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schtoop-very TYPICAL to hear a wayward say this line. I got that one too. Funny thing is, WH and I didn't stop SF until a week AFTER the ILYBNILWY speech. I didn't know that the SF was lacking. Apparently, I was WRONG.


BW(Me)aka Scotty:37
DSx2: 10,12
DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09
Plan B Dec18/09
Personal R in works
Scotty's THING laugh
Newly Betrayed click here


Praying for walls and doors. Thanx MM

Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.
? Maya Angelou

PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION

THANK YOU
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Bump for the current crop of newbies.

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I need to work back up my site for these...maybe start a new blog for OM/OW sayings.


One year becomes two, two years becomes five, five becomes ten and before you know it, you've wasted your whole life on a problem you can't solve. That's one way to spend your life. -rwinger

I will not spend my life this way.
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Originally Posted By: mindshare
Bump for newbies.

Thanks for bumping it mindshare. I posted on a newbie's post that I was hoping a vet could point her to this post so she can see that her WH is just like every other WS. I wanted to find it too because I want to be prepared for when I get my evidence of an affair. I have some things but not a bomb that he can't explain away.


BW 46
XWH 46
Boys 17 & 19
Girls 16 & 10
D-day #1 12/2006 (confessed affair in 2004 w/BF & his wife)
D-day #2 10/2008 (denied by XWH)
D-day #3 10/2010
Kick WH out 01/2011 he files for D
D finally final 03/2012
I'm free!
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I've got another one for everyone. My H told me that he loved me as a person and as a friend. He also told me if he loved me like he was suppose to then he never would have done what he had done. Yeah, right! Fog babble again.


BW-me 47yrs
WH-him 50yrs
married 24yrs, together 25 yrs,DD 25yrs, DD 22yrs(granddaughter born 3/14/2012).
D-Day#1 discovered cell phone calls 6/30/2009
D-Day#2 7/26/2009
Plan D 06/2012/WH served 8/17/12
WH left 7/25/2009/WH moved in with OW 7/29/2009
Trying to reconcile 12/30/2009/left 10/22/2010
2nd OW 8/2011? and living in Idaho.
"Dochas" Gaelic for hope which I have with me at all times because it is tattooed on my lower back.
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Here is the latest from my WH.
I asked why he would not let me hold his ipod when he was showing me pictures of the kids. At this point I packed up the kids. Later he told me that he did not want me to see pictures of OW. WH husband then preceded to tell me that OW put up some new pictures of herself on facebook and they are so cute that he put them on his ipod. Gag.


BW (Me) age 41
WH age 40
kids 9 & 3
DD PA Skank #1 2/07
DD PA Skank #2 9/29/10
DD EA Skank #3 3/11 (occurred in '08)not sure if it was PA
Plan A- presently 9/2/11
Plan D- filed 12/20/11, served 12/24/11, 9/2/11 on hold, 12/1/11 cancelled
1/5/2011 WH tells me he is not 100% sure his relationship with OW would work.
7/21/2011 WH moves back home
11/7/2011 WH still foggy in ref to SK#3
Plan D- 1/2012 refiled
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Quote:
Later he told me that he did not want me to see pictures of OW. WH husband then preceded to tell me that OW put up some new pictures of herself on facebook and they are so cute that he put them on his ipod.

Oh, isn't that just too darned precious? puke


D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!

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Wow, I had to just laugh at some of those! I can't believe what they say!!


B.W.{Me}- 28
W.H.- 32
M-8 years
2 kids
Putting pieces together.
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Sad part is 90% is true ..... here is the post of Mid-life Crisis someone was asking about earlier on this thread.


MIDLIFE for Dummies

Welcome to the wonderful world of Mid Life Crisis!! You are about to embark on one of the most perilous journey's you have ever taken. A journey fraught with intrigue and guaranteed to turn you inside out! This book is designed to help you make sure you get the most emotional bang for your buck. In these pages are the "how to" answers to the questions you have been asking yourself about damaging as many people as you can along the way. Come on and dig in, it's time to get this Roller coaster rolling on down the tracks!!

Chapter 1
Choosing the correct speech

There are 4 basic speeches for you to choose from. They are:

a) I love you but I don't know if I'm in love with you.

b) I've never loved you, and we should never have gotten married.

c) We got married to young. I never knew anything besides you.

d) You tricked me into marrying you, I would never have done it otherwise.

Once you have decided on which speech to give, you need to cause as much anxiety in your spouse as you can before you actually give it. Continue to the next chapter for Lessons in building anxiety.

Chapter 2
Lessons in building anxiety

You will find these lessons to be helpful in causing anxiety in your spouse and others (depending on the level of pain and damage you want to cause), not just prior to giving the speech, but throughout your MLC.

Lesson 1
Monstrification of your Spouse

This is easy to accomplish. Simply think of only the "bad" things that your spouse has done throughout your entire relationship. Have one of those "angel" spouses? No problem, just remember how bad she always makes you feel. DO NOT under any circumstances remember fondly your spouse, or anything they have done for you. Remember, they are going to be the cause of all of your problems, so it is imperative that you convince your self of this first.

Lesson 2
Emotional Detachment

This will be very easy to do after accomplishing lesson 1. All you have to do is start reminding yourself that you don't care about them, what they feel, what they want, or if they hurt. Simple! Every time you remind yourself of this, you will get further and further away from your relationship emotionally. Now, that wasn't too hard was it? On to lesson 3

Lesson 3
Mass confusion and Indecision

This lesson requires a little more thought and attention. You must constantly practice saying "I don't know" to ANY and ALL questions. That is imperative!! Your spouse (and others) must never know precisely what is going on in-side your head. Also, never let them know where you are going, where you have been, who you were with (this will go hand in hand with the lesson on the Other Person, or OP), or whether or not they can expect you to return home.

Lesson 4
Lies and Deceit

To get the most damage, and cause the most pain, you must lie and deceive at every opportunity. And to really achieve hall of fame status, you should be very inept at it, so that everyone knows that you are lying, or suspects, but can't prove it initially. This works very well for the following chapters, OP and Cake Eating.

Chapter 3
The Other Person (or OP)

Now it is time for you to succumb to temptation. You KNOW all of those other women/men want you! They have been coming on to you for years!! It is time for you to give them their chance at having some of you. Make sure that you leave a very confusing trail for your spouse to follow. One that lets them suspect, but have to dig and sneak (to make them feel worse about themselves) to find the information they need to prove it. Hold out admitting the affair as long as you can, and don't admit it ever, if you can get away with it.

Chapter 4
Cake Eating

This chapter is designed to string your spouse along in uncertainty as long as possible, because as long as they have hope, they won't be able to go out and find their own lives and be fulfilled. Why should they get to do that, while you are so miserable? They shouldn't!! So, make sure that you are affectionate occasionally (not too often, as this will raise anxiety levels), that you drag your feet about making a decision on the marriage, and that you leave and come back several times (as many as you can get away with).

Chapter 5
History Revision

It is very important that you revise the life you have lead with your spouse. You must use words like: Always, Ever, Never and All of the Time. Always precede the statement with the terms: you, I, and we. As in "you always nag me" "I never ever (double bonus here) get to do what I want" and "We have to do what you want all of the time". This will help to make your spouse feel like the way you are behaving is all their fault, and can cause them to feel even worse about themselves than they already did!!

Chapter 6
It's all about you!!

Remember this is all about you! What you want and need, RIGHT NOW! You shouldn't have to wait until you can afford something, just go on out and get it! You deserve a new haircut, new clothes, and some new toys. You've worked for it. You would probably look great in that new Convertible, or on that new Harley!! So don't hesitate! You live in the here and now! So why wait until tomorrow!!

Remember, the word is CRISIS and if you are in one, EVERYONE else should have to ride the Roller coaster with you! It's no fun taking a ride alone, and you know what they say about misery loving company! Go on out there and get started, so much pain and damage, and so little time!

Chapter 7
Avoid, Ignore, and Run Away

This chapter is to help you deal with the problems that your spouse will try to cause. We don't want you to have to "deal" with anything, now do we? You shouldn't have to "think" about any "issues" right now, except those that concern you "feeling good". The best way to handle this, is to Avoid, Ignore, and Run Away. Any time someone tries to make you see a more "reasonable" stance on a subject, simply Avoid making a reply...stare out into space, as if you are thinking about something important, and they will become uncomfortable and leave you alone. If there are responsibilities that need your attention, simply ignore them. You don't have to do anything you don't feel like doing. And the best for last is Run Away! This can be accomplished in many different ways. OP's can help you Run Away from all of these "problems" as well as Alcohol, Drugs, New Sports Cars....etc the list is endless. Of course, you can always just leave...but remember not to let them know where you are going, and if you'll be back!!

Chapter 8
MC and Therapists:

Your spouse may ask you to go to counseling with her/him. This is only useful to make them feel better. It cannot possibly have anything to you so there is no reason for you to follow-up with anything suggested--it doesn't matter to you. The only thing you should look for is more reasons (excuses) for avoiding, running and ignoring (see previous chapter).

Chapter 9
I Don't have to if I Don't Want to and You Can't Make Me!

Remember that this is about YOU, and what YOU want and how YOU feel!! No one else is important, so don't let them make you feel as if you have to listen to anything they say. Your spouse will try to help you of course, because they love you. Don't let them get away with giving you unwanted advice. Let them know in the teenage vernacular, that they can't make you do anything. This is important, you must be as childish as possible!! Any truly adult behavior on your part will only convince them that you are listening to what they are saying, and you will have to start back at the beginning. Of course, this technique can be used knowingly to cause more confusion and chaos, just beware of the danger, you don't actually want to start acting like an adult!!


Chapter 10
"How to threaten" and/or "How do move out".

You threaten to move out for weeks or months but you don't. (*)You tell your spouse that you got too much on your plate right now to look for a flat but that you will do so in 2 weeks time. After 2 weeks, repeat from (*).

If your wife wants to come too close to you, like entering your bedroom to talk to you, tell her to stay away or you will move out. When she replies that you will move out anyway tell her that you will move out faster if she comes any closer

Chapter 11
Art of Clinging

The Art of Clinging to the End of the Mattress without falling off the matrimonial bed while still sharing it with your spouse.


Chapter 12
Advanced lessons

This is usually reserved for those in more difficult situations, where the LBS has responded not by tossing you out, threatening to leave, or filing for divorce, but instead persists in not only OFFERING to cooperate, but actually MAKING THE CHANGES you said you needed.

"I am tired of living like this/I don't want to live like this anymore/I am not going to live my life like this?" often is coupled with another advanced tactic, "It's not you, it's me".

This line is most effective AFTER the LBS has jumped through hoops and bent over backwards. It basically confirms that no matter what changes the LBS is willing to make, the incompatibility lies within the Ulcer, who has no intention of, or implied desire or ability to, compromise.

Appendix

HOW TO MAKE YOUR SPOUSE THINK SHE IS CRAZY

1. When confronted by the evidence of an EA or PA, become very indignant. Stress that the LBS is obviously just a jealous sob/bi*ch, and you are entitled to "buddies" of the opposite sex.

2. Never, ever answer the question, "Are you okay? Is there something wrong?" with a direct answer that might actually lead to a discussion that might help the marriage. Continue to never talk to spouse, never give her/him a personal compliment or touch of affection and by all means work on the "cling to the edge of the mattress to avoid touching" maneuver that is so successful in making your spouse crazy.

3. Always bear in mind that your spouse will expect you to want to at least give them the chance to "fix" the marriage. Since you have already checked out emotionally (of course NEVER tell them that!), you are under no obligation to actually listen to anything they say or acknowledge anything they do. This tactic is also extremely beneficial when they employ the MLC diet. When they lose a massive amount of weight and you are in ear shot of someone who mentions to spouse about the weight loss, say "Are you losing weight? Why don't you ever tell me things?"

4. Of course one of the most successful ways to drive them crazy may only be used when you have earned the MLC Black Belt. Go to marriage counseling for months, let them pour out their soul to you and the counselor and let them believe they are actually accomplishing something. Then arrange things so the spouse finds you in your own home with OP. This will accomplish two things: a. She will finally have to understand how lucky you are to have found your "soul mate" and b. She will be doubly betrayed because she thought you were actually working on the marriage.



DON'T LET YOUR SPOUSE GET TOO INDEPENDENT - STATEGIES FOR SUCKING YOUR SPOUSE BACK IN

1. Make negative comments about OP or the chances that the relationship with OP will succeed. HOWEVER, under no circumstances, make any commitment to end the relationship with OP.

2. Make veiled hints about suicide or excessive drinking or drug use. Be erratic and hard to contact.

3. Do random acts of kindness such as yard work or something. That will keep your spouse confused and hopeful.

4. Make vague comments hinting that things might work out between you and your spouse IN THE FUTURE. HOWEVER, under no circumstances take any actions to work anything out.

CUSTODY
Using the kids to your advantage.

If you have children, they can be extremely useful for inducing fear and panic in your spouse. Recommended phrases include, "You're poisoning my kids against me", "You put that idea into their heads", and "You need to do [insert pertinent action here] for the sake of the kids'." Remember, your spouse, being a responsible and loving person, is not only trying to cope with his/her own feelings, but trying to protect the children, and you can use that to your advantage.

Don't forget to use the fact that if you spend any time with your kids, you should get Extra Credit Bonus Good Parent points from your spouse. It doesn't matter if you feed them ice cream for breakfast and have them watch "Hellboy" when they asked for "Veggie Tales", you Just Wanted To Make Them Happy, and since YOU are the best judge of Happiness, that makes you Super Parent. You can use this opportunity to trash talk your spouse ("Isn't this more fun than what Mommy/Daddy would let you do?" "Mom/Dad doesn't know how to relax.") which of course, will be repeated back to your spouse so you get the benefit of destroying their self-esteem second hand.

Highly advanced MLCers may want to start casually using the word Custody, but be very, very careful. While useful for sending your spouse into a state of panic, you certainly do not want to be responsible for a bunch of kids who will seriously cut into your personal fun time. The word Custody should only be used in a casual tone of voice for the most devastating effect.

BUTTON PUSHING

You (the mlcer) know a lot about your spouse. You know what pushes their buttons to get them both upset and/or happy. You have the power, you can do it! So using the kids to upset them is fair game (see section on how to use "custody" to upset them but not take on the "custody"). And if that ever stops working, find something else. Suggestions might include pets, valuables in the home, their appearance, family, career. Nothing is out of your reach since you have put in so many years getting to know your spouse--use what you know.

THE BLAME GAME

By now, you should be aware that all of this MUST be your spouses fault, however, your spouse may not understand this completely yet, so you need to start planting the seeds.

There are several ingenious ways to put the blame on your spouse, and we will be exploring them all.

Method 1: The Non-Blame Statement

I'm trying not to blame YOU

This statement implies that you are "not putting the blame on them" but on closer look (which your spouse is guaranteed to be doing) The words actually put all of the blame on the spouse (where of course we know it belongs).

Method 2: The Passive Blame Statement

I don't think that I can live with you.
My opinion never mattered to you.
I cant' live like this.
We rarely have fun anymore.
I don't want to live this way anymore.
(There are many more I'm sure you can think of)



These are passive statements that don't actually assign blame to your spouse, but your spouse will definitely get the idea if you use them. They can't help but see that it MUST be them that makes you feel this way.

Method 3: The Direct Blame Statement

You never listen to me.
You never put creases in my pants.
You use bagged salad.
You never keep the house clean.
You are going to do it your way.

All of these are direct statements of blame. You should mix actual faults with things that don't really matter to make it more confusing, and make your spouse feel as bad as possible about themselves.

Your spouse has probably already started doing the hard work to look inside his/herself (Yuck, what an awful thought!) and will take on all of the faults you list to try and correct them. This will keep them occupied for awhile, and you can avoid any serious relationship talks while they apologize for and try to fix all of their own faults. Make sure that you don't actually accept the apology, that way you can continue to bring the fault up which will slow down their self improvement process. Remember, they are working on becoming better human beings, and you wouldn't want that to happen to fast, as that would interfere with your ability to string them along.

Note: NEVER ACTUALLY ADMIT TO ANY FAULTS OF YOUR OWN!!!! REMEMBER, YOU DON'T HAVE ANY! YOU ARE THE GOOD ONE, AND HAD THE RIGHT TO HAVE AN AFFAIR, LIE, SPEND MONEY, OR ANY OTHER THING, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE ONES THAT ARE BAD!!!

let's not forget "We're just incompatible - we always were."

Also, when the LBS starts to make changes, make SURE you find fault with these changes, or point out how it's "too little, too late", or wasn't what you meant AT ALL. If all else fails, put the LBS down for being so willing to change herself for your needs. Also, when the LBS starts to make changes, make SURE you find fault with these changes, or point out how it's "too little, too late", or wasn't what you meant AT ALL."


How to keep you spouse guessing...be mean one minute threatening divorce, etc then next day be kind and sweet almost the way your spouse remembers you..rinse repeat....


HOW TO CONTINUE THE CRAZINESS ONCE SEPARATION/DIVORCE IS AGREED UPON

1. Even though by now you, dear MLCer, have done everything human possibly to convince your spouse that you do not love him/her and want out, when the time comes to actually file, DON"T DO IT! This is the coup de gras of MLC. Absolutely DO NOT TAKE THE INITIATIVE. This is a most vital and awesome crazy-maker. Holding out will force your by now totally devastated spouse to finally throw up his/her hands and seek legal counsel.

2. Once the LBS has had enough and decides that divorce is in their best interest, you have won HUGE points here. Refusing to be the one to file now puts YOU in the role of victim, bringing you all the attention and pity necessary to allow you to again regain your image of the abused one in all this. Now you can, with absolutely NO guilt, tell everyone the divorce was your LBS's idea (which of COURSE it was!) and they will assume that: a. the LBS lost all that weight and obviously has been involved in an affair, and b. the marriage ended because your LBS spouse is going through a - YES! THE PINNACLE OF CRAZINESS! - Midlife Crisis!!


The really scary part it is like there is a handbook for the WS to act. I would say 90% of BS on this board would agree they have heard most of this from their WS atsome point & time. I know I did.


Click to reveal.. (myinfo)
Me 38 / H 39 (Haha he is older than me!)
Known 24yrs / Married 18yrs
1 DD 23yrs
Too many D Days to count (King of Trickle Truth)
We both have agreed to 100% Commitment to Make this work or die trying !



My Story

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

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"I never wanted to leave you for him. I didn't want to be with him. I didn't see a future with him."


Yeah. Because it should be OK to just sleep with somebody else while you're married....


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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8th..I think my WH read this wherever you took it from, he followed it by a T.
It was easy for him to detach because he had OW but I think he started the detaching process before he actually decided to have the A, just as you reported...he basically found all the faults in me and continued to repeat to himself :this M will never work...like a mantra
After that he opened himself up to other people and OW appeared in his life so easily....just by being the downstairs neighbor (how convenient)!
Is it possible that this script is followed to a T by WS because they are humans beings or because they are messed up human beings...?
It is so mind boggling that we are told all our life by our priests, rabbis, parents and teachers etc...that we are unique and no one is like us.. ever....yet when it comes to WS they seem to come in cookie cutter format....
HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE!? It defeats all the rules.
Blessing


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"We are too very different people."

"We don't even have any common friends."

When I contacted OM under the guise of friendship...
"Get your own F*(&ing friends"

"I've been miserable for XX years."
Really, NOTHING has been good in XX years?
"Correct, NOTHING. EVERYTHING was faked."

"I'm miserable. I can't live like this anymore."
What can I do?
"Nothing"

"We need separation so you can work on yourself and when you are better we can get back together."

"You don't trust me."

"You are too controlling."

"I say 'I Love you' to EVERYONE. It doesn't mean anything."

"We can't even have a conversation."
When I ask things I only get one word answers.
"I have to give you one word answers because if I tell you something about myself you use it against me. We can't even have a conversation."

"You will never change."

and my personal favorite....
"Yes, we were both at the same bar and both stayed at the same hotel on the same night but we didn't see each other. I didn't even know he was there until you told me."

I could go on and on and on....

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Quote:
"I have to give you one word answers because if I tell you something about myself you use it against me. We can't even have a conversation."


Yes!!!! My WH old time favorite! Do we really use what they tell us against them?
What about what they use against us...that we didn't even say (or think...)
scary!!!

Blessing


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Scary thing is ...... When I read it the 1st time it knocked me for a loop. It was just like HOW DID THEY KNOW !!!! It really brings me down when I read it because H said or did so many of these things. Like I've said before it's like there is a handbook out there what to say when cheating on your spouse.


Click to reveal.. (myinfo)
Me 38 / H 39 (Haha he is older than me!)
Known 24yrs / Married 18yrs
1 DD 23yrs
Too many D Days to count (King of Trickle Truth)
We both have agreed to 100% Commitment to Make this work or die trying !



My Story

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

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Posts: 174
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My question is this... Do they actually believe the things they say? Meaning as far as they can tell it is actually true or do they purposely invent this stuff to feel better about themselves and their actions. Seriously, I'm asking because it may actually allow me to have some sympathy for them if they are somehow in a state of mind where they truly believe this stuff is real.

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I truly think they have convinced themselves that it is true...they take little things and blow them up into big things, then they actually brainwash themselves into believing its factual....Its called "the fog"....and as long as they are in there little fantasy world they will continue to believe it...Just like believing the OP is a good person.


BW me-41
WH -39
DS - 9
married 12 Yrs together(?) 18 yrs when A discovered
DDay aug 2007
found MB dec 2007
Moved out april 2008
still seeing OW
Plan B

Okay I fixed the ages, it was looking screwy. smile
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I'm having fun with this so here are a few more. This is somewhat therapeutic for me.

"You've never loved me. All you want is sex."

"I've never been anything but a possession to you."

After filing for divorce.
"I don't want to be divorced. Its just the only way we could get separation so you could work on your issues."

About why she didn't wear her wedding ring.
"I know it bothers you and I want to inflict as much pain on you as possible so that you'll change."
"I'll wear them when I feel like I'm in a marriage."

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Here's another one...

"I do."


-SOL
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Oh my ..... , My H said the exact same thing to me 1 week ago today.

About why she didn't wear her wedding ring.
"I'll wear them when I feel like I'm in a marriage."


What's really sad is I didn't take this for fog talk. I believed every word of it. Wake up call to myself , he's not even close out of the fog yet.



Last edited by 8thgraders; 12/01/10 09:30 PM. Reason: Forgot what day of the week it was lol

Click to reveal.. (myinfo)
Me 38 / H 39 (Haha he is older than me!)
Known 24yrs / Married 18yrs
1 DD 23yrs
Too many D Days to count (King of Trickle Truth)
We both have agreed to 100% Commitment to Make this work or die trying !



My Story

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 233
8
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8
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 233
I think they really do believe their version of it. That's why it's called the fog .... they can't see 2 feet in front of them without tripping on selfishness & entitlement.


Click to reveal.. (myinfo)
Me 38 / H 39 (Haha he is older than me!)
Known 24yrs / Married 18yrs
1 DD 23yrs
Too many D Days to count (King of Trickle Truth)
We both have agreed to 100% Commitment to Make this work or die trying !



My Story

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

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