SB yes I agree.

OK...no more "how can I change him"s....I truly want to learn how to change me...::deep breath:: I guess I need to take my own advice to my children "stop and think" "I know you are angry, we need to calm down". I just feel like I need more control of myself. I wish I had more control over my moods, it's been changing way too rapidly. This time of year it's at it's worse, I feel like I am on a moody roller coaster ride! Yesterday I was so restless and antsy I could hardly sit still, all I wanted to do was get out of the house. It was funny, I wanted to be out in nature, I didn't want to go to the store, I really wanted to go camping to try and calm myself. I felt as though I was on some weird high. I hate when I feel like that, I can almost feel my skin crawling.

The last time I tried explaining it to Hubby he wanted to know what I was smoking and why I wasn't sharing..lol


Anyway, I am really going to give my VERY best effort not to yell back. To think before I yell, a soft answer truly does turn away wrath (ok, I know that's biblical, but it's still true).

Is it avoidance to not mention the remote and find away around it, or do things that cause fights need to be discussed?

I have a question about triggers, what is the gentlest way I can ask him what I do that triggers memories so I can avoid doing those things. Several weeks ago we were having a great time (sexually speaking) kissing and what-not. (he just doesn't kiss during sex, remember) It was just those amazing kisses from early on. Well, I had asked him to do something that required him to get up and do something in the next room and when he came back he said he just wasn't in the mood any more and rolled to his side and went to sleep. I was crushed, but I wonder if he was remembering things.



If that is the case I feel terrible.

At this time all I know are two things about you guys.

You have made some terrible mistakes in relationships and don't completly undrstand why. You want to make it better and are willing to pay any price for a loving relationship with your H you love and respect, now, and are here to find answers and help to do it. You are looking for a response from him and it both scares and hurts you that he doesn't seem to care.

Hubby has been burnt before and set up his wall right after you got married. He is doing what he know will protect his heart and maintain his self-respect because he can't take that kind of dis-respect or failure as a husband that comes from being betrayed. He has compartmentalized sex as something you perform at for a price. Its not him as a man imperfect and tender but he is thinking its all bullchit this talk about trust and intimacy. He also has built this wall that wont let you in completly. You confirmed his fears by going out on him. But they were his fears that started it when he changed right after marriage when he witheld SF from you in the mystery that he wouldn't explore or admit was his problem/baggage. He is a hard working respectable man who loves you the best he thinks he can, and only takes from you what he thinks he deserves because he doesn't feel worthy. He knows somethings wrong with this but instead of getting his pain addressed he sometimes takes it out on you ,women in general or relationships alltogether. All while doing his best to be the best man he can in a profession world that takes pride on practical knowledge and facts, and loves to see others screw up because they all fear that they are screw ups too. Well most of them anyways. Such fools, they don't see that we all are screw-ups and thats what we all have in common, we learn from mistakes and wisdom comes from pain when we don't listen.
My heart goes out to both of you. SB made the greatest point that all of us learn in life. We have no powere over others like our own decisions not to "buy into" others behavior. We can only separate ourselves from bad behavior and yes, we can rise above what others do to us and treat them as we would want to be treated if we were so blind. LOve the unlovly so to speak. Isn't that a Godly attribute and the gift that God gave us when he would not compromise truth with the deception that we were not worth loving? Did God say we would never fail? Did he say he would change the world for us because circumstances were so hard for us? Or did he say reguardless of our mistakes or temptations to escape he would provide a way out? Wise counsel is the way out and the past must be put behind for him. He needs to forgive himself and you if he hopes to have a life that is not full of bitterness. "Bitterness is a poision that destroys its container" is written on a piece of paper on my wall along with "Guilt is a prison that imprisons its jailor".

But we are human so we need to work at trust and it will take time to rebuild it with him and yourself W02. The main thing ppl learn on this site is to own thier mistakes and change themselves first. We all need to live in the real world and its consequecnces and to be free of the chains of blaming others for our problems or pain is a the best gift. Then we can live in truth not just for ourselves but the people who are watching us, just like our kids are allways watching us and learn by our example you Hubby will see your change andcalmness as you find peace for your past without blaming others for why you screwwed up. You have admitted this and i think you are understanding why more and more as you read here and the MB materials. You just follow the advice of SB and Hubby will get what he wants from you. A women who is happy to be around him. Takecare of his seriuos physical need of diet and start feeding him the right foods in the right amounts with a happy heart and it will work wonders in time.

You can't make him open up but your behavior will be loving him and thats all you can do. If he gets angry and starts a fight you don't participate. God willing he will come around in time.

He seems to have a problem even admitting he has triggers doesn't he?

He still hasn't processed the past stuff and put it behind. Maybe he isembarressed to feel that way. Like he shouldbe tougher or something. Like he should be "over it" for everyones sake. It would be great if you could reach him on this but maybe a IC could.


You have the right idea W02

SSO

The collective wisdom on this forum sometimes just blows me away. And that post of yours is a prime example of both insight and help. With over 700 posts in 4 months, you obviously are not holding back and that is a good thing.

Larry

I'm not sure if i am about to make any sense but I am going to try....I have in the past asked Hubby to forgive me, time and time again he repeats "I can't forget". I don't expect him to "forget this" I just want him to ...I want him to feel better, I don't want him to feel this pain all the time. I don't think he feels it ALL the time, I think he tries to block it, because may be he is thinking he needs to be "over it already". I'm not sure if he understands what "forgiving me" really means. I am not sure what it means for that matter.

Is anyone familar with the song "Sunspot Baby" by Bob Seger? Hubby identifies with that song...and with it upbeat as it is, thinking about it makes me want to cry. He says it's what the first ex did to him. Then I start thinking about what I did to him and I start the whole "how could I's " over again.

He gets put off when I try to forgive myself, he has said I act like nothing has ever happened. Then I think how am I supossed to act? Does he want to see me torturing myself?I really want us both to heal. I feel like I am branded, when the fog lifted I felt like I needed to go around with a large Aon my chest for the rest of my life.

Can bipolar have physical symptoms? I just feel this tightness that stretches from one armpit across my chest to the other armpit and I am starting to feel extremely antsy and it's like my body is just wanting to jump out of my skin. I am wanting to just be outside, but I don't want to be around people or talk to other people. If I have to talk to someone I've Facebooked them or texted them, I just can't seem to make myself be socialble...it wasn't too bad going to the grocery store this evening, but it wasn't what I would call enjoyable. My children distracted me from a lot of the unpleasant feelings. Sometimes I am just so grateful for them so I can immerse myself in dealing with them so I can ignore some of these "I just can't handle going anywhere" feelings. I swear this is what a drug high gone wrong feels like.

OK. go find a therapist, a psychiatrist and rule out anything like bi-polar. You have to see if you are mentally healthy, and if not, get mentally healthy, if you want to try and heal the relationship.

02

Calm down. You are afflicted with stress.

Of course he can't forget. But he can forgive. And the way you say you are acting, he now has someone who will be loyal to him for life if he will allow you to be.

See, it works like this: we are who we are because of all the crap that has smacked us that was either our fault or not, doesn't matter. Most of us are molded by the bad stuff than the good stuff. Again, doesn't matter.

If, along the way, we have somehow developed a moral compass, and a sense of right and wrong, we are fortunate. If somehow we develop a life commitment to do no harm, unless attacked, then we are indeed fortunate.

And if so fortunate, does it really matter how we got how we are? There is no reset button in life. And what happens to us and what we do cannot be changed, it is a part of who we are for life. So if now we can consider ourselves as a good person, then we have something in which we can take pride, for that description does not apply to many of those we rub against in our daily life.

Take pride in who you are, not necessarily how you got there. And if you take pride in yourself because of what you have learned and who you have become, he will sense this and eventually appreciate you. Uh, frankly, or he may never get it because he is incapable. But that is beyond your ability to do for him. He has to do it for himself. And from his history, he ought to, just this once.

Larry

If you are freaking out and have terrible changeable moods, it could be chemical and you could get it checked out and feel much better treated. I am talking from personal experiance with depression. After I got help I was able to calm down and cope better with everything. This may not be a problem for you, your changing moods, as long as you dont do anything bad to yourself or find it gets in the way of you being able to have happiness.

I will be going to the MC on Thu. He is also good about figuring out mood disorders and other things since he also works in other areas...he seems to have lots of expertise in the MC field as well as other areas.
I am very much looking forward to Thu, because I don't know how much longer I can take being this way. It's ALWAYS worse in the spring.
Something weird happened to me last night, I was putting lotion on my feet and it smelled so familiar and I couldn't exactly remember the smell, but it triggered feelings and I could just remember being happy when I smelled this(it was like my body remembered before my mind did, that was really weird). After several minute s I finally remembered it, I had a perfume or something that smelled exactly like my lotion and I remembered going to the Zoo as a teenager with my family and then going to youth group that night and I remember being happy about it...I wish I could remember why I was so happy to go to youth group. Why would that moment be important...why would I be excited about seeing a crush that had no interest in me? Idk I was 16 at this time and I don't really remember my crazy lines of thought from back then too well.

Today is a new day and I am going to work on no AOs and no yelling back. Hubby kind of made me feel bad, but I was able not to say to much in the moment and I can talk to him about it later when he comes home. Last night he had been he had been going "shh" as a way to cut me off no matter what I was saying. I tried to ask him to stop and he'd cut me off with a "shh", then at some point he was poking me so I told him to leave me alone, I told him earlier about the way my skin felt but nonetheless he continues. I finally had had enough, I told him to leave me alone and to stop doing that. I wasn't yelling, but I was annoyed. This morning he told me that he laid in bed for 2 hours unable to sleep...I was trying to be flirty and told him he should have woken me and I could've helped him with that...he said that I had been too "itchy".I mean really!! The least little bit of behavior from me that he doesn't like and I am an "itch"? I can't be perfect all the time. I'm starting to feel like I have to be a stepford wife 100% of the time in order for him to be happy. I can't keep that up. In order for me to keep that up 100% of the time would be to have each on every EN met all of the time and that isn't going to happen any time soon.

Just venting Those four little kisses on his work days aren't cutting it anymore...I crave more affection from him then he's willing to give and I'm beginning to get frustrated and I don't want to be frustrated at all.

Sometimes sleeping in the guest room leads to more and better sex. Maybe you do not get so used to being around someone (too familiar) Also you get a better sleep and then have energy and desire for sex.

His sleeping/sex issues could be:

1. dAylite saving time
2. His diabetes
3. His weight issues, watch DR OZ on TV
4. His unhappiness at the job
5. The lack of relaxing time with you
6. Lack of quiet time
7. The difference in energy between you and him
8. You yammering at him irritating him (you might be a talker and he might be more quiet type)

Are you suggesting I sleep in another bed? Working on weight issues, and diabetes are S L O W L Y coming under control. I agree with the job unhappiness. and #6. Not sure about the difference in energy, we are both laid back, but he is more so than I.

Yammering...I'll have to ask him if he thinks I "yammer" at him.

The way to get more "active" is to just do it - get "active". Don't wait for the "feeling" to come, because it will likely never arrive. Start simple - a scheduled walk around a nearby park, for instance. SCHEDULE the time, and this should involve some POJA with your H.

It would be a great idea to schedule time for us to spend together, that would require more of his cooperation, something I don't have fully. I have a tiny bit since is willing to go to MC. Scheduling time doesn't work in that sense because of his work week, and if he sees an opening he is going to be tinkering with his car. I go out there with him sometimes. It's just that I'm trying to learn stuff about it and all I do is get frustrated cuz I want to know exactly what he's talking about ...it's getting better. He just rather work on his car than spend time with me, I've tried scheduling things and we never do it. I am all for doing that, I just think we should do something neutral such as a walk. I sometimes think he is never going to be on board with the POJA. I have to be the one that gives in, but if you ask him I'm the one that gets everything I want. I just hope the MC can help us.

Oh, I asked him if he thought I yammered...he said I did, but he says he yammers at me as well...

W02,
Do you remember my first post? I was hammering everyone about what had happened to you when you were abducted and raped when you were young, You were traeted pretty crappy by a string of guys and it seemed to me that you had come to expect it in your intimate relationships. I was hinting about how much you have explored what that did to you in the past. How much control you hoped for or expected your significant other to initiate. I am not saying all this is your fault. Please know that up front. I am just wondering how safe you feel inside, just being. ...Sometimes we think we have a handle on our past experiences but we need to look back and make sure. How did Hubby react when he heard about how you were treated then? How much does he understand that trauma? What would he say about it now?
I bet he was ticked when he first heard it. I bet he wanted to go and rip those punks lungs out for treating you that way. I bet he felt like a Knight in shining armor and a place of refuge for you when he first was with you.
Then after he got married to you his fear of failure set in, he couldn't help it, it was the very thing he wanted to be healed from but you had no idea that he wanted you to make up for past pain he had experienced or that he expected you to, niether did he. He couldn't be afraid and open up all that to you. He needed to be strong and your place of refuge now. That was his purpose and the honorable thing to do. His only hope for redemtion for whatever he did in the past to be so betrayed by the others. So he held it in and suffered in fear.

And you, You were going to never, ever, betray this sweet man. This honorable hard working hurt man. When the mystery of why he witheld tenderness from you was never explored or brought to the surface you wondered why. Why were you rejected? What was wrong with you? Was there something wrong with this passion you had? You had strong desires and wanted to be sexually possessed by this man who you respected and married. Taken in every way not just sexually but that that is a very very big part of it in a healthy marriage. What happened? Why were you rejected now? Did he think sex was dirty or that because you wanted it you were?
Was that some of the feelings and thoughts going on just before you rebelled against what must have been a scary place he lived in and you too. Are those some of the reasons you gave up on the marriage vows and sought out the release of animal lust that you were driven by in the hopes that you were not crazy after all? You needed to be wanted W02, You needed to be possesesed physically. You wanted to be possesesed by Hubby but he was already terribbly afraid he wasn't up to the job and the fear had overtooken him. He wouldn't talk about it and hoped it would go away without having to admit he was afraid.
You blew up and out and sought attention that you desparatly needed and still need. You can control it now and have matured. Now you know there is an answer and are seeking it because the love you have for your hubby is very powerful and you won't give up.

If this is a good summary and I have struck a nerve then I will take atvantage ofthe situation to tell you this.

You and your husband have a unique opportunity to love each other with a depth beyond most people. You have a chance to really heal each other so you can have the kind of love that is unshakable. Its not gonna be a business deal but it will be rooted in real issues and honesty between each other. It will take accountability and concern for each other and both of your issues as you spend time in tendernes and understanding of each others needs. You are both human beings and you cannot save each other. Thats just slavery anyways. That is like saying "Let me tell you what to do and feel and I won't love you unless you perform"
What you can do is poor out your heart to each other agian and continue to learn about how much you need guidance and help in this thing we call life. You can fight for each other to be free and feel safe and get all the good things you both know are out here. You can make sound, calm, loving decisions to treat each other like you don't need them to love you, you love them anyway. All you need is for them to respect tha you are human too. Full of fears and guilt and insecuritys.
That is what HUbby needs to do. He lashes out at you and pushes your buttons and its not right. He is someone that has preserved his frustration at the past and you have become the unwilling victem of his baggage. Today, now, this instant is a chance for him to put it behind him and trust something higher than his experiance and past pain for his future. Its easy to critisize. He works with ppl who rise above others by how they pick apart everyone else. He is foolish if he really buys into that but .."Its hard to soar with the eagles if you are flying with Turkeys"...

If you can get him to open up with someone.. to admit he is scared and hurt, and if you can both get to work on your marriage and personal issues and baggage. Mostly if you can forgive yourselves and each other as time goes by and you forget thepain and triggers that make up many ppls lives.

You can recover and have a marriage that validates...

1 Peter 1:7
That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

How do you only quote small portions of a reply ???

you click quote.

then you hilight between the brackets [ ] text you wanna not quote text you wanna quote [ ] and delete the part you dont want.

If you want to quote different parts you can open the thread in another window and cut and paste it over. or

you can use the whole quote and cut out what you dont want to adrress and when you go to the full reply window use a different color text and comment underneath each part .


Hope that helps. play around with it. You can delete any posts you make a mistake with.

I use a different method that works for me than SSO uses.

I highlight the text I want to quote. Then I go to the reply window. Everywhere you see a {, that means a lower case bracket.

I type {quote} except with brackets. Sometimes I will type {quote=nameofposter} at the end of the quote after I have messed with it, I type {/quote} The forward slash stops the quotation. This is useful with loooong posts and I only want to quote a little bit.

{color:#990000}put text in here{/color} Clicking on the color thing in the reply window gives this to you and you can insert what you want to say in between like I did. The window will pop back to the top when you do it, so you have to scroll back down.

You can always quote someone in a test window and see how they do stuff. Click on quote underneath their signature.

Larry