Hello.

I am SO happy that I have found this board! My story... I have been married for almost 15 years. Early on in our marriage, my husband had a brief workplace affair. I discovered a note from OW and at the time, my husband was sort of reluctant but said he wanted the marriage for sure. He broke off the relationship completely with the OW. We went through 2 yrs. of marriage counseling. Since then, our marriage hasn't been easy. After the first affair, he did not treat me the same way. I could never figure that out. The counselor always told him that HE needed to step up to the plate because I was already doing everything that I could do in the marriage but he never totally was the husband that he needed to be. There has been TONS of great stuff in our marriage though even though there have been trials and I want to make that clear. Because of all of the hurt caused by his behavior towards me after the affair and counseling, our physical relationship has greatly suffered. I told him all along that I am not a robot, etc. and that I am hurting. I tried everything to get him to be more kind but he never followed through and this has been a constant problem and cycle. I have not been getting my needs met and neither has he. ALL of it has stemmed from his behavior and he knows that and acknowledges it. Before the first affair, he was getting so much sex from me that I actually went to him and asked for MORE sex. His affair was a truly selfish thing...his love tank WAS full. I do feel sad about the past several years, though. I feel that I could have tried harder to put my feelings aside and to meet his emotional/physical needs even though I was hurting but I was feeling like a door mat.

Anyway, we now have a child who is four. This summer, I started to wonder if something was going on with my husband. He kept bringing up the name of a woman from work. I was beginning to get suspicious and he was also displaying certain behaviors... Weight loss, caring about fitness, caring about his skin, etc. I requested that a locator service be put on his phone. He wasn't keen on it but he obliged. In late September, I could feel him pulling away from me. I could also feel an anger in him towards me. I truly began to fear that he was having an affair. I confronted him at the beginning of October and at that time, he told me he was thinking about leaving, that he loved me but didn't think he was "in love" with me, was angry about our lack of intimacy...physical and emotional...said that he thought that we should be further along in our marriage than we are since the first affair. He said that he wasn't sure if he wanted to seek counseling because we had gone to two years of counseling years ago. He said that he had little hope that our marriage could ever be different. I begged him not to leave and told him that there was TONS of hope for our marriage!! I told him that we had BOTH been complacent and that there had been many times especially in the past several months where I had sought him out and he had pushed me away. We spoke with a pastor and he spoke with his good, Christian friends about what was happening. We both decided to work on things and to give our marriage our ALL. The next several weeks were GREAT! We had tons of great physical intimacy. I even rented a room one night for fun. I kept the house super clean, made sure I looked pretty each day, complimented him often, etc. etc. etc. and he was extra kind to me, etc. At the end of October, I could feel him becoming distant again. I confronted him. Long story short, he admitted to having an affair that was physical and emotional. He told me that he appreciated my efforts the past several weeks but he said that he KNOWS that the problems are with HIM and NOT with ME. He said that he did not think that he wanted to work on the marriage and he left. He said that he had not decided whether or not to seek divorce and he was leaving to think about what to do. I begged him to stay and he left anyway. Before he left, he promised not to see or communicate with the OW as long as we were still married. He broke his promise that same night. He says that what is happening is ultimately his fault and is because of his selfish behaviors...although, I have begun to see blame shifting him him recently and a rewriting of history.

He has now been gone for over a month. He is staying with his dad and he is still seeing the OW openly and is not even trying to hide it. He has told me that he does not know what he is ultimately going to do and that he is still making his decision regarding our marriage. He says that he is on the fence about what to do. He says that one day he thinks he is coming home and the next he thinks that he is never going to come home. He says that he knows that what he is doing is wrong but he says that he is in too deep and doesn't know if he can get out and he isn't sure if he wants to. He has cut off almost all contact with his Christian friends and he has not returned the calls and emails of almost everyone who has tried to contact him about what he is doing. I have exposed him to his family, my family, all of our close friends, and all of our spiritual supporters. He has brought up the fact that he might want to seek out a pastor/counselor to flesh out some of his confusion and requested numbers of people who I would trust him to see. So, I have given him names and numbers and he has not contacted anyone even though he is still saying that he intends to. I do not see him taking any real steps towards reconciliation or towards breaking off his relationship with the OW. I have told him that he NEEDS to end the relationship with the OW without any hope of returning...his friends have told him the same thing. He says that he thinks he has no hope for himself or for our marriage. ALTHOUGH, I just KNOW that we would be in an entirely different ball game if he WASN'T in a relationship with another woman!!! He says that he KNOWS what he is doing is wrong but he isn't sure if he wants to choose what is right.

Before I even found this website or knew about "Plan A", I have been following a sort of a plan A thing on my own. I was doing the Plan A thing as soon as I found out that he was thinking about leaving back in the beginning of October. I have been trying to meet his emotional needs (he will not allow me to be very physical though since he has left...he says that he has had unprotected sex with the OW and doesn't want to expose me, etc. out of respect), I have lost a ton of weight, make sure that I look cute and that the house is clean when he comes to see our daughter, etc. He calls me or texts me usually a couple/few times per day to check up on my daughter and/or to arrange to see "us", (my daughter AND I) etc. He says that he feels like he is two different men right now...seeing me and our daughter, doing fun things with us (going to movies with us, to the mall, going out to dinner, etc.) AND he is seeing the other woman on the side. I have told him that while he is still making his decision, we should still try to keep our hearts open to one another and that is what I have been doing...and, that is what he has sort of been doing too. We hug when we see one another, there are lip kisses, we hold one another a bit, there is some hand holding. We have gone out to dinner a few times and have discussed the logistics of things if he decides on divorce but we have stopped talking about that. It's weird that he comes over to "see our daughter" and then ends up hanging out with me most of the time. Needless to say, he is giving me tons of mixed signals but is still claiming that he is still leaning towards divorce and I can feel the distance between us and the coldness towards me even though his texts almost always end with "love you" and so do his phone calls.

I do have several questions...

* What else could I be doing that I am not doing with Plan A? I have been reading a lot at this website already. I really want to do this correctly. I need some specific and practical ideas. My husband wants physical and emotional intimacy and affirmation if he agrees to stay in the marriage. I am trying to keep things friendly and amicable. At the same time, I am expressing to him that he needs to leave the OW before he can make a truly unbiased decision about our marriage. I have told him that I will take him back if he breaks if off with her, quits his PT job with her, etc. I have also told him that the two or three weeks when we were trying to work on the marriage, I really had a radical change in my physical desire for him...it sky rocketed during that time...and, my desire is genuine. It had been SO long since we had regular, great sex and I really missed him in that way. Now, I "want" him all of the time and he isn't even here. SO sad. : ( I did tell him about that. Should I be going to him at the point to apologize to him for years of putting my hurt before his needs and that if he comes back, I will promise to no longer do that? Would saying that be counter productive during Plan A? I been reading conflicting things about that in Plan A. I DO understand that despite it all, I do NOT deserve what is happening to me now. My husband acknowledges that I do not deserve what is happening to me. Also, I am seeing him on a fairly regular basis. We are doing things at least twice per week as a family and I am trying to keep things as friendly with him as possible while not being naive and maintaining a firm stand on his relationship with this woman...it MUST end. Any other ideas for me?

* My pastor thinks I should switch to a Plan B as soon as possible. He says that he thinks that I need to hand my husband over to himself and to his God and to have no contact with him except for emergencies and to speak briefly about our daughter. He says that right now, my husband is having his cake and eating it too while not breaking it off with the other woman or taking steps towards seeking counsel or true reconciliation. My pastor thinks that I am not doing myself or my husband any favors by keeping myself emotionally available to my husband at this time. I am not totally convinced about that. My fear is that if I cut my husband off too soon emotionally, that will END our marriage...if you cut my husband off, usually he will cut you off as well in his heart. The pastor DOES NOT see a benefit at this point to a Plan A and he has said that he thinks that I have already done all that I can do. Is he right? I'm not sure I am finished with Plan A. Is there anything else I could do in Plan A? Right now, my husband is saying that he APPRECIATES the fact that I am being so "cool" to him despite the circumstances. I don't know if I have the stomach to move to Plan B this close to the holidays. And, our 15th wedding anniversary is on January 6th. I'm not sure that I have the stomach to go through our anniversary with no contact. : ( Would it be okay to drag out Plan A a little bit longer? How do you know when it's truly time for Plan B?

Thanks for listening and thanks in ADVANCE for any replies. I really, really need some help here. God bless.

I know that this is long but I really need help. Bumping...

I just wanted to let you know someone has read your thread. It is slow on the weekends, but the "vets" on here will come around tomorrow most likely and will be able to help you. There are some wonderful people on here that will be able to offer you tons of MB advice and support. I have read so many threads on here and it amazes me how these complete strangers take the time to help others the way they do.

Have you gotten any of the books by the Harley's yet? "Surviving an Affair" is probably the first one you need to read and then there are others, but start there. They sell it on here or Amazon.

So welcome to MB, being a BS (betrayed spouse) it is probably the worse club to be part of, but you found the best site to join for awesome help and a program that really does work.

The thing I found when I first joined was the feeling that I was no longer alone in this horrible thing that had happened to me. I now had people to help me through it. People who had been through it, survived and saved their marriages.

Praying For You!!!

HU

Thank you so much. I am so devastated right now and I want to do the CORRECT things. You only get one shot at trying to save your marriage, I think and I have probably already done several "wrong" things within the past month. I need help! Thank you so much for your encouraging reply...I appreciate it!!

Prayin

I hope that the vets come here and help you. You sound as though you are being very strong, and i am sure with the right advice and guidance you are going to be ok.

Try to stay strong and brave and take care of yourself during this process.

Hi, pandp. I'm sorry to hear about the affair. Welcome to MB. I'm not a "vet" but I have read al the articles about infidelity on this site, and I will try and apply the advice from them to you questions.


An article here deals with a situation very similar to yours, where the couple has one four year-old child, the H is having an affair with a woman from work and he has moved out.

With respect to promising to meet the H's needs if he comes back, Dr Harley writes

I complement you on your willingness to work things out with your husband. You have had to put up with frustration, humiliation, and very hurt feelings to try to prevent your family from breaking up.

But you should acknowledge an important reason that he had the affair: You were not meeting at least one of his most important emotional needs. And because of his frustration, his feelings for you are not what they should have been. The woman he now loves met that need, and ended his frustration. If your marriage is to succeed, you will have to take her place in meeting that need.

The purpose of my Emotional Needs Questionnaire (that you can copy from my web site) is to help spouses identify their most important emotional needs so that they can learn to meet them for each other. While your husband is still separated from you, ask him to fill one out. He wants to save his marriage for the sake of your child, but you both need much more than that. You must learn to meet each other's most important emotional needs, and then you will have the marriage you have always wanted.

With regard to establishing no contact (NC) Dr Harley says that, if OW does not leave the job, the couple must move home and make a new start:

It is unlikely that your husband will be able to establish a meaningful relationship with you until his lover is no longer available to him. While she may be in a new location at work, I doubt that they will be able to avoid making contact with each other. So the first thing you and he need to discuss is moving to a place where he cannot make contact with her.

To provide an environment free of temptation to your husband, I usually recommend the drastic step of moving to another state. While that may sound impossible, or at least impractical, at first, moves are not all that unusual in America. In fact, it may give your marriage a whole new breath of fresh air. It will help you form a lifestyle that you both enjoy much more than the one you have now (using my Policy of Joint Agreement). And it will certainly make it difficult for your husband to keep his relationship with his lover alive. He can still do it, of course, but most addicts don't want to be addicted, and lack of easy availability is usually all it takes to break the habit.

Unfaithful husband: Letter no.1


From what I have read, there isn't a blueprint for Plan A. Dr Harley says that you should show willingness to meet the needs that your H will let you meet, but there are no precise steps described. I certainly think that your H is correct about not having unprotected sex with you as he has had that with OW. You should not have sex with him until the affair is over and you have both had full STD tests. But as for other things:

The first step is to be the very best wife you can possibly be. Do everything you can to meet his needs, and don't do anything to upset him. Set a period of time that you think you can do this without getting too upset, say, six months. Once in a while, tell him that you think both of you need a fresh start somewhere else.

Unfaithful husband: Letter no.3

I think you are following Dr Harley's advice very well. Other people here might come up with a few additional suggestions for Plan A, but it does not sound to me as if your H is continuing the affair because of anything you are not doing.

Dr Harley writes that Plan A only ends an affair on its own about 15% of the time. In the rest of cases, the BS must move to Plan B and wait for the affair to die by itself.


Your pastor is entirely correct about Plan A allowing your H to have his cake and eat it too. Dr Harley recognises that Plan A can have this effect, although he still recommends it where possible, to give a good impression of the BS before she moves to plan B. Your pastor is also correct to advise you to cut your H off fro your emotional support by doing Plan B. Remember, though, that there should be no direct contact AT ALL in Plan B; not even to speak briefly about your daughter. All messages must be passed through an intermediary.

The issue, I think, with Plan B, is when you should enter it. If you read again the section of Letter no.3 that I quoted above, you will see that, years ago, Dr H advised both men and women (BHs and BWs) to try Plan A for about six months. It was important to show consistent changed behaviour, if Plan B was eventually adopted.

However, Dr H has reduced the recommended amount of time that women (BWs) should stay in Plan A. He now says that the limit should be 3-4 weeks, because women find it more difficult emotionally to cope with the abuse of an ongoing affair than do men.

You appear to have done Plan A for about 3 weeks while your H was at home, and for another month since he left, so you have certainly reached Dr H's recommended time limit.

I understand your sorrow about Christmas and your anniversary. January 6th is about 4 weeks away, and it might not be harmful for your emotional health for you to continue for that time, making about 3 months of Plan A in total.

However, forcing your H to be without you over this crucial family time in the next few weeks could actually maker Plan B acutely painful for him, which would be a good thing. It would make him appreciate what he is missing. His loneliness without you and his daughter over Christmas might cause him to end the affair sooner rather than later. OW can fill some of his needs over that time, but not the need for family commitment. Only you can provide that. I think that moving to Plan B as soon as you can make financial arrangements and secure a intermediary would be a good thing. You would need to decide how to manage your H's contact with your daughter over Christmas and New Year. How long would it take to sort out these arrangements? One week, perhaps?

Your H might well cut himself off from you as a reaction to Plan B, but this will not be because you cut yourself off "too soon". It will be because Plan B is a risky strategy, as Dr H writes:

The problem with Plan B is that the unfaithful spouse may not return, nor agree to the plan for recovery, even after the affair has ended. Separation in marriage is always risky because, "out of sight, out of mind." Unless plan A leaves the wayward s spouse with the impression that returning home is an attractive choice, separation can become permanent.

What Are Plan A and Plan B?

I think you should be moving to Plan B before Christmas, but you also need to think beyond that, about moving away if OW does not. You cannot just accept your H back into the home because he says that affair has ended.

You need to work out your recovery conditions NOW, because they must be specified and given to your H in a Plan B letter. This lets him know what he must do if he wishes to return to the marriage.

Thank you, Harmony. I am trying to be strong and brave. It is difficult to get through hour by hour right now. Plan A is something I can stomach. I have A LOT of fear with Plan B.

Thank you SugarCane! Great reply!

He told me at the beginning of Oct. that he was thinking about leaving but did not give me more details of the relationship with the woman and agreed to work on the marriage at that time (he didn't decide to stop working on the marriage until the end of the month when he left) So, even though I started what looked like a Plan A during that time, we were still in the same home and working on things together so I guess I'm not technically considering that month to be in a FULL Plan A. Also, when I was reading about the reduced time for Plan A (possibly weeks for women instead of months) isn't that mostly to protect women who are having difficulty stomaching a LONGER Plan A? I just feel that since my hubby has been out of the house for the entire Plan A, we haven't had as much one on one time together for me to fully implement Plan A and I did not even know that there was anything called "Plan A" until the past few days when I began researching online. So that's another reason why I have been thinking about extending Plan A so that I can give it a true fair shot. What are your thoughts? Or anyone elses?

Also, I have been seeing a few signs which I *hope* are good results from Plan A (although I'm trying very hard not to get my hopes up). Tell me what you think... He is noticing my weight loss and has said a few things about it. He has also noticed my general appearance since I have been trying to look more "cute" when he is around and he has complimented me. When he first left, he was cold towards me when he would visit my daughter, etc. But since we have stopped actively talking about divorce and I have been avoiding topics that I know "rile him up" (I have STILL been telling him to END the affair, though yada yada) and I have really been working to meet emotional needs and keep things more "light" between us, I have noticed his attitude with me begin to soften a bit and to change. When he comes over to "see our daughter", he ends up spending most of his time with me. Many times we will be laying on our bed together with our daughter watching a movie and he will let me snuggle with him and he will put his arm around me sometimes and he has asked me to come along with him and my daughter when they go to the mall, etc. Last night, there was even a little bit of physical intimacy (he stopped me though for my own protection) but hugged me tight later on and before he left, he held me and ran his hands all down the sides of me (he loves the way that I feel now that I have lost a bunch of weight). He has also called me or texted me a few times without any "business" related reasons and has wanted a Christmas list from me, etc. I feel FOR SURE that if I would have switched to Plan B already, then NONE OF THIS WOULD BE HAPPENING and we would be in divorce proceedings. My husband is saying that he is still choosing and he is on the fence and is so confused and is thinking about coming home but is not sure. And, because of this, I am FRIGHTENED of switching to Plan B now or too soon. At the same time, though... I am fully aware that if my husband doesn't start making steps in the right direction or towards ending the affair, our marriage is going to end. I have TOLD HIM that the way that things are right now between us (the friendliness, the family outings, etc.) WILL come to an end if he chooses to divorce me. And I have also given him a heads up that this "limbo" cannot stand and that he will have to choose at some point and that his indecision in the end might be his decision. Also, I know that if I PUSH him right now to make a decision, he will most likely choose to leave and I don't want him to make a decision to stay and have it be half hearted.

Oh, another interesting tidbit... I had mentioned in my previous post that my husband had a brief work related affair at the beginning of our marriage with a woman at this FT job. He did continue at the job after the affair, he just worked in a different area and that actually did work. He did break it off with the OW at that time and did not continue in the relationship. Had other men at work be his accountability, etc. Yesterday, my husband did mention switching to a different area at his PT job...so, that is making me wonder if he is beginning to contemplate leaving the OW and is looking at taking steps to try to work out the logistics of that. Hmmmm...not sure though.

I have really contemplating what you have said regarding switching to Plan B NOW before Christmas. I definitely see your logic in that and that is something that I have considered too and I am still considering. I do feel that only allowing him to spend a part of Christmas with my daughter and without me might be difficult for him but I also worry about it giving him exactly what he wants...time with the OW, time with my daughter. I am also worried about my daughter and I want to allow her to possibly have one additional Christmas with both of her parents involved while her dad is deciding what to do about his marriage. My daughter's counselor thinks that while my husband is still "deciding", we should do as many things still as possible as a family of three (as many things as I can stomach) so that if my husband does stop the affair and return to his family, the transition will be more seamless and less confusing for my daughter and not as broken up. She thinks that we should try to keep the family together as much as possible now but if he decides to leave, then sit down and have a talk with our daughter at that time and then begin divorce proceedings if that is what my husband chooses. The counselor also mentioned keeping things as "normal" as possible right now for my daughter since my husband has not decided to divorce and she has recommended that he comes to our home for his visitation for the time being...just for this time of limbo. Also, I feel that since our 15th anniversary is the first week in January, it puts PRESSURE on him to a degree to make a decision before then while we are still in Plan A...because that is quite a landmark!! I was thinking though that if the PRESSURE of the upcoming anniversary did not work, I would pretty much have no other choice but to switch to Plan B after our anniversary.

As I have been thinking about what else I can possibly try to do during Plan A, I have been trying to decide about what to do to show him (and to tell him) that things WILL BE DIFFERENT between us physically if he comes home. I have tried to be very affectionate with him and I have told him that I had an "awakening" of sorts in October when we were working on our marriage before he left and before he told me about the full extent of the relationship with the woman at work (we had a lot of sex while we were working things out and then he left on Halloween). He is saying that he is not certain if I am being genuine. Should I be going BEYOND telling him (and showing him) that things will be different for us physically or should I actually be APOLOGIZING at this point for my lack of fulfilling his physical needs? I know that Harley had said not to take responsibility for the affair (I would not be) but should I be apologizing for my part in all of this during Plan A? I really want him to know that "I get it!"

You are right...I need to begin working on my Plan B letter now so that it's ready to go if and when I need it. Thanks so much for reminding me of that and for everything that you wrote!

First of all, so sorry that you are here P&P. There is great support here. Keep reading and learning and listening to those that post to you. SC gave you some excellent advise but you appear to not want to hear it. You appear to me to be petrified with fear. Not a good place to be when you have a cheating spouse.


Why in the h@ll is it his choice? Do you value yourself so little that you are just going to sit back and let him decide your future? This guy you are calling a husband has now cheated on you twice! Yet, you are going to let him decide whether or not you will still married? Seriously?

You need to stop succumbing to your fears and start acting from a place of strength. You need to show your WH that you are a strong woman and that you don't NEED him to survive. He is absolutely abusing you on a daily basis and you are just taking it with a big old smile on your face. I just don't get this at all.

You need to set some boundaries. First and foremost should be that you are not going to remain in a relationship with a WH that is actively cheating on you. It is absolutely time for Plan B. Quit making excuses as to why you can't do it. There is always another excuse just around the corner. It's time that you show your WH what he is going to lose. You have allowed him to cake-eat for way to long now.

Stop letting your fear of losing him cloud your better judgement. You are worth way more then the pathetic crumbs he is feeding you right now. Time to stand up for you!

Hello Mindshare. Thank you for your reply.

You are right, I am very fearful...I confess. I am fearful of Plan B because I feel that it could end my marriage...at the same time, I do know that unless WH chooses to end his affair now during Plan A, my only other choice will be Plan B. I do know that. I am just not certain if I should implement now or to wait a few more weeks.

You said, "Why in the h@ll is it his choice? Do you value yourself so little that you are just going to sit back and let him decide your future? This guy you are calling a husband has now cheated on you twice! Yet, you are going to let him decide whether or not you will still married? Seriously?"

My husband is cheating on me and he left because he wasn't convinced that he wanted to stay and work on our marriage but he said that he hasn't made a final decision as to what to do. He isn't sure if he wants to end the affair and come home to me and to his family or if he wants to continue in the affair and live a different life and divorce me. He says that he is totally on the fence. It seems to me like most people are here because they want to keep their marriages and their spouses are having affairs and have not decided whether or not to stay in their affairs to come home to their spouses/families. I am in that situation. I DO want my marriage and my husband...hence the desire to try Plan A and the Plan B before divorce...if he does a 180 and decides to do what is right, then I would like to continue in a marriage with him. I think that is what most people on this forum seem to want. I am new here, though so I might be wrong.

You said, "Quit making excuses as to why you can't do it. There is always another excuse just around the corner. It's time that you show your WH what he is going to lose. You have allowed him to cake-eat for way to long now."

I agree with you that there is always another excuse around the corner. You are right about that. I am trying right now to show WH what he has to lose...that is why I am in Plan A. I thought that Plan A was all about self improvement and also showing your spouse that both you and the marriage are worth committing to. We were working on the marriage together in October. Then, at the end of October he left. So, I have been in Plan A technically for a bit over one month. I have seen several positive effects of Plan A and that has left me with some fear about the sudden switch to Plan B.

You are right...I am really going to have to work through some fear so that I will be able to successfully implement a Plan B.

You need to read the Carrot and Stick thread by Pepperband. Right now, your plan is all Carrot and no Stick. This is why you have a terrible cake-eating WH. This dynamic will not change until you change it yourself.


http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2400725&page=1

Thank you mindshare. I have followed the "Stick" part, I think:

"Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth." DONE!! Friends, family members, pastors, etc. have all been told and several have spoken with WH directly.

"Not apologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way." DONE!!

"Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused." DONE...several times in may ways in person and in letter form.

"Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous." DONE...hubby knows and has been told that it was his choice to have an affair and that I did nothing to warrant an affair...I have told him this and so have others.

"Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous." He has lost most of his friends...I told him well, that's the way it is if you're going to cheat on your spouse and leave your wife and daughter. He can't see his daughter everyday, etc. etc.

"Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders." All of his checks are deposited into our account and he is allowed a very small stipend right now for food and he can slide his check card for gas and that is it. So, finances are protected and a plan is in place for that. I am protecting our child by taking her to counseling, etc. What other boundaries should I set? I feel as though Plan A IS a STICK, yes but there also needs to be a carrot and if we don't spend time together and try to nurture what is left between us and have him try to see and experience the changes that I am making and have special time together and avoid love busters and meet emotional needs, then how else do I offer the carrot?

"Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family." I have told him in person and have written him letters that state that what he is doing is WRONG and he must stop it NOW not only for the sake of his family of three but for himself and for his relationship with God.

Sadly, it seems as though you can be doing right things in Plan A and still cause a "cake eating" scenario...

"Sometimes a wayward spouse settles into a routine of having his or her cake and eating it too. In an effort to win the wayward spouse back, the betrayed spouse meets emotional needs that the lover cannot meet, while the lover meets emotional needs that the betrayed spouse has not learned to meet. While this competition is excruciatingly painful to the betrayed spouse, and the lover as well, the wayward spouse basks in the warmth of being loved and cared for by two people, with no real motivation to choose one over the other."

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html

I feel that there is cake eating but also, can positive signs of response during Plan A also be misinterpreted as cake eating? I have seen his soften and become a bit more affectionate, etc. as time has gone on during Plan A and that is making me think that I am winning him over in some ways which is good. However, sadly, I am not sure that I have seen him take deliberate steps towards ending the affair...and, that is why I may not have another choice but to move to Plan B soon.

You are making me think about a lot of things, guys and I appreciate that!

How have you guys implemented fufilling emotional needs during Plan A? Fulfilling Emotional Needs seems to be the real carrot of Plan A, correct? If your WH husband is still willing to go out to dinner with you, cuddle, etc. and laugh and do fun things together alone and as a family, that is okay, right? How can you meet Emotional Needs if you don't try to do these kinds of things during Plan A? Right now, WH seems to want to do these things with me (he is having an affair and has left but is contemplating coming back to his family...he isn't sure what to do).

Also, right now during Plan A, we are doing things still together with our daughter (he is also doing things with her alone) but I have told him that there will come a time when things will change in that regard (ie if I have to resort to plan B although I haven't told him about plan B of course or if there is a divorce, etc.) How did you handle family time and time with the kids during Plan A? There really is not a hostile or abusive environment between my husband and I...I am standing FIRM against the affair however.

The key pap is to have no expectations. Yes you can do all the things you mentioned but be clear and firm on your feelings of the A.

The no expectations thing is not easy. I have already been hurt by having expectations a couple of times during Plan A. And I am now guarding my heart since visiting this forum. It looks like you were in Plan A for a long time, Lookin4Serenity. Why so long? What made you decide to finally switch to Plan B?

It seems to me you are doing pretty well with plan A. You have a fairly good handle on it. No expectations takes practise of just doing the plan and doing it even when your instincts say not to.
I did a longish plan A....almost six months and went to B when I intellectually knew it was the right juncture and I could smoothly implement it and had put in one darn good plan A for a foundation to build on later on should my WH ever end his A.
It isn't easy going to B emotionally because you are used to being part of a marital team and even when it has been skewed by an A....it is still largely a team thing. A warped team thing but a team thing that is difficult to pull back from.
I have been in plan B for a little over a year but still have hope for my marriage. (I am dealing with a long time affair in my case which will take time to implode if it ever does and I am still game to follow the MB plan)

You are strategizing. I see that in your posts. You are afraid. I see that in your posts. You are a human being and that is par for the course.

Keep studying the plans. Keeps strategizing in your own unique case how to implement them.

I am not L4S, but you will notice that L4S is a BH. That means that there is a 6 month MAX for him.

I found MB last year and I did a Plan A until Dec 18th. I was advised to go into Plan B at that time to be most effective. I did it, and I don;t regret the timing at all.

I understand the fear. I can remember it. I can remember the night before my Plan B, I was at work and I broke down. I worried about EVERYTHING. I cried and cried. I was a horrible mess. I actually would need to go back and read my thread from that time and my journal so I could really remember how I felt. I have been in Plan B for almost 1 year now.

Plan B is of course a risk. BUT it is a risk I was willing to take because staying in a marriage with my WH while he was actively having an affair would have made me want to go to PLan D/FU in a real hurry. That is the thing with Plan B, you become more clear about your choices because you are not emotionally effected by the A on a day to day basis.

Now, you have seen some improvements in your WH after you have been in Plan A. that is good. That means that your Plan A is having some effect. The thing is, it is probably the opposite of what you think. It is more likely that your WH is becoming more comfortable with you because he is relishing in the cake-eating and because he believes that you are starting to come around. That's okay. A Plan B has ZERO effect without a good Plan A preceding it. That means that by his actions, you know that you have done a good Plan A and you can move on to Plan B.

The suggestion is usually made to go into Plan B BEFORE the holidays because part of Plan B is that you want to show the WS what life would be like without you. Get everything worked out and get into plan B.

My Mar plan A date was based on my behavior prior to finding this website. It was kinda plan A but not perfect. LBs and such. A real plan A didn't start until Aug or so. Plan B was implemented because WW continued to see OM. She was cake eatingwhile I was doing plan A. Plan B has not been stellar and has been broken several times. If you do go into plan B treat it like bible. Don't break it. It has set me back more than once and looking back I wished I had had a stronger committment to stick to it. If you do it, DON'T BREAK IT. When you initiate plan B you must be ready to accept the consequnces, one of which could be divorce. You have to decide that you're willing to take the risk and accept it. Plan B is not only an attempt at saving your marriage but as a spin off you'll be emotionally ready for D, if it comes to that, because you've not been speaking with or seeing your WH, and you've been taking care of yourself.

Thanks guys. Did you apologize for things that you regret doing or not doing during your marriage while you were or are in Plan A? Of course, I realize that I did NOTHING to deserve an affair and I can see that in my Plan B letter to my spouse, I should be apologizing there but should I also be expressing regret to my spouse NOW during Plan A that I did not fulfill his needs the way that I could have and that I would change things if he dumps OW and returns to his marriage?

Looking4Serenity, I haven't done a perfect Plan A either because I didn't even know that there was such a thing until the past couple of days. So, even though I've sort of been doing a Plan A for about a month on my own, I know that I haven't done everything that I SHOULD probably do in Plan A because I didn't even though what I really should do until the past couple of days. So, now I'm playing catch up and trying to fit things in. And, also, that's why I might want to take Plan A through the holidays. If I move to Plan B, I know the risks, so I want to make sure that I do everything possible in Plan A so that I won't have any regrets once I move forward with Plan B. I am only seeing WH a couple/few times per week right now and much of that time is shared with our daughter so that is another reason why I am thinking of taking this Plan A a few weeks longer.

Thank you reading and scotland. I have reread your posts several times...they are thoughtful and appreciated!! I am bumping for the sake of two questions:

* Did you apologize for things that you regret doing or not doing during your marriage while you were or are in Plan A? Of course, I realize that I did NOTHING to deserve an affair and I can see that in my Plan B letter to my spouse, I should be apologizing there but should I also be expressing regret to my spouse NOW during Plan A that I did not fulfill his needs the way that I could have and that I would change things if he dumps OW and returns to his marriage?

* Also, during Plan B, if you had children involved in extracurricular activities or sports, how did you handle that? If my husband and I WERE To actually divorce, we WOULD both still plan on attending our child's extracurricular stuff...gymnastics, etc. I think it's in the best interest of our daughter to have both of her parents there to support her to root her on, etc. Have you and your WS both showed up and have just sat in separate places and have not spoken during plan B?