Things you did wrong in the marriage? Why does that matter?

You are going to be the best husband you can be going forward. You are not looking to get graded here on past results. And nothing you could have done made her have an affair.

Don't be judging yourself. Do the best job you can today and each day going forward. And yes you are still allowed to screw up once in a while.

Stretch, just a little life lesson for you. I exposed to OMs GF two months ago. Broke the back of the affair instantly.

GF and OM just got engaged. Is that nuts or what? Anyway i don't have a thread but thought you would want to know - whatever you see in your situ, you go ahead and try to top that:)

Stretch - looks like you're doing good, all things considered. My situation is that she's still humiliated by me exposing to her family - and that's fueling her anger. Since she's shown no sign of recovery, I feel like I'm stuck. I can't make the 'us vs. the world' play right now. It doesn't feel right either.

Reynolds - WoW! Just like I said in my thread. That's strange, he must be a smooth talker.

Gentleman, let me just say that while we wish for the OM to die of gonorrhea and rot in hell for what they have done to our lives, it likely isn't going to happen.

However, what will happen when we expose, is the quality of the character of the OM will be exposed to our WW's.

I myself did not expose to OMGF until 2 months after I had the full truth, which was 6-8 months since I knew that something had been going on.

OM scrambled, lied, whined, and cried; and it all made it back to WW, even though he was in another state.

It showed WW exactly what a slimeball she had nearly destroyed her family for, and just what kind of slime he arose from (FWW works w/ OM's sister).

Never regret exposure; evil will always die in the light.

HHH - thanks for the post. I exposed within 5-6 weeks of D-day. That wasn't quick enough for the vets, but it was the fastest I could move. I'm not regretting exposure, but I have wondered once or twice whether I pulled the trigger too quickly on it. OM has cut off all contact, but the bigger fallout has been on her side of the street. She says that it doesn't bother her personally, but that her family is being put in the middle, etc. That bothers her. I attempted to use real logic (I know, I know) - why was exposure necessary? Because YOU were having an affair. If there's no affair, there's no exposure. If you decide to bail on DS and me now, your family will always have that nagging little question in the back of their mind about the amount of effort YOU put into saving the marriage. So, from that perspective, exposure has certainly put heat on her on several levels.

Exposure is also good for your own mental health.

Wanna know how many people who actually matter I exposed to?

1.

Not exposing, and not exposing immediately is an error. In terms of breaking the A, I was fortunate that OM was slated to leave the state any way... but that really doesn't make it better.

I understand the husbandly reasons to not do so; you don't want to embarrass your W, you don't want to embarrass yourself. However, it also gives you the opportunity to excise relationships which are not supportive of your marriage, thereby strengthening your foundations.

NEVER. REGRET. EXPOSURE.

Regret not exposing... I do.

Exposure really makes them stop and think. In my case, the fact that four of her closest (best friends + siblings) were in on it the whole time made her comfortable living parallel lives. But she had to carry on as one person with me in our relationship and another person around everyone else. That was exhausting on her. Exposure had to include other people that mattered. Like mom (who also knew) but importantly Dad. And some of her new friends, and the BH family (mine). I believe its the only way. I am only a two week vet now, but I see the wisdom completely from this side.

Over on their side, they all do not understand exposure. But Harley's plan has a pro-marriage track record of success. Sorry to point that out. And I know they are in that fog of denial/justification/guilt/defensiveness. If lying to your spouse and lying to yourself and lying to God don't bother someone.... maybe lying to Mom and Dad or the neighbor or the in-laws or some other friends does. Someone, somewhere has got to be able to please, please help your sweetheart come to her senses.

All that being said.... now that exposure is over, the only thing that matters is between us. What do we do from here.

Right now, even with exposure, I am still fighting for this marriage and she is just hanging back. She wanted to divorce me... she wanted to walk away... she chose an affair instead... now she is waiting to witness my changes.

That being said, in my sitch I can also honestly say that she is finally examining her role and her self and not just blaming hubby with revisionist marriage history. She is looking at her own depression and what causes it other than always the hubby. Only in tiny ways right now, but fog is lifting. I guess it helps a whole lot that her husband is a whole lot better man to her now than before the affair. Before, she did not have the space and comfort to try and be herself/ figure herself out. I was in on top of her with pronouncements and lectures and problem solving and criticisms before she even had a chance to talk out loud and share what was eating at her. So she shut me out. I am a better witness now. I don't jump in and take over the dialogue. I listen. I genuinely am intrigued. I want to hear her think out loud and process without offering my judgement and problem solving. Its just fascinating to watch her ideas at work and develop. This is helping with the depression now.

Now, this is what I meant by excising relationships; these were people who enabled the affair, enabled cake-eating, enabled IB.

If you are to view adultery as in-line with addictive behavior, then the logical step is that these people must be removed.

"Wet faces, wet places."


And, Dr. Harley was correct in his observation of the similarities in behavior with adultery and addiction - though it fits for relationships in general and addiction, and it is at the physiological level, which means it is more or less universally applicable.

I'll link the article some time when I don't feel lazy.

while we wish for the OM to die.....and rot in hell for what they have done to our lives, it likely isn't going to happen.

But when it does, gentlemen, let me assure you that it is every bit as sweet as you dream it can be!

So let's raise our glasses:

HERE'S TO A LONG LIFE TO OUR RENEWED MARRIAGES.......
AND AN EARLY DEATH TO THE OM!!!

Thank you for that!

I had to chime in with this as well--exposure can serve many purposes, and this is one. I showed WW some of the text messages I got from OM after exposing to his GF and mother then confronting him. They said things like "look bro I don't want your wife, YOU do" and "I am sooooo not in your life and don't want to be, I am a non factor you don't have to worry about me" and "I really don't want to be with your wife ok?" She about barfed, since this was so opposite the things he had been telling her. Either he lied to her, or lied to me, but either way was a slimeball.

Exposure is effective for many reasons. Just because it didn't achieve goal X in a certain amount of time, doesn't mean it wasn't effective.

All - thanks for the comments. Stretch - you're further along than me. I'm still getting the revisiionist history, the divorce is inevitable speech every night, and a host of other tantrums and jabs. I know it's fogbabble and I try to let it roll off, but it's grading on me.

The exposure worked to kill the A - I'm sure of that. However, it's the events after that, that are so divergent here (and undertandably so!). Some WS return back, seeing the light immediately. Some WS move out immmediately and some are in between. In my case, I think my WW personality and pride will ultimately lead her to leave the house; ironically, it's our DS that might lead her back here. That remains to be seen. She was just so out of it last night after talking to her sister - I don't know what to expect day to day. She doesn't know what she wants, she can't have DS and live the party life. She'd have to be responsible. She can't be responsible, if she wants the party life. She's started a new job = more responsibility. She does't want to be married to me = less responsiblity. She's just so deep in the fog, its f'in hard to see the ground or the sky. /end of rant

Andy, my psychology training begins and ends with one Graduate-level course in Adolescent Development, so I cannot cite references in support of my proposal here, but has WW ever been screened for BiPolar Disorder, or (more likely) Narcissistic Personality Disorder? (I wouldn't even begin to imagine the possibilities of BOTH of these neuropathies being present?)

Just something to consider......

NG - thanks - she's some of the all or nothing mentality to her. In other words it's all or nothing in some things. I don't think she's bi-polar. For example, she'll love a food or beverage or several days/weeks in a row and then quit cold turkey - saying 'I'm over it.' My job has taught me the benefits and possibilities of gray, that lies between the two extremes.

An early, painful and humiliating one. And I hope we all get to watch (from a distance)

My sitch is kinda different. The OM basically broke contact with WW when he learned she was M. Okay, he wasn't totally honorable. He kissed her and almost gave into her clingy, needy desperate pleas. My wife's single days MO was pretty simple. See what you want and latch on! Never let him up for air until you get what you want. During her midlife crisis she acted just like she did when she was 21. Clingy and needy.

So the OM kept on blowing her off. Letting her down gently. Not pursuing her. Probably she scared the crap out of him. Married woman groupie stalker.

Okay, okay. That's rather mean and cruel. But her behavior was mean and cruel dammit. And out of control. Almost acting like a possesed stranger.

Under Plan A I cannot be this angry and confrontational to her. But the disappointment in the behavior is very real. It was disgusting. Sorry. It was.

Sorry for what? It is disgusting.

Adultery is never attractive; it's sneaky and disgusting, and has to be to even exist.

Andy, the benefits and possibilities of gray only exist for those of us who acknowledge it's existence - gray only serves to confuse and anger the "black-and-white" crowd. They don't get it, they never will.

AND THAT'S OK.

Black and white keeps those of us in the gray in line, and we save the a$$es of the black-and-white when things go south.

It's a simple complimentary system. There are those that plan for everything, and those who simply adapt - in the day-to-day the planners are the best people to rely on, but when a disaster which doesn't fit the plans arises, it's the seat-of-the-pants types who rise to the occasion.


It works the same in marriage, and what has to be acknowledged is that it isn't how we get to our goal, it's that we GET TO OUR GOAL.

Oh, by the way, Stretch; your WW sounds like my MIL.

You guys have been so right about the emotional roller coaster.

I stopped crying non stop last Thursday. Been weepy here and there, but not 24/7 gut wrenching pain.

Feelings of paranoia. ('What hasn't she told me.' 'What is she saying to me that's a total lie' 'Why does she say the opposite to her family and friends?')

Feelings of "I just don't care... not worth it." Yuck. Our therapist says, "We need you to learn to be the best man you can be, so no matter how this thing tunrs out... you will be fine." As much as I hate that, I also caught myself playing with the emotion of resignation. I mean, if she cannot come around and be remorseful. If she cannot commit to the marriage and wear a ring again. (She says, "I can not make a promise right now.") How long do I wait? When do I say, "Fine. Let's quit. Move out please. Leave me and the kids and go move on and enjoy your fantasies." ??

Then, I go back to... "No Stretch, you are just reacting to the rolercoaster. Its only been two weeks. We've really only honestly been working on this for two weeks." Remember the prize. I still really love her. I want to enjoy grandkids together. She makes me happy.

Stretch - completely know what you're talking about. The coaster sucks for me today. You're in therapy and she's there with you, that's a positive thing. Try to use the positive aspects of what you're doing to help see you through. I waffle between resignation (I'll shock her one last time by filing) and oh God, I'd better plan for another 12-18 months of this stuff, because I love her and my DS so much.