I have not confronted her directly about an A. She has brought up the OM and wanted advice on how to help him when he can�t find a job. I act like there is nothing unusual so we talk a bit about him. I did ask if they dated and she said no. The chats confirm they didn�t but wish they had. I have not told her that I want her to stop talking to him or anything like that. I act like nothing is wrong.

I am not seeing a therapist now. I am getting more out of reading MB then I did from any sessions. Our marriage is good compared to 2 years ago. We go on family walks. . We go to the kids� school activities together. We express our love for each other and are sexually active. There is an air of secrecy about us as we can�t seem to talk about deep issues. WW tears up and says that she would rather not talk right now when I ask anything more than �How was your day?�

I agree with you all that there needs to be exposure. I agree that if this continues the marage will die. Right now I am stuck on how. OM does not work. WW does not work. OM is separated. Does it matter to exposure plan when WW is trying to work an end to OM? I am concerned about ordering the books as she gets the mail. Maybe I will get them delivered to my work.
Thank again for listening.

itburns, tell us about OM. Is he married?

It really doesn't matter how far away he lives. We've had waywards carrying on affairs in different countries, 1000s of miles away from each other.

A keylogger is your best bet for snooping since they're so far apart. Have you been keeping track of those texts? Can you access your cell phone records online? Make copies of those records.

I think your next move is to get some intel on OM. If you've got the keylogger on you should get that info quickly. While you're getting this, Plan A your WW as much as you can.

Let us know what OM's story is when you get it. We'll go from there.

MB:

Check out the NG-BH-SK posted on 03-03-11, and the refinement earlier today
IB is already working on the necessities.

How do you know this? I'm not sure what you mean. How is she 'trying' to end this with OM?

Forgive me, IB, if you've already answered this: When you first realized that you weren't comfortable with her chatting with OM, did you ask her to stop?

Morning everyone, I have a short day at work so will only have this reply till Mon.

I have copied several chats between WW and OM. In these they talk about how OM is separated and OMs wife had filed for D. My WW tells him that her and OM will not work in a relationship now that WW knows him better. They had not talked for 10y+ before 2009. WW mentioned something about how she could not trust him now that she knows he cheated on his wife twice. (would it be appropriate for me to quote the chats in full on MB?) OM still insisted he has loved her from long ago and wants her now. (gag!) This has been the theme on the last two chats.

I can get most of the OM info from his FB site. Then there is what WW has shared with me in conversation about OM. What info about OM would you like to know? I haven't told WW that I do not like her talking to him. I though that the info she shared may help in my Plan A.

I have not been able to get the txts, only the cell bill copies showing the txt entry. There have been 3 voice calls on the cell bill when WW was at our house. I don�t have these recorded. I have copied a dozen chats with a logger. The logger captured the www page and the text typed, so I have most of the two way communication.

I like this quote from someone here(?) 'What would you do if you were not afraid?" I am afraid of what the kids will go through if this fails. I am afraid of loosing my cool. I am afraid I will be the second choice. I think to myself "Is there any adjustments to the exposure plan I should make?" out of fear that I will stomp on what we have. Then I read what Dr. Harley and others here have written and come to the realization 'I don't really have much to be stomped out.'

Hello all, I am done. I am ready to work on my exposure. I want to do this now. I can't take the hurt any longer something has to change. Can anyone point to a post with an exposure speech typed out. Cuz if I do not have it practiced like you told me it will not go good.
By looking at usage of cell I found that WW and OM texted 40+ times today. I am sooo mad I am shaking. Once again, I find WW told me that she was napping, but clearly she was up texting. I want to know what is being said soo bad. How do I ask her to let me see the phone so I can read these txts and see what they are saying. I hope I can focus enough to be kind and supportive. I want this to move to plan A sooo bad. Well, thanks for listening, it sure helps.

At this point, I think she may deny any "Affair". From everything you wrote, it sounds like she has the opportunity to tell you, "I never did enything."

I believe, and MB believes, and Dr Harley believes that 40 texts in one afternoon with a person of the opposite sex (not your spouse) almost never leads to any good.

I believe you mentioned that OM is certainly pursuing your wife? I would expect your wife to end contact with another man that's pursuing her.

But, all that being said, you have no idea where her head/heart is at. She could simply lie to you. And make you feel like a jerk for making a big deal out of what she will call "nothing". And she will be mad for exposing this "nothing" to a lot of other people. So, I am afraid that you need more information.

Browse through her phone. If she leaves it lying around. Take a glance. Best that can happen is all your fears are removed. But I doubt that. 40 texts to another man are improper, especially a man that stated he wants her.

TY Stretch, your reply makes a lot of sense. Do you think info from 2010 is too old to be of value to expose? I sure wish I had found MB sooner. From chats last week, the OM sais he does not want to stop perusing the relationship possibilities he knows she wants. And WW is telling OM that she doesn't want a relationship and that they can only be friends.

On my way home I bought a dozen roses. I figured that if things went south when I did bring up the txts that the flowers would help show I do care for her. I usually leave the flowers in the car to see what the mood in the house is, then bring them in later. When I walked in the door I was greeted by hugs and kisses from WW. That added tons of ? to the confusion factor of what I should do. I gave her the flowers later that night. I did not bring up the txts. I did not get a look at WW's phone.

I will continue Plan A'ing my WW.

Maybe there is nothing there. But even if not, she is standing in a very dangerous spot. She needs an accountability partner. It might have to be you if she doesn't have quality girfriends and family to stop her.

She is demonstrating bad boundaries for sure. This "friend" is up to no good. She shouldn't want him as a "friend" any more. He is damaging her, abusing her, being so dis-respectful of her. He is treating her husband and her children terribly. What a jerk. Just count up the LB's he is demonstrating.

I hope she is just confused and this hasn't gone anywhere yet. But I don't think you will get anywhere with confrontation except her ability to deny and evade.

You should get more advice from the vets on this forum.

It's fogbabble. She's addicted to the needs that he meets, and her "just friends" idea is wrong for several reasons;

He doesn't want to be "just friends."

The relationship is inappropriate, but she is unwilling to give it up because she is unwilling give up him meeting whatever needs he is fulfilling.

It is INSULTING to her husband.

If at any point, he pushes the line, she will likely give because she won't risk losing this source of EN fulfillment.

She probably isn't "in love" with the guy, but there is a definite infatuation, and that is enough. It was enough to nearly destroy my marriage, and for FWW to give in to pressure for sex.

Don't stand for it.

I will continue Plan A'ing my WW.

Plan A - yes, but dose it with a bit of Plan Q(uestions), discretely and carefully.

You have an opportunity to end this sitaution without a lot of drama, by discovering which of her EN's your WW was trying to satisfy with her. You admit to failing to provide her with "support" but in terms of.........

I get the feeling (from WAAAY out here) that your WW might have elements of the so-called "Wendy" (from Peter Pan) complex, in which she gets warm fuzzies from saving "lost boys". Add this impulse to the fact that she is otherwise unemployed ("idle hands....") and you have a petri-dish prepared for her to grow her infection of affection for this OM.

The fix?

1 - Let her help you. How? You tell us. Start a small sideline business, let her manage it, keep the books, etc.
2 - If her working full time is not possible, encourage her to find a volunteer gig heavy with empathy-for-others-in-trouble elements. Red Cross? Church Outreach?

Anyway, just some things to consider.

Hello all, thank you Stretch, HHH, and NG for the great comments. I have been Plan A'ing and Plan Q'ing my WW since my last logon. What I see is this... WW has not proclaimed her desire openly on chats to OM. But OM has said things like " Thats why I love you!" and OM adresses WW 'Hello Hon'. I have seen 4 times when they have txted but WW is deleting the txts so I don't see them. I want WW to stop all comunication with OM!

As a family we are watching movies and going to the park and such. When the kids were at their fathers over spring break, WW and I did activities together. Did you know it's only $3 bucks to hit 25 balls at the batting cage. That was fun for both of us.

What I am asking myself, and you all, is if the posibility of causing a lot of drama over nothing is worth me getting OM out of our lives. I feel pain everytime I see that they have talked. Why would I wreck a good thing trying to be selfish and make it a great thing?! Would I feel better after all is said and done if WW did not see it my way? Which is very posible as she is very subborn when she feels controlled. I really don't think i am willing to bow down to alowing WW a 'friend' that is that way. Even if she sais they are just between us and don't mean anything. If WW feels that her wild side needs his attention and not mine that is a problem to me.

Strech I read your early posts and truely see myself over the last 8 years, or more . Now I try to talk and listen.

NeverGuessed you are right on with your ideas and feelings. WW lives to rescue animals. She is a very-very devoted mother. 'Doing' for others even while she neglects her own responsibilities. I wish she would get out or get a job. She says "If I get a job then who would take care of the kids?" We butt heads on the value of her job over the kids being on their own at home.
Sad thing is that pre EA/PA WW was very jealous of any woman I talked to. Now she even encourages me to contact my old school mates. The difference is that I will not contact anyone I was romantic with. WW thinks it's ok to do that. Interesting how the world looks different when the color of the lens changes. I am rambling now. It feels good to get this out as I have no one else to vent to. Thanks again to everyone for your time.

itburns_so, am I reading this right? Are you considering allowing your WW to have this boyfriend on the side?

She is encouraging you to pursue friendships with other women so you'll get your nose out of her affair. You know that, right?

IBS, that is plan Doormat, not Plan A.


Allowing your WW to continue adulterous interaction is not only dangerous, it is WEAK on your part.

Why, for the love of jumping Jehoshaphat, would you settle for 50% of your WW?

Nut up, man. That's crap.

Well, how about that. TY maritalbliss. No wonder I feel like I am dirt. I am betraying myself and my marrage for letting this continue.

Yes, I am trying to justify letting this happen. I should say I 'was' justifing it. Didn't see it quite that plain before now.

Why would I wreck a good thing trying to be selfish and make it a great thing?

You are, like many newly arrived BS's here, still somewhat in denial-land. This comes about when the brain decides that what is happening is so horrific that it cannot be true. It therefore creates elements to support the more acceptable "reality" it requires.

Dude, here it comes: YOU DO NOT HAVE A GOOD THING. Your wife is new-partner shopping, and like when most women shop, they like to spend a lot of time trying things on. I don't know if I give her credit, or more intense blame, in her actions to have you start "shopping" as well. While it's nice she worries about you being left behind, it's kinda....cold-hearted....that she can easily see, (and tacitly encourage? ) you with someone else.

Act. Please.

It is SERIOUS head-out-of-derriere time, my friend. It doesn't seem like she's made up her mind yet, but it's disturbing that you want to give her that time, opportunity, and freedom, while debating collateral discomfort to be caused by your taking action. Think "infection"; think "operation" vs "putrefaction and death".

Saddle up and get your wife back, itburns. Enough of this panty-waist business. My goodness, you had me stunned for a minute!

Ouch! I have always liked your way with words HHH. I am glad you all agree with my subconscious, I was getting tired of trying to beat it into submission.
I am going to have to step way back now and look at my actions and reevaluate.

You are all right. I don't have a good thing now. I don't want things to stay this way. I know what needs to be done. I know how to do it.

I tell my kids 'What doesn't kill us makes us stronger.'. I see It's time for me to swallow my own medicine.

itburns: I understand firsthand where you are. When I exposed without proof a physical affair I learned a few things: 1. It didn't matter that I was once a young tough Marine - the anger I received at exposure time exceeded all my expectations. And I had no support system to go to. Make certain you take care of yourself and have a support system in place. I all but offed myself in fear and frustration when I got the "well now divorce is certain" speech and the other incredible anger I received. 2. No married spouse should listen for one second to a man hitting on them. That is not a friend. A friend supports not subverts the marriage. 3. Most people that gt caught up in the "just friends" cannot invite the friend to dinner nor can they talk in front of the spouse. Fail either of those two tests and it is not just friends... 4. Exposure of the emotional affair (secretive and behind your back) has about an 80% chance of killing the "fun" of the affair. 5. Do not expose in an angry tirade. (I did and I regret it and lost the advantage because of it) 6. Strange people become affair partners - 7. You have a right to discuss and set boundaries that you are comfortable with in the marriage. If there is a difference of opinion do not get threatening. Just agree to both research the subject. If its a deal breaker for you after you talk about it with research... then you must calmly say so.
8. Take a hard look at yourself. I found out I was guilty of loud angry outbursts. I did not swear, I did not hit. But by goodness could I pour on the volume. Wow could I lecture by the hour. Wow could I threaten to cancel vacations, file for divorce. I was verbally abusive and controlling and it took the hard looking at myself to realize that. So I set out to fix it.
Fix whatever you can that you can identify as an emotional need of your wife that you have not been able to meet. Just don't sell out on transparency, and fidelity ("forsaking all others" is the usual phrase...
And please know you will survive and that your marriage can get better.
Prayers for you and your wife and children.

Hurting Turkey
ME: BH age 56 Recovering Verbal Abuser
SHE:WW age 49
Married 13 years
Hers: 22 and 18 years
Mine: 30, 28 and 22 years
Ours: 11 years
She still won't admit A # 2 despite overwhelming evidence
Considered Plan B but was told not to by Steve H. since A is over
to hang on to Plan A. Grateful for the people on this board (even though they tire of telling me what I don't want to hear!)