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My H had an "EA" 18 months ago. When I found out he stopped it, and revealved to me at the same time a PA from about 10 years earlier. After reading the Love Busters, is it clear to me that my H was in the Withdraw state.
Looking back, I must have been in the withdraw state by default. I felt so much anger and resentment from him and I could do nothing right, so by default...
He had his affairs to hurt me. Says so himself. He also is JUST like the "Jennifer vs Peggy" example given in the explanation about privacy (?). It was so much easier for him to lie to get what he wanted that it became his everyday normalcy.
Now, we are both back in Intimacy - but I have to admit there is an incredible trust I have not been able to believe yet that makes me hesitate.
I still feel he is not being honest about his past and therefore naturally feel that still today he will follow the path of lying to not hurt me, rather than 'go through' the short term hell of having to fess up. I want to not doubt his current honesty.
He has to travel and I want so desperately to believe he will not hurt me again with a future affair. But I just can't fully believe him because I still have doubt about his past truthfulness.
When I try to discuss it, he shuts down, makes me feel like I'm the bad guy for dwelling in the past and refusing to believe him. He says I am "choosing" to live with this mis-trust rather than letting it go and just being in the present.
Please help me. How can I come to terms and move on and forget the past - or how we "Enthusiatically" agree to get to the truth of the past? (He has promised I know everything - I still don't believe it.)
Also, how can "WE" get his habit of lying under control. I'm afraid he's lied so much he just can't stop. Its his crutch to avoid conflict. Help?
Last edited by SIS2008; 01/31/10 11:05 PM.
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When I try to discuss it, he shuts down, makes me feel like I'm the bad guy for dwelling in the past and refusing to believe him. He says I am "choosing" to live with this mis-trust rather than letting it go and just being in the present. Translation: He wants you to shut up, get off his back and stop asking questions because it was really fun for him when he could have both girlfriends *and* a wife without his wife getting all upset about it. Trust has to be earned, and avoiding conflict only leads to more conflict. Oh, and "we" canot get his habit of lying under control. Only "he" can do that. Here is an old MB post that might help you. You cannot make him do anything, but you can sure put up boundaries to protect yourself (and your children, if you have them) from his lies, abuse and neglect. He's not going to protect you, so that leaves you. ***** A boundary is not defined as "something I don't like." A boundary is defined as "something I will defend no matter what." A very common question is, "How do I enforce a boundary? How do I make my spouse stop lying, how do I make my spouse stop dating OP, how do I make my spouse start taking care of our family instead of someone else's?" The answer is: You don't. Trying to "make" people do the things listed above is not enforcing a boundary. It's control, it's manipulation, it's laying down demands, etc. etc. etc. And none of it works. The answer to the question, "How Do I Enforce A Boundary?" is virtually always the same: You remove yourself from the situation. You stop allowing the boundary trespasser to have any access to you at all. This is what's meant by, "You can't control others. You can only control yourself." You can't "make" your spouse stop lying to you - but you can remove yourself from their presence and no longer allow them around you until they do. You can't "make" your spouse stop dating OP - - but you can remove yourself from their presence and no longer allow them around you until they do. You can't "make" your spouse take care of your family instead of someone else's - but you can remove yourself from their presence and no longer allow them around you until they do. Get the idea now? Boundaries are for *you*. They are to protect you from people who would do you harm. They are NOT about "making" others do anything. They are about protecting *YOU*. Castle walls don't make the invaders stop their cruel and destructive attitudes - but they do protect you from their intrusion. Boundaries are castle walls. And as far as anger goes, you will find that good boundaries will make much of it go away. Good boundaries really do make RAGE dissipate, because anger + fear = rage. Good boundaries keep you safe, and when you are safe, fear goes away. You will certainly have some righteous anger left, sure, but the RAGE will fade away because there is no longer the fear hanging around to fuel it.
Me, BW WH cheated in corporate workplace for many years. He moved out and filed in summer 2008.
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I hear you. But how can he prove he is telling the truth about the past? He swears he is. What can he do to make me believe him? I feel so much closer to him when he does reveal a truth. And my gut says there is more. He will happily live in our current status at let me slip into continued distrust. There is no motivator for him to work for that trust. Our present truly is good - I'm not an idiot - I have my own wall of protection (that ultimately blocks true soul-mate-ness) but our current is otherwise very good. Is there like a "tell me a new truth about your past every friday" kind of thing that anyone can recommend? I want to grow in a positive way from this, and want him to feel the positive growth too. Help?
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SIS, with that shady history, I would probably insist he pass a polygraph test. Schedule a polygraph and tell him about it a day before. Watch him start singing like a canary!
Another important thing will be to affair proof your marriage. That means NEVER EVER spending the night apart again. Never going out alone without each other. And never having opposite sex frienships outside of your marriage. Traveling alone is an INVITATION to an affair and should never happen. Not even Dr Harley travels alone without his wife. He should open up his life to you in every way, give you cell phone passwords, etc.
I would also slap a keylogger on his computer and perhaps secretly install flexispy on his phone.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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There is no motivator for him to work for that trust. Exactly. As long as he knows you'll still be there for him when HE wants you to be there, why should he bother to stop lying and cheating? That's a great arrangement for HIM. Here's how you know that someone is in a wayward state: When your pain means absolutely nothing to them. This is how an addict behaves. Nothing matters to them except their drug and getting their fix. I was going to suggest a polygraph, too. Ask him if he'll do it. His response will tell you pretty much all you need to know. My guess is he'll blow his top (because he's still lying and has no reason and no desire to stop.) But ask him anyway. You'll get your answer. I'm sorry this is happening to you.
Me, BW WH cheated in corporate workplace for many years. He moved out and filed in summer 2008.
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So no one going with the "don't look back" method? My point is that I've already decided (bare with me here) that I love him enough to be with him and build on the good that we have - no mater what the past. I don't want to punish the past out of him. But if there were a way to create a positive and productive means for us to grow by him opening up more, it would only make us stronger. There is nothing he can tell me that can be any worse than the assumptions in my head about his past. When he does share a truth I feel many love bank points going at him. How can I get this message across to him and give him the courage to go for it.
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So no one going with the "don't look back" method? My point is that I've already decided (bare with me here) that I love him enough to be with him and build on the good that we have - no mater what the past. I don't want to punish the past out of him. But if there were a way to create a positive and productive means for us to grow by him opening up more, it would only make us stronger. There is nothing he can tell me that can be any worse than the assumptions in my head about his past. When he does share a truth I feel many love bank points going at him. How can I get this message across to him and give him the courage to go for it. My recovery has a lot of the "don't look back" method. Not because I can just forget what's happened, but in order for our recovery to be successful we needed to leave the past in the past and create a brand new marriage. Sounds easy, totally desired, but not always easy to do. It's those nasty little triggers that happen upon us that can be damaging. I also have said to my H there is NOTHING that he has done that would create a situation where I would stop loving him and no longer want to work on my marriage. I have work very hard for the last 7 months in creating an envirmment where there is trust, openess and the willingness to walk through anything. The plain REALITY is you can talk until the cow comes home, but you can't "get" that message acrosse UNTIL WH is ready to hear it. What you can do is PRAY. Is ask G-d for guidance on how to create what G-d wants for your M. Talk to G-d about becoming the woman that your WH needs so that G-d doesn't need you fixing what is clearly his battle of trust with your WH. Does that make sense? Is it easy to do this? OH NO WAY...
BS 52, FWH 53, Married 1-1-84 D-day 5-14-07, WH moved in with OW Plan A 9 months, DARK Plan B 3-17-08 until 3-2-09 WH and OW broke up 1-09 Started over 7-09
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Sis, I am new here too, so take what I say with a grain of salt.
My H cheated 3 years ago on our anniversary, and I used the "don't look back" method; mind you I hadn't found this site then, but tried to look toward the future and build upon the positive.
I really thought all was well; I still believe it was. But, I didn't set firm boundaries. I think he assumed my approach meant 1) I didn't care about him, 2) I didn't care about me, or 3) I didn't care if he cheated and therefore wouldn't care if he did again.
Well, he did cheat again and now our family is suffering and being torn apart.
I feel if I had not just let it go and been so trusting without real effort from him, he'd have respected me more, valued me more, and likely thought twice before dropping this nuke on our family.
Please read the info on here and really trust the vets.
Just my two cents.
Married 11/21/03 BW 40 (me) WS 37 DD-14 DS-10 H went to Iraq 1/7/09-10/5/09 D-Day 10/29/09 Got the D papers 11/21/09 (Our 6th Anniversary) Not giving up! Still on Plan A I can only get stronger!
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Sis, I am new here too, so take what I say with a grain of salt.
My H cheated 3 years ago on our anniversary, and I used the "don't look back" method; mind you I hadn't found this site then, but tried to look toward the future and build upon the positive.
I really thought all was well; I still believe it was. But, I didn't set firm boundaries. I think he assumed my approach meant 1) I didn't care about him, 2) I didn't care about me, or 3) I didn't care if he cheated and therefore wouldn't care if he did again.
Well, he did cheat again and now our family is suffering and being torn apart.
I feel if I had not just let it go and been so trusting without real effort from him, he'd have respected me more, valued me more, and likely thought twice before dropping this nuke on our family.
Please read the info on here and really trust the vets.
Just my two cents. My WH told me everything - and I do mean everything. Was it difficult to hear? Absolutely. Was it difficult for him to disclose everything? You betcha. But it was something that was crucial to our R. Having your WH share the whole story of the A with you can can serve this very important purpose: total transparency creates intimacy. Your H may not realize it, but he is carrying a very heavy load with his complete knowledge of his A. This load can serve as a wedge between the two of you. It isn't a matter of 'not looking back'. It's a matter of facing this terrible tragedy and grasping it on your own terms. You have a right to do that.
D-Day 2-10-2009 Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever! Thank you Marriage Builders!
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SIS, has this man ever apologized to you for his actions?
Me, BW WH cheated in corporate workplace for many years. He moved out and filed in summer 2008.
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When he does share a truth I feel many love bank points going at him. How can I get this message across to him and give him the courage to go for it. Perhaps it is not a lack of courage that prevents him from being open and honest. Perhaps it is a lack of integrity? Perhaps O&H are not high on his personal ENs, and therefore he does not understand how important it is to you.
Have both of you completed the EN questionnaire? LINK
Here is The Policy Of Radical Honesty: The Policy of Radical Honesty
Honesty and Openness is one of the ten most important emotional needs identified in marriage, which means that when it's met, it can trigger the feeling of love. But it's counterpart, dishonesty, is one of the five most destructive Love Busters. When spouses are dishonest, they destroy the love they have for each other.
But there is a third reason that honesty is crucial in marriage. Honesty is the only way that you and your spouse will ever come to understand each other. Without honesty, the adjustments that are crucial to the creation of compatibility in your marriage cannot be made. Without honesty, your best efforts to resolve conflicts will be wasted because you will not understand each other well enough to find mutually acceptable solutions.
Most couples do the best they can to make each other happy, at least for a while. But their efforts, however sincere, are often misdirected. They aim at the wrong target. Ignorance, not lack of effort, is often the most important cause of their ultimate downfall.
Couples are not only ignorant of ways to improve their marriages; they are often ignorant of the problems themselves. To avoid conflict, they sometimes deliberately misinform each other as to their feelings, personal history, activities, and plans. This not only leads to a failure to meet an important emotional need, and a withdrawal of love units when the deception is discovered, it also makes marital conflicts impossible to resolve. After all, how can you and your spouse solve a problem if your cards are not on the table?
To help you understand how honest you need to be to have a successful marriage, I have written the Policy of Radical Honesty. I call it "radical" because that's how many see my position on the subject. But I view my policy as simply advocating complete honesty in marriage. In our culture I guess that's a radical idea.
The Policy of Radical Honesty
Reveal to your spouse as much information about yourself as you know; your thoughts, feelings, habits, likes, dislikes, personal history, daily activities, and plans for the future.
To help explain this policy, I have broken it down into four parts: 1. EMOTIONAL HONESTY: Reveal your emotional reactions, both positive and negative, to the events of your life, particularly to your spouse's behavior. 2. HISTORICAL HONESTY: Reveal information about your personal history, particularly events that demonstrate personal weakness or failure. 3. CURRENT HONESTY: Reveal information about the events of your day. Provide your spouse with a calendar of your activities, with special emphasis on those that may affect your spouse. 4. FUTURE HONESTY: Reveal your thoughts and plans regarding future activities and objectives. To some extent this policy seems like motherhood and apple pie. Who would argue that it's not a good idea to be honest? But in my years of experience as a marriage counselor, I have constantly struggled with the belief of many clients that dishonesty can be a good idea under certain conditions. Moreover, pastors and counselors themselves often advise dishonesty when a spouse has committed a particularly thoughtless act, such as infidelity. And many marital therapists warn against complaining, something that some consider one of the seven deadly sins of marriage. So instead of complaining, spouses often stuff their feelings and try to put a good face on a bad situation. Granted, dishonesty can be a good short-term solution to marital conflict. It will probably get you off the hook for a few days or months or keep the problem on the back burner. But it's a terrible long-term solution. If you expect to live with each other for the next few years and still be in love, dishonesty can get you into a great deal of trouble. Because there are so many out there who advocate dishonesty in marriage, I will describe the four parts of my Policy of Radical Honesty, and explain to you why I think they are so important in marriage.
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Mulan - Yes, H has appologized. Very much. He's shared some info about his past that was a very dark secret. He has in many many ways completely exposed himself - and says he feels more in love with me today because he has opened up so much. He talks about how lucky he feels to have me and a relationship where he feels he can be completely open and honest. He used to look to faults in others relationship as an excuse for him to further disregard ours. Now, he comments frequently how lucky we are to not have the trouble that others have. There are so many reasons for me to believe him completely now.
This is what troubles me about my fear to not looking back. He has appologized. Has completely broken down. Has bent over backwards for me in many ways that he absolutely was not willing to do before.
I honestly feel that if there is anything he's not telling me - it is because he really does not want to hurt me and does not want to lose me. This is why I'm looking for a more positive way to enhance that strategy of radical honesty. I have experienced it and it feels great. It makes my love for him grow. I sound like such a sap, but I'm willing to. I just wish this difference in opinion (he's truthful/he's not truthful) was find a way to reveal itself.
Make sense?
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