You are dead wrong.

You're treating her like the wife she USED to be.

She's not her anymore.

In the mind of a WAW

I did not bring up the OM as turtlehead suggest I do not and it made sense. I asked her if everything is OK and she said yes she is jsut tired. I asked her again a few minutes later and then let it rest.

I popped in the house this monring when the wife was gone and did a no no. I looked at her personal diary. It's actually a workbook on how to get over an ex. Here it is. She has been NC for four months until the recent blow up with the principal. Here is what she wrote. Welcome to my world:

- I have never loved anyone like this. I've never had the magical feelings and I don't know if I will be able to have those twice with someone else. Are people that fortunate to feel it twice.
- I still hope that he leaves his wife for me if he is as miserable as he says he is. I can not seem to accept that the relationship is gone and over. I need to accept it
- I can NEVER move forward while he is still at the school. Too many triggers. I see his car, his name in school e-mails. So many triggers everywhere. Everywhere there are reminders taht he is there.
- I've never felt so admired and loved in my life. He says he loves me but doesn't want the children or (insert my name here) in his life (Yes I made the OM's life miserable. too bad jerk). If he truly loved me he would accept all of that. He would endure. He is a coward.
- I still love him so much and can't seem to move forward. I just can't seem to accept that it is over, because maybe just maybe he will leave his wife if he is as miserable as he says he was.
- prior to meeting him my life was one of existence. Wife mother but empty. I can't go back to that. I was so unhappy not feeling anything. feeling nothing. Feeling empty
- I misss his smile. I miss how I made him feel. I miss how he made me feel. I miss the magic. I miss making love with feeling.

There it is. Inside my WAW's mind at the current moment. Not sure how to process this all. I know you will say its alien talk but have any of the reconed vets had their spouses talk about their affair partners in such a way and still recon. That is heavy stuff to overcome.

By the way I just saw an e-mail to her Dr upping the MG on her Lexapro. She is in a dark dark place.

This is great, FP. You had a rare opportunity to see what your WW is saying to herself - not everyone gets that. Don't feel bad about looking at her diary!

Yes, it's all fog. She is going through withdrawal. If she is able to maintain NC with OM, the time will come when she will throw that diary away, because she'll be so embarrassed by the things she wrote.

Plan A. Keep that up.

Sorry you saw that, FP, it's a real kick in the gut.

On the other hand it is 100% textbook wayward talk. Try to look at it more objectively. They built each other up with empty words. He SAID he loved her.... but he doesn't want her kids in his life. That's not love, that's wanting a meaningless booty call when it's convenient for him.

OM told WW he was "miserable" but obviously he isn't because he's still with his own wife.

Your WW says she is "existing" and "empty" but honestly have you said ANY post by or about an active wayward that says anything different? ALL active waywards say that. This is SO textbook.

So, in light of that, you are in great shape. I know it doesn't feel too good right now (understatement), but this is all empty fantasy nonsense that will blow away on its own. There is nothing at all REAL in that stuff. It is all about feelings, which as we all know can turn on a dime.

Read it again.
Is there any indication of anything real?
Any real love (remember love is an action, not a feeling).

No! The actions there are all indicative of convenience and duplicity.

Duplicity is the perfect word for the content of that email.
Duplicity: deceitfulness in speech or conduct; speaking or acting in two different ways concerning the same matter with intent to deceive;double-dealing.

Maritalbliss and turtlehead. Thank you Thank you Thank you for reminding me of all this. I do try to stay objective but I did have a tear come to my ear for the first time in months after I read her diary but your posts wiped it all away . Thank you. I do look at it objectively and what you are saying about love is so true which is the only way I can get through this. It's the only way I know 5 years from now if we reconcile that we could create real love together and that all that "feeling" stuff she had in her affair will be a dsitant memory. I guess the painful part is knowing that she seems to still have along way to go. D day was October 2008. Here we are feb 2010. I have been at this along time, but oddly enough I am pretty strong. Very strong actually but my fear is that the distance through the seperation is what has helped me heal and collect myself. If I go back into the house how long will I last.

You guys rock! Thanks.

And let me add another thing: I suspect that what her OM said about not wanting her kids is an emotional deal-breaker for her. Because in her fantasy land, she may have had illusions of them forming this perfect little family,going on trips together, or of him helping the kids with homework, being a perfect step-dad, etc...that bubble was burst big-time. Well done, OM!

This is why your WW needs to find work somewhere else, and why she'll never get through withdrawal as long as there is contact w/ OM. As long as OM is in contact w/ your WW, he'll never get through withdrawal either. You are sitting on a ticking time bomb.

That is why you need to get back in your home and get NC established. Otherwise your WW will start up again w/ OM in a couple of months/years.

Get back in your home. Actively try to get NC established by pushing your WW to get a new job or convincing OMW to have OM find a new job. I'm sure OMW isn't comfortable that your WW is still pining after him.

Take charge. Be a man. Eradicate this threat to your marriage and family. Things will NOT improve as long as there is ANY contact between your WW and OM. Only once there is NC for life will your WW finally come through the fog.

Because she and OM are still in contact.

Jim - My wife is extraordinarily stubborn. She refuses to leave her job out self pride. She would rather cutt her nose off to spite her face. She looks at it has HER school and HE needs to be the one to leave.

I am seriously considering moving back in. I need to get my emotional stuff together to make sure I can plan A her fr the long haul. This separation has given me needed strength. I honestly believe the only way through this whole thing is to move out of town. My job is on the rocks and the big guy from Corporate is coming down Monday to let our division know our fate. If I have to move to find a job, something tells me my W might go as well. She has mentioned it before but usually out of escapism feelings and then when that self pride and stubborness kicks in she takes it back. I need to know 100% that I am doing the right thing by moving back in. I am listening to what you are saying. I am a very logical though out person that needs to be 100% sure I'm doing hte right thing locically and emotionally. Don't be afraid to keep kicking me in the butt. I do appreciate it.

I do think that us seperating was a good thing and me discontinuing contact with her for a while was a good thing. It focused 100% of her attention on the OM and it seems like he got a bit freaked out about it since he doesn't want kids (He is 55 and all kids off to college) and he really wasn't looking at leaving his wife to be with a woman that had kids. He also doesn't want to deal with me. Him and I obviously had our go around. He truly is a coward and does fear me greatly. He knows I will use every dime I have in my bank account to make his life miserable and have. Funny thing is when I spoke to him and told him my wife and I were seperating I told him now he was dealing with two obsessed people. Me and now a single women who is insanely obsessed with you. He didn't seem to get the single woman thing but based upon e-mails I've read he understands it now. He told the intermediary at school that my W is a crazy exlover and that he never loved my W. This all got back to my W.

If you have a stubborn child, do you just give up and let them win? If you do, you'll have a holy terror on your hands (much like your WW). Your WW is stubborn because she has learned that being stubborn has allowed her to get her way. If she doesn't want to do something you want, she just digs her heels in, acts stubborn, and waits for you to give up and drop it. Surprise her with your determination. She won't be as stubborn if she realizes that she can't win. You only fuel her stubbornness.

I think the timing to move back in is perfect right now.

Waywards are single-minded addiction focused. If your wife thought there was a chance with OM she'd kill you before letting you back in (or I should say, stay). But the affair is over and she doesn't NEED you to be living alone for appearances or for OM. You are not threatening the affair so she's not likely to put up near the fight you think she will.

You don't want to wait...because in the next two months who's to say she won't discover OM #2. You said yourself...she's into "escapism"...what better way to escape than to attempt to recreate "magic" again with the first smoothe talker that passes her way. If that happens, I presume YOU will be done so I encourage you not to risk it. In addition, if she has ANY wayward interest in another man...she will put up a MUCH larger fight with you as you'll be threatening her wayward mindset.


Now I've tried to give you many come-backs to the differing angles we anticipate your wife will utilize to manipulate you back out your own home. In the end, being fearless and telling her so is likely the best comeback. Just don't give her the slightest inch.

Your "closing" statement [edited to add: this is what you say AFTER she's gone ape crazy on you "to close/end the dabet"...this is NOT an opening statement]:

"Honey, I'm home. If you don't like it that's really not my problem. You can't manipulate me anymore as I no longer fear you. You have your options. You can move to the apartment yourself or file for divorce and try to have me removed, but I am not leaving on my own again without giving this marriage a solid effort at reconciliation. [optional: "at least ONE year"] You don't love me right now and maybe never will again. I get it. Quite frankly, I'm not "head over heels in love" with you either. But we've got a family and a history together. We MAY be able to work this out. Wouldn't "us" working out really be the best outcome for everybody...especially our kids?"


Also...the argument that you're giving the kid's false hope comeback may involve the assertion that it would be far more traumatic for the children to see the police removing their father from their home in handcuff's than any damage "false hope" could cause. [particularly if she starts to threaten that she's gonna have you removed by the police]

I sincerely doubt she'll be calling the cops. I think based upon the emails and notes you've seen (which as others have said are typical fogbabble) that she's prime for a hostile takeover (so to speak). Technically, it appears to me that she's resigned herself to the common withdrawing wayard "woe is me - I'll never experience the magic of rainbows and unicorn type love again." You coming back home just cements it...she's destined to be miserable forever.

Don't push her or try to teach her anything when you do it. Remember the Plan A list....try to "AGREE" with her. Be her friend...LISTEN, LISTEN...LISTEN. Yes, life sucks. Agree that it's likely not gonna work out and that it's not likely "love" can be restored. Instead...you are coming home and just hoping, for now, you can have a marriage "for the kids". You just got to settle her down on the moving back home thing and get yourself firmly established there. You want to minimize the lovebank withdrawal that such seeming one-sided, non-discussed action may make. Once in...THEN you start trying to fill the love bank and rebuild the marriage.

Anyway...lot's of thoughts.

My suggested timetable. If you get an opening...do it this weekend. If not, plan on next Thursday, Friday or Saturday. Friday evening is the best since the courts won't be open until Monday. She also can't get a legal consultation appointment until monday.

Mr. Wondering

p.s. - If she divorces you because you moved back home...then you didn't really have any chance of recovering your marriage separate. Logically, you are just accelerating the timetable of recovery OR divorce. Either way...a resolution of your situation will be at hand and you won't regret being decisive and taking action...either way. I will tell you...IF you recover...she will admire for taking this stand and moving home. I dare say....IF you recover...you will both look back and indicate that the day you moved home so confidently and strongly was the day your recovery truly began.

p.p.s. - Plus, even divorces take time and the court won't make you move out EVEN IF SHE FILES. You'll have time to Plan A either way (as long as she doesn't successfully get a restraining order but you'll have your MP3 wristwatch to protect you from that (I really think you should get this as carrying around a pocket recorder 24/7 can be a bit tedious and difficult to utilize at the exact moment you'll need it should something go bad).

Crap...had two other thoughts



1. An additional reason/argument you can give for why you needed to move home now is:

a. The lease is up in two months and the landlord will be giving you the paperwork to re-lease the place that you will need to sign by the end of March securing the place for another year. Apartments aren't as easy to come by these days with all the people losing their homes so you'll need to make a decision by then and you don't want to sign another year lease if there is a chance you can move back home and save your marriage/family. Not to mention a complete waste of money in rent and loss of security deposit. Thus...you've GOT to move back home now and see if this can work out BEFORE you renew.


b. The part in the journal where she indicates that OM dumped her because of you and the kids may be an indication that your wife is somewhat resentful of her own children and blames them (and you) for the loss of her "magic love". Waywards are notoriously bad parents. Due to their singular focus on their affairs they are typically very disconnected from their children. Seems you could use the excuse/reason that you feel the children need you around more. That one or more of them is expressing the feeling that mom doesn't care about them or hates them and you wonder if your wife is blaming them for losing OM since OM didn't want small children again. Since your wife is certainly disconnected right now, she may buy it. She has no idea how her children "feel" right now since she's focused completely on her own self-inflicted misery. You poke around this issue as her concerned friend. Not really accusing but insisting that you came home to help with the children and see what's really going on with this and distracting her from other arguments and issues. She, of course, may turn it around and blame you for losing OM to which you apologize with a wry sarcastic but trying to be funny NOT HOSTILE "I'm really really sorry I wasn't nicer to the guy trying to steal my wife. Can you ever forgive me??? laugh]. I'm not kidding, humor is your best weapon at this point. Use it as you deflect from the seeming disrespect she thinks she feels at you moving home without her agreement.

*remember...all these arguments are merely an attempt to overcome her initial anticipated hostility. The only REAL issue is the fact that you are doing this move without consulting her and without getting her approval aforefront. Taking offense to such is ridiculous in this situation but to her it will feel like a lovebank withdrawal so any pliable excuse/reason you can sell OTHER THAN just putting it in her face will help you minimize such.

Mr. Wondering

Mr. W,

I don't like it. To me, it smells of weakness. How about, "I want to live in my house again with my family," and just leave it at that? You don't need any excuses. You don't need any permission. You want something, and you do it, and no amount of begging/pleading/negotiating from WW is going to get you to leave. Besides, trying to reason/negotiate with a WW is a fool's endeavor. She has a problem with it? "Sure honey, your grievance is noted," and walk away. Just get her used to living with you and not being able to manipulate you anymore. Show her you aren't afraid of her anymore. She'll think, "OMG, I told him I would file if he didn't move back out, and it didn't even phase him. I better get my act together before he leaves me."

Move back in. Be strong. Avoid arguments and relationship talks. Meet her needs when the window is open. Avoid LBs. Be the man of the family.

FP,

I believe you would make a great mistake by dismissing what she is saying as Wayward fog. I think you need to believe in your heart that what you read is in fact your W's world. The issue is interpretation.

I read that list and I see a woman that found the "thrill" of the fantasy a wonderful relieve from the tedium of day to day living.

I see a woman that is seeking something exciting in her life besides the .day to day tedium.

I see a woman that is deeply depressed and by her own words was probably deeply depressed before the affair.

I see a woman seeking more in her life.

I see a woman that due to her depression does not realize or care for the damage she has done to her marriage, her family, and to you.

I see the makings of a good plan A in all of this.


YOU need to be the one that brings a smile to her life. You need to be the one to bring laughter back. You need to be the one to reach out to this woman and pull her back and then make her happy that you did.

What I see is a process whereby you address her feeling that you cannot be the one to make her happy while she addresses her depression and denial that the fantasy is over.

Everyone is right, her recovery is dependent on NC with OM. And you are right to believe that this is not your fault at all. It is not fair that her depression led to her seeking her fantasy life with an OM while harming you. But that is the nature of situation. Fairness has little to do with it.

Frankly FP, her list gives me great hope that you can pull this off. She has given you the clues. If and when you go home, you cannot be just dragging around no matter how bad you feel. YOU must provide the energy to rebuild this marriage and you must do it with as much smiling as you can muster. Again, not fair, she hurt you, but she is the one depressed. She is the one that was down before this started and maybe she will be the one that will let you rescue her.

I see hope in her writings. Take the lessons where you can find them.

God Bless,

JL

I saw a woman deep in the fog who is rewriting history. Guess it's all where you're sitting.

At the end of the day, FP, you're still holding what you were - a conflicted, foggy WS. The tools are the same - Plan A, meet her needs.

Holy Cow you guys are awsesome. You all make so much sense I'm beginning to have no more excuses.

I do have a MAJOR issue now or maybe I am blowing it up in my mind.Just when you think the drama is gone it has its way of rearing its ugly head again. Here it is.

My daughters confirmation is on Saturday. The OM happens to to be the music teacher who plays at the events such as confirmation. Obviously I do not want him there because all the family members know who he is and it would be quite uncomfortable for all involced. His W will be there as well. A couple of weeks ago I sent him a text telling him that he is not to show up at my daughters confirmation to play so I assume he is not going. Although the principal knows everything, she has let them stay at the school under the assumption that the affair was over and the residual affects would not affect his ability to perform is duties.

Apparently he told the principal he can not go and she forced him. He told the principal that he will not go if his wife prohibits him from going. he is the only provider for his family and he can not lose his job so his wife is enduring it but will be attending to keep an "eye" on things. Needless to say I am furious. My wife called me and I vented. She said there are things going on at school that I need to know and she will tell me tonight. No there has been no contact (and I can verify that). Apparently the principal is getting fed up with the drama herself. My question is how do I handle this with the wife. She is clearly upset that he will be there. She spews venom about him when I talk to her. Tonight I think I should play it calm cool collected and on the day of confirmation as well. "As if" attitude so that she calms down as well. If she sees me get all worked up then she will get worked up and it will make him relevant still. Act as if, act as I don't care.

Of course I will speak to the OM and let him know I will go nuclear should he renew his contract next year. I will let his wife know of all the dirty details (she knows anbout the affair but I did not share the e-mails) and let him know this as well. It gets more complicated but I am not ready to share that yet.

Any thoughts on this. Please keep it real. This situaiton is so delicate emotionally and professionally. If I freak out on this I will look like an out of control man. If I play it calm cool and collected and act as if she may follow suit. Thanks for listening everyone. Your insight has been huge.

FP,

What does the principal have to do with your daughters confirmation? You and your W should be able to choose who plays are your own daughters confirmation and it should NOT be OM.

You need to speak to the principal and tell her about your W's and your wishes. You are the parents of your daughter and this confirmation is a family event that is too important for a principal to have any say in it.

Talk to the principal after speaking with your W. You are right your daughters confirmation should not be ruined for you, your W or your daughter because of a choice by the principal.

JL

Hm. What are your thoughts about this, really? OM will be a lifetime memory related to your DD's confirmation, which is something to think about. Is there no one else who can play, really?? Surely the principal has someone who substitutes in the case of illness, etc?

I don't know, FP - this whole business of OM and OMW being there, at a time where your DD and your family should be the complete owners of the evening - I don't like the sound of it. The principal is right - it IS drama. A drama your WW and the OM have ignited. Unfortunately, it does exist and she needs to understand that, as their supervisor, she does have some responsibility to take control of the sitch. And I think that control should come in the form of subbing out the OM.

I can only tell you that, if I were in your boots, there's no way I'd have OM and his enduring BS there. And you don't need to go off about it - stay calm and collected and make your statement. No OM. That's just my vote.

I think your response is reasonable and certainly simplier than mine; however, I've seen other BH's in similiar situations take "simplier" advice and walk themselves into a crapstorm fully unprepared. I want FloridaPad to keep it simple and stay strong too, I just want him to also be well versed in BULLCRAP (not reason) which he can throw back at his WW if and when his WW goes absolutely nuts. I hope she doesn't. I hope his wife says "OK...it's about time you came home, my counselor recommended it actually". I think the timing is right. He should be short, firm and strong up front, but we don't know how she's going to react and he needs to be prepared as she very likely will progress through her bag of well-practiced manipulations to get what she wants (FP to move back out).

Bag of Manipulations = Anger, Threats, Crying, Yellings, Begging, Blameshifting, Lying, Promising, Gaslighting, Seeking outside validation (calling friends and family, Seeking Outside Manipulation (cops, attorneys).

FP needs to be prepared to respond to it all and simply walking away from a ranting, yelling, crying, begging, lying withdrawing wayward wife isn't going to work. [he'll stay but he won't get any sleep and he won't seem like he cares at all about her]. Further...AVOIDING CONFLICT isn't rebuilding a relationship or Plan A. You've sometimes got to wander into the fog to pull a WW out of it. Even in letting her vent at him...it's meeting her need for conversation. It's relatively easy to do as HE now knows she's fogbabbling and won't pay it any mind. She can't say ANYTHING to hurt him anymore. He's rubber and she's glue. If she's yelling...he whispers but he NEEDS to keep her talking and distract her from the issue of him moving back out (which ain't gonna happen) onto other topics...and then keep her talking TO HIM instead of her running off and calling OM or 15 friends and 5 family members looking for validation and one or more of whom MAY suggest calling the cops, speaking with an attorney or even faking a domestic abuse incident.

Don't avoid conflict. Just don't move out or give her ANY indication that she can talk or manipulate you into moving back out [if you give her ANY crack she'll think she's breaking you and you will only be making your situation 10 times worse)

Last thing: She doesn't really care if he leaves her right now. She doesn't care about anything but herself right now. He could file for divorce tomorrow and she'd be sad and maybe PLAY the victim, but deep down...her give a crap is broken.

Mr. Wondering

This is the issue. I have NO control over whether or not he plays. It's the principals school. Not mine. The only thing I could do is make their life more miserable, which accomplishes nothing. The principal will not ruin confirmation for the entire class because of one parent. They no longer have an alternative. The woman who does the choir just left and he is the replacement.