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Originally Posted by Dufresne
Zelmo - STOP this. NOT every WS has PD and your suggesting it to every newcomer is NOT warranted and won't be tolerated.

So I'm not so far off base now, am I?



Me,BW - 42; FWH-46
4 kids
D-Day #s1 and 2~May 2006
D-Day #3~Feb.27, 2007 (we'd been in a FR)
Plan B~ March 3 ~ April 6, 2007

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Originally Posted by MarriedForever
Originally Posted by Dufresne
Zelmo - STOP this. NOT every WS has PD and your suggesting it to every newcomer is NOT warranted and won't be tolerated.

So I'm not so far off base now, am I?
What makes you say that?

Zelmo #2321929 02/10/10 07:41 PM
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Zelmo - STOP this NOW.


Dufresne
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Folks, lets get back on track here and keep posts productive and helpful to the OP.

thanks, Revera


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Revera #2321975 02/10/10 08:22 PM
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Ok, so WH and I had a talk...we are just TOO far apart on this to find middle ground. We have agreed to do the forum thing for advice and of course, do the counseling with Dr. Harley and continue with our online program.

I haven't asked him about the weekend thing...too much drama today. There is absolutely no reason why we couldn't attend, just need to wait and broach it at a better time.

Look, I have no idea why or how my husband could do what he did...but we were together for over 7 years and he was nothing but good to me. He's not a golddigger (or was not, I'm not sure what his motives are now). He actually worked his butt off and supported our family while I started this business up. I can't defend who he is now...I don't know or understand the person that lives with me now.

For me, it is pretty simple...either I have married a con-artist who saw an opportunity in me and played me for a fool and he is a cruel, manipulative person who was just waiting to tear me down....OR I married a man that did a terrible, terrible thing for reasons I am not sure I will ever understand. Either way, I have three children with him and he is in my life FOREVER. And so I am praying like hell that its the latter option and there is hope for our family.

I have asked him to vent here and I will do the same. Again, and I can not say it enough, THANK YOU for your advice, support and time. Our family needs it.

Revera #2321994 02/10/10 08:41 PM
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Hi h_b_h,

Quote
part of his behavior was to "put me in my place"

This is not an unheard of line of thinking... I expressed it almost immediately after dday, to H and then here. A few here said they'd felt the same.

I also owned my own business, completed my education, and overall had my act together. H was also an employee with barely a HS diploma (his words), but with great technical skils (MUCH better than mine) and street smarts.

I just considered us "differently abled" before dday. After dday (in my eyes) he was an evil, jealous monster who just needed to take me down a notch or two to make himself feel better!

It's one of a hundred anger scenarios you'll run though... None of them will fit perfectly. You're looking for answers, and since he's clammed up you're not left with another option. That's why it's so important for him to be H&O about this... because a BS will go to the worst case scenario, every time.

I just wanted to say that I understood the line of thinking... but it usually does not turn out to be the case.

And I understand your ANGER. I grew up very poor, and worked extra hard to create a nice LIFE. I battled so many evil people and situations just to escape that hell hole, to be blindsided by my own H... it's beyond infuriating.

I got rid of the toxic people in my life, most of them family. And the one who got me was the one I selected, on my own.

I am very sorry for your pain.

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Originally Posted by hurt_but_hopeful
For me, it is pretty simple...either I have married a con-artist who saw an opportunity in me and played me for a fool and he is a cruel, manipulative person who was just waiting to tear me down....OR I married a man that did a terrible, terrible thing for reasons I am not sure I will ever understand. Either way, I have three children with him and he is in my life FOREVER. And so I am praying like hell that its the latter option and there is hope for our family.

With time I think you'll find this to be the real answer....... The Harley's are wonderful people and will help you both!





Recovery began 10/07;

Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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Thanks TST...can you post to WH?? He's very frustrated right now. I think WH needs encouragement too smile I need a place to vent here because I am LB'ing like crazy and I HAVE TO STOP. But I'm thinking maybe that my vents are getting carried over to his posts???

Any help you can give him would be so appreciated...I read your story tonite...I hope that WH and I find our way through this....

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Agree with TST. Right now the pain he caused and chance he took when he threw away his family hasn't really sunk in. But it will.

My WH was in the fog about his affair with his 22 year younger soulmate for over a year. He thought she was wonderful, wasn't after him for money, blah, blah, blah.

We divorced and the affair only lasted 3 more weeks after the D was final. One of the last things he told me before he killed himself was that he cursed the day he met OW.

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Originally Posted by hurt_but_hopeful
Ok, so WH and I had a talk...we are just TOO far apart on this to find middle ground. We have agreed to do the forum thing for advice and of course, do the counseling with Dr. Harley and continue with our online program.

I haven't asked him about the weekend thing...too much drama today. There is absolutely no reason why we couldn't attend, just need to wait and broach it at a better time.

Look, I have no idea why or how my husband could do what he did...but we were together for over 7 years and he was nothing but good to me. He's not a golddigger (or was not, I'm not sure what his motives are now). He actually worked his butt off and supported our family while I started this business up. I can't defend who he is now...I don't know or understand the person that lives with me now.

For me, it is pretty simple...either I have married a con-artist who saw an opportunity in me and played me for a fool and he is a cruel, manipulative person who was just waiting to tear me down....OR I married a man that did a terrible, terrible thing for reasons I am not sure I will ever understand. Either way, I have three children with him and he is in my life FOREVER. And so I am praying like hell that its the latter option and there is hope for our family.

I have asked him to vent here and I will do the same. Again, and I can not say it enough, THANK YOU for your advice, support and time. Our family needs it.

This is a great place to vent. And you both are very raw right now. So well done on getting your feelings out here as you have some of the best Vets wading in to help you.

May I be so bold as to suggest a couple of things. I think both of you are scared right now. You are both facing HUGE upheaval in your lives if you continue down the separation and divorce path. Your children face HUGE upheaval and insecurity if you go that way. It is in all of your best interests to make this work. There are no winners in a divorce if a marriage can be reconciled.

TST gave you some sage advice and that is TIME.

MB principles will guide you to the place where you will be able to fall in love with your spouse again. Right now that seems impossible as trust has been broken. You will need to be able to trust your husband again. And to do that you will require Openness and Honesty and transparency. He will need to be accountable to you to build trust.

So what is it you need from your husband to start? What actions and behaviors do you require from him? Right now your defenses are on high alert and it is understandable that you don't trust him right now. But eventually trust will have to be earned, and you will be looking for certain things that indicate to you he is working on building trust.

You are entering in to a process. This takes time. Take a deep breath.

If you can try to stop the Love Busters. Not only for the sake of the relationship but for the sake of your children. They are likely scared right now too, and as adults we need to protect and nurture them as well. Come here to vent, we can take it.

Blessings
BCBoy

BCboy #2322045 02/10/10 10:28 PM
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BC...

Thanks for the advice...I've gone back and re-read all the posts from today and followed links and read, read, read.

To answer your question, there are a million things I want from WH...but right now, I just want him to stop getting angry and to do MB with me. Also, I wish wish wish that he would just hold me and let me cry. I sound like such a girl...I have tears rolling down my face as I'm sitting in front of the computer.

I have to put little ones to bed. No more tears for HBH tonite...Good nite all

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Lots of people here are working on him in the empathy department...he is sorely lacking.

Cry when you need to and don't try to hide it. You have been through a horrible trauma. Of course you cry...

(((hugs))) I have been where you are, I know. There are lots of us here who have been in your place...you are not alone.


Me,BW - 42; FWH-46
4 kids
D-Day #s1 and 2~May 2006
D-Day #3~Feb.27, 2007 (we'd been in a FR)
Plan B~ March 3 ~ April 6, 2007

In Recovery and things are improving every day. MB rocks. smile
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Quote
Also, I wish wish wish that he would just hold me and let me cry.

Yes!! This is what I wanted as well. Your H wants to "fix" the problem - like a typical male, but you just need him to be quiet, hold you, and let you cry. You need to tell him this and you need to be specific on what you want. Tell him that you don't need fixing at the moment, and that you just NEED to be held quietly. You'll probably have to tell him this EVERY time for a long time. It's been 1 1/2 years for me, and I still have to remind my H sometimes. MrRollieEyes


BW-31
FWH-32(skald)
DD-5
In Recovery
"Do not go where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail."

"To Err is Human. To Arr is Pirate."
drgnfly #2322183 02/11/10 10:11 AM
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Yes, you are probably better off being clear (politely) in what it is you want/need for awhile!

Men/women typically have communication problems (I suspect it is because Men are from Mars and Women are just Freaking Crazy).. no point making things more difficult by leaving each other guessing.

Tell him (each and every time) that you just want to be held - don't give his fixer a chance to start in on you. Once we (being the emotional gimps that we are) go into fixer mode, it's very difficult to do anything other than start tinkering until we break something.

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Originally Posted by hurt_but_hopeful
Look, I have no idea why or how my husband could do what he did...but we were together for over 7 years and he was nothing but good to me. He's not a golddigger (or was not, I'm not sure what his motives are now). He actually worked his butt off and supported our family while I started this business up.
I hope you know I meant no disrespect by saying that, and it is why I asked about his past.


Originally Posted by hurt_but_hopeful
For me, it is pretty simple...either I have married a con-artist who saw an opportunity in me and played me for a fool and he is a cruel, manipulative person who was just waiting to tear me down....
25% chance

Originally Posted by hurt_but_hopeful
OR I married a man that did a terrible, terrible thing for reasons I am not sure I will ever understand.
75% Chance

Originally Posted by hurt_but_hopeful
so I am praying like hell that its the latter option and there is hope for our family.
It probably is the latter, and there probably is hope.

But your H seems to have developed a severely over sized Ego, and he will have to learn some humility for you to recover.


I probably missed it, but how old are both of you, and have either of you been married before? How about Husbands past relationships, are there any, and do you know how they ended?


I now what you are going through, I now the pain, I know the anger, I know the rage. And I know what it is like to deal with a WS that does not "Get It" and thinks I need to "Get over it" and stop "Living in the Past" It's infuriating, stressful, and I started second guessing my sanity.

If your husband, was the good man you believe he was. Then with hard work, I believe you MAY be able to pull this whole thing together. But right now that all depends on weather or no WH gets on board.

I wish you the very best on this hard painful journey.

Last edited by Gack1; 02/11/10 10:25 AM.

Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
Gack1 #2322276 02/11/10 01:20 PM
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Had a pretty good morning so far. WH and I went for a walk...our dedicated "talk" time...WH held me today when I got upset and didn't question me like usual "whats wrong, what can I do, what do you need,how can I fix this?"....just held me.

In my sitch, it just seems almost insurmountable without WH in my life...EVERYONE in my world, and this is not an exagerration, expects me to have the answers and be in charge...and WH was always my rock. I could "let my hair" down so-to-speak and just be me. And now, to feel that I have to be "on guard" with him, its just so hard. I want to trust him so badly.

Thank you again to all those who listen to strangers smile I have three beautiful, perfect children whose lives will forever be changed by the choices WH and I make....so I need those choices to be the correct ones smile

Skald #2322284 02/11/10 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Skald
- don't give his fixer a chance to start in on you. Once we (being the emotional gimps that we are) go into fixer mode, it's very difficult to do anything other than start tinkering until we break something.

Thanks for this! I read most of the posts on this forum just for the little tidbits of truth I can apply to my situation. This one is pure gold and describes me to a "T".

Our MC described it as a woodpecker and a turtle. The woodpecker wants the turtle to come out, so he taps on the shell. Well, the more the woodpecker (me) taps, the tighter in the turtle pulls. To get the turtle to come out, you need to back off and leave it alone for a while.

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Originally Posted by hurt_but_hopeful
Also, I wish wish wish that he would just hold me and let me cry. I sound like such a girl...I have tears rolling down my face as I'm sitting in front of the computer.

Is it not OK to be a girl? It sounds like you are used to being in control and giving direction. Everyone needs a safe place to vent and voice their insecurities. You are not a machine. And the tears I take that as a good sign as that is the grief working through your system. What you are going through is likely one of the worst moments you will ever have to face, so it is OK to feel that way.

What I hear is you are not sure WHERE it is safe to let down right now, as your world has been turned upside down, so you feel the need to put on your business face, in your relationship with your husband, where you once felt safe.

If you both follow the MB process that will give you your best shot at recovery. Are you planning any counseling sessions with the Harleys?

It might be interesting to know what your husbands plan is to rebuild YOUR trust. It might be worth asking him what he plans to do to repair the trust HE has destroyed.

Hang in there, you are doing well considering what you have had happen.

Blessings
BCBoy

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Quote
In my sitch, it just seems almost insurmountable without WH in my life...EVERYONE in my world, and this is not an exagerration, expects me to have the answers and be in charge...and WH was always my rock. I could "let my hair" down so-to-speak and just be me. And now, to feel that I have to be "on guard" with him, its just so hard. I want to trust him so badly.

I said those same words. I know exactly how you are feeling, and I am so sorry you are in that position. However, if both of you follow the MB program 100%, you can have that back. It takes a long time though and lots of hard work. Ups and downs. Keep posting and get into counseling with the Harleys.

You say that you want to do the MB program with your H. Are you ready to get started?

Have you done the EN Questionnaire lately? Do you know what his top needs are? Do you know how he needs those met? (Kind of like how he's been trying to "fix" you when all you needed was a hug. Make sure you know how to meet his properly too.)

JL asked what role your H had in your M. I think (and I may be way off) that he was trying to see if your H felt needed at all. You are independent and have employees to do everything for you, including watching the children. Did your H feel needed at all? You state that he is your rock. Did he know that? I mean REALLY know that. Or did you just assume he knew?

What are your love busters?

Are you getting AT LEAST 15 hours of UA time? This needs to be fun time. I know how hard it is, but you really need to try. It gets easier with time. Are there new activities you can try together?


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hbh, how are you sleeping? On top of the A, you have 3 little ones under the age of 5 and the business...there is a lot on your plate.


BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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