I apologize for the subject. It is a little deceiving, but I cannot think of any other way of putting it.

I will start by giving a Cliff Notes version of my situation. Then I will get to the purpose of my post.

My wife moved out and filed for divorce (she moved out when I was on an overseas military trip). I had no indication that she was going to do this. We have been married for 21 years and we have two children (12 and 8). She is claiming mental/emotional abuse. She moved out almost 2.5 months ago. I have learned through therapy, reading, and other sources that our marriage suffered from the same problems that nearly every marriage in the world suffers from; poor communication. There is no physical abuse, no drug abuse, no child abuse, no adultery, nothing extreme.

The one problem with my wife is that she talked to all her friends about our problems including my mother. As many people might know, talking to other people about your marital problems does not fix anything. The other spouse is blamed for everything and therefore is considered the "bad" guy. Friends will rarely, if at all, take the other spouse's side. Here is my problem.

My wife has spent a lot of time talking to a particular friend of hers about our troubles. This friend is a very dominant, aggressive, selfish, know-it-all. I think we all know some of these people. My wife is very easily manipulated by other people. It is a flaw of hers, but no one is perfect (and I still love her). I am 100% convinced that this friend has provoked, coerced, persuaded, my wife to do what she has done. This friend did a majority of the moving with the help of her weak-minded husband. My wife's lawyer is the same lawyer her friend used in her divorce in the past. I ask that you accept my assumption as fact. I cannot spend the time necessary to prove my accusation.

Early on in the separation my wife said that she had no desire to reconcile and that she did not love me anymore. Once I finally got to speak to her in person I could tell that she was lying when she said these things (she has a body gesture that indicates her lack of honesty). Well, several weeks ago my wife and I were discussing Christmas arrangements and she all of a sudden told me some things about a church she visited and started crying. On more than one occasion she used the words,"if we get back together." She even hugged me (one of four hugs that night). I could tell that she was speaking what she felt in her heart. She said that she needed some time and I respected her decision. The next day she was wearing her engagement ring. She wore it the next few days. For a few weeks after this time we got along great. We talked like high school kids. I told my lawyer about what had happened and she recommended I suggest a Temporary Order of Reconciliation to remove the legal proceedings temporarily and allow us time to relax and think. I finally suggested this to my wife and she said she would think about it. About a week and a half ago she said that she was not going to do the Temp Order. I asked her why and she said that she is not in love with me and wants the marriage to end. She told me her friend was in her car outside. As I finished talking to my wife I looked at her friend in the car and the friend had a cold hard stare out the front. She never looked over or acknowledged my presence. I am convinced that my wife spoke to her friend about the Temp Order and her friend talked her out of it. My wife is still lying when she tells me she wants the marriage to end and that she does not love me. Last week I mentioned to my lawyer how well my wife and I are getting along. She was very surprised. She said in her years of practice she has never seen a divorcing couple get along as we do.

Okay, so where am I going with this. I need to do something about my wife's friend. I have yet to meet her friend face-to-face since this started. I have not said anything to my wife about my feelings (it certainly would not do me any good). I have not spoken with her friend. Several of the books that I have read say that when a friend has interfered with a marriage in this way that you need to "undermine" their influence. But, no where do any of these books give examples or techniques for doing this. I have no doubt that my wife and I can reconcile our marriage and be happier than we ever have. We can do it! But, as long as my wife has this "friend" supporting her it will never happen. This friend is running/ruining our life. I need suggestions. I am considering one possibility right now. I am thinking about writing to this friend and thanking her for supporting my wife during this rough time. I would also say something like, I am sure you only listened when my wife talked and never suggested she do anything in particular. I am thinking if I write a good letter, I might at least plant a seed in this friend's mind that will cause her to think about what she has done. But, there has got to be other ways of removing her from the situation so that my wife can reach her heart and not speak what she has been told to say.

Any help you can offer would be welcome.

No, you can't.

All you can do is read up on Plan A (basically, wooing your wife all over again) and do a great job of it, so YOU are the better option.

boofer...best you can do is your best...

and if you do write a letter, ask this friend to be a friend of your marriage...

how you realize how divisive having separate friends, instead of asking people to be friends of your marriage, truly is...

Your wife is choosing to follow this friend...and that wouldn't happen if your wife didn't want to do that, too, see? Not all, or nothing...part your wife and part her friend...

send the letter to the friend and her husband...

and say that having friends of The Marriage protects your wife, and your kids...your top priority is to have an intact family led by a thriving marriage...a really positive statement of your goals.

Not a bash of her (the friend).

LA

BF, I had a similar situation. All of my w's friends, family, and even counselor supported her rapid d-filing and giving me the boot.

At some point (with the help of many many MBers), I realized that I could only change myself to be a better partner to anyone. My w *might* start to change herself, and that's great, but that deal is unconnected. I've had so much help from MBers that I feel like I owe a great debt to them, so perhaps my response to you might help. And I am new at this also, so don't take anything I say too seriously.

Working on undermining your w's friends and other associates is a waste of energy and time and will usually backfire. W and friend will dig their heels in deeper. If your w recognizes the changes in you, she herself will start to convince those supportive associates, instead of you, that the marriage might be worth saving.

Read the section in Michele Weiner's The Not So Great Escape article online that talks about how one's d support team wants to see one's pain end (for their own internal reasons) and hence will facilitate divorce without thinking that it may cause substantially more future pain. If you can get your w to read that, great, but she may not be receptive to that article right now.

You might tell your w that you understand why she would want to divorce you (do this when you really do understand) and why her friends would be supportive of that (as in the Weiner article). You might say something like "It makes sense why friend X would be supportive of you leaving me, given how I've behaved..." Then you might ask something like "I wonder what changes you and X would need to see to believe that the marriage is worth saving?" The latter might give you an idea of what you need to do, not just for her, but for yourself. Good feedback for your life in general. In general, you might explicitly enlist friend X for help indirectly through your w. "I can see where your friend X is intelligent...do you think she might give me some pointers on how I could improve myself for any future relationship?"

Whatever you do, don't argue with friend X's opinions. They are right for what he/she knows of the situation ONLY from your w's point of view.

I understand all of what has been said. Let me attempt to clarify a few things.

First of all, my wife and I reached a point where we could not communicate effectively. Her complaint of mental abuse is without any merit. We both did the same things to each other and I could have easily of filed for divorce for the same reasons. But, I do not want to get into the details of the actual divorce.

I have made changes in my life. About a month and a half ago I renewed my relationship with God and He removed over a decade of stress from me (work, numerous deaths in the family, etc). It was truly a miracle. I am very happy. I understand that I cannot change anyone else but myself and that is what I am concentrating on. I have read several sources that make the same recommendations. But, most of these articles or books assume that a couple is still living together and one spouse will notice changes in the other. Unfortunately, since my wife moved out. I rarely see her and she cannot notice the changes as easily as if we were living together.

When I used the word "undermine" I should have elaborated. I need to convince this friend that I am worth a second chance and work her over to my side. This is where I need the help. I never see her. The only way that I can contact her is by writing to her. I do not think a phone call would be advisable. She and I never had any conflicts before this situation and, as for now, she is not aware that I know of her involvement. So, the angle I would use in any correspondence would be that I value her as a friend to my wife. I would choose my words wisely and attempt to plant a seed in her to get her to think about me and her involvement in my marriage. But, my question to the forum is what else can I do? There has got to be something other than a letter which would have to be perfectly written to get her on my side.

I cannot use these "reverse psychological" suggestions due to my faith. I cannot lie and tell my wife that I am okay with her decision. I know that God wants us to reconcile. I have placed the matter completely in his hands. But, this friend needs to repent what she has done to my marriage. And as long as she thinks what she is doing is right, she cannot repent. I just want to help.

I am seeing a Christian therapist. I am going to ask for her advice on this subject next week. But, I want to check all sources before I make any decisions.

By the way, what is MB?

Everhopefulguy,

I just read that article and it is right on the money. But, I cannot send this to my wife because it will put both her and her friend on the defensive. My Mom said that my wife would frequently vent to her about our troubles. My Mom said that she often advised my wife not to talk about our problems with other people for the same reason the article states. I wonder if I printed this article and had my Mom (if she agreed) send it to my wife would work. If she receives it from my Mom my wife would be less likely to get defensive. Only problem is my Mom does not browse the internet and explaining how she came about this article might be hard for her to explain.

Any thoughts?

MB= Marriage Builders.

Sadly, I don't think there's anything you can do about the friend. Unless and until your wife realizes that a true friend would NOT advise that you blow up your life, she'll probably keep the company of this toxic individual. I've seen this dynamic play out recently in my life (thankfully, not my marriage, but someone else's) and the blower-upper STILL doesn't see the toxic nature of that 'friendship', and the way this person uses her. I have a feeling, though, that it's coming...and it's going to be a horribly ugly realization.

Good luck, I like the idea to simply Plan A your wife. Be the person who truly wants what's best for her.

How do you feel about posting this situation on the SAA board? To me, toxic friendships like this resemble EAs, and I'm not sure how they should be dealt with.

To me, a meeting with the husband and wife seem appropriate so that they can see you as a live, honorable person trying to work on his marriage, but I'm not certain it's what Dr. H would advise.

I would be very curious what's advised because I've seen this scenario pop up on the boards over and over again.

Yes, I thought you'd like that article. I have not given it to my w or her supporters because they are simply not receptive to it right now. Sounds like your w and her associate will also not be receptive. The important point is that you realize that friends and relatives who get a one-sided view will be very supportive of a d (for the reasons Weiner explains) and it is simply a psychological fact.

I know that if my w and her parents would have read that article months ago they would NOT have seen themselves as the people Weiner described. They would have seen themselves as completely logical, rational, having ALL of the facts in front of them, and having logically and rationally concluded that a d is the best thing in the world. They truly believed that w's feelings were more important than the three lives that are involved in our family. They viewed themselves as protectors of w's emotions, which they must do at all costs. No one wants to believe they are acting in the worst interests of the person they are supporting.

Even now, I believe w would not see herself or her parents in that article. We create our own realities and deny all the rest.

But their [the d-supporters] thinking can be changed from the inside out, not outside in.

You don't need to say you agree with your w's need for d. You can say you understand why she would do what she is doing and that you would prefer to work on the marriage. You can also ask w's friend what she would have done differently--ask her for real advice. You can say you are looking for advice from someone outside of the marriage, from someone who has perspective. What changes would her friend need to see in you that would make her believe that the marriage is worth saving? Your w?

So, in summary, I would not send the article just right now through direct or indirect channels. You can mention the key points to w: that you understand why friend X would be so supportive if all she gets is the negative views. Makes sense. But that doesn't help you solve your marital problems anyway--it just helps your w and you understand how people could be supportive of something so destructive. To understand how people could support such destruction can help you keep your cool and make better decisions to rebuild your marriage and get your w's love back. Being angry at w's friend (as I was once to w's parents) doesn't help. I love w's parents still, miss all the great times, and am trying to show my love to them right now as well through changes in myself. I've learned through MB to be soft rather than hard in my dealings with them.