ML, you think divorce is the right answer?

hh, have you ever clearly told BH how you are feeling and your thoughts of D or are you just letting him stomp on you without saying much/anything?

4 yrs out, his behavior is unacceptable and was a long time ago.

If your husband is abusing you, then separation is in order. I am concerned that this has gone on so long.

This is an excuse for tolerating abuse? C'mon, HTH. You have been avoiding conflict by doing nothing and are now complaining about the consequences.

If you are going to avoid conflcit you have to be willing to suffer those consequences since that is a CHOICE. You have CHOSEN to live like this.

I don't know if you have sons or daughters but regarding the effect of divorce...could it be any worse than what they're seeing now? If you have sons, they are learning how to treat women, and if you have daughters, they are learning how a woman deserves to be treated. If both Choice A and Choice B are "bad", be careful that you don't choose the one that's the worst.

tl

black raven, if I bring it up (that it was 4 years ago, I've been totally tranparent since, etc) he says that I am not repentant, I am minimizing what I've done, I've "reset the clock to day 1 again." If I mention forgiveness, he says, "don't preach to me, whore." If I mention thoughts of D he says fine. I tend to bring it up (divorce) as a "shock" thing- wanting him to say, "Oh, no, no, I don't want that, let's have a happy marriage." WHich is stupid of me, so I have been trying not to throw that around. I cry, freak out, etc.

Like today we're supposed to leave to see my family. In the past, he's made it so hard to go- threats, etc. We went once right after they moved near us and he said, "now I know what it is like to be without my kids, and so I think it's fine if we divorce." Like being with my family for a couple days warrents that behavior.

I KNOW it needs to stop and I think I'm finally ready to actually do something about it. The question is, what? I think....think....I am ready to face the consequences even if they're divorce.

I don't want to insist on counceling, as I know that will be a deal breaker, at least now. What can be a good first step? I'm tired of being threatened with divorce if I don't have SF with him enough, or visit my family for a couple days, or haven't lost enough weight. I'm emotionally and physically exhausted.

Stop thinking out loud - he calls your bluff each and every time you speak. He KNOWS you will not follow through. It is all lip service. He is not scared of you, he wants you to be scared of him.

Do not "insist" on anything from him. Take care you what YOU need to take care of on your end and then do it. He will never believe you unless you DO something. You are also teaching your kids that this abuse is ok in M and that sitting around and taking it is ok. Neither are ok. If you want your kids to have any chance of not repeating the same mistakes you and your H are making, you MUST act. Let this be a lesson for your kids.

What will your next steps be? If you are ready to face the consequences, what is the plan?

Being ready is a CHOICE. A choice to ACT decisively.

ok, i will play groundhog day and post this AGAIN:

Using resentment as a way to control and punish a spouse

I'm convinced that what's kept the resentment of S.R.'s husband alive for so many years is that he has found it to be an effective way to control and punish her whenever she doesn't do what he wants. Whenever they have a fight, he brings it up, and it causes her such guilt that it gives him a decided advantage in winning the argument.

By this time, I don't believe that her affair is the problem that she thinks it is. Instead, it is an issue that her husband is using to get the upper hand in his relationship with her. It probably shows up the most whenever she has been reluctant to have sex with him. It throws her off balance whenever he mentions it, and makes her feel guilty, wanting to make it up to him somehow. He may also bring it up whenever she is winning in a power struggle he is having with her.

What she describes to me in her letter is abuse, pure and simple. There is no excuse for the way her husband keeps bringing up her moment of weakness she experienced years ago. He is disrespectful and abusive.

I suggest that she look him right in the eye and say to him, "Listen Buster, do you love me? Do you want me to love you? Do you want to spend the rest of your life with me? If the answers to any of those questions is 'yes' you sure are going about it the wrong way. You are not doing things that I admire, you're doing things that I find disgusting!"

What if he says, "Fine, then lets just get a divorce and end it all."

To that I would say, "It's up to you. I married you for life, but if you want a divorce, it's your call. If you want to be in a love relationship with me, however, you're going to have to treat me much better than you have been treating me. You must never again bring up my affair, and if you are upset with me, you will have to treat me with respect until we can solve the problem. If you are upset with our sexual relationship, I want us to discuss it as adults and solve it with mutual respect. I refuse to be treated like this, especially by the man I love."

My advice to her husband is to never mention her affair again. It's a good example of one of the enemies of good conversation, dwelling on past mistakes. Whenever you keep bringing up your spouses past mistakes, you not only make your conversations incredibly unpleasant, but it cannot possibly lead to a resolution of a conflict you may be discussing. And as soon as his resentment doesn't pay him any dividends -- no longer helps him get his way -- he will find that it hardly ever occurs to him.

Hanging on to an unpleasant thought because it helps us somehow is what psychologists call "secondary gain." It means that even though the thought is unpleasant, it gets you something you need, so your mind keeps it around for its usefulness. There are many unpleasant thoughts that have this characteristic, and I have helped many people let them go by helping them destroy the usefulness of the thought. Making sure that S.K.'s husband never gets what he wants by bringing up her affair will help him overcome his resentment. Coping with Infidelity: Part 4
Overcoming Resentment


http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5062_qa.html

hth, you need to protect yourself and your children from abuse if your BH is acting like that. You should insist on counseling and not being threatened with this or that...if it is a dealbreaker then so be it. As a BW, I made the mistake of not INSISTING on MB counseling and here I am dealing with another dday. I hold my H 100% accountable but I regret that I did not insist on MB counseling regardless. WH still could have chosen to have another A but it may have saved me from additional pain and wasted time.

I don't think you want to be a punching bag forever...nobody does. As a BS, I get your BH pain and anger but punishing you is not healthy. What you describe is far beyond an occassional "understandable" AO or DJ and being 4 yrs out...that is just scary. How bad does it have to get before you save yourself and your kids?

HTH, it is up to you to state your boundaries and explain them to your husband. Tell him: this is what it will take to keep me in this marriage. [lay out your conditions] Then tell him it is up to him, but be assured that you will not be tolerating his abuse one more day.

My plan is that the next time he pulls that ace out of the hole to say that I love him and do not want a divorce, but can't keep having this held as a weapon against me (maybe could use some help on the phrasing).

Then go to another room to sleep?

And he may be willing to just divorce, and I will have to be fine with that.

Hard hard hard.

Why wait? I would not wait until emotions are running high to address this. In his anger, he will not hear you. Don't wait until you/he are hanging off the cliff to warn him of the dangerous cliff.

No. Sit him down tonight and say:

"Listen Buster, do you love me? Do you want me to love you? Do you want to spend the rest of your life with me? If the answers to any of those questions is 'yes' you sure are going about it the wrong way. You are not doing things that I admire, you're doing things that I find disgusting!"

What if he says, "Fine, then lets just get a divorce and end it all."

To that I would say, "It's up to you. I married you for life, but if you want a divorce, it's your call. If you want to be in a love relationship with me, however, you're going to have to treat me much better than you have been treating me. You must never again bring up my affair, and if you are upset with me, you will have to treat me with respect until we can solve the problem. If you are upset with our sexual relationship, I want us to discuss it as adults and solve it with mutual respect. I refuse to be treated like this, especially by the man I love."

If he doesn't agree, then ask him to get the hell out.

Exactly! He's got you backed up to the edge of a cliff and you're afraid that the slightest movement by you will push you over the edge. So what do you do in this dangerous situation? You turn around and you face your offender. You square your shoulders and you say, "Enough. I love you and I want to be married to you but I also don't want to suffer anymore of this abuse. Either you work with me on our marriage and never bring up the affair again or you go ahead and divorce me. I'm done with the threats." Then you walk around him and lead him off that cliff. If he follows, GREAT, if not, your life will still be better. He does it because you ALLOW it. Stop the madness now!

What does going to another bedroom accomplish? Maybe, given how he's been able to abuse you for years, this seems like a really radical step to take, but all he has to do is follow you to another room. How about making yourself actually inaccessible to him for the night? Then you might get some sleep.

tl

HTH, leave your pistol in the bedroom and pledge not to punch him out, ok? If you feel like sucker punching him or slapping him, just count to 10. You don't want to land in jail!

But make sure he knows WHO IS IN CHARGE NOW. HIS ABUSIVE DAYS ARE OVER.