Ya grumpy today Zelmo?

Not 2, I take no issue with a BS contributing to the marital problems. In any individual case, a BS could be the major contributor.
I just question the 550-50 applying to all marriages. And, I do think that a WS, by viirute of having displayed such poor problem solving skills and such incrdible dishonesty is more liley to have been the major contributor. Just my opinion.

Not as far as I can tell. Do I sound grumpy?

Yes

Well, I am not grumpy , today.

Are you Sneezy or Bashful today?

It became about infidelity the second you posted it as a reply on an Infidelity thread, as advice to a BS.

Here's the thing Zelmo - too freuqently, posted opinions come off as advice to somebody who is in a hightened emotional state. And in that state, many people are unable to sift through the crap advice and find/follow the good/right advice.

And hey, in regards to the disorders you speak of, your advice/opinion may well be fact. But you just gave somebody who by nature of her situation is seeking an "excuse" to be "right" all the justification needed to stop trying to fix her situation and start focusing on her "problem" - potentially dooming her marriage recovery efforts.

Opinions are great, but when shared or stated as fact, particularly to the wrong people at the wrong time, they can do a lot more harm than good.

Oh btw... over on the passworded "FWS ONLY!!!!" thread that is hidden to BS's eyes, we held a poll and yes.. I was voted the unanimous leader. So, nyah nyah.

Congrats, Skald. Do you guys have a secret handshake and decoder rings?
Look, my response, as far as I can recall, was to someone that had already researched this personalit disorder deal, I think.
I think it is condescending and paternalistic to avoid discussing this issue because of some alleged danger that the person may glom onto it as an excuse for not working on his or her marriage.
People that have been involved with one of these disordered types need some support and validation. And, infidelity is rampant among the disordere, so, yes, a discussion of this is bound to be applicable to some BS's situation.

Pep. I think "Dopey" would be a better fit for me, particularly with all my bong usage as a kid.

And I think that is is shortsighted to believe that there couldn't be other problems creating dsyfunction in the marriage.



The way I see it, this original poster has done nothing but put forth the effort to correct the problem. Makes me wonder if you read the all she had to say about it.

I vote for Doc.

Well, I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express.

We did, but then somebody caught a decoder ring to the eye and we had to come up with something new. We're working on birdcalls right now.


So point them instead to the thread/forum that was created specifically for that purpose. This one happens to be for improving marriages. Maybe try to not post controversial "facts" about a specific condition in an open environment, particularly on a thread that will immediately catch the eye of those who newly discovered that they joined our clubs and will latch onto every ridiculous statement that is spoon-fed to them... right or wrong.

Use a fine brush when needed, and a wide brush to paint a broad picture. For example: All WS's are 100% responsible for their A, and any thoughts otherwise are mere justifications. Statement that is considered "fact" for every case, regardless of circumstances. As opposed to: Even the fact you are wondering if you were part of the Pre-A marriage problems means you probably were not... = specific information that fits into a category and should be contained to that category. Because outside of specific circumstances, that advice is nonsense.

And guess what? Even if her spouse does have BPD - she was STILL RESPONSIBLE for a portion of the declining marriage (sure, maybe not 50%.. but maybe it was 50% too... maybe it was 75%... the amount of responsibility is irrelevant and subjective... fixing what she takes responsibility for is what matters) and fixing those issues will help HER whether it helps to fix the M or not.

Ahh, I didn't see the post where she stated that her WH was diagnosed with a personality disorder. Please, link it for me?

I did see the posts where the OP was possilby justifying her righteous beliefs because her WH has been an a** for years. BTDT - to my BS. And I was wrong. Maybe she fits into the smaller category who is dealing with a true BPD WH and needs help with that (and I missed that post). Maybe she's looking for acceptance and justification for her excuses. Either way, most people will find exactly the information/help/(justification) they are Looking for.

Skald, from my perspective, as a BS, despite being badly traumatized, I beleive I was able to discern what was applicable to my XWW's personality. It was relatively easy to look at her pre-A behaviors and distinguish them from those displayed by a typical WS.
I guess we just view BSs differnetly. I have firsthand expiereince as one.
I do not know your story. Presumably, you admit your behavior as a WS was abusive, but have accepted that, and felt remorse.
I think the key to distinguishing the disordered WS from the simply terribly flawed WS is this lack of remorse. It is seen in behaviors that pre-date the A.

Skald, I don't recall anyone making you the thread police where you get to dictate what goes in one. Sounds pretty arrogant to me.

Also, I'm not doing your homework for you. You read the thread.

Doesn't this statement leave just the tiniest bit of possibility that you were wrong? Not to D, that is a decision you can't be wrong in... but in your opinionated diagnoses. Biased opinions, afterall, are about as useful as one legged soccer players.


I believe the key to distinguishing the disordered WS from the simply terribly flawed WS is the... well, Dr's signature after therapy and counselling. Anything else COULD BE merely justification in reaction to an emotionally difficult situation. And until medically proven otherwise, should be treated as such PROVIDED you WANT to attempt to recover your marriage.

Most WS's (I daresay) villified their Spouse before, during, and/or after the A happened. Re-wrote history so the BS fits into the new persona created - years before any noticeable "problems" really occured. It stands to reason that a BS can do the same.

And I want to be Grumpy today.

How ridiculous to imply that anyone ever said that to suit your need for whatever point you are trying to make.

A little touchy there today Skald? Have you been accused of having a personality disorder?

Ahh, that was the poll directly after all FWS elected me leader. Sorry, you weren't invited apparently.

Here, how about this: She didn't say her husband was diagnosed with a personality disorder (on this thread.) You can't do my homework - it simply doesn't exist.

Good thing too, because I would not have voted for you.



Neither did anyone else, on this thread.

My $.0175:

Thanks to MB and Zelmo in particular, I was able to "connect the dots."

Current Situation = Present Marriage + Past History

When I arrived here, I had never taken WW's past into consideration. My own emotional immaturity had history beginning at Day One: the day we met and began a relationship. WW had me convinced the past was behind her and that she had not only survived, but was a strong, capable woman to boot.

I even remember some "rumblings" when we started dating, that I attributed to "sour grapes:" I had wound up with the head-turning woman that many others lusted after. Fueled by my own insecurities (to this day I do not consider myself a physically attractive man). Even my DD saw things that I did not. In her wisdom (yes, I consider it such), she kept her impressions to herself rather than become an antagonist. Toward the end, DD removed herself from our lives, wanting to have little to do with WW. I was oblivious to what was obvious to thers.

Through the haze and the pain, Zelmo, et al, convinced me to look at the whole picture and when I did, a completely different perspective came into focus. [i]I[/i} was the one who carried the load in our relationship. She would refer to us as being "partners," but there was very little about it that ultimately did not wind up being about her Even the A that broke us apart was about her. It was just "part of her journey" she casually tossed off. No care about vows, commitment, obligations, honor or integrity.

When I looked at the whole picture, The Leopard came into view. She was behaving in character. Her leaving me and the marriage was just another in her growing string of failures based on her inability to react and respond to conditions in a mature, responsible manner.

Understanding that, I then had to be honest and ask myself, "Do I really want to recover this marriage and return to a life that will likely result in my health problems (a reported side-effect of being in a relationship with a disordered person), uncertainty, distrust and emotional abuse?"

Only someone as sick and crazy as I was when I got here would answer "yes." But it took some real honest people here who didn't try to sugarcoat things to make me take a good look at my own issues, and to assess the fork in the road and to choose which I wanted to take.

It's been painful and extremely sad, but I have chosen to let The Leopard continue on her wayward --and disordered-- ways. Without me.