Mfoss, my first reaction is that if she's at home and there is no OM, you'd be making a mistake to go to Plan B. She could very likely be pushed off the fence if you forced her out and went dark on her.

I know how tempting it must be. I had no choice because The Leopard and I had a legal agreement requiring her to leave the house. But since I had only found MB less than a week before, I was very torn because I thought I should have been able to work Plan A longer, even though the four weeks we'd had under the roof together pre-MB were absolutely horrid (and I LB'd big time). In my case, I think I'll always wonder if things might not have worked out differently if I'd had more time to Plan A.

The other thing that comes to mind is the possible LB potential of you asking about reconciliation and OM. It's possible she just doesn't want to look in that direction. It sounds like you're both getting some LB$ deposits, and this tack doesn't add any. I'm not suggesting you ignore it like the elephant in the living room, but it sounds a little jarring to me; think of how it might sound to her...

Interesting, I had not heard this particular PlanA advice before. Sounds wise! Thanks...

Ok, very good counsel once again.

I suppose I want to think about what to do if there is *another* OM, but I should just Plan A in earnest, and rest assured that I will cross that bridge if I come to it (hopefully not).

Another question, I am curious how Recovery starts typically. Is it WS suggesting working at it?

Bad topic/question.

No OM, wife home, recover, OM reappears or new OM appears straight to plan B.

Each of us is different. But you're right not to dwell on "what ifs." Just work on "what is."

Now you've got me. I haven't BTDT. I know my personal recovery began when I chose to continue living my life rather than staying stuck in one place.

And, not to sound like I have all my scheisse together, I still have to deal with my emotions, doubts, fears and curiosity every day. For example, the past two nights I've only gotten about four hours' sleep, waking each time to some odd train of thought that has her in it. Today started out pretty bad, too. I was feeling sad and dejected. I almost dreaded coming her to see what was going on.

But I'm feeling better now. Life goes on...

Glad to hear that Fred.

"This too shall pass", and "time is on your side" get me through dark hours.

So, when WW brings up contentious issues (like her getting an apartment, etc...) I should just deflect? If so, I would appreciate more guidance on successful deflection, without lovebusting.

tx

Hi all -

I am back. I have not been posting as I was on a trip, and also I have been trying to "self-serve" by working through my challenges by writing about things and generally coming up with the answers I need. However...

It looks like there has been another one night stand. I am 90% sure, but do not have all the facts. Not sure I totally need them, however I would like to know when it happened, as it might have happened before my last exposure.

I am at a loss as to what to do, and I am posting here somewhat to just vent and sense check things.

Plan B is looking real good, but maybe I should plan A further? I don't know! Neither option looks good to me to be honest at this point.

Help!

Well, I don't know which to tell you to pick, I think in the end it will be your decision.

I can tell you however, that the transition between Plan A and Plan B is harder than either plan itself. You will go through moments where you won't know that it is the right thing to do. I will say that as far as the emotional turmoil, Plan B is a bit easier. There is no more snooping and you are totally thinking about yourself and what you want with no regard to what your WS is doing.

Make sure that when you choose to go to Plan B that you KNOW that you did the best Plan A you could and you just couldn't do it anymore.

This way you won't have any regrets.

I'm sorry, mfoss. To me, this would be a deal-killer. The multiple A's in the past are one thing, but in the midst of all this for your WW to have a ONS just smacks to me of an out-of-control woman who is not only a risk to herself, but to you (STD-ville!?) and everyone around her.

Hi - so it appears that this ONS most likely happened before my last exposure (the second one, which was also a ONS), and well, that is is all I know for sure right now. My sense is that there has not been more contact since then, or other ONS, but I don't know what I don't know. Will keep digging, and see what I can turn up. Need to just organize my thoughts, still reeling a bit to be honest.

Also, preparing for plan B, spoke to a lawyer. In the meantime, as hard as it is to do, Plan A.

What happened?

This is good advice, and I know my Plan A is scoring some points for sure. I also know it is really hard to effectively Plan A with all the resentment I have, but I keep trying.

I understand when I hit Plan B, there are no more chances to demonstrate positive changes and make LB deposits.

I know many people persist with Plan A through some very crazy situations, and I guess I am evaluating where I am at. A rock and a hard place it seems.

At this point, mfoss, you have to decide whether you want to keep your marriage and run the risk of more A's and ONS, or if you think your WW is truly capable of changing and becoming the wife you want and who brings the concepts of fidelity, loyalty and faithfulness to the M.

To be honest, I've lost a lot of faith in her, just from what you've written.

It's your life. Know that if you continue to subject yourself to emotional abuse it will spill over into other areas of your health, and the chances are that your life will end prematurely.

If you wish, I can go cite data to support this assertion.

But I think you already know it instinctively.

This is your Turning Point, mfoss. Think long and hard before you choose...

I wonder what the ONS means relatively? Is it better or worse than a single deep A? How does it change the other MB principles, especially in terms of Plan B timing. On one hand, I think about the examples where BS Plan A for six months while a single A is on. On the other, it sure seems abusive!

I have read enough other posts to still have some hope that WW is capable of recovery, however, I may need to Plan B.


I am doing a lot of thinking, and I am sure I will have more questions as work through this. Thanks so much all.

Here is something I am wondering, is the fact that these are ONS relevant to how effective plan A can be? I sort of feel that the fact that these are ONS point to greater dysfunction in WW stability etc..., and that my plan A efforts are less effective in this dynamic. I could be way off base, what do you think?

From what I remember reading in SAA, DR H states that whether there is no emotional attachment or a HUGE emotional attachment that the steps for R are the same.

If the A(or multiple A's) doesn't end then you Plan A followed by a Plan B.

Plan A alone does not usually end an affair. I think that the stats are about 15%.

Hope this helps.

That really helps actually! Thanks very much

mfoss, I'm afraid you might be getting to the point of "paralysis by analysis." You are now searching for the "why" of things, when the answer to that may not be knowable.

I know I did this. In my case, WW had already moved out, so I spent weeks trying to figure out "why." Even though I reached my unprofessional conclusions, the end result was the same: There was nothing I could do about it. "Why" is a control word. It is an attempt by us to try to control the circumstances.

That said, you need to PLAN OUT your next step(s). Whichever direction you take, make sure you have a PLAN.

So, here is my thinking at the moment...

My options are Plan A and Plan B. I must at least Plan A while I prepare for Plan B. I have felt previously that planning for Plan B was kind of counter productive, as it was taking away energy could be devoting to Plan A. And Plan A is really hard to do, and takes a LOT of energy to do properly! I am by no means great at it, but I keep getting better, and I may as well Plan A my heart out in the interim, but Plan B preparations are moving up in priority.

The question I struggle with is, would Plan B improve my situation? At some point I may have to, to be sure, but I am not sure when to switch to Plan B. The ONS I found out about today was prior to my last exposure, and it seems that exposure has dampened WW's resolve to cheat. Not that I would be terribly surprised to find out more, but from what I can tell exposure did have have an effect.

I struggle with being hard on myself in regards to the effectiveness of my Plan A, it really is one of the hardest things I have ever had to do. I am constantly realizing ways in which I am screwing up, and 2x4ing myself. Still, I am getting better, and I know I am making some positive impressions on WW.

You are right on the money. Honestly, I was feeling out of control a bit earlier today, and have "righted the ship", somewhat.

My first exposure was a complete mess compared to my second (so sad to have gotten better through experience), and it all had to do with PLANNING. I am almost proud of my second exposure, except it is nothing to be proud of.

So, having said that, I need to lay out the objectives of Plan B, and plan out how to execute, as I only intend on doing it once.

In the meantime, I will Plan A as best I can.