I DO understand.

I understand that you two have never fully implemented MB and that you have never recovered your M.

I understand that your H is wayward and a freeloader/renter. You have admitted this much yourself earlier in the thread.

My advice is the same as I posted previously which is basically in line with what Dr Harley told you...it has nothing to do with "not understanding"...

Gdar, if you do everything, he's not going to take responsibility. If HE doesn't want to take responsibility he won't. You can't make him. And, reminding him for a week can be considered insulting (probably a huge LB), especially if his cognitive abilities are sound.

So.

That leaves you to change the dance. How else could you have handled the paperwork, and made it his responsibility? "Sorry, honey, it's just not possible for me to run out to your office today. Let's work on a solution.." Let's say your husband says, "No, it's your fault, your responsibility, your the poor wife." You can remove yourself from the conversation with boundaries. "Oh, ouch. It sounds like now may not be a good time to talk about this. Let me know when you are ready to."

I huge assumption, on my end, here, but I think you really do want to stop spinning your wheels with your husband. So, stop spinning them. Boundaries can be your friend, but you need to practice them, and keep them. Meaning, it doesn't work if you assert your boundary once, and then cave the next two times.

Plan B is the biggest boundary you can assert. If you aren't ready/willing to go there, fine. But, you can begin to take babysteps with smaller boundaries. There are some good examples of board members, here, making boundaries that weren't Plan B or nothing.

When I assert (and have asserted) my boundaries, I don't feel like a victim anymore. I know I have choice. I'm more willing to act from a position of strength, rather than reacting to my emotions. Honestly, I like myself a lot better when I don't react to my emotions.

I have slowly been working on them for myself (more than anything). I am not noticing him noticing. Now it seems we are more stale than we were before. I am completely in Withdrawal, which (I am rereading the LB book) I have highlighted "Don't Get Here" above that chapter. I have been in Conflict for so long, it eventually wore me down and I crossed over. He has not even noticed, but seems to be there now, too.

So I guess that means he would be ripe for another EA. Sometimes I feel like I do not even care if he had one.

But I am tired of doing all of the marital work. Like you said, I cannot make him do anything. Having an unhappy wife is no longer motivation for him to do something positive. When he does, however, I do brighten up and make it VERY obvious how appreciative I am. Thing is, that MIGHT be once a week, and it is brief.

Problem is now, it is starting to affect the kids. We do not argue in front of them (actually we don't argue at all), but he will make comments in front of them when he is upset.

Like yesterday morning when he snipped at me when I asked him why he was just telling me he would be out every evening this week with functions/meetings and he snidely told me that he did, but I forgot. He does this to the older kids, too. He is consistently forgetting to inform me/the kids about things, then when we ask about it, he gets mad at us and claims that *we* forgot. Of course that does happen sometimes, it is natural to forget things here and there, but if you asked him - he is Mr. O&H and no one remembers. Its everyone else, not him.

Then this morning his phone rang and our 4 yr old answered it. Well, she pushed the answer button, but did not say hello. I had just told her not to answer it when it rang, but she had already pressed the button. I hung it up. When it started to ring, I told him it was ringing, but he did not respond (though he heard me). The call ended up being from the asst. super of the district (his immediate boss) and he was ticked because our daughter answered it when he was already "supposed to be at work". He regularly gets upset when HE is regularly late getting out of the house. No one has control of when he gets up, gets out the door but him, but he gets stressed out, rushing around, grumbling and making comments about being late in a way that blames the rest of us.

Wow, he just emailed me an apology for yesterday morning, then followed by "I am extremely stressed at work this week, I have a Powerpoint to prepare and present at 2:45 and 2 parent meetings before then".

I do not even know how to respond to that. It is always the same (when he rarely apologizes) reason. Work. Stressed at work. Too much to do. So he gets to continually be short, distant, rude, noncommunicative because of his job.

Gdar,

You've been around this place long enough to know that you cannot make somebody else do something. You cannot change your husband. You can only define and enforce your boundaries and worry about keeping the weeds out of the lawn on your side of the fence. He has to deal with his weeds. If he isn't going to keep the yard nice and pretty like you want on his side then you have to decide what you are going to do about it (ie. Plan B possibly).

Sorry to say this but from the outside you seem like the classic whiner to me. You moan and groan about all the things that your husband is or is not doing but you aren't taking a stand to change the situation. You outright dismiss Plan B as an option. Ok. So what is your plan then? What are you doing to change the dynamics of your situation? You are being argumentative with others on your thread for what reason? I understand that you are frustrated, but nothing is going to change unless you change. You seem to be quite comfortable with your 'role' in the marriage of the unappreciated wife. If you aren't comfortable then DO something about it!!

It really is up to you. It's that simple....it's just not easy.

It certainly is not easy.

I do not feel I am being argumentative on my post. There is someone who keeps going back to something that happened a year, 2 years ago that are not weighing on my current situation, I acknowledge that.

I just feel there has got to be something other than Plan B to create a change. I just do not know how to get there, since I feel (other than Plan B) I have tried everything.

Yes, most of us with entrenched conflict wish something less than "nuclear war" would break the stalemate. But that doesn't mean there is anything else that would work. Heck, even the nuclear options of Plan B, affair or divorce don't always work. Sometimes one's partner is simply unwilling to change "no matter what". And there are plenty of cases where it required Plan B or Plan D before a reluctant spouse realized the problem really is "that bad" and that the unhappy spouse really was prepared to leave.

So you do need to consider how long you are willing to invest in searching for solutions that may not exist. Because there is no guarantee that they do. Otherwise Dr. Harley would not have needed to write the "When Is It Time To Call It Quits" article.

I can sense he wants to do better, he just never winds up doing it. Starting this afternoon, he has two solild weeks off to be at home with us (we always do very well during vacations together) and he apologized for being so hard to live/deal with because of his hectic career. I always get these apologies, which I DO very much appreciate, because I know in his heart he does not want me to hurt. Problem for me is, I need a husband consistently, not when he gets a break from work. I need a continual connection, not just on the weekends and not when he is home on a break.

It amazes me how we come back together, everything fits when we have time to be together, and had how lightening fast it disappears once he returns to work. Like a switch.

I anticipate these next two weeks is going to be great, they always are, but I need more. He knows I need more. He seems powerless to give it to me. He says as much. I cannot think of anything more motivating to continue than how we are together when we have that time. It just never lasts. Nothing ever lasts.

Leaving him, or having him leave (Plan B) I do not feel will work. Doing that to my kids, dragging them through that just to "prove a point", if you will, to protect ME, to enforce MY boundaries seems selfish, though I know it is not supposed to be.

It is obvious that my advice/feedback is not wanted on this thread so I will move on.

I do however want to address this since anyone familiar with the thread will know this is directed at me:

First of all, I am not the only one who thought your thread would be better served over in SAA, many others thought that, going back all the way to when you first requested it be moved.

Secondly, the thread speaks for itself, but I think it is pretty clear that I was not necessarily "going back" to the EA two years ago ~ I was moreso addressing the fact that your H has a wayward mentality, meaning selfishness, poor boundaries and making the M and your needs are not a priority etc etc. I do think acknowleding that would be helpful in deciding how to proceed for you and I was hoping I could help you get there ...

Anyway, good luck to you, I do mean that.

I have this feeling that you have not yet looked at the TIME frames carefully, searched for time to spend together with him, and figured out how you can try to eliminate his workaholic ways.

1. Do a time study for a week of each family members time, what they do during that time, and what they seem to want to spend thier time on. For example:

~Husband's time spent-


Monday 4AM- Wakes up
5AM- getting ready for work
7AM- drives to work
8am-5PM- at work
5:30 PM- gets home
6PM -eats dinner (1/2 hour)
6:30-10Pm- plays on computer, watches TV
10:05 PM- Bed


I would carefully look at each 15 minute block of time for him. Then observe him for a week and write down what he does with his time if you leave him alone. It seems he has about 4 hours in the evenings at home. Or less if he stays late at work. Does he prefer to work at home on his laptop? Does he like certain TV shows? How much time does he spend at home in an average week? How much time are you willing to ask him for in the evenings.

Once you get a true handle on this logically, like a man thinks, then you can show him the chart and present him with the options. For example you will be able to say: "Honey, there is 4 hours a night you are home. I would like two of those hours just to myself." Something like that. Then, you two will have to experiment for a week or two to see how that new plan is working.

If he flat out says NO WAY to you asking for his time in this manner, then I would say you have a HUGE PROBLEM that you need marriage counseling for.

I would do a time study, in writing for every family member. The reason I say this is that children and other family members affect a man's time.

*If kids are making noise and being demanding, then your husband's time at home will be severely affected.

* Many other things could be affecting his time at home with you.

* Perhaps he is bored without his blackberry and laptop when he is home. Is it boring to be JUST with you and the kids???? Is it so boring it drives him away to use laptop or blackberry to amuse himself?

There are a lot of complicated factors to FAMILY TIME USAGE that will affect you getting your emotional needs met. Before you toss in the towel, dont throw that baby out with the bathwater but instead analyze it logically (and in writing) like an employer would when looking for a solution for a problem.

Then, and only then, will you be able to clearly see a solution that will make the entire family happy and content!

I have to agree that he proved he was not ready for marriage at that time two or three years into your marriage when he made out with that other teacher on the retreat. And then kept contacting her. That has got to hurt. Have you fully recovered from his infidelity???

Thank you for the clarification, I appreciate that. I just felt my thread over there was out of place, being my current situation is HNHN related, rather than being entrenched in current infidelity, if that makes sense.

Thank you, Stella. I very much appreciate that game plan, if you will.

Yes, I believe he is bored at home without the laptop or constant texting with his best friend.

Guess where he is right now? On an overnight at his buddy's house.

Guess where he was yesterday? On a 2+ hour lunch with a friend of his. We had just walked in the door from dropping off my minivan (with the car seats still in it) at the shop for day's worth of repairs. The moment we walk in the door, I hear him on the phone "sure, I will let W know and see you in a bit". Then he informed me his friend wanted him to meet him for lunch. I didn't even respond. He had been telling me since the DAY he started his Winter break that he would steam clean the carpets (we have my family coming over for our Christmas tomorrow). Carpets still are not done. Anyway, I did not respond because I was afraid I would AO (which we are not AO people, but I am at my wits end here), so off he went. No clue where, how it went, just that 2.5 hours later he came back home and we haven't had a conversation since.

Some Winter Break.

I am not going to beg my H to spend time with me. Now that he HAS the time, so far (outside of date night the first night that we had a ton of fun on) it has not been spent on us.

He has: gone on runs, hit the gym with my son to shoot hoops, left twice to go to the store that turned into more than an hour, gone out to lunch and then left at 1 to have a sleepover and get drunk with a buddy.

So far I have: gone to the grocery store, been to the orthodontist with my son, dropped my van off for repairs. Other than that, I have not left the house. After all, I have 4 kids.

GDAR, If my husband does what yours does, I would divorce him. Clearly your husband likes activities that single people do. He prefers activities OTHER than being with his wife and family. He likes to party like he was single again.

I am sorry but I would divorce him. He is a real creep. Sorry he took the chance to have a family but now he does not prefer to be around them.

Why would anyone want to shampoo the carpeting rather than go out partying without the wife and kids. Carpeting is boring and you should get a company to come do it instead.

But if he loved the wife he would shampoo the carpeting or at least have an activity with the wife instead of getting drunk with his guy friends.

He is a teenager and you are an adult
He is a partier and you are a responsbile parent
He has not sown all his oats yet and you have.
He gets to go out and do whatever he wants and you are stuck with the kids at home.

It is not fair, and you accidently married an adolescent.

This man is clearly bored with you and the children. He prefers being around other people. I would divorce him for this.

I agree, Stella. To some extent, I agree.

I used to have a service come in and steam the carpets. He was the one that decided it would be more cost effective to do it ourselves, so we have access to a machine - that has been sitting in his side of the bed, literally IN HIS WAY to get out to bed for well over a week. Clothes get tossed over it.

I suppose it was no accident, Stella. I married the old me. The woman I was when I was married before. I was selfish and had no care in my marriage (on my side of the street). I did what I wanted and my H obliged. He was happy, he doted on me, he took care of the kids while I went out and had fun. My punishment? My fate? I am now married to the old me.

I do not like them apples at all.

I would like to add, so it does not seem I am crapping all over him, as if he does nothing - he has done the dishes twice, cooked dinner twice and picked me up from the dealership when I had to take the van in.

I feel I try hard to look at these things and appreciate them, but I find myself instead, focusing on the b.s. that he is NOT doing. I cannot help it right now. Usually we get these breaks and we do great. Really great. So far, almost a solid week into it, and this is unlike any other break before it. It is not great. I feel anxious, he is doing what pleases him and then throwing a few chores in to say he is doing his part (I know this is a DJ, but history is history, as it repeats itself).

I am not in love with him anymore. I feel a twinge here and there when I look at his face, but the longer it goes unreciprocated, the more detached I become. I love him, but not romantically. I went into this eyes wide open, but I feel really duped and stupid.

What became of the other husband? Why did you get divorced?

I just read this from another post:

What can you do to take care of yourself? You know that you are making a choice to do everything.

Where can you cut back? More stuff means more stuff to maintain.

How can you streamline things? For example, for me, bill paying takes 10 minutes a month, thanks to computers. When I'm on my game, I'll make a meal and double the recipe, freezing the rest. Or I'll use my crockpot and have something else cook for me. We also don't spend much time deep cleaning because we try to maintain the dirtiest rooms nearly daily. It doesn't take but 2 minutes to wipe a sink and toilet down with a cleaning wipe. Your children are also old enough to help. Kids love swiffers. Your 2 yo can get baseboards and places that are hard for you to reach very easily.

Can you hire a mother's helper? Can you get your groceries delivered?

I'm the breadwinner, and yes, still the mom. While I'm not pregnant, I work multiple jobs, go to school, and volunteer both in and out of my kid's school. I still buy the clothes, presents, coordinate social activities, plan birthday parties, etc, etc, etc. It's not an easy road.

I find that I'm more resentful of the situation when I'm not taking care of myself. Meaning, eating right, sleeping, resting.

And, when I'm resentful, my husband can smell the resentment in the air like 3 miles away. When that happens, well, my husband is really not likely to be my partner. In fact, he would rather not spend any time with me at all.

You can control if your taker is coming to the table all the time because you aren't taking care of yourself.

I hear the urgency for you to figure out where life is headed. But, I ask you this..In these next two weeks, between now and after New Years, could you let the issue go? I don't believe this is rug sweeping. In reality, there's not a whole lot you would be able to accomplish-meaning actions from "the talk" during the holidays. Places do close, people do go on vacation. I think of it in terms of not letting your anxiety rule your life.

How about, instead, you concentrate on simply being present this holiday season? Why not make it enjoyable for yourself and your family? This will be the last Holiday season as a family of 4. And, frankly, you don't have many more years of Santa left with your oldest. (One, maybe 2 max), if you do that sort of thing with your kids.

And, here's where you could talk to your husband. My husband and I STILL talk about the tv specials we loved as kids. We talk about movies that are coming out, how the local sports teams are doing. What about going to see Christmas lights and then putting the kids to bed early and you guys play a board game?

So what if you have done all of that, and nothing from your spouse? I feel I have tried it all and?