The rest of your post is great help, Telly; thanks! I don't have any particular responses to make; I just wanted to let you know I read and can use it.

Good news everyone: I got the chance to make some good love bank deposits last night.

Today my wife responded to a couple of our email conversations in ways that probably, before yesterday, I would have taken as a sign that last night meant nothing or has been erased. Today, though, I am remembering that the process is the point (thanks, Telly), and being slower on my roll (thanks, LostHusband) and responding with validation of what she has said before anything else (thanks every single one of you; cute how these things are so obvious to everybody except a clueless husband).

I'm sure I'll be likely to blow something up today, but for now I'll take my time and try to practice taking better care of her at every step of the way. At the moment, we are planning a little weekend getaway, which is always a surefire way to deposit love units into my wife's love bank.

Markos,

Kudos on your "are you saying" paragraph. You did that very well.

And if a conversation gets too much (even in email) and you take a break...be sure to state what you're doing, why you're doing it and when you'll be back to continue. No open-ended times...crazy as it sounds, we can feel abandonment (as in forever) when someone walks off, stops responding (in email) or "I'll be back"...doesn't say when.



Telly--love to give laughs, even accidentally. Appreciation right back at you, too.

LA

Just came to an agreement in one of those conversations that we'll alternate handling dinner, for now, and she seems very pleased. You'll all be happy to know I practiced LOTS of validation along the way (and found out a lot of things she was thinking and feeling).


Thanks; I need to hear that from time to time!


Yes, open-ended times like that are a HUGE love buster for me. Horrible, terrible. They mean "forever" to me, and there is no way I can make them not mean that in my mind, yet.

Every counseling we've done has addressed this, but my wife still isn't willing to stop doing it, yet. Feeling hopeful ATM, though.

And I have my share of times I have done similar. I've never told her we can't address something later, but I have sometimes said, "Okay, fair's fair; you walk away when you don't feel like talking any more, and I'm now walking away." It's a huge love buster for her, as well. She's desperately paranoid sometimes in our email conversations that I am going to stop talking to her. She can feel what it does ... but it's still one of her most common ways to react.

Anyway, don't start letting me know how to rethink all this; I'm already doing it. I'm describing the OLD WAY of doing things. Still working on and hoping about the NEW WAY.

Folks, anyone who can help, I think I need more validation tips. I'm becoming concerned that I'm starting to sound like a broken record answering EVERYTHING with paragraphs that start out with "Okay, ..." and "So you feel ..." If I'm noticing this, I'm worried it can't be long till she has a moment where suddenly it all sounds fake. It's NOT fake, but I don't want it to sound that way!

Don't worry about what she might think now. She's not thinking it now.

My concern is that you're validating to get her to feel she's heard...which the reverse of pure intent...I validate to ensure I'm really hearing my DH as he intends...

See the difference?

Next level of listen and repeat is to listen and repeat with filter. That means you don't hand back the words verbatim, you hand them back with YOUR filter revealed...

In your words. Which means in your own head, you're listening to her, and then validate by telling her what you heard in your head.

Which would you fear more--sounding like a broken record (stupid, embarrassed, something?) or acting from disrespect?

You can't control her perceptions...you can only control your actions from your own code. See? I often sound like a broken record. I know I'm coming from my respect for you...you may take my repetition in a variety of ways. Not in my control. Together, we'll share, back and forth, and reach understanding.

Understanding is not instant or immediate, though we treat it as if it is...has to be reached, strived for, attained. Takes two or more.

Strive first to understand, then be understood.

LA

Lovinganyway raises an interesting point. Seeking to understand so you DO understand, vs. seeking to understand so that your partner feels understood.

I don't know that I care about which intent my H has. In fact, I'm quite sure that there are plenty of times when my H DOES understand perfectly what I'm saying. But there may be some nuance of feeling or emotion that I don't feel I've communicated clearly... And when he listens/repeats, I have a chance to correct that.

When he's doing it for me (active listening: i.e. listening and repeating), I think it's all about me. I think he's doing it for me. And I love that. I especially love it when he's earnest and present.

If it's just "rote" (meaning, him just saying words to appease me) that's NOT satisfying. I can tell the difference.

I guess what I'm saying is, if my husband views active listening as a gift to me and to our communication process, then that's enough for me. He may even think he doesn't "need" to do it for himself... (even after doing so has resulted in clarified understanding on his part). I don't need him to think "I wonder if I'm missing something here"... I am content simply with him engaging openly in the process.

All that is to say, I think if you start by practicing active listening (as you have been doing), then your own interest and ease will increase. It will start to feel awkward less. You may well begin to enjoy the whole process for YOURSELF.

(I'm not saying LA is wrong. I'm just saying that I don't really need my husband to seek to understand me for it's own sake. I will take it as a gift if he does it for me, and will appreciate that. :-) )

BTW: You don't have to have a starting phrase. My typical one was "I hear you saying..." but that got old for H. Now I just say: "you feel blah blah blah." "You think blah blah blah".

Thank you for the alternate perspective, Telly.

Here's my current description of my motivations; everyone can feel free to let me know if you think there's a problem:

RIGHT NOW, I am trying hard to validate what my wife is feeling when she talks with me FOR THE PURPOSE of depositing love units in her love bank. That may look like "to get her to feel she's heard," but I hope it shows less selfish connotations. Like Telly said, it's a gift I'm trying to give my wife ... because I'm seeing signs that she is thrilled by it!

Now, that's not the only purpose; just the main purpose. There are a bunch of other purposes:
* because I need redundancy in communication to ensure that I'm understanding my wife
* because I tend to overestimate my level of understanding of what my wife is saying to me
* simply because I need to learn how to do this

And I believe these are intertwined. My purpose is to give a gift to my wife ... and the gift she wants is to know that she is understood. Therefore, doing this in order to make sure that I understand HAS to be a goal, if I'm going to achieve my current main purpose.

Down the road the relative weights of these purposes may be readjusted, but currently I'm thinking of it as winning my wife back, making deposits in her love bank. Like I said, you guys please let me know if there's a problem in my thinking here.

Interestingly enough, LovingAnyway, about the third time I read your post it dawned on me, for the first time in my life, "Hey, it sure would be nice if my wife would ensure she's really hearing me as I intend." My instincts still don't lean towards validation conversation for that, but I bet that will change over time, as I keep getting positive feedback from my wife and observe the process in action.

I'm good with that, Markos. I think you're choosing to validate and that's what is most important (Telly makes good sense).



And yes, you will usually find in your wife what you want for yourself...not weird or wrong. And when you do this, you will, as a result, feel more heard, understood...and yes, it's influential and she may actually do it more...because it's a new dance you two have begun. Be sure to see it through to your goal of face to face, keep practicing each step of the way...

because we very often do overestimate our understanding (sneaky assumptions) even as we get much better with validation.

Do you feel more love deposits in your own bank from choosing to do this and/or doing it?

LA

Yes, primarily from her reaction to me doing it.

However, I can say that the entire process of learning to do it has captivated my attention, and I found it affecting conversations I had at church last night, and conversations I had with my children today. I figure that is probably a good thing.

Great to know, markos. Was the same for me, including coworkers, strangers, everywhere there are humans.

I felt lighter, freer and happier as a result of this one choice.

LA

I'd just like to report that the last couple of nights my wife has started to intentionally meet some of my emotional needs again.

Awww...great news. Thanks for sharing, markos.

LA

Yay!!!!

Looking forward to an update when you have a chance, markos.

LA

We had a very good weekend, and I believe I deposited a lot of love units.

I had my second session with Dr. Harley this morning. Unavoidably, I had to do it in the room my wife and I slept in, with her still trying to sleep! Today she is very depressed and despondent, and I think overhearing the session is why. (She also was very restless toward the end of the night, and so despite falling asleep early, she didn't get a lot of sleep.) Unfortunately we have only one phone jack in the house (it is a very old house). We have a cordless phone, but the reception on it is so terrible I don't want to use it for these sessions, and cellphones are even worse.

I will have to think hard about what to do next time. Of course, ideally, she will join me. I wonder if that's not part of why she is feeling despondent: she's still feeling some internal guilt over not joining me, or possibly external pressure.

I'm getting lots of opportunities to practice validating my wife's feelings.

I have learned that I interrupt my wife ... A LOT. Dr. Harley stressed the importance of eliminating this. I must not treat it as something she can just "get over," because doing so is very selfish. (I never thought of it that way, but I am near-completely unaware of myself doing it. Absolutely terrible habit!) Fact is, my wife feels like everyone in her life who ever cared about her interrupts her constantly, and it makes her feel insignificant.

She says I never did it when we were dating. Not surprising; I can't imagine she would have stayed with me and consented to marry me if I had!

From one ex-interrupter to another...I hear you!



Another way to freedom, btw. That was my experience. My vow to act, not react, helped a lot...as did the listen and repeat. I had no idea how much I interrupted.

New ways to love...removing is the same as adding new actions. Kudos on this discovery. Be sure to amend past interruptions...tell her that's not who you really are. And listen to her responses...you can know her new again. Every single day.

Thank you for sharing.

LA

I've got to figure out how to use talking on the phone to deposit love units.

Our phone conversation is practically nonexistent, but it used to be wonderful years ago when we were dating, before we were engaged. Then she got really quiet, which made me start feeling like I was running out of things to say.

After our first child was born, she was usually too busy to answer the phone, and in a few of our fights she told me she didn't want to hear from me anyway, so I don't call much during the day.

When I do call it feels awkward. We discuss whatever's urgent and needs to be taken care of in a businesslike manner ... which certainly doesn't deposit any love units. When she's feeling withdrawn, my wife is usually so quiet that I can't hear what she's saying on the other end, even if something is urgent.

Today I didn't hear from my wife by email for most of the morning (which is unusual), and I was feeling ansy and thinking I ought to be doing something to deposit love units, so just before I took my lunch I called, and she answered. We talked a little bit, and enjoyed it, but it was still just very awkward.

Nowadays I'm in a big office with a number of other people, too, so it's difficult to have any sort of intimate conversation. And there's no break room or meeting room with a phone where I can go close the door and call my wife, like I used to have in my old job. How do other guys who don't have a private office handle this? How do I use the telephone during the day to make my wife feel loved without feeling like I'm undressing in front of my coworkers!

It sounds like she isn't wanting to be interrupted during the day. Since she is in withdrawal although making contact makes you feel better, it doesn't deposit any love units for her. Perhaps it even takes them out.

Is there another way that you can make connection? Perhaps an email saying that you were thinking about her?

My wife has agreed to go to Marriage Builders weekend with me, if we can line up babysitting!