Things had been going pretty well. Continuing MC and both seeing personal therapists. Good discussions were continuing and I was feeling really good about finally turning the corner. Then last night we go to a friends bar to watch a football game. She tells me she is texting a friend in St Louis and she wanted me to know about it. I told her it was fine. We went to school with the guy and he was in town a few weeks ago to visit. I know for a fact that nothing happened while he was here and they even talked about our situation.

So about an hour later I happen to glance over at her phone while she was texting him and I see some sexual comments that were not even remotely related to a so-how-are-you conversation. They were very graphic and I was completely shocked. I immediately text him and tell him to stop then I went to the restroom. When I returned my phone had been moved so I knew she had been looking at my text. She walked off and a short time later I got a text from her saying I was again keeping her from "having fun". She returned to the table right after that and I told her what she was doing was inappropriate and it needed to stop. She got really pissed and said she knew I had sent him that text.

She tried to text him again but he would not respond to her. He did answer me and apologized profusely saying he wasn't intending on playing that game with her but just got caught up in the moment. So she started texting her sister and telling her what an [censored] I was for doing that. After we got home I took her phone and found that she had already deleted all texts to him and her sister.

We are not talking to each other much today so far and I know she senses a talk coming soon. She is at our sons theater performance right now and we WILL talk when she gets back. I have sent an email to our "friend" fully explaining our situation (I don't know what she told him when he was here) and telling him what would happen if it occured again. I'm not too worried about him now but I am worried about her.

She has a problem and she admits it. But the fact that she would do that while we were in recovery just blows my mind. It's like she has no respect what-so-ever for me or our marriage. Since I have no proof of what was said I'm not sure how to handle this with the counselors but it WILL be brought up next week at our joint MC session.

I don't know that I'm asking for help here or just venting. This is so frustrating!

You're not in recovery, IMVHO. That's actively wayward material right there.

I haven't read your sitch and don't have the time to do it now, but I wanted to let you know how this looks to someone outside of your situation.

Back to square one, methinks.

Sorry to hear this, DT It sounds like your W is still wayward and involved in another EA. So first off, I would recommend clicking "notify" and asking the mods to move this to SAA.

I went back and saw that there were three online OM. When was NC established? Who were the As exposed to?

I would forget the MC. MC typically don't know the first thing about how to recover after infidelity and oftentimes do more damage. Can you afford the Harleys? They are known for getting waywards on board with a recovery plan and it is worth every penny!

It sounds like your W "agreed" to recovery, but as you are learning, talk is very cheap when it comes to waywards and unless there is a serious demonstration of a willingness to change, the risk of repeat behavior is pretty high.

Were NC letters sent all three OM?
Were WRITTEN EPs put in place?
Was O&H and transparency agreed to [meaning she would have agreed to allow you to look at her phone at any time, to not erase anything and to give you all passwords]?
These are good signs of a wayward who is serious about recovery.

Back to this new OM: Do you have access to the phone records? Can you get flexispy installed on your W's phone?

Hi DT,

Have you read any of Dr. Harley's books? I've read through all of your posts and find no mention of reading any of them.

If you haven't, I would highly recommend you get the book, "His Needs, Her Needs" and read it.

I'm sorry to ask this, but I have one other question, have there been any infidelities on your part at any time in your marriage?

Update:

SusieQ, I do not believe this was an EA but rather her fulfilling her perceived need for gratification that pulled a friend into the mess. It truly was a one time thing that was stopped before it could go further. Yes, I have access to the phone records and have been watching her activity very closely since January. This recent friend is very upset about what happened. She had told him that we were having problems but did not elaborate. He now knows everything as does his wife.

I tried to be nice about this whole process with her but that was apparently in vain. She has a problem and she knows it. When she got home yesterday from the theater we had a long talk. She admits that she is a serial cheater and needs help. So last night we sent emails to the OM and their wives (seperate emails too) exposing the affairs. Friends were also called and emailed and the affairs are no longer a secret. No contact letters were drafted afterwards and sent in seperate emails with printed copies being mailed today. She sees her therapist tonight and will tell her what has happened.

Tonight, after her appointment, we begin the MB program in earnest. EP's, boundaries, the whole system. Oh, and by the way, the MC we are seeing is a minister that is working with us spiritually and not specifically on the infidelity issue. That is being handled by our respective therapists and here with MB.

HPB - No I haven not read any of the books but plan on reading HNHN very soon. And your question about me is very legitiment. I have not had any physical affaris and didnt really think I had committed any type of infidelity until landing here and reading so much. I believe I have probably crossed over into a couple of EA's but nothing that even remotely became a problem. I have told her all about those and she said she knew I was talking to them but wasnt concerned. My behavior never met the definition here of an EA really. Both times happened as I was reaching out for someone to talk to when WW was doing her thing. They were confidants and nothing more but I do regret talking to them when I should have been talking to WW instead. Lesson learned.

The moment you know you're in trouble is when you begin having romantic feelings toward, and a desire to spend additional time with, a member of the opposite sex other than your spouse. It's at that point you should make plans to avoid contact with that person and be sure your spouse is aware of your attraction.

The moment you're in an EA is the moment the two of you share those feelings aloud toward each other. If they share and you hold your tongue, it's not an EA, but that's an extremely dangerous person for you to be around; admitting your attraction for someone makes a HUGE Love Bank deposit.

EDIT: Nice to see you're running with the MarriageBuilders system. I know you have His Needs, Her Needs on the way, but I'd really recommend "Surviving An Affair". Your wife may fight the idea of buying & reading the book together, but truthfully once my wife finished reading it (about 4 months after no-contact day) was when I started finally seeing real improvements in her wayward mind-set.

Exposure usually marks the beginning of transitioning into recovery from surviving an affair, and your spouse getting over withdrawal from the addiction usually is a good guidepost that you're fully in recovery.

And it truly is an addiction isn't it. WW didn't fully acknowledge that until last night.

As for me and the EA's, it never got to that point. One was my secretary and the other was my nephew's ex-fiancee. They were just females that I confided in while WW and I were at our worst and I had just begun to uncover her tangled web. Neither one ever professed any feelings toward me nor I to them. But I did begin to feel a close bond with my secretary that I felt might be getting too close. At that time I told her and WW that I felt we might be getting too close. Secretary has since left (better job offer)and I haven't seen her since. The other girl is still around but I keep my few conversations with her very open to WW.

I did get a long and sincere email this morning from the friend she was texting Saturday night. He is very remorseful that he allowed himself to be pulled into her twisted world and vowed to help me any way he could. Although WW deleted all the texts he did keep them for me and forwarded them to me this morning. It was exactly as both described it too. I consider his actions this morning to be commendable and actually made me feel a little better about it.

NO.

Just, no.

Cannot, will not, do not.

This is emotionally charged discussion. You DO NOT speak of marital problems with people of the opposite sex that are not; blood relation, or a licensed professional.

I would even be wary of certain licensed professionals, as my brother's XWW started dating her counselor after her and by brother decided to divorce.

This tone of discussion, and the seeking of support opens the door to EN meeting.

Have these affairs been exposed to your children yet?

We just have one son, 17 years old, and yes he does know everything.

I think the gravity of the situation is hitting her pretty hard today. She's not doing to well and is considering taking a brief medical leave of absence from her work. It's hard to see her in this condition and not be able to help. I'm giving her support but the rest is up to her.

Some of the best recoveries Dr. Harley has ever seen are couples that take a few weeks off from work together to go somewhere to be alone. Your seventeen-year-old can care for himself just fine for a week or two. Schedule some emergency time off yourself and go spend time with just the two of you.

Spending time alone with her may not be the most pleasant experience while she's experiencing withdrawal, but you can help her get over her symptoms. Leave the cell phones at home, and give your son the hotel's number for an emergency contact.

She's beginning withdrawal. I agree, can the two of you go somewhere together? I don't know about leaving the 17 yo alone for a few weeks, though. Maybe bring in a family member to keep an eye on things for a week?

Thanks for the continued support gang. It means a lot right now.

We are planning a get away at some point but work and finances do not allow it right now. Likely after the holidays we can arrange that.

Since I'm sure someone here, if not several, have encountered my latest issue I would like some feedback/advice on this one too.

WW is going to personal counseling to address her issues of self esteem among other things. She has shared a small part of their talks with me and, although the counselor has told her to do esteem building things just like folks here have told others, she is also digging into why WW got to this point.

After Monday night's session WW told me that she hadn't been happy in our marriage for 10 - 15 years and that I made her feel stupid and worthless. That I never told her I loved her, rarely kissed her and was selfish when it came to sex. We have talked about these issues in the past and I have changed my ways. I admitted that I was less than a perfect husband. But now she says me doing (or not doing) these things was the reason for the affairs.

I say thats bull$#!* and that she made calculated decisions to cheat everytime she did it. And she had previously told me that it wasn't about me. That she wasn't even thinking of me when she did it. That it was nothing but selfish behavior. Now it's all my fault.

I'm hoping this is just part of the counseling process as she comes to terms with her inner self. We have actually been getting along great the past two days in spite of this new revelation.

So should I just let this go or should I challenge it? Am I making a mountain out of a mole hill?

Geeez! If I hadn't quit drinking the hard stuff I'd go have a double bourbon right now!

Oh, dear, again with the counselors who don't know squat about recovering from an A.

Doubletap, this kind of counselling is called "navel-gazing" or "getting in touch with your inner child" and other nonsense terms that generally mean nothing in the grand scheme of rebuilding a M. I would suggest the she stop attending IC while rebuilding her M with you and using the tools on this site.

The problem with IC is that it is designed to concentrate on 'self'. Sounds innocent enough on the surface, right? However, concentrating on self is done at the expense of concentrating on the marriage. And I suspect that, if any one of us were to commit ourselves to IC we would find 'flaws' within our 'self' that we need to concentrate on correcting. See where there is no room for a couple when one of the parties is spending all this time concentrating on raising their self-esteem, or soothing their inner child, etc.

Can the two of you counsel with the Harleys? How about this: fire the IC and use that money to counsel with the Harleys.

Misinformation effect in combination with confirmation bias; she is rewriting your marital history in an attempt to justify her behavior, and thus picks it apart for the instances that confirm her current opinion, and ignores any and all information which contradicts it. Because of this, she views the entire marital history in a negative light.

Due to her current emotional state, she absolutely believes this, but it is also - most likely - completely untrue.

I'm sure that, despite your shocked state, you can review your history in a more positive light.

There is what you know, and what she knows. You read here, and the whole "esteem" thing has been bumped up for discussion.

Yet, you cannot "educate" her on these things, and this counselor sounds rather interesting.

I have to consider the "counselor" that my X-SIL had - who was a Construction Contractor/Counselor, and began dating her after her and my brother began filing for divorce...

Things have gone downhill this week for sure. She wants to direct everything back to what I did or didn't do and while I am more than willing to accept any blame that I am due I cannot see how this is beneficial at this point. She wants me to stop bringing up the subject and no longer wants to read any of the information that I have been sending her off this site.

She has become angry and resentful, both signs in the past meant that she was covering up something or not wanting to admit something. I seriously doubt that there is anything else she hasn't told me so I'm not really worried about that. But feel like she doesn't want to deal with this and would rather put it back on me, make it all about me instead of her.

I'm tired of all this back and forth crap. I'm mentally exhausted, my work is suffering and I'm not feeling too good about our marriage right now. There is so much resentment and hostility that I'm not sure we can get over it. I'm taking a break for a while and letting her decide what she wants to do. I'm just tired of all this.

Thanks to all who have offered support and advice. I may visit from time to time but I need to get away from the daily stress of trying to understand all this when she clearly doesn't want me to. Maybe in time, who knows.

So are you entering plan B?

Reverse fogbabble time?

What's YOUR boundary at this point? The BSs who are wishy-washy on their own boundaries are the ones at the highest risk for getting crumbs of a recovery thrown at them.

Hint: Your boundary should be everything that's in the MB rules for recovery... If you are fairly certain that your WW won't agree to those or follow through with them, then my strong suggestion is that your move your boundary down to working with Steve Harley (hopefully he can get her onboard).

If she refuses both of those...it may take moving to Plan B to show her that you are serious.