Thanks, Hitch. I'm sure she did find it difficult and I'm sure she just doesn't know what to do in those situations...I really don't either. We were with a friend of my wife's and our son was playing with another friend so I didn't want to just up and go immediately. But, we left pretty quickly.

I definitely try to get us involved with activities or just alone time. We went to a party Saturday night and I make an effort to get our son to bed earlier. We are going on a 6 day working holiday in 3 weeks, thank goodness...we really need to get out of here.

She's trying...but she isn't quite there yet. She still has a bit of the attitude of "what's the big deal if he's around...it shouldn't bother you" One day at a time, of course.

We saw the psychologist and a lot of her anger came out again. She doesn't want to talk to him again.

How can I help her get over this anger? Lots of areas have improved but her internal anger rears its head and I don't know how to help her get past it beyond doing my Plan A things? It's very stressful.

Hello Wantit

It sometimes painful reading your posts, as I am a FWW trying to rebuild my M after my A, but H is not playing ball and is not that interested. Your wife is a very lucky woman that you are prepared to forgive her and you are prepared to fight for you marriage. Some men just can't get past the pain, ego and pride thing. So kudos to you. This makes you a mature, good, forgiving and understanding person.

Anger is a mask for something else going on, have you tried to understand what is beneath the anger? I do think some of your wifes anger and frustration could be at herself for her actions. I spent a lot of time in denial about my actions, being a coward and like I exaplained to my H I dug a hole deeper and deeper and almost tried to convince myself that I would leave my H and have this wonderful relationship with the OM. After all, being honest with myself and my H about the A, would be admitting to myself that I am deeply flawed, who wants to do that?

You know your wife, and you know what kind of person she is. What would she think of others pre her A of doing what she had done? Did she have strong morals? What does she stand for?

You know this woman, and you can tell in your heart if she really deep down loves you.

Keep doing Plan A, make sure you use some stick. What does your wife like? Make sure you do a calm, controlled Plan A. Does your wife like flowers, texts, surprise gifts...However, don't be a walkover and use some stick.

For example, when she is angry at you, say to her that when she gets angry you can't hear past her hurt and frustration so you don't hear anything she said.

I am not sure why she is seeing a pshychologist?

Good luck, your doing well, and you should be proud of yourself for fighting for your M.

Hitch

Thanks, Hitch. I do know she loves me and she tells me that often. She is a very moral person deep down and she knows what she did is wrong, just in many ways she doesn't feel bad about it because, as she said yet again last night, I'm the one that put her there emotionally, which I fully admit. Doesn't make her actions right, and she knows that, too. And yes, she does have plenty of anger toward herself in regards to that and why she let herself get to that state.

I text her, email her, bring her flowers, take care of things around the house, talk to her, bring home the bacon, focus on her...everything she wants basically. I'm just trying to do my best to fulfill her emotional needs. I find it hard to do any 'Stick' because she has a lot of anger inside for my past transgressions and and Stick can cause a lot of confrontation. But, soon after finding MB I was doing a lot more Stick - telling her she can't take our son out of his home, she can leave but it's on her, etc.

The psychologist was more for me, and she kind of hijacked it at the last second and it was just a big [censored] session for her (which he verified when I spoke to him the next day alone).

You must not take any blame for her actions to choose to have an A, she should have come and spoke to you about how she was feeling about the M, your not a mind reader after all. You may have been partly responsible for the state of your M before the A but not for her actions. This is a major character flaw on her side. You need to let her know this.

I know what you mean about the stick, i find that hard too, but you must do it as your wife needs to know that you aren't a doormat and you won't tolerate her angry outbursts and poor behaviour. It sounds to me as though she still has not taken total responsibility for her actions if she even brings up that you were responsible for putting her in that emotional state. You have some more work to do with her here, thats where the stick comes in. Have a read on Pepperbands Carrot and Stick thread, that will help. You are doing lots of Carrot but not enought stick. Be firm but fair, darling I am not responsible for your decision to have an affair and don't believe you have taken full responsibility for your actions, do you want a cookie? Love that line - do you want a cookie?

Have you tried counselling with the Harleys? My H and I have done a few sessions indepedantly and it has moved us a little forward.

I am also thinking you need to let her know what you have learned from your 'ways' before the A, what has changed in you to make sure those things won't happen again? You need to communicate this to her, either in a letter or verbally. Sometimes a letter is good.

Forgot to add, there are 2 reasons I dont believe she has taken full responsibility is bacause she is showing anger towards you.

1. You W says you are responsible for her emotional state. I do believe you had partial responsibility but your wife had a responsibility for communicating her emotional state to you so you would have the opportunity to work on this?

2. Because she is showing anger at your, for her actions. I cannot dream of doing this to my H, he is the one showing anger at me for my actions...he is in a lot of pain...and me getting angry at him?

More stick Want it, you have to do this if you really love her and and want this to work.

You make a lot of good points, Hitch. She is definitely still in the mode for placing a lot of blame on me for the past. With that, though, she has done a lot of trying to trasmit that to me via some kind of communication whether it be letter, verbal, whatever. I just did a lot of pushing back in the past...we're talking maybe 4 years ago. It's more recently where I've been doing a better job of husbandly duties, but she's now saying it was a bit too little too late and she had already somewhat emotionally seperated herself from me, in a state of Withdrawal, to use a MB term. Again, I acknowledge my role for putting her in the emotional state for being able to be succeptable to an EA BUT that does not excuse her or her actions, which I always make clear.
She definitely sees my changes and says she "appreciates" them, but just it's taking time for her to regain that emotional connection...but she is trying, just not as hard as I would like.

Thats good then Want it, she is trying, which means she cares. Give it some time, but don't forget that Stick!

I agree with some of the other posters that you need to understand more about what needs she is getting from OM. So you can meet them.

I will share with you what it was for me (everyone is different tho). It was about the fact that he desired me, the fact I felt like he was genuine and cared for me, that he listened to me without judgement and let me ramble for hours without jumping in and giving an opinion (no disprespectful judgements), that he seemed strong and independant. All rubbish ofcourse! I am just trying to give you some insight. I also think a big attraction to come back to my H was when I thought he was getting on fine withmout me! He was going out more, meeting new friends going to shows and concerts... he had a life and that was attractive. Have you asked your wife what she liked about OM?

Yes, and as far as I know she isn't talking to him at all now. She just liked that he put her on a pedestal and also desired her and made her feel special. All things I'm now doing again....she just isn't so receptive to it all the time.

He has something I can't compete with and that he and her are both Arabs and speak the same language and have some cultural similarities (but not religion), which I don't. So, I can't really ever compete with that, but I'm still trying.

ahh right in that case then 'desired' is not just about SF, it is about

wow honey you look hot in that skirt!
that eyeliner is sexy
I like it when you wear that top, you look cute in it
your so clever / intelligent / confident I wish I could be more like that
I love the way you are so kind with your family/friends, thats what I like about you, you are a thoughtful person
That was such a nice thing you did today
you have the best shaped [censored] I have ever seen!! (or whatever is app)
I so admire the way you do xxxxx

Just get excited about her again, show enthusiasm for her, whats she looks like, how she is, how she looks, how she smells/talks whatever

ps. there is only one language of love and it is not arab!!!!

Yep, that's what I'm doing! Sounds like you took some of those right out of my mouth.

cool good luck then Want it. Must go. Time and Patience.

want it to work, I was in your situation not to long ago, it takes a bit of time to get your spouse back to you emotionally, she is still in the affair fog that goes on, my husband was like that as well.
It always came back to me and how I wasn't meeting any of his needs so he decided we were over and he could move on to another woman........
You know she loves you or she would be gone and moved on the OM.....you need to just keep doing what you are doing, be that soft place for her to land.....be strong and let her see that life for you will go on if she decides not to join you in that life......
Tell her that you love her and that you are willing to work to change all the things that were wrong and that you can see your errors.......
She will slowly start to replace the bad memories and feelings about you for the good ones you are now showing her.....
Be understanding of her feelings and tell her if she truly can't get back to being happy in the marriage that she is free to go.......
My husband was the same way.......he now has turned himself around and sees the situation for what it really is, he had an affair that he truly regrets now, he now says he wants to spend the rest of his life making it up to me.....
It takes a lot to work through an affair.......it takes a lot of forgiveness.......
we are about 10 months from d-day.......it just takes a lot of patience and work, don't push, be strong, don't let her think she can call the shots.......work on being the best you......enjoy life even if she doesn't join you.........
don't get discouraged.......it all takes faith and patience...

Thanks jessi...that helps. I think I'm doing most of the right things and I know it will take time...and I've already seen improvement.
A major part I need to work on is doing a bit more stick and show her I can do it.

should I not get upset when I see her look him up on facebook (she did this morning right after I left for work)? It does indeed bother me, as you would guess. It's been several weeks since she's done that..........

It's hard to be nice and not seem bothered. Otherwise, we're doing much better...for the most part. Still not in a recovery, though.

Hi Wantit

Yes be bothered, still contact with him even through that route? Thats not good. Its means she is still having some withdrawal.

Take it you used some stick? Honey, when you check his facebook page, that is still classed as having some contact, can you stop doing that. What do you want for dinner tonight?

Yes, be bothered. This is contact. Your recovery has been resent to 0. You will never enter recovery if you don't insist on NC. I see it still hasn't been established. Though things are 'doing much better' it's meaningless when you are in a false recovery - which is where you are.

Time to man up.

Time to say "Things have been improving but they will never get far unless you agree to NC and that involves sending a letter and full and complete transparency. Until that is established we cannot move forward. If you cannot commit to NC then I think we need to start looking at an alternate living situation because I cannot live with a wife who insists on leaving the door open to a third party."

Stand up for yourself. Your wife will respect you for it in the end.

Thanks ya'll...I get what you are saying. She did not 'Contact' him, per se, but did look him up and probably just check his FB page out. Previously, however, some here were telling me to expect her to keep doing it and just focus on the Plan A, and not to expect her to stop doing it. I believe that is part of Plan A, no? Correct me if I'm wrong here...

I say we aren't in recovery because she has not agreed to any kind of NC and just verbaly tells me she isn't contacting him. I believe she hasn't but she probably doesn't think looking him up on FB is a 'big deal'...

I don't want her to know that I'm watching her computer because that is my only way to see what she is doing. If I tell her I know she looks him up from time-to-time she will know I can monitor her.

When we move I'll be able to implement Stick much easier, and Plan B if necessary.

Want it

are you saying that I have to move to use some stick on my H?

Please take vibrissas advice and deal with this.

It sounds as though things are moving in the right direction, but please use some stick.

Pepper is the expert here and sounds as though you could do with her help.

Hitch