Well. My question to you, Andy, is why you're just now finding a picture of OM's butt when it's been on her phone for a week??? Are you not snooping???

Yep, lg has a great idea - get that on WW's FB, chop chop. Love the idea!

As for your WW, I can only advise, of course. And my advice is to tell her she leaves her job TODAY, or she leaves your house TODAY. You are on a fool's mission by continuing to allow C.

There are two reasons why I haven't given that ultimatum. 1-because she has no motivation to stay and won't come back 2-it will ruin all the hard work I've put in to make us get on again.
That strategy is just too aggressive. Kicking her out will be the end for sure. That's what I am trying to avoid. Plus I have no legal right to do that. She owns half of the flat. It's simply not an option.

I need a better strategy that combines making me look good whilst breaking them apart. Spending time together was helping, but I need more tactics! In the basic principles and letters it talks about competing with the OM until
it's time for plan B or plan A succeeds and NC is achieved. I'm sure some of you have been in the same situation. What worked for you? I hope you can see what I mean by being reluctant on the agressive approach.

You refuse to do what is needed to get her to do what is needed.

You cannot follow part of the MB plan and not do the rest. You cannot cherry-pick the plan.

It is time for Plan B, but Plan B requires her to move out, which you have already said you WON'T make her do.

Hi Andy,

How long do you plan on letting your WW and OM control your actions?

If WW has no motivation to stay and be in a monogamous marriage go to Plan B. Your Plan A will not be wasted. If WW doesn't see it now she may later during Plan B, it will not be wasted.

Reluctant on the "aggressive approach" sounds to me like you would prefer the doormat approach.

Andy, you have already had so many great posters helping you. I am just going to restate what needs to be stated again and again. The affair is NOT over until there is NO CONTACT.

You will NOT be wasting your Plan A by going into Plan B. There is no effective Plan B without a great Plan A. There is only so much time that a Plan A can be done until it becomes an un-effective Plan A and nullifies your Plan B effectiveness.

Hi Andy

How you doing?

Well Guys, since my last post ww has been away at a conference in las Vegas. I couldn't go along but instead ww brother went with her. He has been totally with me through this whole situation and also hates OM. He's staying in the same room as it's essentially free and also I know that she's not with him. Since leaving she has emailed and called every day regularly. She is still very stressed and is clearly lost with what to do. I have been trying to be supportive and offered her a way out if she wants, but she'd have to give up her job, NC and move to a new town. Before she wasn't interested but over the last few days thinking, she has decided at least to leave her job.

I see this as the first small sign of progress in plan A, so I won't be going to plan B
just yet. I know people will tell me otherwise but, as dr H says, plan B will be my last resort. It's been two and a half months now in plan A, trying to get NC. Maybe I'm over optimistic, but insee this as a faint glimmer of hope. She still says she can't go back, but that she doesn't want to lose me as a friend either. It's like she might start letting me in again soon so I can show her the attention she needs.

Thanks for keeping in touch and for all your support. Do people think I'm getting anywhere or am I just talking up false hope. I can't help thinking I'm on the brink of pursuading NC, and after that I think it will be a matter of time before she will at least try to save our marriage. I realise shell have a miserable period of withdrawal, but I'm ready for it. Am I being too much of a doormat (as you put it)? Andy

Did WW give you the reason for leaving her job?

I think you are getting somewhere for sure. Leaving her job is one step closer to you and farther away from OM. Also, if she leaves her job, can she afford to move out? Would she have to rely on you for Financial Support?

What would false hope be to you? Is that just another word for expectation?

Yeah, she said she wanted a new start, and wanted to get away from this whole mess. She rang last night for a chat and also said shed like to move to another town, but that would be without me. I've told her if she wants to quit her job now and try and work things out between us, I'll support her financially. At the moment though, she is looking at getting a new job.

Last night she also phoned especially to ask if we could go out together next week to a real nice restaurant that we have always loved. She also suggested we go to a cool bar we went to a few rimes and always said we'd go back to, but since this situation, she hasn't let me take her to these places.

By false hope, I didn't really mean expectation. At this stage I expect nothing. But i'm just worried I'm getting my hopes up over something that might be meaningless.

Sounds like a good opportunity to make some $$LB deposits. I'm happy to hear that you won't support her financially if she moves out, because if she does move out sounds like Plan B time. Keep up the Plan A, read Mark's tread if you're feeling Plan A frustrated.
Here's an overview:
Meet her EN
Avoid LBs.

It's ok to get your hopes up if you don't "expect" anything. Hope for recovery and take advantage of every opportunity to make $$LB deposits. Keep posting.

Thanks, Marks musings are really good, and really help with just getting my composure and sticking with the plan.

Since last time, WW has actually agreed to NC although it hasn't happened yet! Whether or not we end up together again - she now thinks that NC is the only way forward. She's stopped looking for a new flat near work and is now looking for a new job away from all of that side of her life and OM. We've talked about having a new house together in another part of the country.

Over the last few days after she got back from her business trip, a few things happened. Firstly, after she got back from she said that she missed me. We hugged loads, but no proper kissing. Later when we went out, we had a great time, and in the middle of a conversation she leaned over and kissed me on the lips and said 'I love you'. She had had a few drinks by that point, but it really took me by surprise. We hugged and continued laughing and joking around. Anyone who would have seen us together would have thought we are perfect together!

Until now, I've been so much concentrating how to get NC that I hadn't properly even thought about the massive problems that would lie beyond that. Since she kissed me, she has been letting me get more intimate with her. Nothing properly intimate, but she lets me give her a peck on the cheek, hug her and rub her back, and run fingers through her hair which she really likes. They all help me make little $$LB deposits, which is great.

There are two main problems to her officially making a proper pledge to try and get it together again. The main one is that she says she loves me but that she feels absolutely nothing sexual towards me. Its hurts. Obviously the passion had gone from our relationship before the A started, and thats how she remembers it. She's scared of making a commitment to get back if she's never going to feel that way towards me. I've said that it can only even start to come back after NC, and that all she can do is try. If she wants what we once had - she has nothing to lose by trying. Sadly, in my mind, I don't know how to restore those feelings for her either.

Secondly, the recurring problem of people judging her keeps coming up. I find it real difficult to explain to her that as soon as she faces a few awkward situations, it will be easily solved. Our friends and family want to see us work it out, but she doesn't believe it. She hates the thought of being judged for the rest of her life.

Here's hoping that NC really does happen (for the first time I actually really think it might happen) - and that we can solve these two massive problems in our relationship. Thanks for all your help - I can't believe I've even got as far as contemplating the next stage!

123,
I'm sorry I don't have time to review your history. I know you've been struggling for some time. I'm glad things seem to be turning around.

A couple of things come to mind when reading this post:
The romantic feelings are a product of a $LB balance which goes over a certain threshold. The theory is that you must keep making deposits until it gets there - no LB's (no expectations, no impatience). NO CONTACT is essential: she'll get everything she needs from you and always have the option of of the OM for other needs unless she's really committed to NC~ it's a fantasy world that she'll keep living in if you let her.

To me, this seems like a PERFECT opportunity and juncture in which to speak to Steve Harley. It will be money well spent. TEll your wife he can help assuage her fears about never developing that sense of intimacy again - beause he can, without a doubt.

opt

I agree 100% w/opt, Make an appointment w/the Harley's, the sooner the better.


I don't remember what you two once had, but my goal would be to have a better marriage than before. Something that is possible by following the Basic Concepts. Andy, remember, that it is YOUR responsibility to make your WW fall back in love w/you! Meet EN's and avoid LBs. Do you know her top ENs? I would guess that admiration is up there. Find them out and meet them!!! You're right, NC is only the FIRST step.

This is why I think that admiration is one of her top ENs. Seems to me that she wants other to have a good view of her, including you. Don't eduacate her or explain to her how to rebuild her relationships, let her work on that. I think that you could help by standing by/standing up for your WW when she may come under criticism or is depressed.

Keep up the good work, stay on course...

I totally agree! Definitely one of her top ENs. So is recreational time, so tonight I'm taking her somewhere she can dress up for and have a real good laugh (hopefully). Unfortunately though, her feelings for me seem to have faded a bit in the last week. I think it's because there still isn't definite NC. I asked her about going for marriage counselling again but she point blank refuses still.

She still hasn't agreed to give 'us' a proper chance and try again, and NC hasn't happened yet. Perhaps I should wait for counselling or do u think I should just get some on my own?

I think she understands the importance of NC but doesn't know for sure if she can ever love me properly again. I'm also finding this draining, but re-reading everyones posts helps me to fight on. I just hope she finds a job soon so we can get on with NC and hopefully start recovery. Until then I'm just gonna try and keep up the LB deposits. Thanks again.

Hi

So it's been a while since I've posted and I've been continuingwith plan A. It's definitely over between WW and OM and she has an interview in another town on Monday and we have been talking about moving to the new town together and starting again. We've been dating loads and having a great time too. Last night she was out with a friend �for a girly night and I went out with a very old friend of both of us. I told him what had happened between us. WW was mad about it and now says she doesn't want to move away with me - me telling my friend about it changes things. She says she doesnt want to have to deal with me constantly telling people, and so shes going to start her new life on her own. �Do I just continue with plan A and hope this blip goes away? We are so close to a new start, and total NC. What do people think I should do?��I really regret telling my friend now.

Hi guys, I know my topic isn't the hottest at the moment but I'm not sure how I'm doing - some things seem good, some bad.

I'm 99% sure the A is over and nothing is going on. NC is nearly here. WW has attended interviews in the new town which sound real promising and we're planning to move together. We're getting on real well and having fun. Last weekend was
Fantastic together, I felt almost like I had her back properly.

The one thing is, she still insists we can never be more than friends because she doesn't feel anything more towards me. With NC nearly achieved & a new start soon I'm going to be stuck in this limbo world where I'm still trying and seemingly meeting her ENs but we wont be properly together.

Is this usual, it doesn't seem to be mentioned much on Dr H's articles. I'm keeping up plan A, should I be more patient? I'm notnat 6 months yet.

Bump (sorry)

The affair is 99% over?, but NC has NOT been achieved? Of course she is still going to think of you as a friends. She is actually 100% in an affair if NC has not been established.

If you are
1) plan A'ing her
2) she enjoys you as a friend
3) NC has not been established (meaning that she is still in an affair)
4) You are low on LUs and perhaps bankrupt

Then you are set up for plan B.

It smells to me that you have been in plan doormat for sometime. A real recovery has significant changes. There are times when you might question things, but you can easily see by actions that you are falling back in love. There should be no I think of you as a friend speeches in recovery. This is all very fishy to me.

edit: You don't need to apologize when you want some help, or want your thread noticed. This is important to you, and bumping happens all the time.