Caveat, Dt: Do not give your WW info on any of your snooping methods or she will figure out a way around them. Waywards are notoriously inventive little folks.

Keyloggers are great inventions. Go to spectorsoft.com. Look into the eblaster.

Go to WalMart for a VAR. Don't get the cheapest one - it's too hard to hear what it records. Go for the $50 one. Or look online - there are a lot of models out there.

These are two snooping tools that I would recommend you invest in asap - lots of bang for the buck.

If you choose to follow our advice and use these, and then you find something: do NOT let her know. Come here first and tell us what you've found. We'll help you decide what you need to do with the intel.

And by saying "it was just oral" tells me you're trying to minimalize. So, using Mel's example, would you say it was okay to just decide to never steal again? Do you think that would make it okay, that your neighbor's money is gone but you've turned over a new leaf?

Or how about this: you steal from your neighbor, but it was only $20 and you figure they can afford the loss. Does it make your theft okay? That they'll never miss it? Nope. You still stole from your neighbor. The crime is still the same. You still have to make it right. A remorseful thief would go back and return the money, begging for forgiveness as an act of repentence.

In my sitch, the OW thought she was a 'victim' of my H's clever manipulations to 'entice her' into an A. That's how she presented it to her H. She never asked for forgiveness for the terrible wrong that she did to me. Did I want her phone call? No. But it would have been an honest act of contrition and I would have respected that. To this day, her lies and deceit to her H and child continue. What a sorry life for them.

I agree that OM's spouses should be told. And as a FWW I can tell you that your WW NEVER needs to see these guys again. Ending a friendship is a small price to pay for a truly recovered M. Every time you all see these OM's it WILL be a trigger. I also recommend following the advice about a VAR and a keylogger. I am not sure sure creating an alter ego and trying to LEAD her into another encounter is the greatest of ideas. Seems a bit like fixing alcohol for an alcoholic and telling them it's just coke. But that's just my two cents.

What a great bunch of responses so far. This is why I decided to post here and seek input from those that understand. Thanks fro all the comments and suggestions. I will try to go back and respond to each one as I have time.

I will say that she has been extremely honest and open about everything as far as I can tell. I knew what happened long before she came clean due to posing as the "next guy" and her stories both times were the same. I do have passwords for everything and I am seriously considering taking the additional steps outlined here. I check her phone daily, just did as a matter of fact, as well as Facebook and email. I even have the password to an email account that she doesnt even realize I know about.

Maybe in time I can see a way to end all contact with Guy #1 but until then I will keep close watch over everything. I am convinced that I know everything and that neither one will flare up again in the future. But I know many others here thought the same thing. I want to show her respect as we go along but not at the expense of getting hurt again.

She did not show you any respect when she had an affair with these men dirtbags. You can not control what she does.

How many marriages have you save from infidelity? Why don't you follow the plans set out by DrH, who BTW has saved THOUSANDS of marriages.

You can't cut corners here. You need to expose to OMWs and have NO CONTACT FOR LIFE. It's just as simple as that. You can have a chance at recovering your marriage or you can try to do it your way and limp along until your wife has another affair, restarts one that she hasn't ended(because if there is still contact, there is still an active affair) and you decide that you can't handle it any more and D. Or your wife really falls for the next one and decides to leave you.

You have received the best opportunity. I don't want to see you waste it.

I found out about my WHs EA almost 3 years ago. I had not found MB yet. Their affair grew and grew. Now, my WH lives with the OW. He left me and our 2 sons to go live with his skank. I WISH I had ha this place back then. I would have saved myself a lot of heartache.

PLEASE DO THIS THE RIGHT WAY.

Both OMWs must be told about the affair.

Their must be NC for life. That means no bike rallies where the OM will show up. Either you expose the PA to the circle of friends and let them decide whether they want to see you or the OM because you and WW are NC with the OM.

If not willing to expose to your friends then you will have to go NC with them to maintain NC with the OM.

I'd say it's time to consider moving.

In addition...instead of policing her internet activities you should be pushing towards establishing a boundary that she's not to use the internet socially anymore. No facebook. No myspace. No mylife. She's proven she can't handle it nor be trusted on-line and it's cruel for her to continue to do so. It's not acceptable. If she wants to develop internet relationships she can do it HERE on MB where you and she can have MUTUAL internet friends that are also friends of your marriage.

It's not like she's a one time cheater...she's gone off the deep end here the last few years with THREE (including with the anonymous you) AFFAIRS. Again...no policing or monitoring her should be required as she shouldn't be doing anything online without your enthusiastic agreement nor which could ever be considered suspect.

I've often suggested making posting here on MB a good boundary for a recently BS that hasn't the faintest idea what they are doing. In fifty or so posts WE can garner a pretty good assessment of your wife's sincerity. Is she reading here too??? My wife posted here before I did and the help she received (as well as a few early 2x4's) made all the difference for us. We'd love to meet her and hear her side of the story (there's always another side).

Mr. Wondering

This is all for naught as long as she continues to see the OM. None of this will overcome the triggers from seeing him. Every time she sees him puts her back to day 1 of recovery. It is like playing chicken with your marriage.


You don't understand the nature of an affair and are essentially preventing recovery of your marriage from ever taking place. Your marriage will never recover until all contact ends. An affair is an addiction so each time she sees her lover, she is triggered. This is the alcoholic who has the occasional drink. He never recovers because he never sobers up.

I am sorry, but your marriage will never recover until this contact ends. Your W will be in a state of perpetual withdrawal.


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There is nothing respectful about taking such foolish risks in your marriage that you make it impossible to ever recover.

Dt, did you read what you wrote here? Are you serious??? You're saying she's being open and honest with you out of one side of your mouth, and the other side is talking about an email account she thinks she's got hidden from you. AND that the only way you busted her was by trickery - that is NOT being open and honest! Oy Vey!
How in the world would you consider her to be open and honest??? I wouldn't trust her as far as I could toss her!

Keylogger. VAR. Exposure to OMW. There's your To Do list for today if you're really serious about saving your M.

Hi there and glad you have joined us here, lots of great folks who are at all the stages of affairs that you will have to go through.
Listen and learn my friend, right now you want to believe what your wife is saying but don't just yet, listen, watch, check, put a GPS in her car, add a VAR in her car...put a key logger on the comp........and you check for a while, she has proven to you that she is capable of making decisions that don't have your best interest at heart. You have also learned that she will lie to you to cover up those decisions....
Your mistake with her was to trust her that her flirting wouldn't go any further, you can't trust her, she has proven this.....affairs happen because we have that blind trust, this is not a good idea in any marriage........if we trusted our gut instincts and didn't do the blind trust thing, maybe a lot of us could have stopped the affairs in the early stages and lessened some of our grief and pain....
She needs to never see any of the OM she has had affairs with........the affairs need to be in the open, it makes everyone accountable not just her.......the OM need to be watched as well by their spouses........how did you feel when you were in the dark, do you think they are any different then you......she might be mad, so what she will get over it.......you cannot survive affairs in a marriage......that's a given........
Then you work at filling each other's needs, spending lots of time together, having fun......show lots of effection and have a good sex life, all this should put your marriage in a place where neither one of you wants to go outside.......
Be there listen to her when she has emotional struggles,(sickness, deaths) lots of hugs knowing someone just cares that you are hurting goes a long way......
I think your marriage is saveable but don't be a fool this time, trust comes after the behavior proves itself, look at only her actions right now.........you know her word doesn't mean anything at this point......she has proven she will lie if she has to.

Again, thank you all for the encouragement and direct to the point suggestions. I need that right now.

Even though this all came to a head three weeks ago, she had confessed to me about guy #2 back in January then guy #1 in September. I knew the truth about guy #1 back in January as well but it took her until September to admit it to me. So I have met with both OM face to face and talked about their part in this. WW told me from the beginning that OM2 was too drunk to even remember what happened and that was what he told me when we talked. He apologized for everything else that happened, the kissing, the flirting, the groping and seemed truly remorseful for it. But he did seem genuinely surprised and shocked when I told him what WW had told me had happened. I was there that night and I know he was very, very drunk and almost incoherent.

OM1 denied everything and said WW was constantly after him and it bothered him because we were friends. I know thats BS because he has done this before with other "friends" and it sure never slowed him down any. OM1's wife knows he has had several affairs and she has had one herself years ago. WW told me the reason she couldn't bring herself to tell me about OM1 was that she was afraid it would ruin friendships and OM1 agreed. So they agreed to take it to the grave with them.

OK, I said all that to get to this point. OM2 is an easy fix as we have avoided them for almost a year and we have no need to see them anyway. They live far enough away that we won't likely cross paths anywhere. But OM1 is a different story. As I've said previously here we are around him quite a bit. He lived just around the corner from us until this summer. I still avoid driving by their old house because that was where it happened. So anyway, a part of me wants to initiate total NC from now on but to do so would likely cost us every close friend we've had for 25 years. This group has been through thick and thin together. Florida vacations, Vegas vacations, motorcycle rallys, funerals, marriages, kids, graduations......everything. But this would be choosing to not follow the tried and true methods set forth on this site.

The other part of me wants to just leave it alone. It's been almost three years since anything happened between them and things are noticably different now. They had a big fight a couple of years ago and haven't really talked since then unless it's when the group is together. Even then it's nothing past a simple conversation or answering a question. They NEVER talk on the phone, FB or any other way and are NEVER alone together. I hate to stir up a huge mess that I feel is behind us now but then again I hate to not follow the path and end up with a whole new mess to deal with.

I know it sounds like I'm marginalizing everything and to a certain extent I guess I am. But I have to trust her at some point, right?

There's trust, and there's stupid. And I don't think you're stupid. NC is a must, Dt. What's more important, your M or your circle of friends?

@Doubletap - head in the sand. Don't forget `Just Compensation`. None seen yet.

Translation: OM1 is now free to scr*w up another relationship with the knowledge that those who actually know what a real piece of work he really is have also chosen to keep this secret.

"Trust but verify".

She's not allowed to have any opposite-sex friends from now on. She's shown how irresponsible she is with them.

Seriously, what would you lose by verifying with friends that OM#1 won't be in the mix if you go to an activity? It doesn't mean you're out of the group. It just means you get to start organizing, and pointedly leave OM#1 out of every invitation. He's not welcome in your home, you will always leave if it he is present, and refuse to attend if he will be present.

You ABSOLUTELY MUST inform every member of this circle of friends about your wife's affair and ask for their help in making sure she and OM#1 are never in one another's presence again. They will be a HUGE help in policing this once they know all about it, and your mutual decision to make sure OM#1 will never be around your wife again. In that light, exposure isn't about ending the affair or about supporting you directly. It's about making sure it never happens again because the two of them must never see each other again.

Seriously, every time she sees the OM, it triggers her. She's not even aware of it, but Contrast Effect kicks in and YOU lose some units in your account in her Love Bank. Since you can never tell whether you're gaining or losing Love Units until you hit one of the thresholds -- Hate, Indifference, Care, or Romantic Love -- you won't know you're losing it until she delivers the "I love you but I'm not in love with you" speech again.

The consequences of infidelity are far reaching and they are yours, too, if you desire to truly recover your marriage.

You can still see some of those friends on an individual basis if you choose...especially the ones that are friends of your marriage. However, I'd have a hard time trusting any of them around your wife, especially if drinking is involved seeing that they all know she has had sex with at least 2 other mutual friends. Next time they are pass out drunk they MAY perceive your wife has a "easy" button on her head and take a stab at her themselves.

I suggest moving. A fresh start.

Mr. Wondering

These are not friends if they would stay friends with OM over you.

Unfortunately as pointed out people like to bragg and others must know and think your WW has an easy button.

Also if these people are your friends they deserve to know that the OM is a fox in their hen house. They need to protect themselves from the OM.

NC is a must. Best and eaiset solution is to move 20 hours away by car. Start over being you do not want to expose OM. Also you refuse to give up activities where he OM will be shows your lack of understanding the importance of NC.