and feelings etc.

Had a great weekend with DW, family and friends. All went to the football together, had a few drinks, a lot of laughs, saw my mum and brother. It was good.

Woke up this morning.......SAD!!

Both Sere and I are in a good place at the moment and I'm enjoying every minute of it, possibly too much and that might be why I'm feeling a bit down.

I know at some point soon, as we get close to the year anniversary of "IT" starting and D-Day, there will be a down-turn and tough times will return.

It is enevitable and I spoke about how I felt with DW this morning and she agrees that a "enjoy it while you can" sort of attitude prevails at the moment.

Sere is very open about her feelings and it is something I am learning from her in terms of how I relate within our M. I do approach her so much more these days about how I feel even if they are negative/down. In the past I would have "avoided" such discussions as I wouldn't want to pass "it" on. But, if you've read all of this post, you will understand that it was this very character flaw that contributed to my problems originally.

I need to prepare us for the down-turn and would appreciate advice from anyone that has lived through the build up to the first anniversary. I want to be ready to tackle it for both of us to make this difficult time as smooth as possible. At the same time I want to learn from living through it and ensure that I take those principles forward for other times when Sere or I have difficult times.

Another feeling I have at the moment relates to the the MB techniques I have introduced into my life and what effect they are having upon me.

I have started to feel better in some ways and worse in others. For example, Sere and I used POJA last night regarding a potential visit to see my parents on Wednesday. Whilst there is merit for such a visit there were also hurdles to overcome and we decided together that this week is not the right time.

We came to this conclusion together. I understand her viewpoint, she understands mine and together we have come to a decisions that suits US best. I was very happy with how we dealt with this and look forward to the next time.

But, as I use Dr. H's principles, I have can't help and look at the way I behaved a year ago and the inner-disgust I have for myself is on the rise, I can feel it.

In some respects re-living the events are like watching somebody else because the actions and decisions are so far removed from where I feel I am now. But, of course, it was me and the further I develop and evolve away from that person the more abhorent my actions become to me. It makes me so angry.

I think this ties in with the feeling sad this morning. Having tasted what was nearly a perfect weekend and then comparing myself from a year ago and what I put on the line for my own self-indulgent selfish needs makes me feel sick.

I know at some point that I am just going to have to let go. Can't change the past only the present and future, but, WOW, this self-loathing stuff is pretty powerful. Need to work on it but don't feel close to forgiving myself yet.

Finally, to Sere (who will undoubtably read this), love you hon, thanks for the weekend and be assured that there is nothing that we can't overcome together. I would move heaven and earth to keep us all together xxx

Sorry but as a BS, that is probably the most offensive thing I have read in years. I don't usually post to you any more because I'm not a fan but that is truly audacious.

Thanks for posting. I am sorry that you feel that way.

What I did to my DW was offensive
What I did to my family was offensive
What I did to my M was offensive

I am here to learn. About myself then and now. To understand how and why I did such a dispicable thing. By learning and understanding I can evolve into the best husband I can possibly be, the best father I can possibly be and the best person I can possibly be.

Let me clarify my point. It is offensive that you claim to grieve the loss of anything. You didn't lose fidelity - your BW lost fidelity. You stole it from her. You freely gave fidelity away to a hot skirt.

The fact that you now portray yourself as a victim of anything is beyond credible and is at the core of why I can't be a fan of yours. Everything is still all about you (the Taker). I noticed this when you started the thread and nothing has yet changed.

I take your point regarding fidelity and agree with you. In retrospect that probably wasn't thought out as well as it could have been.

I am not trying to portray myself as a victim. Perhaps my writing style suggests so but I don't intend to come across that way.

I think that it would be a good idea for me to re-read the entire thread to see if I come across in this manner and see whether I need to articulate myself differently.

All I can say is that I use this MB board to improve myself as a person to which my DW and family will all benefit. My DW decided to fight for our M when all her instincts were telling her otherwise so, at the very least, I have to show her that I am as invested as her in our M and address the issues that put our M in jepoardy.

Those issues were mine so, to some degree, it has to be about me. I took. But I want to give. Give my all to my M, DW & family. IMO, to be able to give as much as humanly possible I have to understand as much about myself as possible. Then I can give my true ALL.

I hate to say it, but I agree with piojitos on this count. Your using the "WW acting as an alien" as an excuse for yourself. It is only advise for the BS to cope, not for you to dodge your actions.

You consumed the trust and love of your marriage in selfish actions. The only regret you should harbor is that there is a part of you that can do this to people, now and again in the future. What will you do to stomp on it so that it withers and dies without a future?

Flat out. YOU DO NOT DESERVE TO FORGIVE YOURSELF! It is not something that you do for yourself. That's self justification, I'm sure you did enough of that before, stop doing it now!

If your spouse forgives you, you should never forgive yourself! A humble person never feels vindicated when they hurt another. As I told my coworker today, an affair feels no different than murder...than being stabbed in the back and dragged across the ground by it in some parody of a comedy with your face in the ground and your feet up in the air.

It feels like opening your front door to greet the person you love most in the world, having them point a gun at your face and them saying,"You don't deserve this but oh well I want this," BOOM!"

You may be trying to understand yourself but in my eyes I only see someone trying to seek redemption but telling themselves they've now redeemed themselves.

Like Angel the series by Joss Whedon, Angel saves the world over and over but it to him doesn't pay back the hundreds and thousands of lives he murdered as a soulless vampire. He can only keep brooding and suffering because even if he saves more lives than he murdered nothing erases what he did...even if he believes it wasn't his fault to begin with.

It is one thing to practice MB methods to better your marriage, it is another to claim that because you are using them your past actions are...dismissed.

I hope I'm not being too harsh...I'm 30 days to divorce from my WS and it's killing me. And half of this is me venting and another half is serious perspective.

But you are portraying yourself as the victim. Your writing style betrays you. It gives clues to what you are really thinking. It allows others to see things you can't.

Use MB to try to improve. I think you need it more than you believe you do. The fact that your BW has chosen to try to fight for your M is the only dog I have in this fight - otherwise I wouldn't read your posts. She is interesting to me because I believe she is sincere.

I feel like you are still in damage control mode. You're fighting to not get booted out of the M. Fair enough. You have to prioritize. But I see you as a guy who could just as easily fall off the wagon given the right opportunity.

And don't discount what Monc said. He may be facing divorce but he is pretty much on point. I got lost with that Angel thing but, other than that, it is insightful.

I have to respect the opinion you have formed and it is for me to reflect on what and how I have posted that has led you to that.

Without trying to play any more of the "victim", I must admit to being quite upset at your reaction to me. I am a wayward who deserves little or nothing from anyone. I appreciate your honesty with me and has given me plenty of food for thought.

All I can say is that I am here. I'm fighting for and trying to save my M. Why, because I love my DW and I am so sorry for the pain, hurt and suffering that she has had from my hands.

I am here to learn and take advice. To take heed from other people that have done what I have done and come through the other side with a happy and fulfilling M. I want to give our M the best possible chance of surviving and I think by using MB and Dr. Harley's techniques will give us the best possible opportunity.

I know you doubt my sincerity (naturally, I'm a wayward) but you won't see me abandoning this thread, I'm here for keeps. For recovery, after (hopefully) recovery to continually strive for more and better within our M and to never let the lessons and principles I have learned from ever leaving our M.

Who knows, maybe one day, I may even be able to change your opinion of me and my determination for recovery