Thanks, L4. I need to get caught up with your thread, too. I saw you're feeling low today...

I think it's pretty much over, too.


This is true and I think I need to focus on this. My IC had pushed me out to seeing her only once a month and has, since my last appointment, brought me back to every two weeks. Still lots of work to be done on me.


Good analogy...


It's not so much that I don't want to hear it. I need to face the facts, too, painful as they may be.


Yes, absolutely. This is a must.


It feels as though my H is the one floating along waiting for a sign from somewhere. Or perhaps he's just getting his ducks in a row.


Yeppers.


I like most of the principals here and will continue to read and learn. The opinions of everyone here are so valuable...


I certainly am lonely. My friends are good about meeting my top EN (conversation) but the admiration and affection are something that a woman isn't likely to get from her girl friends. I have made awful mistakes and I can't make him want to work on our M. Perhaps it just really wasn't that good to being with. I'm going back to the start with my IC because the work has to begin there.


Yes...


Absolutely, yes. I've only been surrounding myself with women for quite some time. Not only because I know that I'm vulnerable but also because I can let myself cry if I need to.


Berra?


It's such a huge decision. It's really, really looking that way. I'm not hoping for an "a-HA!" moment but I'm not at the point to just pull the plug, either.

Thank you, Mark. Thank you, thank you.

Nearly two years in six is big, that's true.

It hasn't been his birthday yet. A couple more weeks. He's a Gemini.

Yep.

Then do you want to keep fighting?

Is he willing to go out to dinner or something like that with you? Does he respond to you at all? Was he distant before the affair? Before your confession?

I think the best thing you could do right now is to concentrate on fixing yourself. Show him that to be the case, that you are really becoming a different person than who he thinks you are. He might not care any more, Roo, and that will give you very little chance of recovery.

Has he ever said he wants a divorce or that he is filing for one?

Mark

I'm a gemini too. What are you?

GG

I am a Taurus.

I like horoscopes for fun. Have you checked out compatibility for Gemini and Taurus...see below



I was curious - Does it describe you and your BS?

Gg

The "constant change" doesn't describe my H, no. Much of the other stuff is correct though, especially the part about Geminis being mischevious. My H enjoys being a "pot stirrer" with others. He's been known to say or do things to "see what will happen" or to cause trouble. He doesn't mean it in a malicious way, I don't think, but he is a self-proclaimed pot-stirrer.

As for me, I am a very serious person. I understand sarcasm but don't enjoy it at all. Not only is it a poor excuse for wit but those I know who use it often are generally WANTING to be mean. I have a girl friend whose H is AWFUL to some of our friends, but because they are so naive or dim-witted, they don't get it. That sort of thing is NOT becoming to me.

My H and I had lots of clashes when I felt he was being mean to me and he would say he was simply giving me a hard time. He said after D-Day that that has always been something that bothered him - that I don't see that he's making a joke, that I take things too personally. Well, when you look at your wife and tell her, "I don't tell you when you look pretty because I don't want you to get used to it," I'm not sure if that would be taken another way. : shrug:

Roo,

Based solely on what you said in your response to my post above I think your marriage is very salvageable.

Getting together to let him talk about his day, his life and his activities is EXACTLY what you need to do. You can't solve the problems around the affair until he is willing to work on the solution. But is you make time with you enjoyable and upbeat he might be willing to begin spending more time with you. That would give you more time to meet his ENs and THAT would begin to fill his Love Bank back up.

Just spend time together like you did before you got married. You can't fix the relationship in one sitting anyway and dealing with the hard stuff will drain both your LB$ very rapidly. Don't try to talk about the affair or the state of the relationship at all for about 3 months, just try to enjoy time together and see if things don't begin to change for the better.

Mark

Mark,

Why on earth would her BH want to come back after two years? It seems from the above that he has moved on. I think it is wrong for her to attempt to draw him back in when she had an A, and left him.

Six,

I see that he is trying to move on, has wondered what happened for a couple of years and in the last two months found out that it wasn't him after all but Roo that was the problem. (Not attacking you Roo, just stating the fact that the affair is what caused the real problem now being faced)

[BTW, since we are talking about two years or so... Can anybody relate this to the statistics on affairs and their longevity?]

Still married officially, right?
He is willing to spend some time with her though he has built a life of his own without her.
Is often open to little acts of love from her.
Can sometimes reciprocate in small ways.

He might be trying to move on, but hasn't yet.

Is it worth trying to save? THAT is the 64 thousand dollar question. I can't answer that and neither can anyone else on these forums. Roo must decide if she is going to invest what it will take to accomplish that and determine if it is in fact worth the investment, which will be huge on her part and at least as big on his. If she wants to give it a shot only doing all she can to make it her best shot will give either of them peace in the future.

While the pain might lessen with time by both just walking away and letting it die, the anguish will remain right below the surface for a long time to come, perhaps for the rest of their lives. The thought that maybe they could have saved the relationship in some way will haunt anyone who gives up anyway and to give up because someone else said it was hopeless will give nothing in the way of peaceful resolution.

And that is what must be sought here, a resolution to the problem at hand and not just the finding of the path of least resistance.

JMO.

Roo, if you're done, then I'm down with that. If you want to fight, then fight on. If you need a break to decide, then take a break.

The probability of winning should not be the only factor used to determine if playing the game is what you want. David didn't care about odds and Goliath didn't care about possible consequences since he was undefeated.

Mark

Mark & Roo,

The problem that I see here as I've followed along with Roo is that her BH is not 'invested' in the marriage. Certainly not now (which is totally understandable after her affair) but I don't believe he ever was. Based on Roo's description of the marriage and his demeanor/personality I don't have much confidence that he will ever invest in any relationship in the way that Roo is looking for and needs. Saving a marriage after infidelity is extremely tough work on both sides (BS and WS). If the BS is not willing to re-engage or in this case was never engaged and probably never will be then what is the point in Roo banging her head on the proverbial brick wall.

If I'm wrong about your H (or BH) Roo then please feel free to correct me. Not all people are able to invest themselves into a relationship in the way that Roo wants. I think that Roo has a pretty clear idea of what she wants her ideal marriage to look like and I'm just not convinced that it will ever happen with her BH. Could it be possible? Of course, anything is possible but it just seems like there is such a mountain to climb and even if Roo is putting on her gear to make the climb BH hasn't even located the mountain and may never.

Mindshare

Mindshare,

I agree with you for the most part. My supposition is that if Roo wants to try, she needs to give it everything she has and hold nothing back. Leave it all on the field, so to speak. She doesn't need to find a consensus; she needs to make a decision.

If she wants to try to win him back, then all of her efforts need to go into that and all that it entails. She needs to identify what he wants form a relationship (not just from her) and pursue it full speed ahead. She needs to fix herself so that she can contribute to some sort of recovery effort if he agrees and she needs to be strong enough to be able to continue long enough to get the job done in the face of uncertainty.

If she wants to move on and forget the mistakes of the past, heal on her own and then eventually perhaps find a relationship that might be all the she desires from one, then THAT needs to be her focus. It doesn't strike me that she is strong enough herself to float like flotsam being tossed about by the waves waiting for him to make up his mind what he wants to do and tell her.

He isn't invested and probably never was. While that might be true, the decision still needs to be made because giving up and regretting it later will haunt her forever. It has to be a decision or an end of the road situation for either of them to move on. Do all you can and then stop. Doing any of it half way means success is impossible and a waste of time and effort.

But since Roo is the one here and considering her options, she is the one who gets to decide if trying is still an option.

Mark

Mark,

I agree with what you are saying. That's why I've been recommending to Roo for weeks (maybe months) that she should go 'all in' on her relationship with BH. She should put all her cards on the table. Tell him about the kind of marriage that she dreams of and see if he shares that dream. Let him know that she is willing to do whatever it takes on her side to achieve that dream but it will also take alot of work from him. Find out if he is willing to invest himself or not. It will still take alot of time and alot of hard work to get there but you can't even get started until this type of 'all in' conversation happens between them IMVHO.

Roo seems scared to put all the chips on the table and have this type of conversation. My guess is because she thinks she already knows what his answer will be and therefore is scared to ask the question.

You gotta get out of this limbo he77 Roo!! It's just not a healthy place to be at all. And you have been there for quite a long time now. I know you are working on being a better Roo with IC and this is great...keep it up. But, at some point a decision has to be made on this marriage. End it or both of you committ to building a new and better one.

Mindshare

Thank you all for sticking around and reading and posting. Your view of the situation is helpful.

I've been studying for my last final of the semester which is today so I'll be able to reply later on tonight.

Thought I could reply last night but there's just too much to think about.

An A of nearly 2 years in a 6 year marriage... A BH that isn't invested in the M and was pretty much just riding the waves in the relationship to begin with. Lots of questions.

I'm going to do my best to take a break from MB. I really think I need it. Reading about BS that are bending over backwards to get their WS to see the light, WS doing what they can to heal the damage they've done. It's taking a toll on my heart. Feels too thin to begin with.

How the F*#^ did this become my life???

Wish you all the very, very best.

Geez, Roo.

You've expressed things I myself have said many, many times.

It's hard to be here reading all of the struggles, pain, celebrations, encouragements, judgements... It's quite a potppouri isn't it? I know I don't know where I fit in around here so I float, stumble, and bumble around from thread to thread. Some make me giggle, some piss me off, more make me cry, many make me think... And sometimes it becomes way too much -- because I don't know where my path fits among all of the cross-roads here.

In fact, I was in a self-imposed hiatus today. Just bopped in with no intensions of posting anything until saw your thread was updated and read this. (You forced me to log in, darn you!)

If you ever want to reach out offline, let the mods know I give them permission to pass my email address on to you. I'm sure there are others here who might offer the same.

You did the right thing when you told your H a few months back, Roo. Don't you ever doubt that.

And FWIW? I believe you're good people, Roo. I always have.

I'm sorry to see you step out but I understand. Please take care of yourself and do right by Roo. And if you do ever come back, know my arms will be waiting and opened wide.



-L4

Roo, Have you seen this?

The Seven Emotional Trials the Cheater Will Face from Frank Grunzburg.

Now Mark, really. What was that supposed to do? Make me hate myself more? Bring me to tears?

Mission accomplished.