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TheRoad #2446793 11/27/10 06:54 PM
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The "glass floor" has failed the past 2 days, and I'm spiraling again.

Fuuuuuuuu........


I don't know what to do when I'm up to my neck in anger and pain. Just holding tight hasn't worked yet, and the last time I tried that, I was in it for 5 days sinking deeper and deeper.

I can't complain about the present, FWW works her tail off trying to keep me out of this, sometimes it's just not enough. I don't think the family invasion for the holiday has helped.


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Hi there,
I can hear your frustration and I can relate, it's such a roller coaster for the BS's.
It's because we try to make sense of someone else's decision, we can't do that, we will go around and around a million times trying to figure out some logical reason it all happened.
This is not our decision to feel responsible for, we didn't make the decision, it's not ours to feel bad about...........
Our past is gone it's up to us to make a different life now, a happy one, let go of the old one, it's never going to be like that again.........
Don't dwell, live just for today and tomorrow.............
Remember the big picture......


BW 56
WH 57
Married 25 years, live together for 2, dated 2 years before that.....
DS 23, DS 25
D-Day Nov 23/09
NC Mar 1/10
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Originally Posted By: jessitaylor
Hi there,
I can hear your frustration and I can relate, it's such a roller coaster for the BS's.
It's because we try to make sense of someone else's decision, we can't do that, we will go around and around a million times trying to figure out some logical reason it all happened.
This is not our decision to feel responsible for, we didn't make the decision, it's not ours to feel bad about...........
Our past is gone it's up to us to make a different life now, a happy one, let go of the old one, it's never going to be like that again.........
Don't dwell, live just for today and tomorrow.............
Remember the big picture......


Thanks, Jess.

I'm far over trying to rationalize. I'm over looking for my fault and blame in her decision. That is why it is now anger instead of pain.

I hurt when I felt like I had failed. Yes, I had my shortcomings, but that was more related to a work schedule, and allowing myself to be last on the "to-do" list each and every day.

By the time I started posting, the time for self-blame had ended. I suppose that the bargaining phase of grief was over. I have no reason to return to that.

What I struggle with now, I suppose, is PoRH. I have a hard time being currently and emotionally honest. I spend so much damn time being angry, and unable to escape that anger... but I won't tell FWW that I am angry until I can't hide it any more.

I'm being a protective liar. I'm protecting her from knowing about it, and protecting myself from her attempting to explore or understand my anger.

There is nothing to explore, nothing to understand. There is nothing there that can be "fixed" with anything outside of time, care, and protection.

Thankfully, I haven't allowed it to take me to a point of shunning her or shutting her out, and I don't think she would allow it if I ended up trying.

I've seen some WS's explaining the "endurance" of a BS "winning them back." I feel reversed from that. She checked out enough to have an A, but it's me that has to be "won back" at this point.

She has apologized to me several times. I don't find it unattractive, or pathetic. In fact, I'm beginning to find those apologies finding cracks in my psyche.

She told me the other night how much she wanted my forgiveness... in that moment I wanted to tell her that I did forgive her, just to ease her pain, but even as the words formed in my mind, I knew that I don't yet. The desire to is there as it has been the whole time, but the actual feeling of forgiveness isn't there yet.

It's building, and she's doing well.


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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HHH,

I did what you were thinking of,,,,said I forgave him when I really didn't....then the anger came and I could not understand why. Here I was a Christian and I am suppose to forgive, right? How do you forgive this?

I know I have read many stories on here about couples that come out stronger and seem happy and that is what I am praying for.

HU


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HalfUnit #2447848 12/01/10 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted By: HalfUnit
HHH,

I did what you were thinking of,,,,said I forgave him when I really didn't....then the anger came and I could not understand why. Here I was a Christian and I am suppose to forgive, right? How do you forgive this?

I know I have read many stories on here about couples that come out stronger and seem happy and that is what I am praying for.

HU



The only way we will know, is if we put the work in, and give it the time to do so.

2-5 Y-E-A-R-S.

I often have to remind myself of that time frame.

I think I'm hitting a bad rage phase.

I triggered last night when we went to Walmart to buy her some thermal pants. She wears them to work in the winter time to keep warm. I think that, with the impending approach of the anniversary of the A is building up on me.

I am so. angry. So, so, so, so, so, so angry.

We took a bath when we got home, and she tried to initiate SF... physically, I couldn't respond. It's one thing as a man that you can't "fake" or "hide."

She told me that I could "yell at her" if it made me feel better, but I refused. There's just nothing to talk about.

Upped my B intake - might be enough to keep me from going Hiroshima, but it hasn't been enough to keep it away.

BLEARGH!!!!!!

Quote:
One should rather die than be betrayed. There is no deceit in death. It delivers precisely what it has promised. Betrayal, though ... betrayal is the willful slaughter of hope.


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
HalfUnit #2447862 12/01/10 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted By: HalfUnit
HHH,

I did what you were thinking of,,,,said I forgave him when I really didn't....then the anger came and I could not understand why. Here I was a Christian and I am suppose to forgive, right? How do you forgive this?

I know I have read many stories on here about couples that come out stronger and seem happy and that is what I am praying for.

HU



Not every, but many BS's enter an anger phase which lasts about six months.

This phase usually starts at about six months past D day.

TheRoad #2448081 12/02/10 09:52 AM
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The only advice I have is to be honest and don't stuff your feelings. I've been having the same cycle with my BH for over a year. One minute he is madly in love with me and the next he is asking for a divorce.

The problem with this is that I am tempted to "protect" myself from the good stuff so the fall isn't so hard. In MB terminology it is tempting to close my love bank from deposits so he can't make withdrawls. I know this is wrong and thus far have avoided it but it is hard work.

We talked last night and I told him that he needs to be honest with himself and not say the "I love yous" and show affection unless it is genuine. I even said we have had this divorce discussion before and we end of in each other's arms with him apologizing. Then.....guess what?....he ended up holding me and apologizing!

I do not think he can make a rational decision about recovering our marriage unless he at least honestly explores his other options. I am trying to make this easy for him and not demand that any of my needs be met. I'm just not sure how long this should be. Prior to my A I was never honest about my needs. I consistently DJ'd him and assumed he wouldn't/couldn't do something for me. I am trying not to do that now. I just can't quite get the balance of giving him the opportunity to meet my needs without demanding that he do so

I feel like a kid at Christmas. How do you ask for what you want without being selfish and demanding? When you get something you don't want, how do you express it so the person doesn't make the same mistake again?

"Grandma, I gave up playing with dolls 6 years ago, get with the program."

Sorry for the TJ. Your thread is really helping me to understand my BH and I am aspiring to be like your wife who seems to instively get it right.

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Originally Posted By: sunnydaze53
The only advice I have is to be honest and don't stuff your feelings. I've been having the same cycle with my BH for over a year. One minute he is madly in love with me and the next he is asking for a divorce.

The problem with this is that I am tempted to "protect" myself from the good stuff so the fall isn't so hard. In MB terminology it is tempting to close my love bank from deposits so he can't make withdrawls. I know this is wrong and thus far have avoided it but it is hard work.

We talked last night and I told him that he needs to be honest with himself and not say the "I love yous" and show affection unless it is genuine. I even said we have had this divorce discussion before and we end of in each other's arms with him apologizing. Then.....guess what?....he ended up holding me and apologizing!

I do not think he can make a rational decision about recovering our marriage unless he at least honestly explores his other options. I am trying to make this easy for him and not demand that any of my needs be met. I'm just not sure how long this should be. Prior to my A I was never honest about my needs. I consistently DJ'd him and assumed he wouldn't/couldn't do something for me. I am trying not to do that now. I just can't quite get the balance of giving him the opportunity to meet my needs without demanding that he do so

I feel like a kid at Christmas. How do you ask for what you want without being selfish and demanding? When you get something you don't want, how do you express it so the person doesn't make the same mistake again?

"Grandma, I gave up playing with dolls 6 years ago, get with the program."

Sorry for the TJ. Your thread is really helping me to understand my BH and I am aspiring to be like your wife who seems to instively get it right.


By all means, TJ. Part of the reason I even continue my own thread is in the hopes that it will somehow also help others. Contributing to other people is a human need as well.


So, I did nuke again last night. Another 3+ days of spiraling anger. There isn't so much pain, but anger. I did try, finally, to just talk about what I was feeling. I talked to her about my feeling of loss, about what I feel that I've lost.

It's a funny thing. I kind of envy FWW. Her actions did not cost her the innocence and trust in her love for me, but mine is gone. I'm not sure I'll ever have it back. Maybe... maybe I will. Maybe in 10 years, 20... maybe one day the shock, anger, and loss will be nothing more than a distant memory.

I really only mentioned divorce once - I said I want to divorce until we recover, and then remarry. I wanted to throw away what was broken, and build something completely new. It was because the A, to me, invalidated all the years, every day, up until she crossed the line. Once I mentioned leaving to "figure myself out." By that time, we had started reading the online articles here... so she had ammo. I lost that battle. Can't say I regret that.

She sometimes says she wishes that I would just RA her "even if it was just a ONS." Last night, she mentioned it again. To what end? I told her that it would accomplish nothing. We wouldn't be "even" and she still wouldn't understand me any better. Her guilt would tell her, despite what anyone else would try to say, that she deserves it. Nobody deserves this agony. There would be no telling her different, and I know this.

So, I feel better after talking to her - but it wrecks her so bad when I do. On the other hand, when I don't, it seems like it wrecks her just as bad. So, I can't really do good either way. I'm trying to learn to better shape how I talk with her when I get this way, so that I don't feel like I'm some sort of abusive [censored].


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Sounds like you did a good job. I think for me I would rather have the radical honesty than have to "guess" at what he is feeling. It is like walking around in the dark not knowing where the next step will lead.

Me being "wrecked" is a consequence of my actions and it is almost a relief when it happens. It is the only time I feel like we are being real.

So much before, during and after the affair was a facade on both our parts. I just can't do that anymore.

The thing I need is for him to be vulnerable, the last thing he wants to do is be vulnerable...especially to me. Sucks any way you look at it.

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ITA with sunny. I'd much rather my H be honest with me than shut me out. I hate it. His withdrawal is killing me. Sometimes with Plan A I feel like I am walking around trying to pretend everything is great, "la-de-da-ti-da!!!" (whatever, I can't sing) And H is sitting there miserable, shut tight in the walls of this fortress I can't breach.

You can't spare your FWW from being "wrecked," sunny's right, it is a consequence of our actions. I read on another thread here about how it wasn't fair to "protect" the WS (or FWS, for that matter) from the consequences of their actions.

I'll take what sunny said re: vulnerability and apply it to my M - what I need for my H is for him to be O&H with me...but how can he be O&H with someone who betrayed his trust so badly?

It does suck. Totally.


FWW

"Snow and adolescence are the only problems that disappear if you ignore them long enough." ~ Earl Wilson
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Thanks ladies.

Not like it's the first time that both of you have told me this. Among others.

I just keep banging my head into it.


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

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When the water is cold...we all know the best way to get in is to jump.

But who really wants to do that?

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I realized after nuking this last time, that her willingness, her ability to stand in the fire is really winning my love and respect.

She tells me that it makes her admire me? WHAT? Well, even when it's that bad - pain and anger - I am being OPEN with her.

It's fear closing me off. Fear of hurting her. Fear of driving her away. Fear that she is just going to look at me and say "What? You're not over it YET?"

Back to The Notebook, I think:

Quote:
I'm not afraid to hurt your feelings. You have like a 2 second rebound rate, then you're back doing the next pain-in-the-ass thing.


Quote:
So it's not gonna be easy. It's gonna be really hard. We're gonna have to work at this every day, but I want to do that because I want you. I want all of you, forever, you and me, every day.


It's also a DJ to assume that being open with her is going to hurt her, or that she won't be able to handle that hurt.


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Originally Posted By: HeadHeldHigh
I realized after nuking this last time, that her willingness, her ability to stand in the fire is really winning my love and respect.

She tells me that it makes her admire me? WHAT? Well, even when it's that bad - pain and anger - I am being OPEN with her.

It's fear closing me off. Fear of hurting her. Fear of driving her away. Fear that she is just going to look at me and say "What? You're not over it YET?"

Back to The Notebook, I think:

Quote:
I'm not afraid to hurt your feelings. You have like a 2 second rebound rate, then you're back doing the next pain-in-the-ass thing.


Quote:
So it's not gonna be easy. It's gonna be really hard. We're gonna have to work at this every day, but I want to do that because I want you. I want all of you, forever, you and me, every day.


It's also a DJ to assume that being open with her is going to hurt her, or that she won't be able to handle that hurt.




Haven't spiraled or nuked in... 2 weeks?


Something like that...

Yay?


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Music post today.

Early on in all this crap, FWW went out of town with a friend of hers for a weekend of city-hopping thrift shopping.

With time to myself, I went out and bought running shoes, and a song came on the radio that resonated with me very strongly.

It currently stands as my favorite song, and is FWW's ringtone for me.



Bury all your secrets in my skin,
Come away with innocence and leave me with my sins.
The air around me still feels like a cage,
And love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage... again.

So if you love me let me go,
And run away before I know.
My heart is just too dark to care
I can't destroy what isn't there.

Deliver me into my fate,
If I'm alone I cannot hate.
I don't deserve to have you.
Ooh, my smile was taken long ago,
If I can change I hope I never know.

I still press your letters to my lips,
And cherish them in parts of me, that savor every kiss.
I couldn't face a life without your lights,
But all of that was ripped apart when you refused to fight

So save your breath, I will not care.
I think I've made it very clear.
You couldn't hate enough to love.
Is that supposed to be enough?

I only wish you weren't my friend
Then I could hurt you in the end

I never claimed to be a saint,
Ooh, my own was banished long ago,
It took the death of hope to let you go.

So break yourself against my stones,
And spit your pity in my soul.
You never needed any help,
You sold me out to save yourself.

And I won't listen to your shame,
You ran away, you're all the same.
Angels lie to keep control.
Ooh, my love was punished long ago,
If you still care don't ever let me know
If you still care don't ever let me know

Last edited by HeadHeldHigh; 12/18/10 06:16 PM.

"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Wow, HHH, I'd have to say I share some of your feelings, but at the same time we are opposites. Thank you for your story and support on my posts. Merry Christmas!


B.W.{Me}- 28
W.H.- 32
M-8 years
2 kids
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Christmas eve survival plan; climb inside a bottle of whiskey and smile...


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Don't climb in, wet your lips a little. Find a talk show on the radio to fall asleep to. Tomorrow is another day needing you to be strong to fight.

TheRoad #2456658 12/26/10 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted By: TheRoad
Don't climb in, wet your lips a little. Find a talk show on the radio to fall asleep to. Tomorrow is another day needing you to be strong to fight.


Needed a break from strong. Had a little silly instead.

2 days in the spiral before Xmas, back into it after.

No nukes, no nukes, no nukes!!!

Which actually feels like it works against me. It's now expected that I "talk it out" when I crash, but I just have a hard time seeing the use.


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Good band. I prefer some of their earlier stuff.

Soooo...I pulled out my handy dandy Android phone and clicked on Gtunes and downloaded a bunch of their other songs off that album. let's see if I like it.

Last edited by kilted_thrower; 12/27/10 09:35 PM.

Husband (me) 39
Wife 36
Daughter 21
Daughter 19
Son 14
Daughter 10
Son 8 (autistic)

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