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Can you fall back in love with your BH?

I see posts from WW�s new to this board quite frequently asking this question. Still in the fog from their A, they can�t imagine loving the man they spoke their vows to again.

Yes, you can fall back in love with your BH. You can fall HARD. The reasons you married him are still there, though you�ve chosen to forget them. The memories of years you spent together are still there, though you�ve chosen to rewrite them.

If you are fortunate, he will fight. He will meet your needs like a champ. And you�ll realize the OM was nothing compared to your BH. You�ll feel a rush every time your BH sends you an email, or a text, to let you know he loves you.

But the more important question here is not, �Can I fall back in love with my BH?� The question you should be asking yourself is, �Can my BH fall back in love with ME?�

Because sometimes, the damage you have done is simply too great to overcome. And when your LB$ is filled and his is completely drained, when you go to sleep each night in an empty bed, all you have to keep you company is your regrets and your pain (which isn�t even close to what you inflicted on him).

Yes, there may have been underlying problems and issues in your M, before the A. And yes, those will have to be addressed so that your M post-A is better than anything you've ever had. But you have to fix the immediate damage first - and that is NOT to you, it is to your BH.

So focus on the really important question.


FWW

"Snow and adolescence are the only problems that disappear if you ignore them long enough." ~ Earl Wilson
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wulffpackgirl...wow.

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Well said


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that should be required reading for all WS's


Me -BS 40
Him - FWH 34 (dtl)
3 D-Days from 12/25/10 to 01/06/11
NC - 01/09/11
02/20/12 done beating my head on that wall.
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Thank you for writing this.
Hurting Turkey
ME: BH age 56 Recovering Verbal Abuser
SHE:WW age 49
Married 13 years
Hers: 22 and 18 years
Mine: 30, 28 and 22 years
Ours: 11 years
She still won't admit A # 2 despite overwhelming evidence
Considered Plan B but was told not to by Steve H. since A is over
to hang on to Plan A. Grateful for the people on this board (even though they tire of telling me what I don't want to hear!)

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WPG, thank you.

Hope things are going as well as they can, and don't crumble that biscuit!


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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HHH, at this point I don't have a biscuit to crumble anymore.

It's just...well, falling back in love with my H was never an issue for me. I wanted to love him, and I wanted him to love me, so when he met my needs falling head over heels for him again was easy. The A ended immediately when H confronted me that Sunday in August. I never pined away for the OM after that - I didn't miss OM. I saw my world crashing around me that day and I didn't want to lose my H, I knew it was him that I still loved and I knew that OM wasn't worth it...unfortunately I tried to lie to "keep" my H.

Why didn't I realize all these things before the A started? Stupidity. Naievety. Poor boundaries. I allowed my EN's to be met by another man, one who was from my past. It was a slippery slope that I put myself on and I was too stupid to stop it. So I made one poor choice after another until I was in the fog of the A. I did all the things Pepper talked about in her "typical WW thread" - I drank to excess, I cut myself off from family and friends because I knew what I was doing was wrong and knew what they would say. I was depressed. Suicidal. Yet I still didn't stop what I was doing.

No matter what I did post-A to try and meet my H's needs, I could never do enough to fill his LB$ after all the lies on top of lies. I don't think I ever helped to create those "in love" feelings for me in him as we struggled through trying to recover. Could I have done more? Maybe. Probably. Definitely. Like you said, I kept right on smashing that biscuit into smithereens. I was selfish and impatient, and sabotaged our recovery because of it.

Would MB have helped R if I/we had found it earlier? Honestly, I don't know. I think my H is one who cannot get past the A. And that's because of the man he is - the things he values and believes in. If we had found MB years ago, then yes, I believe it would have helped us to build a wonderful M. We won't get the chance to try now.

So, saving my own M is most likely impossible. At the very least, it is out of my hands. But maybe I can do something to help someone else.



FWW

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WPG,

I wonder if talking to my wife would help. She was the WS and her experience is very very similar to yours. I was wondering if she was the only one feeling that way after exposure. If you are willing, she is on the site. I can send the moderator a letter and ask her to connect you two. Whatever she did with me is working. I know I don't fit the usual guy model. I wanted to be chased... hunted down even... I wouldn't see your marriage as over necessarily. Stalled yes. not over.
Hang in there, I'm praying for ya!

CV


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WPG,

I feel like I'm reading my own story when I read yours. What you did, how you felt...thanks for posting. My BH says that so much of what I did doesn't make sense, especially when I talk about how I felt inside and still continued the A. It helps to see that I'm not alone.

I have had to work really hard to win my WH back. There have been many days and even weeks when he seemed completely uninterested in making our M work but I just keep on pursuing him relentlessly. Believe it or not it's working!


Thanks again for sharing. You have encouraged me.


Me...saved by grace
Him...wonderful husband
Us...3 years in to our new life and better every day!
and we have 3 great kids (20,19,17)

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Thanks, CV...I'd be glad to talk to your W, but to be quite honest I don't think there is anything else I can do. I just updated my own massive novel - errr, thread - on the Recovery board last night.

I know I made a lot of mistakes in our R, the first was the trickle truth that I put H through. And even after we found MB, there were definitely times that I screwed up. I waffled between being a doormat or being "Tommy Boy" (HHH's description!). I struggled with being O&H w/H during R - and no, I don't mean about the A, I mean about the day-to-day...how I was feeling, what I was thinking...because I sucked a lot of it up and walked on eggshells around H. I played the martyr more often than not, which is wrong, wrong, wrong...a renter's mindset...but part of me felt like I owed H for him staying with me after what I did, and I kept my mouth shut when his IB hurt me.

I tried everything from grand gestures to love notes to little gifts, to show AF and AD. I tried to do more around the house in the way of DS. I never turned him down for SF and was willing to try new things that he wanted to do. It was hard to do RC and meet UA time b/c while in withdrawal, he simply didn't want to spend time with me. C was never one of his top needs, it was mine, but again, in withdrawal he didn't like talking to me.

When he left, I tried chasing him...or what I thought was chasing him...I sent him cards, letters, gifts. I don't know...maybe he saw those things as either me doing them out of guilt or me trying to guilt him into coming home.

Now I'm still physically attracted to him, I still love him, but the "in love" feelings are dying. I know that's kind of a consequence of attempting an extended Plan A without having my EN's met in return, with a Plan B (to protect my LB$) being unadvisable in my sitch. I know, of course, that should he decide he wants to stay married to me that he can then make deposits in my LB$ and bring it back to the romantic love threshold...but that's his choice. To be fair, he is meeting some of my needs but not my top three.

I didn't intend to start another thread about my sitch smile but I just felt like I kept reading WW threads where over and over they were convinced they could not fall back in love with their H's...that the OM was so wonderful at meeting their needs puke when in reality, the OM played them like a fiddle - just like the POSOM did to me...used them to get a piece of azz on the side. That's all. Like you said, CV, on another thread, if the OM had really loved the WW, he would have stayed out of the WW's M.

THAT is the point to drive home to all the new and lurking WW's...well, for WH's as well, really...and maybe even the potential WS's who have stumbled on this board before it is too late. And if I can reach even one WS, then maybe in that way I can help them to help their BS to heal.


FWW

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Welcome to MB, BG - I've been reading your posts! It is eye opening when you realize that A's aren't unique or special, and that anyone can have an A if the right circumstances are present. I'm so glad you are having positive results with your H! Stick around and learn all you can - there are some very wise folks on these boards.


FWW

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I'm sorry that I can't recall all the details of your situation, WPG.

After exposure, how long do you feel you were in withdrawal, the fog lifting, from the OM/A?

Thanks.

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HFD, the fog I was in after exposure was a self-protective one. I lied to my H thinking two things: 1.) I was keeping myself out of trouble and 2.) protecting my H from further hurt. Any fog I had over OM - and oh boy had I been fogged during the A - was gone in the light of H finding out I had been unfaithful. H thinks I lied to protect the OM, but I lied to protect myself from further fallout.

When I sent OM an email on exposure day saying to leave me alone, I meant it. I removed my FB account the same day (or thought I did - turns out I'd only "deactivated" it, it takes what amounts to an act of Congress to remove yourself from FB, but that's done now). There were 2 breaches of NC. One, OM called me at work right after I'd admitted the PA. He left me a crazy-sounding message on my VM and I stupidly called him back. He wanted me to ask my H to "leave him alone." I remember being so angry when I talked to him, and thinking what a whiner and a wuss OM was. I told him I'd told H the truth and asked him to just admit it to H and be done w/it. I wished him a "nice life" and that was that. But I came home and lied about the contact to H, again, trying to protect myself. The 2nd breach occurred a few months later, when OM sent out a mass email to all addresses in his address book, which included my H (I'd already blocked his email). When I found out I went ballistic. I created a new email for the sole purpose of sending him an ugly "cease and desist" message in which I threatened to tell his W if he so much as breathed in our direction again. My dad even called the OM after this one and told him to f-off. Now, be mindful this was all before I found MB, so I was not following MB guidelines here. If I was, I would have not called OM back and immediately told H about the VM, and would not have sent the email. Essentially in that email I made a pact with him, threatening exposure like I did. I didn't see it like that at the time, I thought I was making myself clear I wanted nothing to do w/him.

We didn't know what MB was then, but essentially H threw himself into a stellar Plan A. I fell crazy in love with him again. It was like we couldn't get enough of each other...I guess now in hindsight it was just me that couldn't get enough of him.

My fog was that I couldn't stop lying, and I subjected my H to trickle-truth for four months. Four months. When he realized what I'd done, how I'd looked him in the eyes and lied, how I'd sworn on our daughters' lives (God I still make myself sick even now) that I was telling the truth...well, I think even though he stayed for the next year, I think it was over for him on that day.


FWW

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Thank you for that reflection.

I continue to monitor for a breach of NC...haven't found one. My W is working the MB principles with me, but she has her own LBs to conquer.
I still get that paranoia feeling some moments of some days...like I know the A is dead, but contact may still occur, but we're now only out about 6-7 weeks from exposure. She is still depressed, sad...but getting better, I think, so, sometimes I'm not sure if withdrawal has 'ended' and if ALL of the fog has dissapated or not...

I appreciate your posts, truly.

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Well, I'm rooting for you and your W, HFD!

You definitely should continue to monitor. We don't have an expectation to privacy in M, and if she has nothing to hide, she won't care about the monitoring. The first time I felt/got angry after H left in Jan., I changed my passwords to everything. I refused to access email from the computer at home. I thought, he's gone, he has no right to spy on me anymore. After a day or two, I changed everything back. I realized that it didn't matter if he monitored me b/c I had nothing to hide, not anymore. Even now, if he requested work passwords, I'd give them to him.

And, I think not all depression that a recovering WW feels necessarily stems from withdrawal from OM. Certainly w/drawal is a likely cause, but there could be lots of other reasons resulting from the fallout of an A, especially as more time passes. I kept finding myself depressed during the last year as well as now, and it has nothing to do w/missing OM. I was diagnosed with major depression in January (duh!) and it has everything to do with how I am responsible for the breakup of our M. Yes, both of us contributed equally to the state of our M, but I am the one who dropped the A-bomb. And THAT is what ultimately destroyed us.


FWW

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Was there a timeframe you felt you were in withdrawal from the OM/ the A? Weeks, months until it was out of your system, feeling that the fog was gone??

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I think that b/c my H almost immediately threw himself into overdrive meeting my ENs, I didn't have much, if any, withdrawal. As soon as he started meeting my needs, BAM he was making deposits into my LB$. I didn't have a void created by the loss of the OM. H was, in fact, much more adept at meeting my needs than the OM, AND H could meet all ten of them - OM could not. I very quickly reached the romantic love threshold w/H. I know that sounds very atypical for a WW who has fallen out of love w/her H and believes she is "in lurrrve" with her A partner.

I think, though, that I really didn't think badly of OM until that January phone call. It wasn't that I pined for him, it was more like I didn't see him for what he truly was - which was (and maybe still is - I never did get any kind of response from his W) a serial cheater. My H was dogged in finding out as much about OM as he could, and the things H told me, plus me looking back at some of the things OM said to me, confirmed that in my mind. My opinion of OM certainly doesn't make me any less culpable - it's not like I'm some fair flower who was victimized, I made decisions that I alone am responsible for.

And OM certainly didn't try to pursue me. H asked me once if I was disappointed, if I wanted OM to pursue me, which I didn't want at all, I wanted H to pursue me...but the simple fact that OM DIDN'T pursue me kind of reinforced the fact that he didn't have romantic feelings for me - he just wanted to get in my pants.

So I'm probably not a good gauge of how long withdrawal from the OM could last. Some other FWW's on here could have very different experiences w/withdrawal than me, though.


FWW

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WPG,

I read your other thread. I guess it's why I replied to you here. He still stops by, kind of a part time H, right? I wonder if he's willing to talk to you. Coffee drinkers, right? Food implies intimacy with people. Can you sit him down over a cup-o-joe and just ask him what you can do to win him back? Maybe I am being overly optimistic, or you've done it a million times, but hey, at this point, one more won't hurt, right? I'm no pro, but I know the story of the woman and the wicked judge... She badgered him so much that he relented and gave in to her. Persistence won the day

Cv



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WPG,

If you'd still like to talk to my wife, let Justus know, she has her email and would be willing to talk.

CV


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Written by my FWW in response to GO's thread here;

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2501052&page=1

Quote
1/10/11

The other day I read someone's forum describing his feelings the day his affair came to light and thought I would describe mine.

First off, I'm going to start a few months before. My husband found out that something was going on, and of course I was too scared to tell him the truth, so I just told him we kissed and denied everything else. i knew I got caught, so I wanted to "fix" it myself. I thought i could just "forget" what happened to save myself more than anything, but moreso out of fear of hurting my husband.

On March 13th, the OM left. I was very sad only because now I knew I had to deal with what I did. I didn't want to delete him completely out of my life because then I had to admit that I did something so horrible and didn't know how to deal with it.

A few days later I was at work and got a very long text from my husband saying how disrespectful I was, and that I either had to delete him, or he was leaving that day. I chose to delete him (from FB). The moment I did that I felt so much relief - like the hold he had on me was gone. I felt free again.

At this time, my husband still didn't know the whole truth, and that was eating me from the inside. I started having nightmares - horrible ones - that I told him and he left me. I would wake up constantly reaching for him to make sure he was still there.

For the next few months, my husband would ask if anything else had happened - I would always tell him no and say "I thought we were doing good!" As my heart fell into my stomach and thinking "Oh, God... he knows!" I was constantly stressed and withdrawn. The thought of him finding out terrfied me so bad that I started having irritation around my girly parts. I thought "Oh, God. Did I bring home an STD?" I got checked out, and it was all due to stress.

One day, in the middle of July... maybe the end, I can't really remember... I had a really bad night. Lots of nightmares, I went through all the ways I could tell him, and all the ways he could leave me.

I woke up that monring knowing exactly what I had to do. I had to tell him. The night before he texted me asking what I wanted from him. I said; just you. His response to the same question was a lot longer, but the part that stuck out the most was that he wanted all of me, not just a part of me. I think that his answer kind of woke me up from my fog. I knew that I wasn't giving him my all on working on my marriage, because I was holding a very dark secret, and if I didn't be honest with him then, we would never survive.

So, that morning I knew what I had to do - no matter what happened he deserved to know the truth. i had to work that day - definitely the hardest day ever! i was like a robot; knew what needed to get done, did it, but I was not there. The weight of what I was going to do was so heavy - I knew with all my heart that it was going to be my last day of my life with my husband. He texted me through the day like he always did, but I didn't respond. I was dying inside and knew I couldn't put on a happy voice to try to hide it. His "I love you" texts killed me, and I cryed my whole lunch break because I didn't think I deserved his love - I was about to destroy him.

He came and picked me up. I hugged him, but would not look at him - I couldn't. The car ride home felt like hours instead of minutes. When he tried to get me to talk, I said I was tired. When we got home I told him "we need to talk" - those were the death words, he knew something bad was going to happen. I was shaking from the inside - dizzy, scared, panicking. I asked him to promise not to leave me. He did, and to find out that was a relief to him, he thought I was going to leave!

This part is kind of a blur - I know I had a hard time saying the words, but I ended up telling him everything. When it started, how many times... everything.

He hugged me and told me everything was going to be OK because the truth was out. I just told him the worst thing a wife could ever tell her husband and he's comforting me!

It felt weird - wrong in a way - like I totally did not deserve or expect it! It was way different then what went through my mind! I cryed, and BOY did I cry! It was the first time I had cried in months. Since this all started, I closed myself off completely - even from myself. I would NOT allow myself to feel emotion - because, when I did, guilt and shame would come out and all I wanted to do was make it disappear!

the next day was different. My husband finally grasped what had happened, and it was NOT good!

He found Marriage Builders, and that, I think, is what has helped us so much!

Even with all that I know I still feel guilt and shame some days more than others - but it's always there. I still see the hurt in his eyes, and that is very hard to deal with when I know that I am the cause of it.

We are now 6 months into recovery and have come a long way - but we are coming up on the day that I chose to destroy our lives. My fear is that he won't be able to handle it, and say "FU! I'm done!" My heart does not want to believe this - but I know he has the choice. That day will definitely be hard for both of us. But, I will hold his hand and be strong for him.

I am very thankful for such a wonderful husband. He could hav left, but he chose to stay and work through it - know it would be hard. He has asked to leave - which is weird because I'm the one who messed up. Why would he ask?

I know I don't deserve this amazing man - but since he has chose to stay I will take him and hold on tight! This is my last chance, and I'm not going to take it for granted. He will know EVERY DAY how much I love and cherish him!

Our life in recovery is still early, and there is still a long way to go - but hand-in-hand I know that we will survive!


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

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Originally Posted by wulffpack_girl
I think that b/c my H almost immediately threw himself into overdrive meeting my ENs, I didn't have much, if any, withdrawal. As soon as he started meeting my needs, BAM he was making deposits into my LB$. I didn't have a void created by the loss of the OM. H was, in fact, much more adept at meeting my needs than the OM, AND H could meet all ten of them - OM could not. I very quickly reached the romantic love threshold w/H. I know that sounds very atypical for a WW who has fallen out of love w/her H and believes she is "in lurrrve" with her A partner.
I am jealous. I have thrown everything into our M to meet all ten EN's but she misses OM fantasy.
Maybe because he just seemed to meet one EN better than me, Conv.
Or maybe becase she is so depressed sh wants out and will cling to the fantasy like a drug.


Me: 43
ExWW: 44
Married 16yrs. 4 children

EA (ExWW): May-Nov 2009 + Aug-Dec 2010
D-DAY JAN 30, 2011
Exposure: FEB 7, 2011
Contact Again: Apr 25, 2011
Divorce Final Sept 2012

"I want to be married and stay married. Now I uunderstand the kind of marriage I want and we all deserve. But I also know it takes two to want to Build that Marriage."
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HHH - thank you for sharing what your W wrote. I teared up reading it because it hits so close to home. But I have to say, she is a stronger woman than I, and you know why? Because even though she trickled-truthed you, she was the one to woman up and tell you on her own. My H had to drag it out of me. And that hurt him even worse.

Stretch, I'm sorry your WW is still hanging on to the fantasy. You know, the POSOM in my sitch was able to meet my need for conversation, and that was his foot in the door. H and I hardly ever had conversations, and we definitely don't now, but he tried during the first 4 months of R. And I know that I was not honest with my H, but during the A, I wasn't honest with the OM either. So conversation was occurring, but even though the chats became intimate in nature, they were dishonest. I don't know why some WS's can't get out of the fog. I hope that your WW wakes up soon, stretch - and I really hope it for her sake...yours too, but see, I think you are gonna be OK, regardless. She may very well finally wake up a few years down the road and see that you have moved on, while she is dismayed at how her life could have gone so wrong, and realizing she has no one to blame but herself.

I was thinking today, there aren't so many FWW's posting around here who are in completely recovered M's...Mrs W and Mrs V, tawanda/luri...I wonder why that is?

**edited to add - And stretch, don't be jealous of my H being able to refill my LB$...yes, my H was able to make copious deposits very quickly in my LB$, but...I was going through a real spate of jealousy over some of the other recovering m's on here involving BH/WW's, to the point I could not read posts without breaking down in tears. I wished that I could have that kind of forgiveness that I saw, you know? And I wondered if maybe I didn't deserve it, that I'm worse than some other WW's...that this one "just" had an EA but I couldn't stop there, oh no, *I* had to go and play a cheap wh*re to some scuzzbucket...BUT some wiser heads set me straight on that. Every recovering marriage is a completely individual thing...I mean, we can all follow the same recipe for success (MB), but no two marriages, or H's, or W's, are the same.

Last edited by wulffpack_girl; 05/02/11 09:09 PM.

FWW

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Well, she was at least strong enough to tell me no;

...every time I asked to leave.

... every time I asked for a divorce.

She is strong enough to stick it out, even though my LB$ is low and hemorrhaging, and I've stated I'll give recovery another 2 years.

I'm no angel. No superhero. I'm just trying to give it my best shot - some days it looks good, some days not.

Let's toast to the good days...


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Very good read WPG


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Originally Posted by wulffpack_girl
HHH - thank you for sharing what your W wrote. I teared up reading it because it hits so close to home. But I have to say, she is a stronger woman than I, and you know why? Because even though she trickled-truthed you, she was the one to woman up and tell you on her own. My H had to drag it out of me. And that hurt him even worse.

WPG,

Wanted to give you a little note here.

She didn't come to me. Over the months between the original D-Day, I worked to wear her down. She mentions it.

I DRILLED her. I can remember a lot of it.

One day I told her that if she hadn't slept with him, that I knew she wanted to. I also told her that if she hadn't already, that if I would have left, she would have. I drilled her as to if she had made plans to arrange to sleep with him.

Denial, denial, denial.

The text she refers to as the one that "broke the dam," so to speak didn't just say that I wanted all of her.


It said that I wanted all of her, and that included honesty and faithfulness. Fidelity.

The only thing she gave me voluntarily was ILYBINILWY fogbabble, and it took her being drunk to do that.

Now, taking that all away, she is still an FWW that other FWW/WW's could look up to, because she flat-out refuses to shrink from me.


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Originally Posted by HoldHerHand
She didn't come to me. Over the months between the original D-Day, I worked to wear her down. She mentions it.

I DRILLED her. I can remember a lot of it.

H did that too. I remember when I finally told him I'd slept with the POS. He was in my face as soon as I walked in the door, "Tell me. Tell me. TELL me." He said he had already talked to the POS and he'd told him everything. I went down on my knees on the floor in front of him. He told me later that he knew for sure that I'd slept with the POS when I did that. He drilled later on dates, places, asking me why I called at such-and-such time and talked for x # of minutes, what did we talk about, why did the cell phone bill say I was in one place while I claimed to be somewhere else. How could I remember something so clearly from my childhood and not know what the POS and I talked about on the phone on x date, since he obviously meant so much to me?

Ah, God...WS's are the scum of the earth. I know that who I was or what I did doesn't define who I am now, but that doesn't make life any easier. I hated who I was. I still struggle with an overall sense of failure and worthlessness, and I feel like I am worthless in my H's eyes. Part of why I started this thread is that it frustrates me to no end when I read the posts of the BH's on here fighting so hard for their M's while their WW's walk around in the throes of rectocrainial inversion, and I read the words of those BH's and I want to physically shake every last one of those women. Their husbands are fighting for them and they are too fogged to see it! They are going to end up exactly like me if they don't wake the h377 up and get out of the fog. I feel powerless...I couldn't save my own M and so I want to at least try to save someone else's.

Originally Posted by HoldHerHand
The text she refers to as the one that "broke the dam," so to speak didn't just say that I wanted all of her.

It said that I wanted all of her, and that included honesty and faithfulness. Fidelity.

And that is the core of it. That is what we promised our husbands, and we failed to keep our promise. Whatever else I can try to give him now, whatever else I have given him in the past, I've tainted all of it for breaking my vow to him.

Originally Posted by HoldHerHand
Now, taking that all away, she is still an FWW that other FWW/WW's could look up to, because she flat-out refuses to shrink from me.


I've always said I had a good feeling about your and your FWW. And I still do. I firmly believe you two will be a MB success story.


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WPG,

Fwiw I certainly appreciate your help. And btw, my wife's fog is cracking and crumbling.


Me: 43
ExWW: 44
Married 16yrs. 4 children

EA (ExWW): May-Nov 2009 + Aug-Dec 2010
D-DAY JAN 30, 2011
Exposure: FEB 7, 2011
Contact Again: Apr 25, 2011
Divorce Final Sept 2012

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Originally Posted by stretch123
btw, my wife's fog is cracking and crumbling.


hurray

I know, been following your thread! Saw where she put her ring back on again - that is awesome! Stay strong!



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It's been one year since I've posted anything on these boards, but after lurking on this thread, I thought I'd offer my perspective as a FWW. I had an A with a much younger co-worker, and, like WPG, it was mostly the conversation I craved. And the attention was nice as well. I despised my behavior and still do. When my H found out, I tried to break contact with the OM, but it was difficult because we continued to work together, and it was like an alcoholic working at a bar. I was addicted to the relationship and had difficulty breaking free. I sought help dealing with the situation on these boards, and I was extremely blessed to be offered a job with a different company about 6 months ago. That's when NC really began for me. OM texted me shortly after I started my new job, and H found out. H sent him a threatening email and I never heard from or contacted OM again.

For the past 5 months, H and I have been working on rebuilding our M. We have done amazingly well, and I feel like I'm getting my old life back. Unlike WPG, I suffered a lot of withdrawal at the beginning. Depression. Suicidal thoughts. But I leaned on God and He brought me through. I became active in my Church again and stronger in my faith.

So why am I lurking on these boards one year later? Because OM has contacted me again. A month ago, he sent me another text and I ignored it completely. But then he sent me another one about a month later. This time I was mad. He had the ability to throw me into a tailspin just by sending me a text every time he got drunk. Unfortunately, in my anger, I sent him an email from my work address telling him to not contact me again. I should have ignored it.

Long story short, we have exchanged a couple of emails. I admit, I was curious about him. But I don't want to go back to that dark place. It's amazing to me how someone can come so far and be thrown right back to square one in an instant. I have made it clear that I will not see him or resume our A. But, I know that in order to save the M, I will have to break off all contact.

For all you Former Waywards out there, listen to me. Don't look back. Ever. Just focus on going forward and never break no contact. Trust me--withdrawal, no matter how awful it is the first time--it's no better the second time around.

And for all of you who have walked in my shoes, I would appreciate your encouragement and words of wisdom yet again.

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I dug up springchicken's old thread and replied there so as not to clutter this one.


Me - 44
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I was reading Ace's Success Stories thread as I needed some positivity this morning, and this post speaks volumes:

Zoey's Story

Originally Posted by Zoey
So my point is. RECOVERY IS HARD. If you are a WS and you want to save your marriage. Please let go of any selfish thoughts and do whatever it takes to make it work. You cannot LB, you cannot be inconsistant, you MUST and I repeat MUST do things that you never thought you could do before. This is your marriage, your life partner, you betrayed them, YOU ruined the trust, its up to YOU to regain and rebuild the trust. Regardless how bad you think your BS is, they didn't cheat on you, they were in the same bad marriage but didn't cheat. Yes, they have things to work on and be accountable for too but YOU, WS, CHEATED. If you want your marriage to work. DROP your selfish ways, CHANGE, READ, COUNSELING, WORK ON YOU, VALIDATE YOUR BS's feelings. They are shattered beyond words. Don't think your words mean anything to them. They don't. Why should your BS believe you. The same things you told them, you told your OP..Instead...DO not SAY. ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS!!!! and while you are at it, drop the PRIDE crap too. Self pride can be destructive if used wrong. Its okay to have pride in yourself as a good person but when you have too much pride that you don't want to be belittled, that will hurt you. If your BS needs to scream at you sometimes, LET THEM, just don't let that become a habit. There will be a few times that they need to scream and cry. Let them. If you can, hug them, if they don't want you to touch them, you sit there and say NOTHING. You don't walk out...EVER. Frankly YOU should be trying to win back your spouse but Mb's plan does work. Find what works for your and do it. You are lucky to be back with your spouse. They could of thrown you out on your butt but didn't. That my fellow WS's is what FOR BETTER FOR WORSE stands for, thank your lucky stars your spouse took their vows to heart unlike we did for a moment in time when our brains left our bodies.


FWW

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needed that too, thanks Wpgirl.


Me 44- yes ugggh
WH 47
together 26 years M 19
serial cheater big time
DD1 2.24.11
NC letter sent 3/7/11
NC letter to OW2 april
final truths 5/8-- all of them poly confirmed 5/18
working the plan

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Thanks WPG...I needed that as well ....


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Separated Sept 2011
OW discovery Oct 2011
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Hey WPG you posted this over in Teacher's thread:

- Anytime I try to educate H, lecture him, give unsolicited advice, make �You should/We should� statements, �Why don�t you� statements (e.g., �Why don�t you want to give this a try?�) or �Don�t you know� statements...that I need to realize that basically what I am saying to him is, �Hey, stupid!�

I find myself doing this and I know it is a way to control the other person. I did this repeatedly with my WH when I was trying to talk sense into him about his affair and not abandoning my four kids and I for her. What do you suggest as the alternative?

What I am finding most in my recovery is my inability to control the other party. Now that I am in Plan B, I can see how my WH and I used manipulation tactics in our marriage to get the other person to do what we wanted.

This clearly failed me miserably, and I recognize it as a horrible way to make a marriage last.

I can see how the POJA can solve this issue, but how does one who is still in Plan B waiting for WH to wake up work on themselves to fully eradicate that type of controlling behavior if POJA isn't available?

Something along the same line are boundaries. I know my boundaries with my WH are firm, and of course before Plan B he felt they were put in place to control him. How does one go about recognizing the difference between setting boundaries versus having those boundaries in order to receive a particular outcome? Isn't that ultimately control?

When does one POJA boundaries versus having those boundaries at EP's? I can see down the road in my recovery becoming so ridgid in my boundaries that I may end up scarying off my WH and/or any other potential mate if D actually happens.

Thanks!!


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Great question! I'll tell you what Jennifer said to me during our sessions, IITL:

She advised me to begin my statements with something along the lines of "I'd love it if..." (a la POJA) or "I really need..." followed by some positive, specific behavior. For example:

"I�d love it if we could come up with something else to do this weekend."
"I�d love it if every Saturday we went through the budget together."

Part of this, JC advised, was not speaking in a harsh tone of voice, and using a term of endearment could help "soften" your request.

She also gave me a 6-point diagnostic to follow to help me determine why I was unhappy about something, and said it would help me to come up w/my "I'd love it if..." statements.

1. Care
2. Protection
3. Time
4. Honesty
5. POJA
6. Exclusive Need Meeting

In other words, was I unhappy because of a lack of UA time (#3) or because a decision was made w/o POJA (#5)?

OK - I had to get that down fast 'cause my notes from JC are on the cpu at work! I've got to go get the kiddos from school, but will add more later!


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Hi WPG - My HNHN and Recovery thread was moved to SAA, so I moved the above questions to my HNHN & Recovery Thread if you want to add some more there or here. I wasn't sure where to post those questions. Do you mind if I copy your response over there also?

Thanks Tough!!!

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OK - I'm back! I wanted to add that I really don't have much experience using this. During recovery, I was very tentative about asking for anything to meet my needs. Still am, really. For example, there's been a death in my extended family and I need to go to the visitation tonight and wanted to go to the funeral tomorrow. I didn't really want to take the kids. The kids are staying w/me this weekend since they had b-day parties to attend. Anyway, I planned to ask H last night if he minded helping with the girls, but I backed down. He'd been here at the house all day and did some carpentry work, is working nights this week and hadn't slept. He wasn't rude or anything, but I just felt like I shouldn't ask him for any more favors, since he'd been doing so much this week. So I wishy-washily talked about the weekend and juggling the girls, thinking that if he knew I was in a bind and was OK coming over and watching the girls, he'd say so. And I realize that what I did was wrong, wrong, wrong! If I needed his help I should just ask. I just feel guilty asking for anything and I'm so afraid to push my luck...but conversely, I know I am not being honest with him and if I don't tell him what I need and give him the opportunity to choose to meet that need or not, that I end up resenting it - and that was a problem in our pre-A M, that I expected him to know what my needs were.

In a nutshell, I'm great at knowing what MB tells me I need to do, not so great at putting it into practice! I'm still learning and know I have a long way to go yet.

And I see where you are coming from with the control issue. It took a long time for it to sink in for me that I cannot control my H's actions. I tried to manipulate recovery by lying, and then later I struggled with him not meeting expectations I had for his behavior. I wanted him to do Y when I did X...when in truth I cannot/should not/must not have expectations of his behavior at all. I cannot control him. Nothing I do or say or do not do/say is going to bring him home. Separation is his choice, and unlike in your sitch, IITL, my H is the BS and he has every right to leave me.

Boundaries - I don't believe boundaries can be POJA'ed. If I understand what you are saying, you're referring to the EPs that you would need your WH to put into place to help you feel safe.

Quote
And then he should put extraordinary precautions in place to guarantee that another affair will not take it's place. Has he considered the circumstances that led to his affair? Intoxication, business trips that separate you overnight, close friendships with those of the opposite sex, recreational relationships that do not include you, and so forth, should be subject to scrutiny. What was it that made him vulnerable? Whatever it was, he should take extraordinary precautions to avoid it in the future. It's part of just compensation for the suffering he's caused you to bear.
Here

EP's are forever. They are what you, as a BW, need to feel safe, and what we, as WS's, need to put into place. They are not POJA'ed.

But if we suppose that your WH never pulls his head out of his [censored], and someday you are looking for another relationship - then I see these becoming boundary issues. You would not have EP's with a new, potential partner - yet you would still want to see them demonstrate appropriate boundaries with the opposite sex, because you will need to feel safe with them.

Dunno if any of that made sense. I keep meaning to read a book I've seen mentioned previously on this forum on boundaries by Cloud & Townsend. Maybe that book would also be helpful for you, IITL?


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Originally Posted by itistoughlove
Hi WPG - My HNHN and Recovery thread was moved to SAA, so I moved the above questions to my HNHN & Recovery Thread if you want to add some more there or here. I wasn't sure where to post those questions. Do you mind if I copy your response over there also?

Thanks Tough!!!


Oh sure - feel free! We were posting at the same time! (I'm a reeeeallly sloooooow poster!)


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Hi WPG...I have followed your thread throughout and have been one of many who have been praying for your M. I am sorry that it is still difficult for you, but I still think there is hope that your H will come around...after all, you did!

I know it has been difficult for you as a FWW but I must say that many of us on these Boards (SAA) could only want a remorseful spouse that has humbled themselves to see their shortcomings and want to fully commit to restoring their M. For that, I applaud you and all of the other FWS for recognizing how important it is in keeping the family whole. Moreover, I'm happy to see that you want to help others, irrespective of your current situation.

I would like to ask you something but do not feel comfortable posting it on the forum. Would you be receptive if I sent you a private post through the mods or another avenue? I've read something on the forum where you can communicate like this, although it is an anomaly. I certainly understand why this is a concern and why the PM option has been disabled.

Thank you and the others for your insights in helping us understand our sitch and what we can do to save our marriages.

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Looking at Zoey's story...
Thinking about EP's forever...

What I am finding so hard is that my WW isn't ALL-IN on the recovery. She still believes she wants out. While the WW fog cracks slowly, slowly... she continues to have pride, walk out when the going gets tough, try to make me the enemy, carry defensive justifications for her actions...

I guess, it just feels like she is sabotaging this M. Adamant to hold onto what she believed during the A... ie. that the M is destined to fail.

When you have a WS that doesn't want back in... all those recovery rules and EP's and NC just are hard for them to apply.

If you follow my thread you know that my WW is only half back in.... she's in limbo. I think she can't stand herself if she has to be totally wrong for the A and admit all that wrong. And release me as the blame object for her depression.

If we make a joint decision to say we are on Recovery... then I believe all those things need to be in place. (EP...etc) Otherwise, we'll just keep on Plan A until either Plan R or Plan B.


Me: 43
ExWW: 44
Married 16yrs. 4 children

EA (ExWW): May-Nov 2009 + Aug-Dec 2010
D-DAY JAN 30, 2011
Exposure: FEB 7, 2011
Contact Again: Apr 25, 2011
Divorce Final Sept 2012

"I want to be married and stay married. Now I uunderstand the kind of marriage I want and we all deserve. But I also know it takes two to want to Build that Marriage."
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Thanks for your support, WDW!

I'm sorry that I'm not familiar with your sitch. I'd love to help you but don't know that I'm comfortable with exchanging emails. I had a development in my own sitch back in January and I was uncomfortable posting on the forum and had inquired if anyone was willing to discuss via email. SugarCane had posted to me and advised that she didn't think it was wise to give and get advice off the forum - that one of the best things about the forums is that all users can see the advice given, and if that advice is not sound then it can be challenged so that you can feel confident you're taking a sound, MB-approved course of action. Heck, Dr. H himself has weighed in on my thread in Recovery! I'm totally not an MD adept or anything so I'd certainly hate to give you advice that could be inconsistent with the principles of MB!

stretch, I'm sorry your WW is still so fogged. She has to lay down that pride. Pride was part of my (many) problems when I went wayward. You can be proud of people, things, accomplishments, but the kind of pride a WS has is that narcissistic pride...the kind that's cocky, that says "I am hot sh*t."

Heh. Sleeping with a man (and I use the term loosely) that was not my H is not exactly something to be proud of now...nor was it then.

I don't know what's going to be her wake-up call, stretch. I hope she gets it before you go Plan B. From what I've read, you are doing an awesome Plan A.


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Wulffpack girl you are very hard on yourself. I'm wondering would you be able to forgive and extend respect to another person in your situation? I fully believe that all of us , in one way or another, do the wrong thing and take the wrong path often in ways that are not observable to onlookers. If you could find forgivness and give respect to another person why not yourself? By not giving yourself some measure of forgivness you in effect, or puting yourself above other people. Why hold yourself to a standard you might not apply to others. Do you think you are more accountable, more perfect , therefore all the worst for your failure? Its obvious that you are punishing yourself to the extent that it interfers with what ever healing you might achieve if you could accept that you are like all of us. People who come short in so many ways. I read your story and hurt for both you and your husband.

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never, thank you for your post - I have some thoughts and I'm going to address them on my thread, I hope that's OK!


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I've already posted one song off my playlist this morning, and wanted to post another.

This is a song for you WW's. You're pining over the OM. You believe his lies, or tell yourself that you do. You're giving him what he wants so that you will feel accepted, loved, and wanted - but the way the OM makes you feel is a lie. You will not be loved for giving the OM what he wants.

And it's for you FWW's, trying to recover your M. You, like me, most likely don't do everything right. You struggle with feelings of failure and worthlessness. Perhaps you realize that the material things in life are meaningless, and that you'd trade "everything for happy ever after."

And I'm posting it also for me, because some days I feel like a distaster. Some days I feel like I'm not good enough, that I never was...I've lost myself, and I need my DH - my one, special person, my happy ever after - to come and take me home. If you ever read this, broken, I still love you.



Jon McLaughlin - "Beautiful Disaster"

she loves her momma's lemonade
hates the sounds that goodbyes make
she prays one day she'll find someone to need her
she swears there's no difference between the lies and compliments
it's all the same if everybody leaves her

and all the magazines tells her she's not good enough
the pictures that she sees makes her cry

she would change everything, everything, just ask her
caught in the in between of beautiful disaster
she just needs someone to take her home

she's giving boys what they want
trying to act so nonchalant
afraid to see that she's lost her direction
she never stays the same for long
assuming that she'll get it wrong
perfect only in her imperfection

she's not a drama queen
she doesn't wanna feel this way
only 17 and tired, yeah

she would change everything for happy ever after
caught in the in between of beautiful disaster
she just needs someone to take her home

she's just the way she is
but no one's told her that's okay

she would change everything, everything, just ask her
caught in the in between of beautiful disaster

she would change everything for happy ever after
caught in the in between of beautiful disaster
she just needs someone to take her home
she just needs someone to take her home


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Amazing thread! Really hits home when you realize the damage we've done.

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