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writer1 #2442325 11/11/10 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by writer1
Aren't you kind of shoving your will onto your H as well?

Again, I see no desire from you to sit down with your H and actually listen to how he feels about this. You seem to have no consideration for his feelings at all, and then you get angry when he doesn't consider yours.

I am not demanding that he tolerate my solo activities that he disapproves of, writer. That's what I mean by shoving your personal fulfillment down an unwilling partner's throat.

I'm asking him to place the precaution in our marriage of not spending the night away from home. Do you think that is me shoving my will on him??? Oh no, watch out for that controlling woman, she expects care and protection! Oh no! MOST women don't need that! /sarcasm


Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
inrecoverynow #2442328 11/11/10 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by inrecoverynow
See, I don't agree. If travel is a need, why is Business travel the only way for Mr CWMIs need to be met? If travel is a need, why isn't he whisking CWMI and their family on vacations, long weekend get-aways, etc? Why wouldn't Mr. CWMI's need for travel be part of RC?

Now, I'm presuming that your husband knew about your writing before you got married. What if he had said "Writer, I support you 100% on your writing," and then after marriage and children said "Nope, sorry Writer. For what ever reason, I'm not supporting you on your writing anymore. Oh, and I'm not sure I really ever supported your writing 100% of the time. I just went along with it in the beginning, because, well, I did. And now, I actually don't think I ever really liked you writing. Opps, I guess I misrepresented myself. Too bad, so sad"

Then, writer, what would you do?

I'm not saying his need for travel couldn't be fulfilled by family travel. Ideally, it could. Maybe this is something they could explore.

In the case of CWMI's H, he probably could stay in the same line of work and not travel as well. Some occupations, such as my previous example of an airline pilot, that simply wouldn't be possible. If it was his dream to be a pilot, and his wife wasn't happy about him traveling, then some sort of sacrifice would have to be made by one spouse, and sacrifice is never good. CWMI's H has a job that doesn't seem to require travel, and yet he chooses to do it anyway. I don't know why, but I think it is something she should explore. What is he getting out of traveling for business? Is there some other way to fulfill this need that would be mutually agreeable to both of them?

As far as your other question, yes my H did know about my writing before I married him, and he did support that. If he changed his mind now and said he would no longer support it, or that he never really did, then our M probably wouldn't have much of a chance at succeeding. It isn't something I'm willing to give up. Luckily, my H knows this and appreciates it. My love of writing is one of the things about me that he loves, because it is one of the most integral things that make me who I am.

That doesn't mean that we don't have to POJA certain things about my writing. We POJA lots of things: writing time, budget for books and other supplies, if/when I attend conferences and other writing related events.

But a flat-out, no, I don't like this, I don't want you doing it, I won't ever agree to it under any circumstances doesn't really leave itself open much to the POJA, does it?


Me: BS/FWW: 48
BS/WH: 50
DS: 30, 27, 25
DD: 28
OC: 10
BH and I are raising my OC together.
CWMI #2442330 11/11/10 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by CWMI
Originally Posted by writer1
Aren't you kind of shoving your will onto your H as well?

Again, I see no desire from you to sit down with your H and actually listen to how he feels about this. You seem to have no consideration for his feelings at all, and then you get angry when he doesn't consider yours.

I am not demanding that he tolerate my solo activities that he disapproves of, writer. That's what I mean by shoving your personal fulfillment down an unwilling partner's throat.

I'm asking him to place the precaution in our marriage of not spending the night away from home. Do you think that is me shoving my will on him??? Oh no, watch out for that controlling woman, she expects care and protection! Oh no! MOST women don't need that! /sarcasm

Actually, the sarcasm is perhaps one of your biggest enemies. I don't think it's so much WHAT you are asking of your H, but HOW you are asking it. You come across as very negative, attacking, and defensive here. If you are approaching the issue with your H in the same manner, then that may be half of your problem right there.


Me: BS/FWW: 48
BS/WH: 50
DS: 30, 27, 25
DD: 28
OC: 10
BH and I are raising my OC together.
writer1 #2442331 11/11/10 12:23 PM
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We do travel together.

Business travel makes him feel important and relevant. Are there other ways to get that feeling? Absolutely, but he's like a petulant child (nods to barbie, I see what I did there) who sets his sights on the one and only way and digs in.

Horse with blinders.

Uncreative.

Writer, I think you are highly discounting the fact that I told him before we got married that I could never be with a traveling man. He never traveled before we got married, and the job he had did not require it. So add up: 1)I was open and honest about this need 2)It was not an issue when we married, and 3) he is now forcing the decision on me to D or put up with it.

I am not at fault here.


Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
CWMI #2442333 11/11/10 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by CWMI
Writer, I think you are highly discounting the fact that I told him before we got married that I could never be with a traveling man. He never traveled before we got married, and the job he had did not require it. So add up: 1)I was open and honest about this need 2)It was not an issue when we married, and 3) he is now forcing the decision on me to D or put up with it.

I am not at fault here.

I didn't know that you had clearly stated that travel was not something that you would tolerate before you even got married.

And I never said you were at fault. I just think that the way you are handling the situation is making your H feel very defensive. I see a lot of DJ's in your posts about your H. Certainly, he can see them too, and I don't think it's helping the situation at all.


Me: BS/FWW: 48
BS/WH: 50
DS: 30, 27, 25
DD: 28
OC: 10
BH and I are raising my OC together.
writer1 #2442334 11/11/10 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by writer1
Actually, the sarcasm is perhaps one of your biggest enemies. I don't think it's so much WHAT you are asking of your H, but HOW you are asking it. You come across as very negative, attacking, and defensive here. If you are approaching the issue with your H in the same manner, then that may be half of your problem right there.

Sarcasm is a device to make a point.

I have approached this problem in the best manner possible: via third party (Steve) after my own efforts were unsuccessful. Have you read the OP? Do you know why this is an issue right now?


Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
writer1 #2442337 11/11/10 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by writer1
Originally Posted by CWMI
Writer, I think you are highly discounting the fact that I told him before we got married that I could never be with a traveling man. He never traveled before we got married, and the job he had did not require it. So add up: 1)I was open and honest about this need 2)It was not an issue when we married, and 3) he is now forcing the decision on me to D or put up with it.

I am not at fault here.

I didn't know that you had clearly stated that travel was not something that you would tolerate before you even got married.

And I never said you were at fault. I just think that the way you are handling the situation is making your H feel very defensive. I see a lot of DJ's in your posts about your H. Certainly, he can see them too, and I don't think it's helping the situation at all.

Well I hope it sheds a new light on the situation I am in.


Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
writer1 #2442339 11/11/10 12:33 PM
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I'm wondering, though, CWMI-what your plan of action is?
See, because with my husband, if he behaves in a way that's a deal breaker-well, I have to follow through on my consequences. Otherwise my word is just as good as an addicts.

So, if your husband traveling is really a dealbreaker, what's preventing you from following through on your boundaries? Have you made an appointment with SH to get started on a Plan B?


Last edited by inrecoverynow; 11/11/10 12:36 PM.
CWMI #2442340 11/11/10 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by CWMI
Business travel makes him feel important and relevant. Are there other ways to get that feeling? Absolutely, but he's like a petulant child (nods to barbie, I see what I did there) who sets his sights on the one and only way and digs in.

Okay, you see what you did. An obvious DJ. Certainly not something Steve would have told you to do. So are you going to stop doing it now that you recognize it? Because if you're saying things like this to your H, it isn't going to get you anywhere, no matter who is in the right on the original issue.


Me: BS/FWW: 48
BS/WH: 50
DS: 30, 27, 25
DD: 28
OC: 10
BH and I are raising my OC together.
CWMI #2442341 11/11/10 12:35 PM
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CWMI, your H knows how you feel about the travel...this is nothing new. What are you willing to live with if he is unwilling to protect you and your marriage? That is the bottom line.


BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
inrecoverynow #2442344 11/11/10 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by inrecoverynow
[quote=writer1]
I'm wondering, though, CWMI-what your plan of action is?
See, because with my husband, if he behaves in a way that's a deal breaker-well, I have to follow through on my consequences. Otherwise my word is just as good as an addicts.

So, if your husband traveling is really a dealbreaker, what's preventing you from following through on your boundaries?

This is what I don't understand either. I don't get the feeling that it really is a deal-breaker. He's been traveling for work for quite some time now, and she's still there. Her actions are showing her H that it isn't a deal-breaker at all. She may complain about it, but she isn't going to follow through with anything.

If my H said, either stop writing or it's over, then I'd pretty much say, okay, see ya. I'm sure you would do the same thing if your H started up with his addiction again. Those are deal-breakers for us. Right now, traveling for work really isn't a deal-breaker for CWMI. Her actions prove that. And her H knows he can continue doing it without suffering any real consequences for his actions.


Me: BS/FWW: 48
BS/WH: 50
DS: 30, 27, 25
DD: 28
OC: 10
BH and I are raising my OC together.
barbiecat #2442345 11/11/10 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by barbiecat
[quote=CWMI]Each partner feels that they know what is "right" for the relationship. One or both act on this well intentioned, but misguided belief.

WHENEVER you hear namecalling, sarcasm or putting down the other partner in a relationship, there is an issue of control being exerted <- sp?.
That statement sent my marriage/myself into a total spin.

Last edited by barbiecat; 11/11/10 12:43 PM.

Me; W 46
Him; H 46

2 girls
DD19
DD16
Dated/Married total 28 years.
..I am learning and working on myself.
writer1 #2442348 11/11/10 12:54 PM
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He took me with him, which was the deal before this new job, that's why I'm still here. I'm horribly nervous about next time. I don't know when it will be, or if it will be, this was a completely wasteful trip that could have been easily replaced by giving each employee a copy of "The Fred Factor."

None of you who have not left cannot say for certain what is your deal-breaker. Writer, I told you before to read up on Lydia Sigourney, her H told her to stop writing, she has a very interesting story, and although there is a lot of deception involved in what she did, she managed to meet her H's needs while still pursuing her craft on the sly and rescued her family because of it after her H's business failed. It's a very interesting story that speaks to the hypothetical situation you've been presented, and how a person can unobtrusively chase dreams. Her H no longer supported the time she put in and how that affected her domestic duties, and he resented her growing fame. So she upped her DS, wrote when she could do so without affecting the meeting of her H's needs, and published anonymously. She lied, basically, but I still think it's a great story of creatively 'having it all'.


Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
CWMI #2442356 11/11/10 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by CWMI
None of you who have not left cannot say for certain what is your deal-breaker. Writer, I told you before to read up on Lydia Sigourney, her H told her to stop writing, she has a very interesting story, and although there is a lot of deception involved in what she did, she managed to meet her H's needs while still pursuing her craft on the sly and rescued her family because of it after her H's business failed. It's a very interesting story that speaks to the hypothetical situation you've been presented, and how a person can unobtrusively chase dreams. Her H no longer supported the time she put in and how that affected her domestic duties, and he resented her growing fame. So she upped her DS, wrote when she could do so without affecting the meeting of her H's needs, and published anonymously. She lied, basically, but I still think it's a great story of creatively 'having it all'.

Well, I can read up on it, but I don't think that lying is the best approach. Essentially, she was still doing the thing her H didn't want her to do. If an addict starts drinking again, but he only does it away from home and manages to keep it from his spouse, he is still an addict. I don't buy into the adage that what you don't know can't hurt you.

Creatively "having it all" means (for me at least) being able to successfully meld all aspects of my life - family, marriage, writing,etc. - in a way so that none of the elements detracts from, or suffers in the hands of, another. It isn't easy, but I think it is possible. I may not always succeed at it, but I certainly try.


Me: BS/FWW: 48
BS/WH: 50
DS: 30, 27, 25
DD: 28
OC: 10
BH and I are raising my OC together.
barbiecat #2442358 11/11/10 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by barbiecat
Originally Posted by barbiecat
[quote=CWMI]Each partner feels that they know what is "right" for the relationship. One or both act on this well intentioned, but misguided belief.

WHENEVER you hear namecalling, sarcasm or putting down the other partner in a relationship, there is an issue of control being exerted <- sp?.
That statement sent my marriage/myself into a total spin.

Is there something else you wanted to put here? If this is your answer to my question about what you suggest I do, I'll need more active verbs.


Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
writer1 #2442359 11/11/10 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by writer1
Well, I can read up on it, but I don't think that lying is the best approach. Essentially, she was still doing the thing her H didn't want her to do. If an addict starts drinking again, but he only does it away from home and manages to keep it from his spouse, he is still an addict. I don't buy into the adage that what you don't know can't hurt you.

Creatively "having it all" means (for me at least) being able to successfully meld all aspects of my life - family, marriage, writing,etc. - in a way so that none of the elements detracts from, or suffers in the hands of, another. It isn't easy, but I think it is possible. I may not always succeed at it, but I certainly try.

I don't think lying is a good approach either!

I totally agree with the bold. You seem to think I should willing to suffer for my H's business travel. Am I wrong?


Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
CWMI #2442362 11/11/10 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by CWMI
I totally agree with the bold. You seem to think I should willing to suffer for my H's business travel. Am I wrong?

Absolutely not! I just think you may need a different approach, because the one you are using now doesn't seem to be working.

You need to set up some boundaries and then stick to them. You can say, I am not okay with you traveling for business, and if you continue to do so, then this is what I am going to do. Then, stick to it. Right now, your H knows your boundaries are weak. He knows you don't mean what you say.

Is your H willing to counsel with Steve again? If so, that would be a good place to start.


Me: BS/FWW: 48
BS/WH: 50
DS: 30, 27, 25
DD: 28
OC: 10
BH and I are raising my OC together.
CWMI #2442363 11/11/10 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by CWMI
None of you who have not left cannot say for certain what is your deal-breaker.

Well, CWMI, I haven't left because my husband hasn't relapsed. So, I have no reason to leave.

I do know for certain that I will not stay in a marriage where my husband can pose a threat to my physical health. I feel very strongly that no man is worth me getting sick and dying over. I know I will not stay in a marriage where my husband can be arrested for his behavior.

But, if he does relapse, I'll be able to take the kids and move out as soon as I can get a place to rent. When I considered moving out the first time, I had no problems finding a place to rent over the course of the first few days after d-day. I've already spoken to a lawyer, so I know how long the divorce process will take. I have the numbers of support folks (my old therapist and the 12 step group for spouses). I know when meeting times and locations are for my 12 step group.

I've got a plan in place to get me and the kids through about the first 4-6 months after my husband relapses.

I hope to heck I never have to use it. But, should that trigger be pulled I'm ready.

And, I've been very upfront with my husband about my response his relapse. He knows where the money for setting up another household and retaining a lawyer exists. He knows I've seen a lawyer. My therapist has her office quite literally in the room next to his.

We are done-so very stick a fork in it done- with any secrets, lies, misinformation, deception or what have you in our marriage.


CWMI #2442367 11/11/10 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by CWMI
None of you who have not left cannot say for certain what is your deal-breaker.

And I haven't left (nor do I have so much as an inkling of a plan in place to do so) because my H has never given any indication that he would ask me to stop writing. He's very supportive of my writing. He's often the one who has to remind me that it's time to go write, since I tend to be a bit of a procrastinator.


Me: BS/FWW: 48
BS/WH: 50
DS: 30, 27, 25
DD: 28
OC: 10
BH and I are raising my OC together.
inrecoverynow #2442368 11/11/10 01:46 PM
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Did everyone at his company go to NO? Was it a team building exercise? I can imagine "the new guy" isn't going to want to refuse to attend.

Or was this a reward for good performance? Did only the best performers get invited? In that case, you asking him not to go may feel to him as undercutting his accomplishment.

Again, not saying you should accept business travel. You feel how you feel and you are entitled to set your boundaries wherever you need them to be.

But I can imagine several scenarios where he would feel a substantial lack of support for his career. Doesn't mean he is entitled to ignore your feelings. Just saying that you need to be mindful fo his, as well.


When you can see it coming, duck!
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