That was exactly my point in my reluctance to expose in the first place. WW has been vocal about being unhappy in the M for the last 4 years with her family. She has threatened divorce/separation at least 1/2 dozen times during that time and it has always been because she is lonely. It also happens to be when some OM is paying attention to her.

WW has been treated for postpartum depression since the birth of our 2nd child (6). Family doc says you need to see a specialist to continue treatment. She went once and didn't like what the psychologist had to say so changed family docs to get a refill on the same old script.

I have explained her problems with drinking in some detail. Although I do not think she is an alcoholic I do believe she is a problem drinker. Alcohol has always been a sore subject for her (even when we dated) and she refuses to get any help for this.

WW says her F is an alcoholic and has had multiple affairs on WW M when WW was growing up and WW still has hatred for her F for this.

WW works in a cesspool of adultery and all of the friends she has not driven away in the last 2 years have had A on their H before divorce. Her current BF is going through a nasty divorce that could be the exact replica of what WW is currently doing. WW BF had an affair with a EMT and her H exposed to both places of employment. Because her BF H was such a bad person (he really does have some issues so I can not defend him too much) my WW helped her friend out by giving her a cellphone to continue the A with the EMT so her H could not track it. My WW assisted in her BF A!

I have come to realize that I don't need any more proof about what is happening with OM1, WW texts enough during the day that I know all I need to know. I do have electronic copies of my WW sextmessage fest on FB with OM2 and pictures of text messages begging OM3 to "meet her" when she was drunk. I also have copies of messages to a different OM from 2 years ago.

This is not the woman that I fell in love with. That built a family with me. She has not been for at least the last 2 years, maybe more. Our mutual friends have all abandoned her saying she just isn't who she used to be. I have let days of apparent happiness overshadow months of misery.

I have sent an e-mail to the Harleys explaining my story and asking for advice on exposure and Plan A / Plan B and will try to hear what they have to say. I just lived a Plan A for 6 months this Spring and won my wife back. I believe my lack of knowledge on meeting needs at the time and a possible depression over her A that I avoided created intimacy with her and she moved into a new A in just 3 months. I do not think I have the fight in me to expose or live out any type of Plan A again.

Please don't think I am hiding the A, I have told my own family, even grandma who is 76! I have not told my kids yet... when I shared this information with my own parents I found out about an affair in their relationship that happened when I was a kid and it still knocked me on my [censored] at 32! All mutual friends know what happened this Spring and what is going on now. No one can even comprehend why I would think Plan B.

I still have love in my heart for this woman, I still want to raise our family together! The two things that matter most to me in this world are trust and family. I can not continue to let WW control me anymore and I can not change her into the woman I want her to be, or even the woman she used to be. Unless she desires change then change will not come.

My only hope for this marriage is a DARK Plan B. (I know, I know, I should have listened to that advice on page 1 of this thread!) I hope this is progress on my part, when I came here I still believed in my WW Divorce Fantasy where we would all be great friends "for the kids". That Divorce Fantasy is no longer an option... I don't believe in divorce, I believe in a marriage without adultery.

I will post again soon with my Plan B letter but any links or advice that can be offered until then would be great. As always, thank you for your feedback.

While reading another thread I came across this...


I talked to Joyce today and will be on MB Radio next week. I am looking forward to this call. The advice that Dr. H gave in the above segment with timing exposure with Plan B seems almost doable to me. I hate this constant internal tug-of-war. Not knowing what to do or how to do it. I look forward to a day of peace when I don't question and re-question my every action.

I have been rereading my thread...


A mutual friend called me yesterday and asked me the name of a park we had gone to on a couples outing 3 years ago. This brought back a memory from that day when my wife told me she had kissed another man at a party. She was in tears and said "If you want to divorce me I understand, but I am sorry and I want to stay married to you".

This hit me like a ton of bricks yesterday...has this PHYSICAL behavior really been going on and off for 3 years now? WW must have seen the look on my face and asked me what was wrong and I calmly told her about the question and the resurfacing of the memory. She said that she has been unhappy for a long time and that she can not be hurt by me anymore. She said that when she wants attention from me I am the only one she wants attention from but when she does not get what she wants from me she will take it where she can get it.


She still very much wants a divorce, she said that I deserve better than her and that she deserves better than me.


My WW needs A LOT of attention. When we are doing well we are texting 50+ times a day to each other. When we are not doing well she is texting someone else that same amount meanwhile my phone stays quiet all day. When I thought we were getting better for a few months this summer I was spending ALL of my time focusing on wooing her... it was exhausting and when I pulled back my efforts she went right into finding that attention from other places.

One thing that she said yesterday was that I make all the decisions without her. She had used me reading "His Needs, Her Needs" without out her as an example of this. Do my plans at present just reinforce this point for her?

My plans at this point were to...

[1] Talk to an attorney to protect my rights
[2] Retain and Plan B (offering exposure to WW family as my reason for Plan B)
[3] Hope for a day that without me in her life at all she realizes that I am a good father, husband, and provider and that we both have to make changes to build a marriage that can work

Lastly from WesH's thread...

Can a serial adulator change their ways? Is there a point where Plan D makes more sense then Plan B?

Hey Paladad,

Just simply Happy New Year and my best wishes that your ww will become receptive to your efforts the next year! Regardless of whether she has Om2, Om5, or whoever. Exposure will not drive her away, it will cause her to respect you again.

Tom

Thank you Tom. Happy New Years! It would be nice to be respected again. I am not even sure I respect myself half the time anymore. I am still very much fence sitting with the exposure piece. My father threatened me when I talked to him about exposure to the kids...

I am almost convinced I will expose to WW family when starting Plan B. Saddly none of the OM I feel I could expose have W and I still need help with work exposure. All of the OM are connected to work do I write 1 letter saying this guy is doing this with WW that guy is that with WW?

Baby steps...

WW has been sleeping on the sofa bed for 2 months now. When she said she wanted a divorce in November she moved to the sofa bed. At first we rotated between the sofa bed and our bedroom so neither of us would have to suffer. For the past month or so I have had the bedroom and she has had the sofa bed.

Last night she said that she has been getting headaches and her back and neck hurt and that she would like to start rotating again. I said no. I have never said no to her requests like this before, but I said no.

She said "This is just you being you and ^%^$ everyone else right?"

I said "No, this is me taking a stand for me. You are welcome to return to our bed anytime you would like but I will not be leaving it again. I never asked you to leave it and I would be happy for your return."

We went on to discuss other things about where we are and how we got here again. I had even said that "I am not ok with you having 'male friends' because you have no boundaries with your 'male friends'." Again, I have never said anything about her friends because I did not want to push her away. She had actually said "Good, you should not be ok with it."

I did not like to see WW crying when she said she did not want to sleep on the couch anymore, and I do not think this conversation will have changed the grand scheme things but if felt good to take a stance for myself and what I want and not waver.

OK, so playing with the idea of exposure to in-laws. I see this happening at the same time Plan B goes into effect.

Dear MIL/FIL/BIL/SIL,

I believe that you know my intent has always been to save my marriage with WW. Over the past 3 years I have put everything I have of myself into building a better life for WW, the children, and me. I have made some successes, I am a better father, a better provider, I have even managed to grow my relationship with your family. Sadly the thing I have worked for most, a better relationship with WW has continued to evade my grasp.

I have taken blame for all problems in our relationship and have always hoped that if I can just change me enough then somethings would never have to be shared with anyone outside of my marriage.

It is with a heavy heart that I write this letter to you. I have come to learn that keeping these things to myself does not cause them to go away, it causes them to get worse. For the past 3 years WW has looked outside of our marriage to have some of the needs I should have been able to meet for her. This includes both emotional and physical affairs with multiple men over that time. I do not want to share any details but have them if you have doubt of my words. I am not telling you this to hurt you or tarnish WW reputation but to ask for your help.

I have done everything I can to get WW to commit to our relationship and have succeeded for short periods of time. We have found a wonderful marriage counselor that I believe can help us, but help is not possible until these relationships with other men end.

Our marriage has failed, however, I do not believe that it has to end. Truly my goal in asking for your assistance to encourage WW to end these other relationships is so that we can work together with the marriage counselor to rebuild a better relationship for WW, our children, and I.

I look forward to the day when this dark day is behind us.
Paladad

Am I on the right track here?

Great letter but you need to expose to everyone not just in-laws I'm talking all family members, friends, co-workers, neighbors, etc...trickle exposure will not cut it you need to go nuclear. But great letter use that and email it to EVERYONE!!

Man, I'll bet she was pissed to see that her tears didn't work on you! Good job standing firm.

Sadly MB she did get mad for a second then she called for a time out on discussing "us" and asked if I would like to watch a movie on the couch. We did and sat under a blanket together then she asked me to tuck her in. The past 3 days she has asked for hugs and sent more communication to me than normal.

I just found out yesterday that she had talked to OM2 (the one she said she stopped talking to and wore no panties for). I have not said anything to her but truely these false attempts to get close to me again causes both physical and mental anguish.

I think that is why I realize I have nothing to loose to exposure. My marriage is over and nothing I have ever done has fixed it. I have heard so often on this board that my marriage can survive my WW anger, it can not survive her affairs

Does exposure include contacting the OM(s)? What do you say to them?

Can someone help me with work exposure. Here are things I feel need to be addressed...

WW - ER Nurse

OM1 - EMT - no concrete proof. I do have text message records showing an increase of 300 messages in October to 2100 in November, and 2500 in December. I have dates and times that show at least 50 messages PER DAY to/from being sent while WW is at work (Also I only have first name and Nextel Cell Phone number, I do not know last name)

OM2 - Physicians Assistant - not employed by hospital but contracted to work there. I have text messages of WW telling him she wore no panties for him and begging him to meet her. (He said no because he was angry she was making out with a stranger when she was drunk - this makes me laugh...really OM2, you are mad because WW cheated on you? It still makes me mad that WW appologized to him for this and not to me)

Also are there legal concerns about exposing any of this to their HR departments?

Hello Paladin...er...Paladad...*s*

First of all I hope you are as well as can be in this beginning of the new yaar.

You seemed to have started our very strong but now seem to be wavering.

"Does exposure include contacting the OM(s)? What do you say to them?" Do I even need to suggest that you need to envision yourself as an OT (offensive tackle) on the Packers who has just seen some 'lil old defensive cornerback get lucky on a blitz and twirl around your block to get into your backfield to sack your quaterback, and now this 'lil old 5'9 cornerback is lining up to try it again on the next play? What do you do? You flatten him to protect your QB (wife) - not literally, but emotionally, morally, and socially!

Please do not thing that your marriage is lost until the game is over.

Good luck Wes,

Tom

LOL, thank you Tom. Strength does waver from day to day.

I have friends that can get relative info so once I have OM1 last name I intend to write letters to his parents as well as his place of employment.

My question was do I talk to him? I have seen conflicting information in other posts that I should contact him, and that I should avoid him because of the pain it may cause me personally.

I am not sure if OM1 is aware of OM2, or anyone knows about OM3 - OM5. Part of me wants to expose them all to each other but a good friend told me yesterday that for guys like this married women are the perfect target because there is little risk of consequence to them because married women aren't going to tell anyone.

Would these guys even care that there are other OM? That is why my plan was to focus on the OM employer/family.

Hi Paladad,

As far as direct contact, I would do it. Simply because you have the right to and oblication as husband/father. That is, if there is no risk on your part of of a serious confrontation with any of them.

Please do not assume going into this that any of the OM's know about the other. They are all mutually exclusive in my opinion. Nor, should you care if any of them know the other. And, I don't believe that any of them would care if there are others if they can get the time with your W! Would you, if you were in this situation, and feel they will stll 'get it' from her?

Ya know what Paladad, and this is due to your W. I have to say that you are in a difficult situation in terms of the stories that I have seen here on MB. Most BH's face one OM. Your W has lost so much respect for herslelf that she has allowed you to be challenged from every side. You honestly must feel like you are defending the Alamo! I am not being facetious, but just my gut feeling. On the other hand, I firmly believe that all women lose respect for their guys very quickley (H's or significant others) if they are not fought for. Of course, this assumes they are not suffereing from another addiction, which I belive your W is.

I am very happy that you did attend Al-anon, and hope you keep going and establish a support group there. Those are the people who can truely advise you if your wife is now alcoholic or could be, and how that affects her emotions and judgement at this time.

I truely wish taht Melody, Marital, Constant, Sapphire, and a few others here would get on board with you at this time. Please keep in mind that my advice is from gut and heart and not based on any MB or other counseling principles.

Tom

I have been to the Alamo, it was a nice place to visit, but I sure don't want to live there. I do indeed feel that way. I try to make light of it and say that I am such a great H that it takes 4 OM to replace me

I still think that nuclear explosion will make me look like a crazy [censored] but nothing else I have ever done has worked for more then a few months at a time.

Planning for E-Day. I talk to the Harley's this week...

1. Letter to WW Family Written
2. Working on Letter to WW & OMs POE (Still need OM1 LN)
3. Pulled Phone Logs (2600 texts to/from OM1 (just a friend) in Nov, 1600 in Dec)
4. Photographic Evidence of WW telling OM2 "I wore no panties for you and please meet me"
5. Photographic Evidence of WW & OM3 Facebook Sex Chat

And for Tom, my text message to OMs after E-day (I don't want to give them prep time for when exposure hits them)...

Hello OM, my name is Paladad. I am WW HUSBAND. As your adulterous relationship to WW is a threat to my family I thought it was important to introduce myself to you.

I am sure you have heard lots of wonderful things about me already. Did you know that I have been with and faithful to WW for 12 years now? Did you know that we are still very much married and not in any stages of divorce? Or the names of our 3 children? S9, D6, and D5.

Do you remember being their age? Can you think back to your own parent's marriage when you were that age? What do you think you would have thought about a man that tried to take your mother away from your father when you were that age?

Although your adulterous relationship to WW shows me your lack of respect for my children, women, family, and marriage in general I would be happy to share my thoughts on any of those things with you.

1 more piece of evidence to above post. One night right after WW said she wants a D she came home from work an hour late. Went right to bedroom and took of scrub pants and underwear and kicked them under the bed. I dug them out the next day and there was a hard white stain in the croch of the underwear.

I am no expert but I do laundry and this was not an everyday mark in the pair I dug out. I of course kept them hidden. This is now over a month old but I am wondering about DNA testing if this ever does go to court. Can this be used as evidence? Can I get testing done now? Anyone with experience in anything like this would be great. Thanks!

There is a semen test kit you can get - just google it.

I have seen the kits that tell you what it is. I am more curious in using it to find out who's it is. I have heard it is hard to prove adultry. I know NY offers divorce on adultery (which is still not my goal), I don't have any pictures of them together and the PI I talked to wanted $1,000 up front and $50/hour.

All the test will determine is that it isn't you, which you've probably figured out already. If you want to figure out which of OMn it is, you'd need to do DNA testing on each of them (got a known sample?) and then have a lab match it up.

Have you put a VAR and GPS tracker on her car yet?